Let it be known that msu winning is truly great for our program.
Michigan will have success for years to come because the B10 is better off now that msu is in the final four.
Michigan's ability to get the best instate recruits on the up sell that our program is getting better while msu goes to the Final Four, can only improve.
All your friends from msu will congratulate you on how msu winning will lead to great things for Michigan basketball.
Yep. Truly great day for Michigan basketball.
leads to betterment. We should be glad to have such a successful rival. It will force us to be that much better.
Incidentally, if we want recruits and prestige, then maybe we should perform better ourselves, rather than relying on the failure of others to make us look better.
You typically win with better talent. That is, if you want to win more than once every 5 or 6 times; kind of sounds similar to our dominance of msu from '02 to '07. Coach B is a great coach, but how many times would we beat Duke if we played a Duke caliber team 5 or 6 times?
And please, spare me the platitudes about better competition. All I know is that one, maybe two recruits, are now headed to el, when they were at least considering Michigan before. There's a concrete example for you that would lend credence to this being zero sum. Let me know when you have a counter example.
So, who is going to MSU but WAS considering UM before?? I haven't heard any announcements.
I believe he is referring to Byrd and Appling.
March 29th, 2009 at 11:41 PM ^
we provided better opportunities, then they would have been more likely to head to Ann Arbor. My position is that there is no honor in succeeding because of the weakness of one's opponent instead of achieving success by one's own merit.
Sparty is going to out-recruit us and beat us, consistently, regardless of their tournament success. We aren't going to get stud recruits until we start winning ourselves. This is reality. Deal with it.
Although there is some short-term damage caused by their success in terms of recruiting, the overall benefits of increased prestige and respect for the conference will probably offset them in the long term.
As jamiemac pointed out, the more respected the Big Ten is, the better our chances are of getting to the tournament. This provides us opportunities to succeed in the tournament ourselves, instead of relying on the failure of our rivals to make us look more palatable to recruits.
Honestly, what would you prefer? The opportunity for Michigan to assert itself positively as a place stud recruits actually want to attend? Or for Michigan to be seen as only the slightly lesser of two mediocre in-state options?
March 30th, 2009 at 12:02 AM ^
While that may be true, I still cheer against msu for the reasons I've stated, and generally don't acknowledge their accomplishments.
and again, I believe think your calculation of long term conference prestige is overblown, and the recruiting damage is underrated. That's just my take.
Primarily because it's hard to calculate intangible damage.
March 30th, 2009 at 11:44 AM ^
We also get the opportunity to beat a Final Four (or better) team next year. These things sort of cascade... trickle-down effect. Anyway, I look forward to handing out beatings to Ol' Laser-Eyes and the Spartines in the not-so-distant future.
http://mgoblog.com/content/anyone-else-smell-something-fraudaulent-abou…
You should probably get a new name. The only thing fraudulent here is your posting.
I have no issue with being wrong. I have issue with the gross misconception of how my opinion (msu going much farther than I anticipated) being wrong helps Michigan.
i wasn't aware i said that. i should probably go find where i said that and retract it then
but then you refuse to acknowledge it; I've come clean about being wrong.
I never said anywhere that State winning was a good thing. Just because other posters say that to you doesn't mean anybody arguing against you believes what they said. Thinking State is a great team and wanting to see State win are NOT mutually exclusive.
That being said, you responded to what I wanted to call you out for, and you redeem your credibility as such.
P.S. I was joking about you getting a new name. I hope you realized this.
On national television, and I believe Brian linked to it. So Beilein is an idiot and not a true Michigan fan by your reckoning?
i'm not so sure your response has anything to do with my post
Not the post I meant to respond to. Either that or you've edited heavily, as I've seen karpodeim doing in other threads.
yes, because editing sucks.
I meant every word I wrote in it and my point stands...your post is clearly supposed to have been directed at some other post.
I really did mean to respond to another post, which was above yours, but could not resist the little dig at karpo.
I think MSU winning is a great thing. I'm not going to hate on a team that plays for the same State. I love MSU and Michigan! I wish them both well. MSU played a great game and is going to Detroit to play U Conn! Hell yeah boys.
is impossible. you can't be a fan of Michigan and cheer for MSU.
Taking it on step further...I would call it mission impossible...
Was that in the manual or something?
didn't you get the *Maize & Blue* memo? I certainly received it growing up in Michigan,when my turn came...are you blue or green? Of course I picked the good guys...
How does one split their loyalty?
This sports, and not the Hatfields vs. McCoys, Jews vs. Muslims, etc. It isn't a matter of splitting loyalties, its a matter of not being consumed in irrational hatred, which I just don't get.
And how does one factor loyalty to the conference?
Finally, I have been meaning to ask for some time. Your avatar - are you a Shriner?
I'm all about fun. However,I will never support sparty. I tend to agree...irrational hate doesn't make sense when viewing the big picture.
