Big Ten vs. Pac Ten

Submitted by WolvinLA on

Since I live in LA, I get a lot of people telling me how bad the Big Ten is (mostly noting OSU's NC game blunders, and The Horror) and how we don't stack up against the Pac Ten.  I know they are wrong, but I don't have enough ammo to back this up.  Rose Bowl records are bad, since the Big Ten often fairs poorly.  Does anyone have anything solid I can use to tell the west coast pricks in my office how wrong they are?

 Greatly appreciated.

MGoBoard

a2boy

August 7th, 2008 at 12:01 AM ^

I wish I knew, I feel your left coast pain, I get the same thing in PDX especially after the punishment from Oregon last year. We’ve got to win (period). And the Suckeyes are probably going to get run over next month, which will do nothing for the BIG 10.

Joined: 08/02/2008

MGoPoints: 16

spartyNO

August 7th, 2008 at 1:45 AM ^

I don't think there's any to be found. The Pac-10 has owned the Big-Ten in this decade. The Big Ten's last Rose Bowl win was Wisconsin in 2000, which is pretty bad. The next year Washington handled Purdue pretty easily. USC abused Iowa in the Orange Bowl in 2003. Michigan lost to UCLA and Oregon in 2001 and 2004 if I recall correctly. Then we were obliterated by USC, USC, and Oregon (was our last win over the Pac-10 against Wash. St?). Then Illinois was ruined (who obviously shouldn't have been there, but whatever). I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of other debacles as well. I hate Ohio State, but I think I might actually root for them against SC now that I think about it. Wells is a monster and that defense is sick, so I think they can do it. And the whole country will be on Michigan's side if Ohio State is undefeated and primed for another MNC run going into "the game".

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 5

colin

August 7th, 2008 at 7:21 AM ^

you'd have to take a shitload of time, but there'd be no point really since anyone who makes OMG X SUCKS arguments are either kidding or retarded.

Joined: 07/01/2008

MGoPoints: 1472

spartyNO

August 7th, 2008 at 1:53 PM ^

Completely forgot about that game, damn. Didn't we play Washington the year before and lose though? I could've sworn we did, but I'm to lazy to look it up.

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 5

hat

August 8th, 2008 at 3:26 PM ^

Actually, what killed us was a blocked FG when we were up by six.  It was returned for a TD - a 10-point swing.  The INT (which bounced off Walker's hands IIRC) came right after that.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 15

WolvinLA

August 7th, 2008 at 2:12 PM ^

Well, the argument was less about how the two conferences have done head to head as it was about which conference is better, overall. Head to head there has been little to go by (outside of the Rose Bowl, obviously, which is pretty lopsided). The way I see it, USC has been sick the last few years, but so has OSU. I don't think the Pac ten has another team who has been as consistent as Michigan has, and we've gotted screwed a couple of those Rose bowls since it was often the #1 pac ten team (USC) against the #2 big ten team (us or illinois). If you went down the line and pinned the PT #1 vs the BT #1 and so on, I think we would dominate.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 875

spartyNO

August 7th, 2008 at 2:51 PM ^

You do have a point.  That USC team in 2003 should have been in the national championship and not the Rose Bowl.  OSU should've been in the Rose Bowl last year.  I don't know what to make of 2006.  Our defense was sweet on paper.  Woodley, Branch, Harris, Burgess, Hall.  I can accept a three point loss to a great OSU team, even if that defense was ripped up pretty good.  Getting torched by Dwayne Jarret was just sad.  I guess it was a paper tiger.

Oh, and we need to meet up with Oregon again.  That game could have been two or three touchdowns worse.  Smacking them up in a Rose Bowl would be ideal, but a home-and-home is probably more likely.

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 5

mjv

August 7th, 2008 at 10:18 PM ^

Not only was their a pick six on a swing pass (I seem to recall that the pass was tipped by the running back and the deflection was taken back. But there was also a blocked FG attempt near the end of the game that was taken back for a TD. We lost 23-18, and gave up 17 points in the 4th quarter. I remember watching that game and thinking that we had it in the bag, and then just...

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 3656

chitownblue (not verified)

August 7th, 2008 at 11:52 PM ^

Be fair. That wasn't a dump off - it was a pass that bounced right off the receiver's hands and to the DB.

Joined: 12/12/2017

MGoPoints: 0

Md23Rewls

August 8th, 2008 at 9:44 AM ^

I doubt the video is anywhere on the internet at this point, but I remember it being an easy pass that Navarre threw as hard as he could for some reason. The reciever (apparently Perry) should have caught it, but I think Navarre should have put more touch on it.

Joined: 07/01/2008

MGoPoints: 872

mjv

August 8th, 2008 at 1:19 AM ^

Chitown, my recollection of the play was that it didn't seem to be Navarre's fault, rather the RB's (was it Perry?). The throw seemed to be a bit high (above the shoulder pads instead of chest high), but certainly catchable.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 3656

chitownblue (not verified)

August 8th, 2008 at 8:12 AM ^

Again, we're going off a memory from awhile ago, but I remember thinking Navarre may have thrown the ball way too hard. That said, it did hit whoever it was in the hands. So yeah - I think I remember screaming about Navarre at the time, because he had, as a whole, played pretty miserably that day - but I'm not sure that single play was his fault.

