Cade v JJ CSU using Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria
On the Jansen podcast where Harbaugh announced the QB plan for the first two games, Coach was asked how he would evaluate the QBs. He said how he always does:
1. As a passer - accuracy, timing, etc.
2. Playmaker - make play from nothing, runner, etc.
3. Field general - move the team. Points per drive
He also gave 4 metrics
A. Points per drive. (Most important)
B. 3rd down efficiency
C. Red zone efficiency
D. 2 minute efficiency
Obviously, with JJ still to get his start, it’s not a completely fair comparison, and we don’t get to see practice or practice numbers. But let’s look at Harbaugh’s eval criteria for Saturday’s game.
I would give all 3 of the qualities of a QB to JJ in this game. In practice, Harbaugh gave the passer edge to Cade, the playmaker to JJ and the field general with slight edge to Cade.
The metrics: Cade JJ
Points/drive 23/7 = 3.3 14/2 = 7
3rd down eff 1/7 = 14% 1/1 = 100%
Red zone eff 1/4 = 25% 2/2 = 100%
2 min eff 3. N/A
Red zone eff I used simple TD per opportunity
2 min eff is points per opportunity
Sample size disparities are apparent and there will be more clarity after Hawaii. It will be interesting to revisit Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria and metrics after game two.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:19 PM ^
I've been a big Cade supporter but the writing is on the wall now. He doesn't look like an improved QB from last year. He rushed too many throws yesterday, he can't improvise when a play breaks down and he adds nothing in the running game. Hopefully he stays for at least two more years, collects a nice NIL ransom and maybe plays the hero a couple of times in a backup role. He's a great leader and hopefully goes out like one.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:24 PM ^
If he loses the starting job, the chances are very, very low that he will return next season.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:28 PM ^
I think that's the case for either.
This is why Harbaugh is having this dual start contest.
Whomever is the starter into Big Ten play, is the starter for next year, the other will transfer portal - as either could be a starter at 75 other programs.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:35 PM ^
More than 75.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:54 PM ^
It's whoever, not whomever. Not trying to be a dick and not sure why I felt like being the grammar police. Just feels like mgoblog needs me to state it lol. Have to add value somehow!
September 4th, 2022 at 6:01 PM ^
"Not trying to be a ...." = being whatever you said your weren't.
I don't think I'm adding any value, but the board might need me to say it.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:35 PM ^
Wow a tongue in cheek comment eliciting neg votes and extra snark. Yea, def not adding value from either of us. A joking tone and playful banter and everyone is up and arms. Hope you guys never rib your friends either.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:47 PM ^
It's up "in" arms ...
September 4th, 2022 at 9:04 PM ^
For sure it is, typing fast on my phone and autocorrect fixed my typo in a way not intended. my frenzy lol. Up and arms makes no sense.
+1 to you and irony not lost on me!
September 4th, 2022 at 6:43 PM ^
With all of the lord of the flies/comment lynchings that go on here sometimes, a grammar correction will help?
September 4th, 2022 at 7:42 PM ^
This is a Michigan blog, felt apropos. You prefer name calling and lord of the flies to respectful and jovial call outs?
September 4th, 2022 at 10:58 PM ^
a little much, don't you think? not too many sports blogs with grammar police on them....for good reason
September 4th, 2022 at 11:37 PM ^
I thought it was a fine, light comment, especially for mgoblog. Did not feel like it was a little much, and there are plenty worse comments on any blog than what I said...maybe you are overreacting? Either way, I have nothing but love for you and this community. How is that for tough love ❤️
September 4th, 2022 at 4:45 PM ^
The argument to stay is that he can collect NIL money at Michigan, and likely start in 2024 after JJ leaves early for the NFL. I realize he'll probably leave but there is a decent argument to stay.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:09 PM ^
OTOH, he 1) is already a senior in school so he may graduate soon ; 2) can make NIL money elsewhere, too; and 3) is not guaranteed of anything, as this season demonstrates.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:09 PM ^
He’s already graduated. Saw the IG pics last Spring.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:33 AM ^
He's got two years of eligibility left after this season. How he wants to spend those years is the big question.