Cheering for Michigan comes first. The Big X...case can be make for some...but sparty,tuos...forget it.
Different organization...freemason.
Don't you post or use to,over on the rival board?
I do root for all the Big Ten teams, never really had a problem with it. The OSU game is best when both teams are great. I confess though, my younger brother is a graduate of OSU.
My father-in-law is a freemason, that is how I recognized your avatar. I thought the Shriners were part/associated with them. I attended his 50th year member ceremony (I know that is not worded well), it was quite interesting. To me it is confusing, as he is also a member of the Scottish Rite and ROJ.
Never have posted on Rivals/Scout/MLive. Just here and a little over at WLA.
part of me wanted them to win just to take out a big east team. i mean, i really don't care if MSU wins. i might pull for them every once in a while. they're only my #3 most hated team. therefore, its possible
if you say anything good to say dealing with MSU, your not a real fan. BOOOOO the MSU lover
Is MSU just now a superior choice to us in-state? No - it's been happening for 15 years. The idea that this changes anything is silly.
hey, I actually tracked some of your posts out of curiosity. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've never made a post that could be remotely construed as being pro-Michigan?
Haven't already made your donation to RCMB and you're stuck posting here?
I graduated from Michigan in 2000 and sat in the Rose Bowl in 1997. I just don't see why we can't just say "Michigan State has a good basketball program", and move on, instead of crediting their success to externalities (refs, poor opposition, etc.).
I have friends and family member who went to MSU. I don't hate them.
You left out "M$Ucks"
I don't think that is the issue. Most people accept that they're a good program. The issue is whether or not it benefits us for them to be good. I don't think it does. The Big Ten as a whole? Yes, we want it to be good. But we don't need our primary rival, both on the court and in recruiting, to be making Final Fours when we're not.
For the record - I don't think it helps Michigan. I just think is tiring to read, after every single MSU win, this guy crediting it to externalities (refs, poor play from the opponent, etc.) rather than just simply staying silent. I don't expect him to sing the praises of MSU, but coming on here to come up with a reason for every victory that somehow absolves them of all credit is ridiculous.
Joe McCarthy?
no, but I generally like to converse with people who are optimistic about Michigan and am annoyed with people who like to make it clear to us just how successful our rival are
March 29th, 2009 at 11:15 PM ^
ad hominem
Nice job. You completely failed to address his point, which undermines your argument considerably.
People. MSU plays for the same STATE that U-M does. To have this evil hate towards another in state team is dumb. U-M will always be my favorite. But MSU is a great school and East Lansing is a great town. They play and compete just like U-M does. MSU has a great program as does Michigan. Both deserve respect. Now OSU I'm not a fan of. But I still have mutual respect for them.
March 29th, 2009 at 11:32 PM ^
What the fuck do you mean by "plays for the same STATE"?? Did you mean "in the same STATE"? Or is the NCAA like the Olympics or something where everyone in the state gets medals and so U of M and MSU are both teams that play for the "STATE" of Michigan?
March 30th, 2009 at 12:08 AM ^
I'm a Michigan fan, but would rather State win than teams ooc (Louisville, UConn, Villanova, etc.) I tend to agree that it is better for the B10 for State to win. I also think Coach B will do fine at recruiting, regardless of what MSU does, but the practice facility and Crisler have been clear detriments. This seems to be changing.
It seems to me that most of the rabid anti MSU guys are state of Michigan homers.
Also, I differentiate between MSU Bball and MSU football. It is much easier for me to root for their bball; I couldn't easily root for Dantonio and the football team. I like Izzo, and I thought MSU carried themselves well.
March 30th, 2009 at 12:35 PM ^
Really, how does it hurt us?
The only logical thing one can say is "recruiting." One year, one trip to the final four, will not hurt us that badly in the recruiting aspect. 15 years of success will help MSU. Enough of the obvious.
When you really look at the state of each of the programs and how it relates to recruiting, MSU needed this success badly. Michigan is clearly on the rise. Almost getting to the Sweet 16 after years of futility? That's a statement.
MSU getting to the Sweet Sixteen after years of, well, similar feats? That's the status quo. Michigan's own success will help us with in-state recruiting more than MSU's failure. They're program is well-established. One post-season would not have changed the mind of a recruit. However, Michigan's program had the potential to take a huge leap forward, and it did. That may change the mind of a potential recruit.
Seriously, I think that MSU needs to win it all to top Michigan's 1 round win. Why? Because where the programs are at. Michigan is on the rise. Michigan State was getting stale. Getting to the final four helps that alot. Winning it all puts them back into the "elite" talk. But if they don't win it all, I have to believe in-state recruits are more intrigued by what Michigan did this season than by what Michigan State did.
So, after all that, here's my opinion. I'm rooting for State. What's good for the Big 10 is good for the Big 10. And in a sport where a group of people sit in a room and select who does and doesn't make the post-season, it's pretty darn important to come from a good conference.