M remains 2nd in latest Spring standings for Director's Cup
Title says it all. Only sports left to include are Softball, Baseball, and M&W Track & Field. A few schools below us had very strong Springs so far, so they've caught up a bit, notably Virginia and USC. I think we should finish solidly in 2nd place, which would be our best showing since 2003-04.
https://nacda.com/documents/2019/6/5//June6DIoverall.pdf?id=3659
Since someone always asks, Stanford has won this thing - often by massive margins - every single year except its first (1993-94).
As of now:
- Stanford
- Michigan
- Virginia
- Texas
- USC
- Penn State
- Duke
- Ohio State
- Florida
- North Carolina
MSU is 42.
Pretty impressive from the Big Ten.
Some interesting observations:
-Stanford's lowest season (541.0 in Fall) is better than our best season (532.25 in Winter), or any other team's best season.
-Stanford's lowest season is also better than all but the top 34 teams TOTAL points for the year (#35 Baylor total at 523.0).
Yeah, it's disgusting.
Essentially the Stanford Cup
2nd place means we won right?
#42 ‐ spartans will....not succeed!
Looks like in the Div. III version Duncan Robinson's (and my) Williams College is set to win again. They've been just slightly less dominant than Stanford in DI -- they've failed to win it twice.
Nice showing.
I sort of hate how the system is set up that basically Stanford always wins. It ignores a couple of sports (like football and men's hockey) while including ones like Fencing, various flavors of volleyball, and a couple of other sports that, frankly, favor your southern and west-coast teams either due to geography or the number of teams that compete in it. None of this matters in the end because it's all sort of a meaningless competition, but when a school has never lost in the lifetime of any current athlete, maybe it's time to reevaluate how you measure overall athletic accomplishment.
From what I can see, they do include football and hockey.
I stand corrected. When I looked at the final tally for the winter I only saw women's hockey.
I still think that equalizing, say, the value of a 5th-place finish in water polo to a 5th-place finish in men's basketball skews these numbers quite a bit.
Yeah, the PDFs never show all the sports, just the most recent.
We need to get this damn lacrosse team to get it together and make a deep run in the NCAAs! (not the women though - they were great this year).
So basically finishing second is winning the non-Stanford division.
The sports used for scoring are like 95% warm weather sports.
From their site:
all sports in which the NCAA or NAIA offers a championship, along with Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS, formerly I-A) football
Sports Included
- Division I: Count 19 sports with the following breakdowns (decreased by 1, 19.1 avg.)
- Four of which must be Baseball and Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Women's Volleyball
- The next highest 15 (max.) sports scored for each institution, regardless of gender, will be used in the standings
So it appears that it covers all sports with a championship (plus FBS), and each school gets a maximum of 19 sports.
And, unless they've changed the rules in the last few years, each school can only score one men's track season and one women's track season (indoor or outdoor, not both).
The OP links to the latest Spring report which only breaks out the Spring sports that have completed their championships.
The Fall results are here: https://nacda.com/documents/2019/1/9//JAN10Overall.pdf?id=3486 and the Winter results here: https://nacda.com/documents/2019/4/23//April25DIOverall.pdf?id=3592
There will be one more update on 6/12 (with Softball and Men's and Women's Track and Field) before the final results (with Baseball) on 6/27 or 6/28.
Shout out to the women's rowing program.
3rd place at NCAAs which is their best finish since 2001. Finally took down OSU too.
The V8 led for 1750m (over a 2k) but just lost out by 1.5 seconds.
Also, screw holding that race at Indy. It's called Windy Indy for a reason and has crap water.
Where is the course in Indy-the Eagle Creek Reservoir?
Yup. North side of the bridge, rowing north to south. It's barely 2000km long so the second you cross the finish line and hear the horn your have to hold water so you don't drift into a shallow area that risks ripping off your skeg.
I rowed there 4 times in college (1 time in the spring, 3 times in the fall). The fall race is a 5k and goes south to north, through the bridge and generally isn't bad because 5ks on the whole are generally crap anyways.
Spring races there suck because of the wind and chop the closer you get to the finish line. We were supposed to race there 2 more times but the week before both races a tornado and high winds ripped out the buoyed course. Plus the banks get waterlogged if it rains too much.
Was actually just thinking about this the other day. Figured Michigan would be able to stay in second place as they have had a pretty strong spring so far. Staee took a big tumble from 30 to 42. They finished in 50 last year and will probably be pretty close to that spot when the final standings are released.
I always forget just how bad they are at most sports. Like, they'll randomly be good at cross country or women's basketball for a while, but for all the crap people give Maryland and Rutgers for joining the conference, Maryland tends to field reasonably competitive teams across the spectrum. Rutgers is still garbage, but Purdue and MSU aren't particularly "good" at most other sports.
Good point. Actually I am surprised Staee is not lower than 42 right now. They went to the final four in men’s basketball and men’s soccer and made the NCAA Tournament in women’s basketball. Other than that they have been pretty terrible. They didn’t even qualify for the Big Ten tournament in softball or baseball. Why people acted like Hollis was a great athletic director is beyond me. Besides making sure football and basketball players were never prosecuted he didn’t seem to do much else.
Having grew up in EL (a few years ahead of Hollis' kids - though that's besides the point) I was always confused by how people perceived him.
Hollis took over in 2008. Izzo and Dantonio were already there. He didn't have to hire the 2 biggest coaching positions in his entire tenure. I guess some people give him credit for holding onto those guys, but what other options have those 2 coaches had? Izzo flirted with the NBA a few times, but to my recollection MSU didn't make impressive moves to keep him. Izzo usually stuck around because of comfort with EL and the program was his to run unabated by the administration. Similarly, Dantonio's name has never really came up for other HC jobs outside of maybe SCAR because it's his Alma mater. Again, what did Hollis do to keep him? I don't recall anything special.
