1. Throw an empty water bottle
2. Give the Lloyd Carr SCOWL!
how to handle "Down in Front!"
1. Throw an empty water bottle
"Up in back!" Good one. :D
I personally like the "Up in Back" comment. It keeps you from coming off as a total jerk off, yet you still emit a pure "up yours" sense. Also, it will probably get a few chuckles from fans near you that don't care that you stand. For me in section 12, though, it's a lot more stand-friendly. More people seem to just stand instead of fighting it.
To stand the whole game, bounce around, yell, etc. That's all fine, for the northwest corner of the stadium.
I have hated the "everybody stand up" thing from the moment that I realized that the "tradition," such as it is, grew out of South Bend.
My goal in life is to do nothing -- absolutely nothing -- they way they do it in South Bend
I don't even know what to say to this. I guess I don't agree with the whole "I want lame ass fans who want to sit down and pretend that they are at an opera drinking wine and eating cheese".
Maybe I'm the only one...
I'm part of the "I don't want to abandon Michigan Stadium to rude gen-y millenials to the detriment of people who have the kind of money it takes to support one of the handful of the biggest athletic departments in the country" crowd.
If you have to stand up to see what is going on, you must be really, really short.
Does your standing up somehow help the team on the field? Maybe so. But I think it helps in the way that painting your chest helps.
If you really want to do something for the team, start by getting off your butt and donating $10,000 to the athletic department.
And you can be assured that once I handle MY OWN finances that I will be giving to the UofM.
And there is a big difference in standing up and cheering and sitting down and cheering. You get your whole body into it and are just more into the game.
I sat/stood behind a 60 year old man if he can stand up for the whole game I think that you can too. So maybe you should get off your high horse and walk around a bit so that you can stand up for longer than the halftime show.
***EDIT*** Yes the athletic department needs people like Section1 (I think that's who it is) who's contribution to the football team is to do nothing at the games but to fund the university/football team through tons of donations and we need people like that. BUT we also need people who are like the drunken idiots at OSU/LSU/VT/ETC who yell scream and who are truly passionate about the game. That is their contribution.
In sum Congratulations for you being able to donate tons of money to the football team but that is not the only way to contribute to the football team as a fan. Frankly your opinion is what everyone talks about when they say "the arrogance of Michigan fans". Your opinion is pompous that you aren't a real fan unless you give $10,000. Sure maybe it sounds a lot but maybe just being able to afford season tickets for someone else is all that they can afford.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I didn't say that you can't be a real fan unless you're a major donor.
ON the other hand, you seem to be saying that you can't be a real fan unless you stnad up (without any need to) and block the view of people sitting behind you.
Who, I ask you, is the real antisocial asshole?
By the way, I've got news for you; we Michigan fans have been called "arrogant asses" ever since Darryl Rogers coined the phrase more than twenty years ago. I was there; an eyewitness. I was probably the only Michigan Man in the room that night in Dearborn as an invited guest at the MSU football bust. Get used to it. I want to assure you with all sincerity, that our rivals in this state, in the Big Ten and the rest of the midwest, will not stop calling us "arrogant" if Michigan Stadium patrons stand up the whole game.
The point has nothing to do with what others perceive us as, as far as arrogance goes. Your argument kind of came across badly, and misunderstanding is usually blamed on the one conveying his/her opinions, not the one interpreting them.
I appreciate the donations that people make, but I think it's good game etiquette to be into the game, cheering, and showing support for your team, and yes, standing at several points. Maybe people will still think M is arrogant, but I haven't seen a single person comment on the Big House holding the quietest 100k fans so far this season.
I'm sorry, but I can't buy into the "this fan is more important because he/she donates" thing. Dedication to a team follows a huge spectrum and saying or implying that having and donating money makes you more important seems lame. Living life with that mindset just isn't fun at all.
my "argument kind of came across badly."
I'll keep it simple.
If you are not in the student section, and if you are standing up and blocking the view of people behind you (with nobody standing up in front of you), and somebody behind you says, "down in front!", and you don't resepct that, then you are an asshole.
We can leave out donors. Forget about support for the Athletic Department. It's actually fine if everyone wants to stand. But it seems like many of you believe that "We all have to stand, all of the time. And, we're going to make people behind us stand if they want to see anything. Whether they like it or not..." (Like, uh, in South Bend!?!)
It's just that by throwing out statements like "I don't care if my argument comes across badly," and then implying that you'll keep it simple because you don't think that I (or others here) understand your argument, you don't exactly inspire a legitimate argument. Intellectual debate with respect is a MICHIGAN thing, isn't it?
BTW, saying standing all game is a South Bend thing is like saying that "It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine" is a Michigan-source thing.... irrelevant (no offense.)
I never said or even implied that anyone had to stand all game, especially not against Eastern - though I do think that would be a cool visual show of dedication.
you have watered down the debate to nothingness when you write in terms of "standing at several points."
The whole freaking stadium is standing "at several points." That's not an issue.
The one issue here is standing, when there is no need to stand, and when someone behind you has therefore asked you to sit so that they can see.
You don't need to attempt to insult me to make your point. If you can't have a friendly argument, then maybe you need to talk to Brian because I'm fairly certain he'd disagree with the way you and several others here are arguing.
Sorry for saying "several others." Hopefully that's not too watered down for you. I'd hate to further prove how much better a person you are than I am.
EDIT: By the same token that you criticize the way I say "standing at several points of the game," I could question the amount of time that some people, possibly in your section, stand and say that though they "stand at several points," it's really not all that much at all.
and i bet some of the people at the stadium didnt even go to school at michigan! ahhhhhhhhhh this is lowering my social status!! ahhhhh what should i do!
BTW, yeah, my word choice was bad by saying "standing at several points." But I'm assuming that everyone here knows what I mean. If anyone doesn't and would like me to clarify what specific points I'm talking about, then I'd be more than willing to elaborate.
