how to handle "Down in Front!"
Next time you're verbally assaulted with an angry "DOWN IN FRONT!" you are encouraged to retort in either of the following ways:
1. Don't turn around, just reply with "UP IN BACK!"
2. Do turn around, i.d. the aggressor, and remark "Wow, that grecian formula really does work."
September 19th, 2009 at 11:16 PM ^
Fewer $10,000+ donors.
September 19th, 2009 at 10:45 PM ^
I have stood for about 90% of the season so far. Sitting and doing the golf clap is complete rubbish. I hope all of the "Section 1" types out there move their lazy arses into the luxury boxes next year.
September 20th, 2009 at 5:28 AM ^
I actually have/had a legit "Down in Front" situation. The gentleman behind me is an older guy (alum and veteran) that needs to use a cane to stand and walk.
I'm one of those idiots that gets hyped yells and screams for a 3 yard gain and everything else.
I suggested he move down to my seats and I move up to his.
Doesn't help him on the "potential big play" situations, but at least he gets to see 70 percent of the game and not my backside
September 20th, 2009 at 9:08 AM ^
Very well done.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:24 AM ^
... that it is not okay to simply ignore the people behind you, that particular guy you mentioned, and say, "Up in back!"
In the end, your solution is to go up to Row 99; or to find someplace where they don't care if you stand the whole game.
Which is fine with me as I've said all along. I have no desire to tell people what to do if they aren't bothering anyone else.
The bottom line here is that people like you are blocking other paying customers' view of the game, when you stand with no need of your own to stand. Moreover, this thread has been about another level of that rudeness; when you are asked by someone whose view you are blocking, to please sit down. I gather that many of you will refuse to do so.
Look, if you were serious about this, instead of sitting around in your pajamas and tapping out blog entries, you'd propose "standing areas" to Bill Martin and Joe Parker. And you'd make a business case to them about how that would work and why it would be good for the Athletic Department. Again, I'd have no problem with that. None at all.
Just don't expect to get friendly treatment from poeple whose view of the game you are blocking.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:10 PM ^
When I'm at a game and everyone in front of me is standing the whole game whether they be Michigan fans, ND fans, (whoever it doesn't matter) and they are impeding my view as a fan I have 2 options:
1. Stand up and see the game
2. Sit down and not see dick
What option do you think I'm going to do? I'm not going to stand in front of people if no one else is standing but if the people in front of me are impeding me then I'm going to impede the people behind me and if you ask me to sit down I will say "tell the people in front of me to sit down and then I will".
My take is this if you see someone standing at the game who is older than you are you should probably be standing too. When I see a 60 year old men at the game standing the whole game and then I have a 40 year old woman yelling at me (who is 2 rows behind me) to tell me to sit down (when there are no young kids/incredibly old people directly behind me) or go sit in the student section that is a problem. A 60 year old man is directly standing in front of me and you single me out to yell at me to sit down? It's ridiculous.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:03 AM ^
nice to see this board polarizing into the "I bought my ticket so I'll stand for the whole game" assholes vs. the "I donated money so I'll feel free to lecture others" assholes.
It's about being a fan, but it's also about context.
I don't give a crap if you want to watch the game naked, STANDING, and blowing an air horn out your ass for every play. That's great, do it at home.
Do you ever actually notice the people around you at games you inconsiderate f#cks?
Some of them are older (perhaps hanging onto their seats a bit longer than they should) but quite a few of them are kids, many at their first game.
What do you think their memory of their first game at Michigan is going to be like:
1. everybody cheered and we won, or
2. that mean guy yelled at everyone and I couldn't see anything.
Dred Scott made a great point, consider your fellow fans; because like it or not, they ARE your fellow fans, and this isn't a contest to see who has the biggest penis because they yelled the loudest or stood the longest. That's the asshole contest, and it's held in Columbus annually.
