Excerpt from Overtime (John U. Bacon book) on football team academics
Another excerpt is out--click here--from the new Bacon book, this one about Harbaugh's emphasis on academics. Lots in here to feel good about if you were among those on Harbaugh's side when (while coaching at Stanford) he controversially lamented having been steered away from majoring in history as a student here.
September 2nd, 2019 at 1:50 PM ^
As a Michigan grad and fan, I'm proud that we emphasize that these young men actually play school. While we are superior to THEEEEE ohio off the field, I sure as hell want to see us beat them on the field also.
September 2nd, 2019 at 1:56 PM ^
Wow. Amazing. Very proud. Harbaugh's first question every year if we are ahead of Stanford. How little people know him outside of Football
September 2nd, 2019 at 1:56 PM ^
Great read, but this was painful to discover:
Among the university’s 15,252 undergraduate males, only 531, or 3.4 percent, are African American.
I'd expected more from a public flagship university that has served as the centerpiece for broader undergraduate representation.
The Atlantic had a pretty well-researched article on the representation of minorities at elite institutions (including Michigan), and I didn't realize how much the efforts to create broader representation had plateaued: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/black-college-student-body/417189/
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:04 PM ^
Remember, Michigan tried to do something about this and was sued for admission policies. I’d say Michigan has every intention of a balance of diversity.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:23 PM ^
@Cope, for sure they're making an effort (the free tuition program is a great example of this). I suppose I would have thought it would have brought some more socioeconomic/racial diversity into the incoming classes.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^
It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. Trying to get more diversity isn't a bad thing, but right now the only way to do that at a place like Michigan is to admit based on race. Michigan got sued because they are the flagship school in the state and a large number of graduating seniors want to go there. Working your ass off to get in only to be denied because people with lower grades than you had the right minority standing is a hard pill to swallow. It is also discriminatory if you apply the same standard to everything, as you're hypothetically excluding more qualified people based on race.
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:08 PM ^
We have been excluding people based on race since the first European settlers arrived on this continent. It only became a problem when the people being excluded were white people who thing they have a god given right to go to the University of Michigan.
A public university should be a reflection of the, wait for it... public.
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:18 PM ^
Asians are significantly overrepresented in the student body. Is that also a problem?
Whites of European ancestry are actually underrepresented as a percentage of the student body. Problem here?
What about more women being admitted than men? Anything wrong with that?
Admission should be based on merit and nothing else
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^
This. But the most overrepresented group is lesbians on television. God damn every show has a lesbian now.
September 2nd, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^
Not sure what the problem is with that, but I will stay tuned.
September 3rd, 2019 at 2:45 AM ^
I would guess that they are also overrepresented at UM, also.
September 3rd, 2019 at 5:36 PM ^
Assuming the merit system is unbiased to begin with. Which duh, it's not.
September 3rd, 2019 at 5:37 PM ^
Aaaahh the old all lives matter argument. Brilliant!
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
Ok got it, you are for quotas. Go convince the court system to agree with you.
September 2nd, 2019 at 4:47 PM ^
Helllllll no. I ain't complaining! If the markets demands lesbians then we should get lesbians. I'm just saying they're over representated. If an alien came to earth they'd think a quarter of the population is lesbian.
September 3rd, 2019 at 6:01 AM ^
A public university should be a reflection of the, wait for it... public.
U-M tried to do that with its admissions policies and then Michigan voters struck race-based affirmative action down. I'm not sure why some in this thread are faulting the University for that.
Regardless, African Americans - particularly males - are underrepresented at elite universities in general, not just at Michigan. That points to deeper societal and educational (K-12) issues than just university admissions.
September 3rd, 2019 at 5:34 PM ^
Bingo! That denial still runs deep though, hence the downvotes you received and the "plateau." Damn shame. Have any of these highly educated dummies ever stopped to think that maybe university standards that existed in the friggin aughts are at best outdated, or at worst, culturally biased to begin with? Of course not.
That would require real introspection. If the high school that I attend has shitty teachers and shitty books and a shitty environment largely due to white flight and bigoted attitudes by the same people that made sure black people stayed in these terrible places, how are grades and test scores that generally measure ones aptitude on shit from your world, an accurate representation of how smart I am or how well I'll do at an elite university? They're not.
This is why policies must be put in place to make sure the playing field is close to level, because most of you wont give a damn or will make up some tired excuse as to why you're now the victims. Notice I said close to level. If that. Get a clue.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
Preach it brother. Totally agreed
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:12 PM ^
Years ago I read a story about a guy who was admitted to Harvard through affirmative action. He said he ultimately didn't graduate at the top or bottom of his class. He proved he could do the work just like the other students who either had higher test scores or were legacy admits.