HINT: The best way to tell you what points at which it's good to stand is to tell you the less-than-handful of times that you might as well sit down.
Here is your quote:
"If you really want to do something for the team, start by getting off your butt and donating $10,000 to the athletic department."
That sounds an awful lot like the only way to really help out the team is to donate at least $10,000. I especially like the part about "getting off my butt".
Secondly as I said later in the thread if people are standing up in front of me instead of me being a "down in front" I will stand up. If my view is impeded then I will stand up and cheer.
Finally, if you treat going to a football game as going to an opera where you are just a mere spectator and have no bearing on the outcome of the game then please give up your seats and stay home. If you don't go home with a sore throat then yes I will say that you are not a good fan no matter how much money you donate to the football team/University in general.
Just because I buy a ticket doesn't give me the right to stand up when no one else is standing up. But just because you give money to the University doesn't mean that you are an all powerful and knowing being. Because you're not you just come across as a pompous, arrogant blue hair.
... I don't think you understand opera very well if you think that the audience is just a passive observer.
And you obviously have never been to the opera, or a Michigan game, with me.
Act One of Mozart's Die Zauberflote is a good one to send a message to the cast, especially Papageno, that, "We're into this, baby! Let's rock!" It all pays off, obviously, in the Third Act.
There are several moments in Rigoletto when the audience can make the difference between triumph and ordinary. (We could say the same of so much of Italian bel canto. And depending on the venue, say, a place like La Scala, it could be huge.)
And as you undoubtedly know, the mad scenes from Turandot and Lucia di Lammermoor are make-or-break occasions for the audience.
I'm guessing that we'd agree on all of that.
It isn't a movie, it is an event where you are supposed to be part of the experience, not a passive observer.
You are not in the stadium to 'watch' a game. You can watch it on TV and get better camera angles, replays, commentary and be sitting on your nice comfy sofa. Honestly, why would you brave the crowds and sit on a cramped, hard bench just to sit and watch the game from a distance?
Being at the game means that you should join other fans and help make the environment as attritious as possible for the opposing team. If you are just going to watch, stay home and give the tickets to any of the 10,000+ on the waiting list that will make a difference.
I am an M alum, as are my parents, brother and sister. I grew up in East Lansing and my Mother's side of the family are all Columbus Bucknuts. I am tired of hearing from Sparty, Buckeye and Penn State fans what a lame, easy venue our stadium is to play in. I live in California now and even fans out here, from Cal of all places, give me shit about it. I have heard our beloved Big House referred to as, 'The Big Easy', Whine Country, The Big Mouse, etc, ad nauseam...
Our program has taken steps toward becoming an elite team nationally, we should be on our way to becoming an elite fanbase. That doesn't mean Bucknut-esque lunacy, or the 'Yo, Brah', empty chest-thumping of Spartyrdom, but you can go all out for your team. I sort of look at Texas fans as having a pretty good handle on things and are a great mix of crazy and classy. Their stadium rocks, why can't ours?
I think it may take a while, as the blue-hairs will only be purged with time.
I don't agree with the vitriole on either end of this conversation. You are supposed to be on the same side, so chill out a bit and enjoy 3-0.
on the Texas example, Tex fans are generally pretty classy and their program, though better this decade, is similar to ours.
"I'm part of the "I don't want to abandon Michigan Stadium to rude gen-y millenials to the detriment of people who have the kind of money it takes to support one of the handful of the biggest athletic departments in the country" crowd."
So, you're a douche?
I noticed on BTN today that on a 3rd and short when U-M had the ball, all the ND fans were shaking their keys, just like our cheerleaders/scoreboard instruct us to do in similar situations. Did we get that from them as well, or vice versa?
I already hate you and I just met you.
I'm all for standing up, all of that. However, if you're the only person standing in your section, that does NOT give you the right to stand up and try to prove a point. No, this doesn't make you a more hardcore fan--it just makes you a pathetic 20-something who doesn't understand you're not in the student section anymore. Take a seat and yell. It's called being considerate.
I got told to sit down or go to the student section during the ND game when all of the ND students were standing in front of us.
The people in front have to start the people behind them standing up.
Pity that nobody just beat them all down.
There used to be a time when ad hominem attacks were negbanged. Sigh...
in those particular seats, you probably will need to do better than the aforementioned $10,000.
The athletic department will appreciate your support.
You sound like a horrible person. I'm glad I do not know you.
I support the Michigan football program. I contribute to the athletic department. I go to the games. I cheer for the team. I go on road trips with them to cheer them on and support them in other stadiums.
And you think that I am a "horrible person" because I have suggested that while standing up for the entire game is okay for the student section, it really is not a good idea for the rest of the stadium?
Is that what makes me a "horrible person" in the eyes of the MGoBlog demographic?
Who are you guys? Maybe I am in the wrong place.
I'm not negging you at all for presenting your opinion, just offering friendly opposition to it because I disagree with you. I doubt most the people who read this thread think you're a horrible person.
The only thing I can think of is that maayyyybe you should've read your first posts before posting to see what people would perceive "the point" or what you were trying to imply. Because it seemed to come off as a bit harsh.
And your support is appreciated.
I agree with the general principle of standing during the entire game, I just don't really see a need for posters to drop into ad hominem attacks against you or others that they disagree with.
No, his support actually is not appreciated. If someone donates money and feels some entitlement to criticize fans who want to stand and and cheer, I would prefer he spends his money elsewhere. That attitude is precisely where the "arrogant assess" label comes from.
It sounds so good to say it that way, doesn't it?
It doesn't sound quite so good when it is described as some guy or a couple of guys, who do not need to stand, and whose standing actually blocks the view of people who also paid for seats and who do not want to stand.
For the record, I am not criticizing "fans who want to stand and cheer." I AM criticizing fans whose standing is a nuisance to people sitting behind them.
How do you know when you've become a nuisance? Easy. When somebody tells you to please sit down, so that everybody else can see, too.
Piped-in music idea for next week: REM's Stand.