If you've got shorter women, kids, or disabled people around you CONSIDER their game experience. Most great fans that I see help get those around them into the game by being
1. friendly
2. loud
3. friendly
4. funny
5. friendly
6. inclusive
oh, and did I mention friendly?
Fans who who stand with a "f#ck everyone else" attitude are LAZY fans and I don't want them.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
On the other side of the coin we have the "I'm a donor, and I know what's best crowd".
Look, we appreciate the cash buddy, but in case you're wondering why we're building the luxury boxes and the club seating; its so other LAZY fans like you that have given Michigan Stadium such a lousy rep can all be herded together and rousingly ignored by everybody else.
Your at a football game, a COLLEGE football game, outside with at least 100,000 other people who are really excited to see a football game today and maybe, just MAYBE have had something to drink. So hats off to you "Mr. Unrealistic Expectations" your fellow fans are loud, animated, and probably have the energy to stand and go apeshit for 3+ hours.
You kinda knew what you were getting into here, and you really can't get too down on people who are finally seeing the type of high powered games they've always imagined at Michigan Stadium.
You have two choices for the rest of the season:
1. liven the f#ck up, are you a fan or not. The more people yell and go nuts, the more our young team feels supported (and honestly, we also appreciate the $)
2. Reserve your glass-fronted prison upstairs, no one will stand in front of you, but you'll never truly feel part of the game again, and deep down you know that.
Can we all go back to wearing our maize and blue thongs in peace?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:38 AM ^
Sure. I'll sport my maize and blue thong. But I will stand up plenty so that you get a good look at it.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:57 AM ^
My original post on this was due to a jerk behind us yesterday: I was in section 10 ... most people were sitting for most of the game, but then most people stood for the key plays. All in all I thought it was pretty good for just about everyone there. There could've been more standing, but not for the whole game since there seemed to be a good number of older folks - blue hairs but not the monied kind that seem to piss of so many of us here - and I think it would be a burden on them to stand most of the game.
Anyway, there were a couple times when a few people stood - for just short periods - when most people were sitting, and then there was the jerk behind us who would loudly, and with anger!, scold these few people who were standing for just a short period. My thought was "dude, chill out, they're obviously not gonna stand the whole game, so big deal if these few fans are standing for a few extra minutes."
So my take overall is that as fans we should be helping the team on the field as much as we can - cheering with might and main as our song claims! The players obviously want more from us since they so often exhort us to get louder. I think we'd be more of a factor in the game if we stood and yelled more than we do, but I didn't mean to imply standing the whole game, since indeed there are quite a few older fans who probably can't do that, and also kids who would never see a play at all. We should be a factor in the game - the 12th man - but we should also try to be respectful of those around us. But man, that jerk behind me yesterday just p*ssed me off. He was the @sshole yesterday, not the handful of fans who stood a few times for a few minutes when most were sitting around them.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:26 PM ^
Anyone who thinks that the entire stadium should be standing for most of the game, and at least every big/important play, is also saying that young kids in attendance at the Stadium will not see most of the game, and none of the big/important plays.
Of course, we can just have a general policy of standing up small schoolchildren on the bleacher seats themselves. Surrounded, of course, by 24 year olds who just might have had a cold beverage or two before the game. That's a terrific policy. The University's self-insurance risk managers will love that one. So will the excess liability carriers. Bill Martin will be tickled by the idea.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:34 PM ^
I think it is unreasonable to expect people at a sporting event to siton the big/important plays. A sporting event isn't like watching a movie or going to the symphony.
September 21st, 2009 at 5:31 PM ^
That's not it. If I'm standing and you can't see stand up. If you don't stand up then that is an awful waste of money.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:33 PM ^
"The players obviously want more from us since they so often exhort us to get louder. I think we'd be more of a factor in the game if we stood and yelled more than we do, but I didn't mean to imply standing the whole game, since indeed there are quite a few older fans who probably can't do that, and also kids who would never see a play at all."
That's basically what I was trying to say, too. I got shot down and I was never trying to say that anyone should stand all game. Well said.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:55 PM ^
especially the part about friendly.
