"All time" rushing TD leaders
Each week we hear how Corum is moving up the ranks of all time rushing TD leader, having just this week surpassed Mike Hart. He now has Anthony Thomas (55) in his sites.
However, as we all know, Willie Heston had 72 rushing touchdowns, playing on Yost's teams at the turn of the century.
What I do not understand is what the delimiter is.. did they reset the "record books" in 1906 when they legalized the forward pass? Did they start at the inception of a conference? Some other ambiguous date?
Do they only discuss Thomas's record as its possible it could be broken, while Heston's is more or less unbreakable?
Will
October 16th, 2023 at 7:56 PM ^
Football started in 2008 according to the freep.
October 16th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
U of M football started in 1969 under Bo (LOL)
October 16th, 2023 at 8:20 PM ^
You want to pretend that Yost, Crisler et al. never coached here?
That's all you man.
October 16th, 2023 at 9:27 PM ^
Bennie Oosterbaan. A personal favorite.
October 16th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
Stats in the NCAA were not official until 1937, but not sure if that should matter as I found out when researching Corum's chase for the record. Michigan counts bowl game stats prior to 2002 and the NCAA began counting them in 2002.
October 16th, 2023 at 8:05 PM ^
So 1937 is the official cutoff?
The question was asked seriously as I googled long enough not to find an answer. The official website has numerous references to our 11 national championships, which includes the 1902 season.. so the disparity was unclear to me.
October 16th, 2023 at 8:14 PM ^
I looked at the official NCAA media PDF from 2020 which has this listed
From 1937, when official national statistics rankings began, through 1969, individual rankings were by totals. Beginning in 1970, most season individual rankings were by per-game averages. In total offense, rushing and scoring, it is yards or points per game; in receiving, catches per game and yards per game; in interceptions, catches per game; and in punt and kickoff returns, yards per return.
There is also this which also shows 1937 as the first year. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/Policies.pdf
October 16th, 2023 at 8:30 PM ^
The recognition of national championships is likely independent of the counting of individual statistics, which is much harder to keep track of without an official recording.
October 17th, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
In my old Communist Football Almanack, I explained the pre-1937 vs. post-1937 discrepancies:
- The record books are murky from 1869 to 1937. Something to keep in mind is that the record books don't actually go back that far in time. At the national level, official statistics have only been recorded since 1937: a mere 52 percent of college football's history. Indeed, the first rules for compiling football statistics were formulated prior to the 1941 season by an NCAA committee headed by Fielding Yost. (College football has been around since 1869.) One has to assume that Yost's point-a-minute teams would have harbored some record-producing players, though the game was quite different then, as noted above. So, to be as precise as possible, we should describe all of these records as modern-era, postwar records.
- Post-1978 records are for Division I-A only. Let me note that all the records here are for Division I-A (FBS), but do include all Division I records prior to the I-A / I-AA split in 1978. I don't really care about who did what in the other divisions, given the inferior level of competition. Personally, I would prefer to eliminate the non-automatically qualifying BCS conferences, but since the NCAA doesn't do that, I won't.
- Post-1996 overtime and pre-1912 scoring rules skew historical comparisons. The NCAA introduced overtime to I-A football in 1996, and soon after determined that points and yards gained in overtime would count toward NCAA records. Given that teams and players did not have the benefit of overtime prior to 1996, I try wherever possible to exclude overtime stats (or at least give both sets of numbers). The modern convention of TDs worth 6 points (+1 PAT) and FGs worth 3 began in 1912. From 1869 to 1882, touchdowns, extra points, and field goals were all worth one point each. From 1882-1883, TDs were worth 2, PATs 4, and FGs 5; from 1884-1897, TDs 4, PATs 2, FGs 5; from 1898-1903, TDs 5, PATs 1, FGs 5; from 1904-1908, TDs 5, PATs 1, FGs 4; from 1901-1911, TDs 5, PATs 1, FGs 3. The two-point conversion was introduced in 1958. I currently don't have the breakdown of TDs, PATs, and FGs for the Yost teams; if anyone else does, I would be pleased to adjust those numbers accordingly so as to make apples-to-apples comparisons with modern teams. The rules of college football evolved rapidly from 1879 to 1930, making strict comparisons difficult. For example, the goal posts were moved from the goal line to the end line (10 yards back of the goal line) only in 1927, which has a huge impact on field goal kicking, and the width of the uprights has varied significantly over time.
October 16th, 2023 at 9:14 PM ^
Here is the text from The Bentley Historical Library regarding the record.
During Heston's four year career, 1901-1904, Yost's "point-a-minute" teams compiled a 43-0-1 record and were credited with four national championships. Heston re-wrote the Michigan record book, his 72 career touchdowns is still tops on the list and his 170 yards rushing in the 1902 tournament of Roses game (the first Rose Bowl) stood for 59 years.
It's worth noting that Heston wouldn't have been eligible to play in 1902, 1903, and 1904 according to current NCAA guidelines. This was due to him already having played three seasons with San Jose State before joining Michigan with Yost in 1901. Which was not uncommon during that era.
October 17th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
72 TDs in 17 (Michigan) games...according to Wickipedia.
An ESPN 30 for 30 needs to be filmed on Heston. Too bad there's not much actual film of him.
October 17th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
I actually went back and counted all the touchdowns in every game during Heston's career, and came up with 69. Not sure why the official record is 72.
October 17th, 2023 at 4:46 PM ^
Nice.
October 16th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
I love touchdowns!
October 16th, 2023 at 9:29 PM ^
Name checks out.
Youve been waiting for this thread, no?
October 16th, 2023 at 9:36 PM ^
Not really, I am just trying keep my post average at about one per year.
This response makes three for the year, so I guess I will head back out the door for a couple of years.
As you were.
October 16th, 2023 at 9:46 PM ^
Hmm. I would've guessed you'd average 20-21 a year. It is 2023, though. No worries.
October 16th, 2023 at 11:10 PM ^
I disagree, you should be averaging a post-a-minute.
October 17th, 2023 at 1:31 AM ^
Is there any relationship to Heston’s Supper Club in LaPorte?
October 17th, 2023 at 1:45 AM ^
idk but the prime rib is soooo good. the best in my book.
October 17th, 2023 at 4:49 AM ^
Wouldn't a post a minute be more appropriate, Willie?
October 17th, 2023 at 7:39 AM ^
too busy scoring touchdowns. Not enough time for posts eh?
October 16th, 2023 at 9:28 PM ^
No one will beat Albert Herrnstein’s 26 TDs in 1902. That dude could bend spacetime!!!
November 15th, 2023 at 6:14 AM ^
Blake Corum currently stands at 18. If he continues at his current clip of 1.8 TD / game, he gets to 27 in the National Championship.
The most TDs in a single season all-time for any CFB team was Barry Sanders with 37 in 1988. That permanently bent spacetime and is one of the unbreakable records (if such a thing exists.)
October 17th, 2023 at 8:43 PM ^
The NCAA needs to make bowl game statistics “officially recognized”. No one should break Barry Sanders’ season rushing records. Give him his bowl game yardage and it’ll be impossible to break even in a sixteen game season.