You win. The follow up comment sealed that.
I am officially proud to be a nuisance, to the person sitting behind me and, more importantly, to whichever team we are beating.
no, you're not a horrible person, but why do you feel it isn't a good idea?
So... you're a $12 an hour day laborer.
I really, really tried to avoid this, but you dragged it out of me.
You're a dick.
Pity that nobody just beat them all down.
Nobody should have that type of attitude towards opposing fans. They just happen to like the other team.
You're a dick.
You're a dick.
No, he's a short, shriveled, erectile disfuncted, excuse for a penis.
100% agreement. You cannot be a great fan without some discretion. Know when to sit and when to stand.
I had this girl two rows in front of me--one fan--that stood up the whole ND game. I stand up quite a bit, but the WHOLE game? She deserved some flying debris (but I don't condone that because the target is almost never hit).
You don't need to stand the whole game, but you shoudld stand most of the time the team is on defense and for crucial plays. No reason not to. You should never feel you need to sit down because the people behind you don't like it.
and this is what is wrong with America. Everyone is too fat and lazy. I'm not going to say anymore than this because I know I'll get negged into oblivion but I hardly think that the worst thing that you could do is to stand up for a few hours and burn some calories.
For all the 3rd downs for Eastern and Michigan. I stood during "The Victors" (which is a must) and after a big offensive play like A 30 or 40 yard throw deffinetly. I personally like going to hockey games more than football games you don't have to worry about down in front. But yes football and soccer games are standing games in my opinion. I think it makes the game more exciting and the student section is highly recommended.
IMO hockey crowds at Yost have always been better than M Stadium fans. I also think it has to do with the nature of hockey fans, though.
Fewer $10,000+ donors.
I have stood for about 90% of the season so far. Sitting and doing the golf clap is complete rubbish. I hope all of the "Section 1" types out there move their lazy arses into the luxury boxes next year.
I actually have/had a legit "Down in Front" situation. The gentleman behind me is an older guy (alum and veteran) that needs to use a cane to stand and walk.
I'm one of those idiots that gets hyped yells and screams for a 3 yard gain and everything else.
I suggested he move down to my seats and I move up to his.
Doesn't help him on the "potential big play" situations, but at least he gets to see 70 percent of the game and not my backside
Very well done.
... that it is not okay to simply ignore the people behind you, that particular guy you mentioned, and say, "Up in back!"
In the end, your solution is to go up to Row 99; or to find someplace where they don't care if you stand the whole game.
Which is fine with me as I've said all along. I have no desire to tell people what to do if they aren't bothering anyone else.
The bottom line here is that people like you are blocking other paying customers' view of the game, when you stand with no need of your own to stand. Moreover, this thread has been about another level of that rudeness; when you are asked by someone whose view you are blocking, to please sit down. I gather that many of you will refuse to do so.
Look, if you were serious about this, instead of sitting around in your pajamas and tapping out blog entries, you'd propose "standing areas" to Bill Martin and Joe Parker. And you'd make a business case to them about how that would work and why it would be good for the Athletic Department. Again, I'd have no problem with that. None at all.
Just don't expect to get friendly treatment from poeple whose view of the game you are blocking.
When I'm at a game and everyone in front of me is standing the whole game whether they be Michigan fans, ND fans, (whoever it doesn't matter) and they are impeding my view as a fan I have 2 options:
1. Stand up and see the game
2. Sit down and not see dick
What option do you think I'm going to do? I'm not going to stand in front of people if no one else is standing but if the people in front of me are impeding me then I'm going to impede the people behind me and if you ask me to sit down I will say "tell the people in front of me to sit down and then I will".
My take is this if you see someone standing at the game who is older than you are you should probably be standing too. When I see a 60 year old men at the game standing the whole game and then I have a 40 year old woman yelling at me (who is 2 rows behind me) to tell me to sit down (when there are no young kids/incredibly old people directly behind me) or go sit in the student section that is a problem. A 60 year old man is directly standing in front of me and you single me out to yell at me to sit down? It's ridiculous.
nice to see this board polarizing into the "I bought my ticket so I'll stand for the whole game" assholes vs. the "I donated money so I'll feel free to lecture others" assholes.
It's about being a fan, but it's also about context.
I don't give a crap if you want to watch the game naked, STANDING, and blowing an air horn out your ass for every play. That's great, do it at home.
Do you ever actually notice the people around you at games you inconsiderate f#cks?
Some of them are older (perhaps hanging onto their seats a bit longer than they should) but quite a few of them are kids, many at their first game.
What do you think their memory of their first game at Michigan is going to be like:
1. everybody cheered and we won, or
2. that mean guy yelled at everyone and I couldn't see anything.
Dred Scott made a great point, consider your fellow fans; because like it or not, they ARE your fellow fans, and this isn't a contest to see who has the biggest penis because they yelled the loudest or stood the longest. That's the asshole contest, and it's held in Columbus annually.
If you've got shorter women, kids, or disabled people around you CONSIDER their game experience. Most great fans that I see help get those around them into the game by being
oh, and did I mention friendly?
Fans who who stand with a "f#ck everyone else" attitude are LAZY fans and I don't want them.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
On the other side of the coin we have the "I'm a donor, and I know what's best crowd".
Look, we appreciate the cash buddy, but in case you're wondering why we're building the luxury boxes and the club seating; its so other LAZY fans like you that have given Michigan Stadium such a lousy rep can all be herded together and rousingly ignored by everybody else.
Your at a football game, a COLLEGE football game, outside with at least 100,000 other people who are really excited to see a football game today and maybe, just MAYBE have had something to drink. So hats off to you "Mr. Unrealistic Expectations" your fellow fans are loud, animated, and probably have the energy to stand and go apeshit for 3+ hours.
You kinda knew what you were getting into here, and you really can't get too down on people who are finally seeing the type of high powered games they've always imagined at Michigan Stadium.