He'll have his UM degree, but if he just loves the program so much that he'll happily spend those two years holding a clipboard and seeing action in garbage time, fine. Speaking as a fan, it will be nice to have one of the best-qualified back-ups in college football.
But if he wants to be the good soldier for the rest of the season and then hit the portal the day after the last game, I wouldn't blame him at all. Take your degree, and your first-class resume entry (starting QB on the B1G champs and the best team that UM has seen in 20 years), and find a place where you have a chance to play. I would imagine there will be suitors.
Those two years might be the last two years of football he'll have a chance to play. Don't spend them standing on the sidelines.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^
No shot.
The only way he stays, IMO, is he earns the job back at the end of the year.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:48 PM ^
The argument against it is that he can also earn NIL money at another school and increase his earnings by having exposure as a starter at that other school and not have to wait until 2024 to do it.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:23 PM ^
If McCarthy starts the rest of this season...Cade is very likely gone.
September 5th, 2022 at 12:27 AM ^
I agree. Zero is very, very low.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:26 PM ^
He is too competitive to ride it out and he probably shouldn’t - he could easily start for at least half the big ten and many power 5 schools. He’s good not great qb who takes care of the football and surrounded by talent can win a lot Of games. I’m sure we could make it to OSU with one or no losses with either guy. But JJ was going to be hard to hold off this year and as much as I like Cade, Saturday didn’t help his case
September 4th, 2022 at 4:31 PM ^
Imagine Cade at Iowa. Would be a huge upgrade at QB. And with the D that Iowa typically has, they could actually contend for B1G title.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:02 PM ^
You’re thinking of historic Iowa, not how a Iowa is built right now. Cade needs a good running game, OL and targets at WR to succeed. None of which is available to him at Iowa. Wisconsin would be a much better place for him.
Cade can’t create on his own. So playing behind a poor OL without a good running game to take pressure off of him isn’t remotely threatening.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:36 PM ^
Or worse, what if he was at Wisconsin, with that defense and running game?
September 4th, 2022 at 4:33 PM ^
To underline the “should leave” to whoever loses this job, big $$ are at stake.
You don’t develop anywhere near as much nor do you get anywhere near the exposure as a back-up. If a player’s goal is to make it to the NFL, he owes it to himself to get the best development and exposure as a player he can. We all went/go to college to prepare for our careers as best we can. If the school we chose isn’t doing that, we leave. There are other criteria of course, but preparation for our careers should be near the top.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:07 PM ^
The only flaw in your argument is that Cade is an NFL qb. I don't think he is.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^
I think he is a NFL QB but as a backup, with possibility to be a starter.
September 5th, 2022 at 12:29 AM ^
Undersized, under armed and with little mobility. Maybe he makes it to the beginning of a camp because of the need for extra arms at that stage, but that’s about it.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
But he probably thinks he is or at least thinks he has a shot. He owes it to himself to try. There’s a very limited window to see if it can happen.
September 5th, 2022 at 12:30 AM ^
This. He’s a starting QB at a P5 school. He has to believe he is going to be in the NFL and has to maximize those odds. His odds of getting drafted or signed are much higher as the starting QB at 8-4 Iowa than they are as the backup at 10-2 UM.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:08 PM ^
I agree and it's a shame that being too competitive means you quit and look for an easier competition.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:14 PM ^
If you failed to get a promotion at work, and another company offered you said promotion, is it "taking the easy way out" to join them?
Ambition isn't a character flaw. It's easy for us as fans to demand these guys stay at Michigan forever, but they have their own lives to think about.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:48 PM ^
Troy Aikman, Vince Ferragamo, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Russell Wilson, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Jeff George, Cam Newton, Jake Rudock, Joe Burrow, Quinn Ewers, and Caleb Williams were/are transfers.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:55 PM ^
Ewers and Williams haven't done ANYTHING yet. Why are they on this list?