Same team people, same team.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:40 PM ^
I'm a lazy fan because I want to stand the entire fucking game? I would love for you to hang with me with during my next ultramarathon (yes, I am one of those nutcases who thinks it is fun to run 50+ miles at a time).
September 20th, 2009 at 11:40 AM ^
I wish to God you are the person behind me next game. In fact, I will ask the person behind me if you "are the wheaties guy" and if you say yes, I will stand through every tv timeout I can just so you piss me off, and I can punch you in your silver spoon fed mouth you ungrateful dick.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:55 AM ^
I, as a graduate, a Victors Club member and a long-time supporter of the Athletic Department am a "problem,";
and meanwhile, "jehstratus" represents the future of the program and the mainstream view of the Wolverine blogosphere?
Have I got that right?
September 20th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^
I, as a graduate, a Victors Club member and a long-time supporter of the Athletic Department am a "problem,"*sigh* Look, as long as you use those as justification for your "entitlement," then YES, you are a problem. There are plenty of alumni, Victors Club members, and supporters of the AD that DON'T feel they are "owed" anything. I think you're completely missing the point of donating. If you recall (and if you don't, please click the link and think it over for a bit), it's not something you do to get something in return. edit: I should also add that jehstratus here is not in the right either; you, I, and others know that's no way to handle things. He does not represent a majority view, nor could anyone.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^
Everybody loves tax benefits! That is the only thing that you should get by donating and maybe a smile on your face knowing that you are helping to fund some of the under-funded sports at the University of Michigan.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:05 PM ^
I haven't asked for anything from you guys, other than to let me see most of the game without having to stand up to see over or around you.
The only other thing that I asked for, was the respect and courtesy for people behind you who can't see if you are standing.
That's it.
I didn't demand that the sutdents sit down. I didn't even demand that any of you sit down, neccessarily, outside of the student section. If you guys can find places in the stadium to stand and yell, I actually think that's great.
My one basic premise in this thread was that your saying "Up in back!" to people who request "Down in front!" was wrong. Is that what you mean by "entitlement"?
September 20th, 2009 at 1:07 PM ^
and I quote:
"If you really want to do something for the team, start by getting off your butt and donating $10,000 to the athletic department."
Which combined with what you've said in other threads means:
"I give money to the University you don't so I should be able to tell you how to be a fan"
September 20th, 2009 at 1:21 PM ^
Your first quote is accurate. That is what we sometimes call "a quote."
Your second quote is completley inaccurate, and I said nothing of the kind. That is what we call a "fabrication."
I am not telling anybody how to be a fan. You all seem to be telling me how to be a real fan.
September 20th, 2009 at 4:12 PM ^
Others' perception of your writing, man. You gotta know how your words are coming across to others since they can't hear or see you saying any of this. You're coming across as a Scrooge-esque fan with your word choice.
To be fair, though, some of the responses to what you've said have been more than uncalled for, too. I mostly disagree with the tone and word-choice of your argument (and a few bullet-point-issues within it), not the point itself, which seems fair enough (though as I said earlier, I'd prefer a louder Michigan Stadium with intense fans). To elaborate: kids should be able to see the game, fans should be considerate of each other, you don't need to be standing 100% of the time (things I agree with).
September 20th, 2009 at 6:48 PM ^
Quote:
"To elaborate: kids should be able to see the game, fans should be considerate of each other, you don't need to be standing 100% of the time (things I agree with)."
And so, you and I are left in agreement, right? Of course everyone in the stadium is not going to stay in their seats the entire game. Of course the students are going to stand for just about the entire game (why, I don't know).
Then, there is that broad middle ground. The one thing we do know about that broad middle ground is that there may be a situation in which somebody, possibly a member of MGoBlog, stands up when there is nobody standing in front of him. He wants to "get into" the game. He wants to somehow demonstrate his support. But someone behind says "Down in front!" And at that point we come to the central question in this Comments thread. Do you respond by saying, "Up in back!", knowing that someone might be blocked from seeing the game? Or do you sit down?