You have two choices for the rest of the season:
1. liven the f#ck up, are you a fan or not. The more people yell and go nuts, the more our young team feels supported (and honestly, we also appreciate the $)
2. Reserve your glass-fronted prison upstairs, no one will stand in front of you, but you'll never truly feel part of the game again, and deep down you know that.
Can we all go back to wearing our maize and blue thongs in peace?
Sure. I'll sport my maize and blue thong. But I will stand up plenty so that you get a good look at it.
My original post on this was due to a jerk behind us yesterday: I was in section 10 ... most people were sitting for most of the game, but then most people stood for the key plays. All in all I thought it was pretty good for just about everyone there. There could've been more standing, but not for the whole game since there seemed to be a good number of older folks - blue hairs but not the monied kind that seem to piss of so many of us here - and I think it would be a burden on them to stand most of the game.
Anyway, there were a couple times when a few people stood - for just short periods - when most people were sitting, and then there was the jerk behind us who would loudly, and with anger!, scold these few people who were standing for just a short period. My thought was "dude, chill out, they're obviously not gonna stand the whole game, so big deal if these few fans are standing for a few extra minutes."
So my take overall is that as fans we should be helping the team on the field as much as we can - cheering with might and main as our song claims! The players obviously want more from us since they so often exhort us to get louder. I think we'd be more of a factor in the game if we stood and yelled more than we do, but I didn't mean to imply standing the whole game, since indeed there are quite a few older fans who probably can't do that, and also kids who would never see a play at all. We should be a factor in the game - the 12th man - but we should also try to be respectful of those around us. But man, that jerk behind me yesterday just p*ssed me off. He was the @sshole yesterday, not the handful of fans who stood a few times for a few minutes when most were sitting around them.
Anyone who thinks that the entire stadium should be standing for most of the game, and at least every big/important play, is also saying that young kids in attendance at the Stadium will not see most of the game, and none of the big/important plays.
Of course, we can just have a general policy of standing up small schoolchildren on the bleacher seats themselves. Surrounded, of course, by 24 year olds who just might have had a cold beverage or two before the game. That's a terrific policy. The University's self-insurance risk managers will love that one. So will the excess liability carriers. Bill Martin will be tickled by the idea.
I think it is unreasonable to expect people at a sporting event to siton the big/important plays. A sporting event isn't like watching a movie or going to the symphony.
That's not it. If I'm standing and you can't see stand up. If you don't stand up then that is an awful waste of money.
"The players obviously want more from us since they so often exhort us to get louder. I think we'd be more of a factor in the game if we stood and yelled more than we do, but I didn't mean to imply standing the whole game, since indeed there are quite a few older fans who probably can't do that, and also kids who would never see a play at all."
That's basically what I was trying to say, too. I got shot down and I was never trying to say that anyone should stand all game. Well said.
especially the part about friendly.
Same team people, same team.
I wish to God you are the person behind me next game. In fact, I will ask the person behind me if you "are the wheaties guy" and if you say yes, I will stand through every tv timeout I can just so you piss me off, and I can punch you in your silver spoon fed mouth you ungrateful dick.
I, as a graduate, a Victors Club member and a long-time supporter of the Athletic Department am a "problem,";
and meanwhile, "jehstratus" represents the future of the program and the mainstream view of the Wolverine blogosphere?
Have I got that right?
I, as a graduate, a Victors Club member and a long-time supporter of the Athletic Department am a "problem,"
Look, as long as you use those as justification for your "entitlement," then YES, you are a problem. There are plenty of alumni, Victors Club members, and supporters of the AD that DON'T feel they are "owed" anything.
I think you're completely missing the point of donating. If you recall (and if you don't, please click the link and think it over for a bit), it's not something you do to get something in return.
edit: I should also add that jehstratus here is not in the right either; you, I, and others know that's no way to handle things. He does not represent a majority view, nor could anyone.
Everybody loves tax benefits! That is the only thing that you should get by donating and maybe a smile on your face knowing that you are helping to fund some of the under-funded sports at the University of Michigan.
I haven't asked for anything from you guys, other than to let me see most of the game without having to stand up to see over or around you.
The only other thing that I asked for, was the respect and courtesy for people behind you who can't see if you are standing.
I didn't demand that the sutdents sit down. I didn't even demand that any of you sit down, neccessarily, outside of the student section. If you guys can find places in the stadium to stand and yell, I actually think that's great.
My one basic premise in this thread was that your saying "Up in back!" to people who request "Down in front!" was wrong. Is that what you mean by "entitlement"?
and I quote:
"If you really want to do something for the team, start by getting off your butt and donating $10,000 to the athletic department."
Which combined with what you've said in other threads means:
"I give money to the University you don't so I should be able to tell you how to be a fan"
Your first quote is accurate. That is what we sometimes call "a quote."
Your second quote is completley inaccurate, and I said nothing of the kind. That is what we call a "fabrication."
I am not telling anybody how to be a fan. You all seem to be telling me how to be a real fan.
Others' perception of your writing, man. You gotta know how your words are coming across to others since they can't hear or see you saying any of this. You're coming across as a Scrooge-esque fan with your word choice.
To be fair, though, some of the responses to what you've said have been more than uncalled for, too. I mostly disagree with the tone and word-choice of your argument (and a few bullet-point-issues within it), not the point itself, which seems fair enough (though as I said earlier, I'd prefer a louder Michigan Stadium with intense fans). To elaborate: kids should be able to see the game, fans should be considerate of each other, you don't need to be standing 100% of the time (things I agree with).
"To elaborate: kids should be able to see the game, fans should be considerate of each other, you don't need to be standing 100% of the time (things I agree with)."
And so, you and I are left in agreement, right? Of course everyone in the stadium is not going to stay in their seats the entire game. Of course the students are going to stand for just about the entire game (why, I don't know).