September 4th, 2022 at 7:52 PM ^
I think because they’re transfers
September 4th, 2022 at 7:59 PM ^
I think we both know the point being made was that those transfers ended up well, considering they were or are NFL players. The other two do not fit as they haven't accomplished anything in either college or the NFL. But if I am wrong, and that wasn't the point, then disregard.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:56 PM ^
If Cade leaves, we have some solid back-ups to fill in as needed next year.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:22 PM ^
And because they played QB in college.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:38 PM ^
He’s not quitting. Only one person can play quarterback at a time. JJ being better doesn’t mean that Cade is bad or can’t play QB. If he thinks he’s a starter why wouldn’t he go play elsewhere?
September 4th, 2022 at 5:31 PM ^
The metrics of a two game non-conference schedule will not decide this starting qb competition. Clearly, McNamara feels threatened by McCarty's challenge but McNamara deserves any benefit of the doubt based on past performance. And this competition doesn't end against the likes of Colorado State and Hawaii.
As a Michigan fan who has lived through many starting qb competitions, fans will always favor the McCarthy's of the world. Just like Henson was always fan-favored over Brady, even if Brady was always the best quarterback. It's the same case, the same metrics and the same argument. I likem both, Lloyd would always say when asked why he couldn't separate the two and continually ran them out as a chemistry experiment in team competition.
Harbaugh is in the same boat as Carr. He's got two starting abs who haven't separated themselves, and one who has actually taken him to the Big Ten promised land that a kid with more promise than delivery is threatening but hasn't proven he will. Does it matter which one of them plays more snaps than the other if they both help crush Hawaii? Will that be the performance that decides their fate going forward? I don't think so. And it doesn't matter, because both will be needed to play this season regardless of who starts.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:58 PM ^
Except in this case, Cade isn't the better QB. JJ is, and they both won't be playing all season if JJ gets the job.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:33 PM ^
Come on. No one knew how great Brady was while he was battling Henson. We're basing that on Brady in the NFL. Henson was absolutely the fan favorite, like JJ. I'm in the JJ camp at this point, but I don't pretend to be clairvoyant enough to know for sure. If Harbaugh truly is uncertain, as he claims to be... Cade may prove us wrong. Be humble enough to admit that at this point.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:01 PM ^
Nobody is pretending to be clairvoyant. JJ outperformed Cade. This isn't that complicated. JJ is an elite talent at QB. Cade is not.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:18 PM ^
JJ threw 4 balls (none downfield) and ran 3 times never up by less than 30 points to CSU. Cade didn’t perform particularly well, but I think JJ’s grade has to be “incomplete”.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:03 AM ^
+1, because it's very much like what I said in the snowflakes thread. JJ looked good, and his run was a thing of beauty. But he came in when UM was ahead at home against an overmatched opponent. He's certainly the better athlete, and maybe he will be the better QB. But how about we see how he does in a fair fight before we hand him the keys and stick Cade in the backseat?
And if these first 2-3 games are a test, then let's wait before the test is complete before we grade it.
September 5th, 2022 at 4:53 AM ^
Many said the same about Brady back in the day. I believe Tom Brady still owns the slowest sprint time for a QB at the combine, but he's got a rare arm and great brain.
He's absolutely not Tom Brady, but I think Cade has some of the same qualities. He didn't play a very good game last weekend, but he's clearly a leader that the team respects. He's obviously feeling the heat and I think that showed a little on Saturday as well.
Let's see how JJ looks UTLs next week. Let's hope that they continue to push each other. Injury to a QB is highly likely (several in the last few years), so I'd like to keep both as long as possible.
September 6th, 2022 at 11:25 AM ^
Cade may have similar 'Game Manager' qualites to Brady, but I don't think they compare really well in arm talent. Brady isn't throwing as hard as Rogers, but he was no slouch in his younger days.
September 4th, 2022 at 10:46 PM ^
The reason he doesn't start now is because he still lacks the discipline of an every down qb. I mean I get that he's more talented and versatile in certain game situations. But can he manage the game, make the big play without making the big mistake as he did against MSU last year? That's the reason he isn't already ahead of McNamara regardless of your assessment. And whether you want that outcome or not, you still need both guys because nothing is guaranteed health wise.
September 4th, 2022 at 11:19 PM ^
Are you taking about the fumble at msu? Because JH said that was on Corum, not JJ