If you really believe as you say, that fans should be considerate, and that kids should be able to see the game, then you will agree with my assertion throughout this thread. The assertion that apparently has earned me about -150 MGoPoints:
That the right thing to do is to sit down.
September 20th, 2009 at 6:49 PM ^
I think you lost 150 points for sounding like a condescending prick not necessarily your assertion.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:24 PM ^
INSIDE the Stadium. I really don't care whether anybody thinks that I am condescending, nor about how many "MGoPoints" I have.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:42 PM ^
add pompous dick to your description of yourself and you will be correct.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:48 AM ^
had a "lousy" reputation. All other things being equal, Michigan Stadium has long had:
~an atmosphere that was less commercial than practically any other big football progaram particularly less so than places like the SEC, and less so than Ohio Stadium;
~an atmospehere that was somewhat quieter and more respectful than other closely comparable places like Camp Randall, South Bend and Happy Valley (never really "quiet"; the assembly of 110,000 people is never quiet);
~an atmosphere devoid of such professional sports abominations like reocorded music, and;
~a generally lower level of unruly and outrageous behavior.
That's not a "lousy" reputation. That's a wonderful reputation. Unless of course you are a 24 year old male who has just consumed 11 beers. (That's a great donor base.)
Michigan Stadium is not like Camp Randall, Ohio Stadium, Happy Valley, Spartan Stadium or that little dump in South Bend. That's not a problem. That's a great thing.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:21 PM ^
So you were never a 24 year old male who had just consumed 11 beers and have always donated tons of monies to the athletic department?
These eventual "dumbasses" will be the donor base after you pass away. So YES these fellas will eventually be the donor base.
As far as the atmosphere while you make great points about the fans and how they are hospitable, less commercial, etc which are great things. But what I've heard is this:
1. The quietest 110,000 fans you will ever meet
2. The Big Quiet House
3. The Library
These are not compliments. There is a line between being unruly douchebags and cheering hard for your team. Just because you yell and scream doesn't mean that you are not being respectful to your opposing fans.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:47 PM ^
How about, "No."
Yes, I was a student; I went to all the games. We yelled and drank beer (it was a lot easier to drink beer inside the stadium then) had fun and did a lot of standing (about half the game) IN THE STUDENT SECTION. Where, by definition, there are no young children, people with infirmities, etc.
If you were reading carefully, you'd know that I already stipulated that anything goes in the student section. But once you graduate, you're supposed to grow up in all sorts of ways.
As for what you hear about Michigan Stadium being too quiet... You hear that from sportswriters, from sportstalk radio, etc. In other words, people that matter less than nothing. The kids in the program matter, but it hardly matters to them whether the people in Section 1 are standing up.
Some of you guys seem to be listening too much to what people say and write about us. I can tell you, before we had Drew Sharpton (I wish I had thought of that; that's one of the great things about MGoBlog), we had Mike Downey, and half a dozen others. (Okay, you got me; Drew Sharp really is the worst in history.) It just goes on and on. Michgigan should just take care of its own business and its own patrons, supporters, alumni and family. The rest can go to hell. Let's put a winning team on the field, and put out teams that do everything right, on and off the field. Nothing else, no one else, matters.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:02 PM ^
That drunken 24 year olds are not a great place for an alumni base. This is the alumni base of the future. You were there and obviously you've made something of yourself.
I think that you need to stop lumping all of us dumb, drunk, 20 somethings into the stereotypical drunken douchebag.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:12 PM ^
are the alumni base of the future.
Drunken 24 year olds who grow up to be drunken 44 year olds are not. (Although why are we picking on alcohol? That seems gratuitous. I don;t really care what you are drinking, if your behavior is appropriate. There are loads of sober assholes out there.)