Then, there is that broad middle ground. The one thing we do know about that broad middle ground is that there may be a situation in which somebody, possibly a member of MGoBlog, stands up when there is nobody standing in front of him. He wants to "get into" the game. He wants to somehow demonstrate his support. But someone behind says "Down in front!" And at that point we come to the central question in this Comments thread. Do you respond by saying, "Up in back!", knowing that someone might be blocked from seeing the game? Or do you sit down?
If you really believe as you say, that fans should be considerate, and that kids should be able to see the game, then you will agree with my assertion throughout this thread. The assertion that apparently has earned me about -150 MGoPoints:
That the right thing to do is to sit down.
I think you lost 150 points for sounding like a condescending prick not necessarily your assertion.
INSIDE the Stadium. I really don't care whether anybody thinks that I am condescending, nor about how many "MGoPoints" I have.
had a "lousy" reputation. All other things being equal, Michigan Stadium has long had:
~an atmosphere that was less commercial than practically any other big football progaram particularly less so than places like the SEC, and less so than Ohio Stadium;
~an atmospehere that was somewhat quieter and more respectful than other closely comparable places like Camp Randall, South Bend and Happy Valley (never really "quiet"; the assembly of 110,000 people is never quiet);
~an atmosphere devoid of such professional sports abominations like reocorded music, and;
~a generally lower level of unruly and outrageous behavior.
That's not a "lousy" reputation. That's a wonderful reputation. Unless of course you are a 24 year old male who has just consumed 11 beers. (That's a great donor base.)
Michigan Stadium is not like Camp Randall, Ohio Stadium, Happy Valley, Spartan Stadium or that little dump in South Bend. That's not a problem. That's a great thing.
So you were never a 24 year old male who had just consumed 11 beers and have always donated tons of monies to the athletic department?
These eventual "dumbasses" will be the donor base after you pass away. So YES these fellas will eventually be the donor base.
As far as the atmosphere while you make great points about the fans and how they are hospitable, less commercial, etc which are great things. But what I've heard is this:
1. The quietest 110,000 fans you will ever meet
2. The Big Quiet House
3. The Library
These are not compliments. There is a line between being unruly douchebags and cheering hard for your team. Just because you yell and scream doesn't mean that you are not being respectful to your opposing fans.
How about, "No."
Yes, I was a student; I went to all the games. We yelled and drank beer (it was a lot easier to drink beer inside the stadium then) had fun and did a lot of standing (about half the game) IN THE STUDENT SECTION. Where, by definition, there are no young children, people with infirmities, etc.
If you were reading carefully, you'd know that I already stipulated that anything goes in the student section. But once you graduate, you're supposed to grow up in all sorts of ways.
As for what you hear about Michigan Stadium being too quiet... You hear that from sportswriters, from sportstalk radio, etc. In other words, people that matter less than nothing. The kids in the program matter, but it hardly matters to them whether the people in Section 1 are standing up.
Some of you guys seem to be listening too much to what people say and write about us. I can tell you, before we had Drew Sharpton (I wish I had thought of that; that's one of the great things about MGoBlog), we had Mike Downey, and half a dozen others. (Okay, you got me; Drew Sharp really is the worst in history.) It just goes on and on. Michgigan should just take care of its own business and its own patrons, supporters, alumni and family. The rest can go to hell. Let's put a winning team on the field, and put out teams that do everything right, on and off the field. Nothing else, no one else, matters.
That drunken 24 year olds are not a great place for an alumni base. This is the alumni base of the future. You were there and obviously you've made something of yourself.
I think that you need to stop lumping all of us dumb, drunk, 20 somethings into the stereotypical drunken douchebag.
are the alumni base of the future.
Drunken 24 year olds who grow up to be drunken 44 year olds are not. (Although why are we picking on alcohol? That seems gratuitous. I don;t really care what you are drinking, if your behavior is appropriate. There are loads of sober assholes out there.)
I don't do, in Section 1, what I used to do, in Section 29. Simple as that.
Who grow to be men and women of all kinds of stripes, views, opinions, abilities ... are the alumni base of the future. Diversity and such.
Again you're making broad generalizations to people that are not accurate. But therein lies the problem with broad generalizations.
Me, I'm 26. I come home from most games without a voice because I go to the stadium and make noise. Does that mean I'm a jerk to fans of the other team? NO. As I mentioned previously, they're just like me - they just happen to like the team wearing other colors. I'm as gracious to them as I am to any other person. Do unto others and that whole thing.
On the way to the stadium, I wish them luck. If I happen to be running a tailgate, I invite them in for a beer or a hotdog.
After the game, I'm usually found sincerely wishing them luck for the rest of the season despite the loss.
Edited to say: I'm about 85% sure at this point you're a troll, so I won't be bothering with future responses. Take care, and despite our differences in opinion, go blue!
Brian Cook, I presume, knows exactly who I am, by name, and I'll bet that he'd laugh at the notion that I am a "troll."
I read the rest of your entry, and I don't take issue with one single word of it. Treat our opponents with common courtesy.
Remember, the reason that I took issue -- and THE ONLY REASON -- with anyone here was on the issue of refusing to sit when people were asked to please sit down.
It sounds to me that you treat opponents with greater respect than fellow Michigan fans and patrons in Michigan Stadium. Or, do you agree with me that when people are asked to sit down so that all can see, people should sit?
For that propostition, I think I went from being about +60 points to about -90 points. Whatever that means. I think that what it means is that if MGoBlog were a street gang, I would not be getting my colors this week.
Story checks out. He's a UM undergrad class of '80.
Class of '80? Section 1, don't you have better things to do as a fifty-something year-old man than sit on the internet and argue with students and former students who are young enough to be your children? You are welcome to read MGoBlog, it is a great resource for Michigan fans of all ages, but if your only contribution to the boards is to fight with people half your age, maybe you should think about not posting.
Yes, I have much better things to do than argue with students and other millennials.
Yes, I love the content on MGoBlog; Brian Cook already knows that I am an avid reader and that I like his blog and will sing its praises.