Hockey wise they held onto Comley way too long. They got hot in '07 to win the Frozen Four but otherwise they were barley over .500 as a program under him post '07. Then Hollis hired Anastos, who was pathetic.
Like you said, MSU fields decent cross country teams, sometimes soccer, but no more consistently high achieving than their competitors in those sports. Of the Big Ten nationally competitive sports (football, basketball, hockey, wrestling, volleyball, rowing, swimming, and maybe gymnastics) MSU is really only competitive in about 2 at a time. Basketball and then a rotating block of football and volleyball.
But yeah, ignore the whole team doctor sexually assaulting dozens of athletes under his watch. The "how was he supposed to know?!" crowd really ticked me off.
MSU's 2007 title was insane to watch in person. It was this remarkably untalented team that had a goalie give up about a goal a game for the last month of the season and won a ton of games by a single goal. Like you said, they got hot and it maybe submarined their program for a decade afterwards because it allowed Hollis to not move on from Comley when it was clear he wasn't working.
Hollis got a ton of positive press for basically doing the same stuff Brandon did; crassly commercialize every aspect of his teams. So it's MSU playing on an aircraft carrier in camo uniforms, or the football team getting sponsored by the largest Roman candle fireworks distributor in the country. He was also involved with the many decisions the NCAA committees made to, again, exploit every possible financial avenue. His teams just won more games and he maintained a veneer of civility that Brandon couldn't. He also seemed to not care one iota about holding players accountable or protecting anyone who wasn't a male athlete on a revenue sport from abuse.
It'll be interesting to see how that AD looks once Izzo and Dantonio leave. He'll have to make two really good hires to keep them even at the level they are, and it's unlikely there are candidates like those two out there (or at MSU would be able to land them and set them up with the same resources to be successful in a post-Nassar world).
A friend of mine in HS had season hockey tickets through his father (who didn't go to many games) so we would take the tickets he didn't want, drive onto campus, and go to games. I was still in HS (or on college break) so I might not have the greatest hockey eye looking back on it, but MSU just wasn't very good. They rode a hot goalie and then... kind of just putzed around following that season. They still recruited decently well and played Michigan tough (like send guys to the hospital because of cheap shots tough - Conboy and Tropp) but they were always in the middle of the CCHA without much direction. They maybe got hot again late in the year and went on a mini-run, but they were never the wire to wire favorite. Then, when Hollis got a chance to make a hire for a program that MSU kind of gave a thought about, he whiffed.
A lot of people (MSU fans), during the Howard coaching process, made fun of Michigan for being unable to grab a big name coach. Whether Michigan wasn't capable of doing so or because of the timing of Beilein's departure, the point was "lol Michigan had to hire an assistant NBA coach just because he went to UofM." My thought is, who the hell is MSU going to hire? Unless Izzo has someone lined up to succeed him down the line, MSU isn't an incredibly attractive job compared to Michigan. Compared to PSU or something? Sure. They're leaps ahead of those schools, but not quite as far ahead as the rest of the top of the Big Ten.
The facilities aren't any better. The recruiting grounds are decent but not great. They have better, prolonged recent history, but MSU isn't a basketball destination like Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, or even Indiana are. If they time it right they might have a better shot at guys like Oats or Beard (not them necessarily, but guys at decent programs who are coming off a run) but otherwise they don't have a deep well of former players to draw from either. It's like Gary Patterson at TCU. Why would you go there other than to play for him? Without him, what's TCU got that other schools don't have?
Similarly for football, MSU isn't a destination job. MSU is the 4th program in the East (maybe 5th or 6th in the Big Ten on the whole) when it comes to THE place to go. No matter what, they are behind OSU, Michigan, and PSU when it comes to a "destination job." They'll need to grab someone from the G5 and hope it hits like Dantonio did (the Big East was basically G5). They might be able to grab a lower P5 guy who just needs to get a better shot to excel (maybe like a Matt Campbell), but they won't be able to grab someone out of the NFL (unless they leave the NFL for a bad reason) and if they're in the market at the same time as other top 25 programs, they'll most likely be behind a lot of them. Southern schools will get better candidates because of recruiting and competition. Same with a lot of PAC 12 and ACC schools (that aren't Wake Forest or Georgia Tech).
The new AD can continue Hollis' aversion to caring about the non-revenue producing sports. MSU fans and stakeholders aren't going to get on him for letting the rowing coach continue to suck the life out of the program, or the gymnastics coach (so long as they don't defend a serial sexual abuser again) continuing to prompt the question, "Wait, MSU has a gymnastics program?" If he can't get the football and basketball hires right (which could come very quickly one after another) then he'll be out on his rear end.
Hollis rode the coattails of Izzo, Dantonio, RichRod and gimmick basketball venues (ie. aircraft carriers). He was highly overrated.
Obligatory: FUCK STANFORD
You forgot the caveat: But not if the kids get accepted. Then, they're totally enrolling.
FUCK STANFORD UNLESS THEY OFFER MY OFFSPRING A QUALITY EDUCATION FOR FREE AND PROMISE NOT TO ADMIT ANY KIDS THAT GOT IN VIA ILLICIT MEANS
Michigan will get points in all the remaining sports..(Assuming Our distance runner finishes in top 8 in W track) Softball finishes T17th..baseball will be no less than Tfor 9th if they dont make the CWS..Mens Track will score some points so holding 2nd should be good
F Stanford