I don't do, in Section 1, what I used to do, in Section 29. Simple as that.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^
Who grow to be men and women of all kinds of stripes, views, opinions, abilities ... are the alumni base of the future. Diversity and such.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:44 PM ^
or former drunken 21 year olds that grow up to be pompous asshole like yourself are not either
September 20th, 2009 at 12:36 PM ^
Again you're making broad generalizations to people that are not accurate. But therein lies the problem with broad generalizations.
Me, I'm 26. I come home from most games without a voice because I go to the stadium and make noise. Does that mean I'm a jerk to fans of the other team? NO. As I mentioned previously, they're just like me - they just happen to like the team wearing other colors. I'm as gracious to them as I am to any other person. Do unto others and that whole thing.
On the way to the stadium, I wish them luck. If I happen to be running a tailgate, I invite them in for a beer or a hotdog.
After the game, I'm usually found sincerely wishing them luck for the rest of the season despite the loss.
Edited to say: I'm about 85% sure at this point you're a troll, so I won't be bothering with future responses. Take care, and despite our differences in opinion, go blue!
September 20th, 2009 at 12:56 PM ^
Brian Cook, I presume, knows exactly who I am, by name, and I'll bet that he'd laugh at the notion that I am a "troll."
I read the rest of your entry, and I don't take issue with one single word of it. Treat our opponents with common courtesy.
Remember, the reason that I took issue -- and THE ONLY REASON -- with anyone here was on the issue of refusing to sit when people were asked to please sit down.
It sounds to me that you treat opponents with greater respect than fellow Michigan fans and patrons in Michigan Stadium. Or, do you agree with me that when people are asked to sit down so that all can see, people should sit?
For that propostition, I think I went from being about +60 points to about -90 points. Whatever that means. I think that what it means is that if MGoBlog were a street gang, I would not be getting my colors this week.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:01 PM ^
Story checks out. He's a UM undergrad class of '80.
September 20th, 2009 at 2:47 PM ^
Class of '80? Section 1, don't you have better things to do as a fifty-something year-old man than sit on the internet and argue with students and former students who are young enough to be your children? You are welcome to read MGoBlog, it is a great resource for Michigan fans of all ages, but if your only contribution to the boards is to fight with people half your age, maybe you should think about not posting.
September 20th, 2009 at 5:50 PM ^
Yes, I have much better things to do than argue with students and other millennials.
Yes, I love the content on MGoBlog; Brian Cook already knows that I am an avid reader and that I like his blog and will sing its praises.
Yes, I like reading the blog during the football season in particular; I've given up on the Detroit papers. (Not that I ever much liked them to begin with.)
Yes, I do think it worth my while to defend what I think is an apporpriate standard of behavior in the Stadium because I dearly enjoy my fall Saturdays in Ann Arbor. It is something that I can do while I watch golf on tv and catch up on my week's other reading. (Because of the early game-time yesterday, I was able to hit balls and test some new drivers late yesterday afternoon.)
I think that about covers it.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:05 PM ^
I just think that you are someone who thinks that they are entitled to things because they donate money to the university.
As I've said in this thread if people in front of me are impeding my view then yes I will stand up in front of you because I will not be a "down in front". But I'm not going to stand up if no one else is standing up because that is douche.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^
I already addressed "entitlement." It's untrue.
As for your coming around on the "down in front issue"; you just agreed with me. Thanks.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:23 PM ^
because during ND week I was asked by someone to sit down or go to the student section. Everyone was standing up in front of me. I did not sit down until the fans in front of me sat down.
By your rules I should have sat down.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:40 PM ^
By my "rules," I'd have seen that you were only standing up because people (you specifically mentioned fans from ND, didn't you?) were standing in front of you. My "rule" is that it would be pointless and in fact silly and sort of rude to yell at you.
In your case, the villains were the ND fans. But that is what they do in South Bend. They all stand. All the time. I wish them all the very worst. It is reason number 101,001 to never associate with, and never to admire anything close to, Notre Dame.
Didn't I already say that?