Yes, I like reading the blog during the football season in particular; I've given up on the Detroit papers. (Not that I ever much liked them to begin with.)
Yes, I do think it worth my while to defend what I think is an apporpriate standard of behavior in the Stadium because I dearly enjoy my fall Saturdays in Ann Arbor. It is something that I can do while I watch golf on tv and catch up on my week's other reading. (Because of the early game-time yesterday, I was able to hit balls and test some new drivers late yesterday afternoon.)
I think that about covers it.
I just think that you are someone who thinks that they are entitled to things because they donate money to the university.
As I've said in this thread if people in front of me are impeding my view then yes I will stand up in front of you because I will not be a "down in front". But I'm not going to stand up if no one else is standing up because that is douche.
I already addressed "entitlement." It's untrue.
As for your coming around on the "down in front issue"; you just agreed with me. Thanks.
because during ND week I was asked by someone to sit down or go to the student section. Everyone was standing up in front of me. I did not sit down until the fans in front of me sat down.
By your rules I should have sat down.
By my "rules," I'd have seen that you were only standing up because people (you specifically mentioned fans from ND, didn't you?) were standing in front of you. My "rule" is that it would be pointless and in fact silly and sort of rude to yell at you.
In your case, the villains were the ND fans. But that is what they do in South Bend. They all stand. All the time. I wish them all the very worst. It is reason number 101,001 to never associate with, and never to admire anything close to, Notre Dame.
Didn't I already say that?
If it smells like a troll, posts like a troll, etc. Glad to see you are not - it makes responding to you not feel like I'm wasting my time. I've pointed out my issues with your demeanor above, so I won't repost them here.
I do agree when people are asked to sit, they should sit. I also believe, however, that there should be a reason for it. I don't so much mind those that sit as long as they're doing their part to make Michigan Stadium what it rightfully is - the best stadium in which to watch a game of football.
Fans I don't mind: the elderly, disabled, students, men, women, black people, white people, kids, fans of other teams - well, I think you see where I'm going with this. I don't mind most fans. See below.
Fans I mind: those blatantly ignoring the game. Why are you reading a newspaper/book/texting your friend on our critical 3rd down stop? Makes no sense to me.
As for your colors, I think you've earned your fair share. Nobody gets anywhere without adversity, right?
down when asked by older fans or by fans with young kids. If you are standing up and are the only one in your section standing up then yes you should sit down.
But if the rest of the section is standing up and the non-standers are in the minority then it is their job to stand up not yours to sit down!
Draw up a plan. Talk to Bill Martin, Joe Parker, Marty Bodnar, whomever. Try to arrange some areas of the stadium that cater to that. Make a good case to them. We have the smartest, most capable Athletic Department Administration in the land.
Just don't expect everybody else to be told by folks like you when to stand and when to sit. And don't expect alumni in Sections 1 or 2 or 44 (or you pick the section number)-- many of whom are in their sixties or seventites or even eighties, who have been going to games in the same seats for 50 years, and who have given the athletic department hundreds of millions in donations and supplied the tools that U-M has today -- don't expect those people to be told by MoGoBloggers to "just stand up."
That's part of the entitlement thing you're getting hammered over. I'm a two time grad of UM but I don't think that means Jack in this situation. The guy next to me bought his ticket and it makes no difference what his educational background is.
I think I agree with you. Fundamentally, the Stadium isn't an "Alumni only" zone, and some of our biggest donors and sponsors and contractors are not Alums.
And at a fundamental-decency level, who could argue with the notion that the average guy who paid for his ticket deserves all the basic respect and accomodation that goes along with that ticket?
But I ask you; doesn't the guy who brought his four-foot-tall 8 year-old son to the game and who says, "Down in front, my boy can't see!" deserve that sort of resepct? (Ditto, for the guy who brought his 78 year-old father to the game.)
So set aside "alumni" considerations. Doesn't my point (respecting the call for "Down in front") hold true?!?
I'll go even farther! My request that a civilized and reasonable call for "Down in front!" be respected, is motivated not by elitism but by concern for the average stadium patron. Where I sit in Section 1, standing is little-tolerated and isn't much of a problem. It is a most minor problem is where I sit! However, the problem is most acute in places with a lesser view; and with people who are not well-heeled alumni donors but who are sitting in lower rows, with poorer sightlines. For those people, they might not be able to see much at all if everyone is standing. I want everyone in Michigan Stadium to have an enjoyable game-day experience.
You can watch the game, see all the action, yell yourself hoarse, and ridicule the Big Ten refs (I strongly endorse the ridiculing of Big Ten referees in Michigan Stadium -- Bo and Lloyd used to work the refs; Bump Elliott, Gary Moeller and Rich Rodriguez not so much), all without standing up.
The thread 'stand during the game' where he endorsed gators view. Be respectful of others. I started this thread because the fellow who yelled 'down in front' was being a real jerk. He didn't ask, he yelled with a really nasty tone. He didn't say 'down in front please' but practically cursed the words out of his mouth. But go read bouje's quoting of gator in the other thread ... That's where I'm at.
When confronted by someone standing up, start by asking them politely to sit down.
Why not set up a "sitting only section" Let's be realistic though this already happens on the Michigan sideline between the student section and the endzone.
Every game I go and we do that M-I-C-H-I-G-A-N cheer you "wonderful" fans on the 50 who are C are practically in-audible and the nearby sections always yell out C to help you guys out. That's pathetic.
You're wrong, but wrong in the most interesting way.
You've got your stadium section numbers mixed up. The fans on the 50 on the Michigan sideline are 'Section 24,' plus or minus. Section 24 is a section composed of some alumni, but also faculty, University contractors, friends of the team, coaches families, etc. I sat in Section 24 for the Western game because I had given my Section 1 seats to other family members. Section 24 was indeed quiet. They were a lot of observers.