He wouldn't have gotten the chance if he had been denied admission. I fully understand why affirmative action pisses people off. No one one wants to find out that life sucks.
September 3rd, 2019 at 2:48 AM ^
As a minority admission, how much free access did he get to special service, tutoring, etc that allowed him to graduate, that other students didn't get?
September 3rd, 2019 at 2:49 AM ^
As a minority admission, how much free access did he get to special service, tutoring, etc that allowed him to graduate, that other students didn't get?
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:08 PM ^
Socio economic status makes a huge difference. I know many try to create scholarships in the community and some succeed.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^
I don't think race should be disclosed in the application process. Choose the best kids, period. If only 3.4% are black, then so be it. Admitting someone because they are a particular race just to meet some quota or because you're assuming they came from low SES background (which is inherently racist) doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of other schools in the state students can go to and do just as well at
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
Choose the best kids, period.
Would you mind defining "best", please?
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:41 PM ^
My 1/4 Asian kids, white boy ...... or black, or a girl, or I don’t give a shit. My kids are the best
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:46 PM ^
Most qualified on paper- GPA, ACT/SAT
Sports, research, outside interests, whatever...anything but race.
September 2nd, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
All of which are determinants with race, class, and economic influencers that disproportionately exclude African-Americans. But please keep telling us how race doesn’t matter.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:37 PM ^
Somehow this turned into race and that is on you. We are talking about socioeconomic status and not race. Stop.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:46 PM ^
“Among the university’s 15,252 undergraduate males, only 531, or 3.4 percent, are African American.”
Actually, he was replying to a poster who mentioned race. You twisted it into socioeconomic status, thus proving his point.
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:20 PM ^
The underlying problem is not always race and it is socioeconomic status. Taking his statement literally turns this into race. I didn't articulate correctly but I stand by my point.
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:39 PM ^
No, learning how to read the post I'm replying to turns this into race. You're just applying the label of socioeconomic status because you're uncomfortable talking about race, while you imply that race correlates with socioeconomic status
September 2nd, 2019 at 4:25 PM ^
I am uncomfortable talking about race on this site because it turns into a shitshow. But I still don't think the original author had that in mind. May be I am wrong and I am fine with it
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:28 PM ^
Does Michigan admit students like a golf tournament where the highest get in and everybody else is out or are there white students with higher test scores being denied over white students with lower test scores?
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:35 PM ^
Dunno. But I can tell you it's much harder to get in than it was in 1994. My kid worked her ass off in HS; way harder than I ever did.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
I don't agree. Michigan's student population is highly diverse. Affirmative action is just a bad idea.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:24 PM ^
Michigan's student population is highly diverse.
Do you have evidence to support this?
Affirmative action is just a bad idea.
I didn't say anything about affirmative action. And you're assuming that's the only solution to create greater representation in a student body. There are myriad options to encourage it.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:56 PM ^
And you're assuming I need my classroom to be a rainbow full of all races to get a diverse education. Why not have students perform fieldwork in other communities as a way to learn about other cultures?
September 2nd, 2019 at 4:38 PM ^
Diversity for the sake of diversity isn't entirely the point. It's whether or not underrepresented groups - whether socio-economic, racial, etc. are basically presented with an opportunity to grow and thrive in an environment that has been constructed, and mostly dominated by, people with above-average means that still generally control those institutions for their own benefit.
I'll give a more specific example: I worked for a fairly respectable consulting firm after grad school. The number of new hires we took from various graduate schools was disproportionately skewed toward Ivy League schools (e.g. they hired 3x more consultants out of Harvard Business School than any other program). It didn't matter whether they had good grades (most had non-disclosure policies); what mattered was whether they had the Harvard name on their application.
What we also discovered was that the feeder programs to places like HBS were also Ivy League schools.
So. Someone gets a better shake at a well-paying job at age 28 because they had a great SAT score at age 16, and what happened in between was generally irrelevant.
That's called privilege. It exists at Michigan too - and whether you slice it by race or socioeconomic status, believing there is pure equity in opportunity would be a stretch.
September 2nd, 2019 at 5:08 PM ^
I see your point but don't think it's that cut and dry. I know several examples of students attending small public, unranked schools getting into top ranked grad schools (MBA and Medicine to be specific). I know Oakland has a good record of doing such a thing.