September 20th, 2009 at 1:10 PM ^
If it smells like a troll, posts like a troll, etc. Glad to see you are not - it makes responding to you not feel like I'm wasting my time. I've pointed out my issues with your demeanor above, so I won't repost them here.
I do agree when people are asked to sit, they should sit. I also believe, however, that there should be a reason for it. I don't so much mind those that sit as long as they're doing their part to make Michigan Stadium what it rightfully is - the best stadium in which to watch a game of football.
Fans I don't mind: the elderly, disabled, students, men, women, black people, white people, kids, fans of other teams - well, I think you see where I'm going with this. I don't mind most fans. See below.
Fans I mind: those blatantly ignoring the game. Why are you reading a newspaper/book/texting your friend on our critical 3rd down stop? Makes no sense to me.
As for your colors, I think you've earned your fair share. Nobody gets anywhere without adversity, right?
September 20th, 2009 at 1:15 PM ^
down when asked by older fans or by fans with young kids. If you are standing up and are the only one in your section standing up then yes you should sit down.
But if the rest of the section is standing up and the non-standers are in the minority then it is their job to stand up not yours to sit down!
September 20th, 2009 at 1:35 PM ^
Draw up a plan. Talk to Bill Martin, Joe Parker, Marty Bodnar, whomever. Try to arrange some areas of the stadium that cater to that. Make a good case to them. We have the smartest, most capable Athletic Department Administration in the land.
Just don't expect everybody else to be told by folks like you when to stand and when to sit. And don't expect alumni in Sections 1 or 2 or 44 (or you pick the section number)-- many of whom are in their sixties or seventites or even eighties, who have been going to games in the same seats for 50 years, and who have given the athletic department hundreds of millions in donations and supplied the tools that U-M has today -- don't expect those people to be told by MoGoBloggers to "just stand up."
September 20th, 2009 at 1:45 PM ^
That's part of the entitlement thing you're getting hammered over. I'm a two time grad of UM but I don't think that means Jack in this situation. The guy next to me bought his ticket and it makes no difference what his educational background is.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:02 PM ^
I think I agree with you. Fundamentally, the Stadium isn't an "Alumni only" zone, and some of our biggest donors and sponsors and contractors are not Alums.
And at a fundamental-decency level, who could argue with the notion that the average guy who paid for his ticket deserves all the basic respect and accomodation that goes along with that ticket?
But I ask you; doesn't the guy who brought his four-foot-tall 8 year-old son to the game and who says, "Down in front, my boy can't see!" deserve that sort of resepct? (Ditto, for the guy who brought his 78 year-old father to the game.)
So set aside "alumni" considerations. Doesn't my point (respecting the call for "Down in front") hold true?!?
I'll go even farther! My request that a civilized and reasonable call for "Down in front!" be respected, is motivated not by elitism but by concern for the average stadium patron. Where I sit in Section 1, standing is little-tolerated and isn't much of a problem. It is a most minor problem is where I sit! However, the problem is most acute in places with a lesser view; and with people who are not well-heeled alumni donors but who are sitting in lower rows, with poorer sightlines. For those people, they might not be able to see much at all if everyone is standing. I want everyone in Michigan Stadium to have an enjoyable game-day experience.
You can watch the game, see all the action, yell yourself hoarse, and ridicule the Big Ten refs (I strongly endorse the ridiculing of Big Ten referees in Michigan Stadium -- Bo and Lloyd used to work the refs; Bump Elliott, Gary Moeller and Rich Rodriguez not so much), all without standing up.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:35 PM ^
The thread 'stand during the game' where he endorsed gators view. Be respectful of others. I started this thread because the fellow who yelled 'down in front' was being a real jerk. He didn't ask, he yelled with a really nasty tone. He didn't say 'down in front please' but practically cursed the words out of his mouth. But go read bouje's quoting of gator in the other thread ... That's where I'm at.
September 20th, 2009 at 5:55 PM ^
When confronted by someone standing up, start by asking them politely to sit down.