I'm on the opposite side of the field. There is about 1000% more passion on that side of the field; Sections 43, 44, 1 and 2 are almost all alumni. They love the team, and they love the games. I look around the area where I sit, and see a lot of people who had the same seats when Bo was coaching. There are some in the same seats from when Bump was coaching. It is a little quieter than some sections, but not like Sec. 24, and there is about 80% less standing, particularly above the handicapped seating mezzanine that was created two years ago.
I've actually heard that PSU fans, at least in person, aren't that bad unless they're students there, FWIW, though I haven't been there myself.
Nobody here is spitting out blog posts in their pajamas BTW haha. You don't need to subtly insult the people who disagree with you, unless it's one of the people going apeshit over everything you say, which is disappointing to see as well.
I'll follow suit with the guy that posted before me and say I respect your opinion minus the attempts at insulting me, GO BLUE!!!!
I do know that the OSU marching band will not go there, as a result of disgraceful treatment in the past, including urine-bombs from Nittany Lion "fans."
Charming. But that of course is not a basis on which to judge the entire Penn State program.
I care not so much how PSU fans beahve in their own God-forsaken corner of Pennsylvania.
I do have a serious concern about how those folks are treated in Michigan Stadium, having traveled a long way to get there. And, I am glad to say that among the many PSU fans I have spoken with, they all routinely say that Michigan Stadium is about the friendliest and most hospitable away-game spot in the Big Ten. Didn't stop us from beating them, either.
Some will say, "See? That's the problem! We're too 'soft' as fans."
I say, "Nonsense. What matters is that our team wins, and that we win with class. One really good way to win is to create a magnificent game-day experience, that attracts lots of good fans and big money, and not a mosh-pit like Camp Randall or Happy Valley."
We don't have to be a Camp Randall - see the post using Texas as an example of a great mix of classy and loud. We're kind of diverting from the original argument here, but since that really didn't seem to get far, it's probably a good thing. Texas fans typically respect other fans + are a loud bunch and seem like a good example given the many similarities between our programs.
The original argument was over the merits of responding to someone's saying "Down in front!" by saying, "Up in back!"
It seems to me that just about everybody agrees that "Up in back!" is inappropriate. Even if you are blocking the view of someone in the row or two rows behind whom you think is able to stand, and whom you think "should"(?!) stand, the inevitability is that there is someone else behind someone who is behind someone behind you who is not able to stand very well, or who is a child, or can't otherwise see, and you -- YOU -- are preventing them from seeing the game that they paid to see.
Forget donors. Forget alumni status. Just focus on simple consideration.
This just in: Bill Martin has released details of a plan to install mandatory seat belts specifically designed to prevent fans from standing during games.
Dude. Relax and give it up. Some people just want to stand and that is their right. Others may not like it but that's life.
Down in front = up in back, when either is used at the wrong time.
Can I tell you something about Camp Randall? I've been to about a half-dozen games there. I've been to a Wisconsin-S.D. State game (they are the Aztecs, right?); I was there for last year's UW-OSU game (the one where, when they played "Jump Around" after the third quarter, Malcolm Jenikins and the other Buckeye defenders were hysterically jumping around on their sidelines, and Beanie was jumping around in the huddle -- and OSU stuffed the Badgers in the second half) and I have been there of course for a bunch of Michigan games.
It is loud in Camp Randall. Louder, for Michigan games, than for just about any opponent that the Badgers schedule (they really hate us; some close games in the past always leave them feeling they are going to play well against Michigan). It is louder than Michigan Stadium. Part of it is the way the stadium is built. Part of it is their sound system. Part of it is that they really like to yell.
The students in Camp Randall, in their north and northeast sections, stand, and bounce around, the whole game. But there is NO tradition for standing up for the whole game in other parts of the stadium; they have club seating in some locations and they have temporary backs on a lot of their bleacher seats that make standing a bit awkward.
So this idea that you have to get up and stand in Michigan stadium to put our guys on an equal playing field with even the loudest stadia in the Big Ten is just so much talk.
New tradition maybe? Jump Around is younger than the youngest Michigan student.
stadium atmoshpere in An Arbor.
The one aspect that you don't address though is that is the largest stadium out of all of those, and by far the most quiet.
That is not a great thing. I grew up going to games there and it was not always like this, it used to be a lot louder, but we lost something along the way.
I honestly think we had too long a run of decent-to-good results that turned our fanbase soft.
For so many years, our team had high expectations at the start of the season and played to not lose, rather than win. My theory is that two decades of this turned many M fans into the type that go to the game, sit, and wait for something to happen, good or bad, to get them to do anything, cheer or groan. Passive.
I've been going to games since 1965 (when I was a little boy) and as a student and an alumnus, with season tickets in five different sections of the Stadium.
The stadium got louder during Bo's tenure, most particularly because the student section got a lot more intense then. The stadium, and the students, never got quieter. Still, I can remember it being quiet enough that you could clearly hear pads hitting. It has not gotten "quiet." As for any quietness in the past 24 months, there was The Horror, and then 2008. The fans have not gone "soft." And, I can assure you all, that 3-9 thing last year was an aberration in every way possible, including Bump's 1968 season. Last year is not a model, or an exemplar, of anything. It was in every way an outlier that any good statistician would disregard as being outside the mean.
One game sort of spoiled, and also defined, Michigan for about 30 years; the 1969 uspet of OSU. Before that game, we lost to Missouri that year, by about 40 points. That was quiet. Our team just needs to win. RR is doing that. We didn't lose any games last year because our fans were soft. We lost because of incompetent play on the field. Let's get back to winning, and putting on a classy show on Saturdays.
The stadium was louder in the 1970s than it has been recently. (Maybe the renovations will change that.) I don't know how you can suggest otherwise. We had a pretty raucous atmosphere back then, and not just in the student section. What's changed is 1) that tickets have become more expensive, pricing out some fans and 2) the average age of season-ticket holders has gone up considerably since then. In the '70s, we didn't sell out every game until 1976, and Canham had to market like crazy to convince people to come at first. That attracted a younger, rowdier fan. 35 years later, that same fan is still there, but doesn't have the energy or interest to make the same noise.