McKinsey, BCG, and Bain recruit at the top ~20 MBA schools, you definitely do not need to be at a prestigious undergrad institution to get in. And you can also work at say, a tier 2 firm before working at a tier 1 firm if that's someone's goal.
September 2nd, 2019 at 6:04 PM ^
McKinsey, BCG, and Bain recruit at the top ~20 MBA schools, you definitely do not need to be at a prestigious undergrad institution to get in.
That's the point, though. Equity acknowledges that there will be the occasional needle in a haystack that gets a shot, but the point is that it no longer becomes an anomaly.
I'll disclose that I worked for one of those firms. In my start class of ~50 new hires, two came from non-prestigious programs (e.g. ranked outside the top twenty).
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:24 PM ^
African Americans as a group don't do as well academically. I don't think lowering the bar for that group does anything to help and seems more racist to me because it implies they can't get in unless the bar is lowered for them. This isn't true. There is a reason or combination of reasons why they don't score as well and it's not because they have too much melanin in their skin. The University should try to address the problem itself if possible rather than lowering the bar. Unfortunately I suspect it's socio economic and cultural and racism likely plays some role. If I had to guess I'd say the fact that 72 percent of African American kids being born out of wedlock has a lot to do with it. I don't know any studies, but I'd say kids of any have who have a mother and father in the house are probably way more likely to do well academically. This is why succeeded despite single mom working 3 jobs story is so inspirational. Some say poverty causes crime and out of wedlock marriages, but it seems like crime and less income earners in the house would be the cause of poverty, not the other way around. Idk if we have the answers right now. Don't Universities have geeky people who can do studies and figure this shit out?
September 2nd, 2019 at 3:57 PM ^
There have been some studies done. I remember one about 5-7 years ago that stuck with me. They were looking at peer pressure in relation to grades from various cultures. The main points that the article highlighted were about Asian and African American culture. Asian students were likely to peer pressure their friends into getting better grades. If one was failing, they would pick him/her up so to speak. African American culture was the opposite. A kid getting good grades would be picked on and pressured to do worse. Granted the statistics this was based on are probably over a decade old now. I don't know if this still applies. How do you combat that though? The schools can't make kids try, just as much as they can't make kids even show up. Truancy laws are basically for show and if applied as written are decried as racist, rightly or wrongly.
There have also been studies done about children in single parent families vs two parent families, like you were stating. They confirmed your belief. Same thing with socioeconomic status. It has been found that poor people of any race don't care about school as much. It creates a vicious cycle. As with most things in life, it all starts at home. Your parents or guardians emphasize school, you are more likely to graduate and attend some sort of higher education. Unfortunately we don't legislate this way, so it never really gets addressed.
September 2nd, 2019 at 4:47 PM ^
It really is a vicious cycle, and there have been attempts to try and create more standardized efforts to raise the academic performance of poor kids.
Unfortunately, the powers that be (sorry, gonna get political here) are pushing for more freedom in school choice rather than solve issues like, oh, minimum wage, out-of-school parental support. Michigan is the absolute worst, with its no-cap charter programs.
It should be no surprise that, as the minimum wage has not grown with inflation, parental support for lower-income kids has declined - and so has their academic performance. That's why wealthy kids have a stronger and stronger leg up. Meanwhile, most of the teachers in lower-income districts flame out faster because they have to serve as both teacher and caretaker due to parental unavailability.
September 2nd, 2019 at 5:23 PM ^
Minimum wage that is too high causes jobs to go bye bye.
September 2nd, 2019 at 6:06 PM ^
Let's just let the wage gap between executives and minimum wage workers continue to grow. That'll do the trick.
September 2nd, 2019 at 7:09 PM ^
So what are everyone’s religion-based thoughts on abortion in this politically charged climate we are living?
September 2nd, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
Did anyone think that maybe the university admitted 1,500+ (over a 4 year period) African-American males, but only 531 accepted? Many people who apply to Michigan also apply and get accepted at other highly regarded universities. Not everyone chooses Michigan even if they are accepted.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:04 PM ^
When the pundits talk about Harbaugh being on the hot seat, or being a failure as a head coach, or losing support from the Michigan "faithful," they should know this: Harbaugh combines football and academic success as well as or better than any college coach in America. And we are talking COLLEGE football. And we are talking Michigan, the finest public university anywhere.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:40 PM ^
So true. When you see things like this and consider everything, it's actually hilarious to see national folks act like his seat is on fire.
September 2nd, 2019 at 2:40 PM ^
No question, Harbaugh's off the field endeavors are exemplary for our student athletes.
Now, it is time to Win the Big Ten Football Championship.
He is after all our Football Coach.
Go Blue.