Joined: 12/12/2017

MGoPoints: 0

chitownblue (not verified)

August 8th, 2008 at 8:14 AM ^

OK, so Walker, not a RB. I don't know. But your recollection seems to dovetail with mine.

Joined: 12/12/2017

MGoPoints: 0

wildbackdunesman

August 8th, 2008 at 8:16 AM ^

Historically, the BigTen has a winning record against every single conference. However, the Pac10 is the conference that is closest to .500 against us. The BigTen is 268-253-13 against the Pac10. Lately it has been mostly Pac10, especially any game played on the west coast.

Joined: 07/16/2008

MGoPoints: 30273

chitownblue (not verified)

August 8th, 2008 at 8:30 AM ^

Mystery solved:

Go here: http://gohuskies.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/090801aaa.html

The ball bounced off Chris Perry's hands. The amazing thing is the same dude that picked that off and scored (Lowe) is the same guy that blocked the FG that was returned for a TD. Carr was so pissed that game, I've never seen him say "We beat ourselves", but he was right.

You look at that season, that had to be the season filled with the most agonizing losses:

-5 point loss to Washington in which they get 14 points from a blocked FG for a TD and a deflected pass for a TD.

-"Sparty Bob" game with the mystery second left on the clock (not to mention LeSeur's boneheaded move on Rogers)

-The loss to unranked OSU, when we fell behind lots, came back, and has Walker drop the game-winner in the endzone.

The bowl game was a straight up ass-kicking. I still have nightmares of watching Cato June get consistently outrun by Jason Witten. First time I've seen a TE do that to a DB. No wonder he became an NFL linebacker.

Joined: 12/12/2017

MGoPoints: 0

dex

August 8th, 2008 at 10:38 AM ^

UT-UM was just agonizing.

Although, IIRC, wasn't UT going to go to the Title game if they had won the SEC Championship? So losing wasn't so bad...but the way it happened...ouch. 

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 1934

mjv

August 8th, 2008 at 9:41 AM ^

I thought that the Washington TDs were later in the game (obviously I'm wrong). That Washington site linked to has a banner that is straight out of the yvgeni/Jason Minor photoshop. Apparently MGoBlog is on the cutting edge of visual design as well as blogging...

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 3656

mjv

August 8th, 2008 at 11:10 AM ^

Dex, I recall that they choked in the SEC title game and had they won they were playing for the MNC. Yeah they were good. But our insistence at trying to run between the tackles and just the way they kicked our ass all over the field was disturbing. I seem to recall a quote from a UT player that basically said after we went three and out on our first drive by trying to plug away between the tackles, they knew they were going to win.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 3656

Desert Blue

August 8th, 2008 at 2:38 PM ^

but also a die-hard U-M/Big Ten guy, I can't believe we're even having this discussion. The Pac-10 has owned the Big Ten in just about everything recently.

Joined: 07/14/2008

MGoPoints: 2

MichiganManFro…

August 13th, 2008 at 3:24 AM ^

Yes the pac-10 kills the big ten in the rose bowl. But the rose bowl is in Pasadena every year. I would love to see the pac-10 teams come play us in our back yard. I think it would be a completly different story.

Joined: 08/13/2008

MGoPoints: 14

Desert Blue

August 8th, 2008 at 3:21 PM ^

"Rose Bowl records are bad" data to go by? What else should we use then? The Cal-MSU series? You can't throw out the reason why the Pac-10 stomps the Big Ten in important games for reasons you're looking for to prove one conference is better. I know you're looking for overall data, but you can't pick and choose your samples. It's like an OSU fan trying to prove they are better than LSU "if you just took out that one time we played with something on the line and got smoked." Yay, myopia.

Joined: 07/14/2008

MGoPoints: 2

WolvinLA

August 11th, 2008 at 2:40 PM ^

Rose Bowl records are bad because I'm looking for info in my defense.  I need stuff to defend myself when they bring up the bowl records.  I don't need evidence in favor of the Pac Ten, I get that everyday.  I'm looking for evidence in favor of the Big Ten, which, apparently, there is none.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 875

hat

August 8th, 2008 at 3:34 PM ^

I don't think Navarre got all that much flak for that game. The INT was just a tough break. It was Epstein who was vilified the most, for the blocked FG. I've got to say, while he had a phenominally strong leg, he had an awful tendency to miss important kicks. He had an apparent game-winner blocked at the end of the 2000 Orange Bowl, missed two 4th-quarter FGs at UCLA in 2000 (a game we lost by three points), had the block against UW, and missed one against OSU in 2001.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 15

Desert Blue

August 12th, 2008 at 11:41 AM ^

The Pac-10 pretty much is across the board better than the Big Ten (and most, if not all) conferences in every sport. Traditionally everyone thinks of the Pac-10 as being weak in football, but since it clearly owns the Big Ten (the Black Shoe Diaries post pretty much puts the exclamation point on that fact), there isn't really an argument.

Joined: 07/14/2008

MGoPoints: 2