BTW, that Missouri game you mentioned was 1) not a sellout at all and 2) the single worst home loss Bo ever suffered (40-17). It's a bit of an outlier.
I think we took a worse physical beating, however, from Heisman-winner George Rogers and his South Carolina Gamecocks.
He was like a ninth grader playing against sixth graders.
He should not have been in college; he belonged in the Pro Bowl.
Your arrogance is absolutely astounding. And this is coming from someone who is arrogant.
"an atmosphere that was less commercial than practically any other big football progaram particularly less so than places like the SEC, and less so than Ohio Stadium"
Yup, that we are.
"an atmospehere that was somewhat quieter and more respectful than other closely comparable places like Camp Randall, South Bend and Happy Valley (never really "quiet"; the assembly of 110,000 people is never quiet)"
Why would we like to be quiet? Respectful is one thing, but quiet is an awful thing to be for college football. Were you the type of student that sat in the student section with your textbook so you could get in some reading when a timeout was called?
"an atmosphere devoid of such professional sports abominations like reocorded music,"
While no longer true, it is doubtful many opposing fans could point to this. I'm no fan of the new music, but it doesn't make or break the stadium.
"a generally lower level of unruly and outrageous behavior."
My word! Outrageous behavior at a college sporting event? Next thing you know the constable will allow the genders to spend time together outside of the bi-monthly dance.
"That's not a "lousy" reputation. That's a wonderful reputation. Unless of course you are a 24 year old male who has just consumed 11 beers. (That's a great donor base.)"
You really must have had a miserable in college. And uh, I'm a little bit younger than that, but you're right about the drinks.
In conclusion, lighten up. You want to be a smug dick to everyone in the stadium that isn't going to follow the rules you think are in place? Great. Go ahead and be that dick. But don't be surprised when someone challenges you by a simple act of standing up.
And have a nice day!
We really don't have to agree, or even converse, about general game-day aeshtetics. It doesn't matter.
The essential point of this thread was whether it is cool to respond to a "Down in front!" request by saying "Up in back!"?
The essential point behind "down in front!" is to say, "I am going to tell you to sit down without asking you, because I cannot see." The essential point behind "up in back!" is to say, "I am going to stand because I am cheering on a sporting team." Are the two at odds? Yes. Do the underlying ideas have to be? No.
If someone came over and politely asked, "would you please sit down, I cannot stand for long periods of time and cannot see," I'm willing to bet things would be quite different. However, your belief that somehow the "down in front" crowd is more respectful than the standing crowd is laughable. The very idea of "down in front" does not guarantee status, wealth, respect, or anything else so many of the fans that shout it seem to believe they possess.
And as for your attempts at taking the higher ground, might want to have explored that about -120 points ago.
"The essential point behind 'down in front!' is to say, 'I am going to tell you to sit down without asking you, because I cannot see.'"
After that, I think the sequence goes something like this;
First somebody asks "You," as the guy who own't sit down, again, nicely, to please sit down.
Then, four more people ask, somewhat more insistently.
Then, somebody goes to the Section ushers. Chances are only about 1 in 4 that the ushers will come; they are instructed to maintain their positions at the portals. They are trained to call A2 police for disputes in the stands.
Chances are nearly 100% that if the ushers are told that there is trouble in the Section and that the police are required, they WILL call, and the police WILL be there in about two minutes.
Then, with "you" as an obstreperous patron blocking other people's view, and with about 30 people behind "you" all complaining and pointing "you" out to the two or three police officers arriving on-scene, the chances that they will take you out are quite good. If they are called back a second time, because you are again doing it after a warning, it is a near-certainty that you will be listening to the end of the game on a transistor radio outside of the stadium.
This won't happen everywhere in the Stadium. It will happen in most places that I frequent.
Oh noes, the polices are coming for me! Lawdy! Somehow, in my many times in Michigan Stadium, I've managed to avoid being "taken out" by those notorious thugs, the Ann Arbor police. Maybe because I have only sat in the student section as a student and alum, and maybe because the fantasy section you live in where you are king of the blue hairs is really just a fantasy. Similar to the kind that made you wake up sticky back in 1968 with visions of Julie Andrews in your head.
But yes, I think you were absolutely correct to respond to my post about it being necessary to be polite in asking someone to sit down with a meandering scare post about how those that stand will inevitably find themselves on the wrong side of the law. Well done.
"...as a student and alum..."
Stay there, and we shouldn't have any problems. All we need to do is to figure out how to get you a student i.d. every year into your 30's and 40's.
You're on your own for scoring a ticket in Section 31.
Yeah, I mean, I know that you have to donate at least 10,000 dollars to get out of the student section these days. It's really a tough requirement, but I've heard it ensures that at least 60% of the stadium is quiet enough that you can actually hear the Ann Arbor Symphony Orchestra when those dang-blasted kids actually stop playing their foosball every so often.
Are you suggesting we build a highway in the Big House?
Could help with post-game exits, I guess.
That Darn Wolverine is BACK!
Maybe the oddest thing about this thread is Section 1's insinuation that ND fans are somehow a rowdy bunch.
If you're sitting in Sec 1, here's a tip.
Get up, turn behind you and throw your hands in the air, yell like absolute hell, belt out a thunderous LET'S GO DEFENSE!, turn around and continue to yell through the play like there's no tomorrow, and from my experiences I guarantee you 40 other foaming-at-the-mouth Wolverine fans will be there right with you.
You'll never hear a "down in front" when the whole section is on your side and you've done your job right.
And I endorse this message.
i don't think its fair to say people are bad fans for not standing the entire game. maybe the fourth quarter of a close game everyone should be up. I stand for about 85% of the game and my flat feet and lower back are killing me by the end. people who don't want to feel this way shouldn't. i think standing for "big plays" (3rd downs, etc.) only is very understandable. plus, i love jumping out of my seat when the ball is in the air on a deep ball.