This Week's Obsession: The Little Bowls Comment Count

Seth

[This week we've changed up the format a little bit. I posted the question in a chat group and people weighed in when they got to it. So it's a bit more conversational.]

The Question:

Do you like low level bowls? Where should they draw the line?

The Responses:

Ace: I’m torn on this mostly because of one game: last year’s Bahamas Bowl. Two 7-5 teams with smaller fanbases from non-power conferences played a football game in the Bahamas and the turnout was as expected.

BUT, I watched that game anyway, and it was completely insane and awesome:

I find myself making fun of the lower level, obvious cash grab for guys in garish blazers bowl games right up until I’m watching and enjoying them because they’re football.

[Hit THE JUMP for a more sensible approach to bowl eligibility]

-----------------------------

Brian: I watched it too, as I have an aunt and uncle who both work at WKU. It was a window into another world of football in which it's more about breaking serve than scoring any points. And so that was interesting enough to warrant it.

My main concern comes in when it's clear that a number of these bowls are money-losing scams for the programs that are in them. You have to go otherwise you kill recruiting, and then they hit you with ticket guarantees and the like. Those have largely evaporated at higher levels as the schools realize they're the ones with the power, but at the bottom end I bet these bowl games are financial disasters. Fix that and, like, whatever, let them eat cake.

The one exception: no more 5-7 teams. That's where I draw the line.

-----------------------------

Ace: 5-7 teams should only be allowed in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl, and they'd be required to fire their head coach first.

I totally agree on working out the finances, and if that happens, I won’t have any issue enjoying the lower-level games. That Bahamas Bowl was on Christmas Eve Afternoon. For me, that’s peak “there’s nothing to do” time.

-----------------------------

Brian: I could get behind a bowl between 0-12 teams.

-----------------------------

Ace: So where do we set up the game between Kansas and UCF?

…besides Ford Field.

-----------------------------

Seth: Only a few bowls are actually established annual events, and barely any of the rest are worthwhile except as  the boondoggles Brian described. I think the NCAA should just mandate that the bowls cover travel expenses for the team and a reasonable amount of necessary program people, and outlaw ticket guarantees. Do that and the economics will sort the rest out.

Seth Plan Bowl Points
Team Record Pts Psbl
Michigan State 12-1 25 27
Iowa 12-1 22 25
Ohio State 11-1 20 23
Michigan 9-3 18 27
Northwestern 10-2 18 24
Wisconsin 9-3 15 24
Penn State 7-5 11 26
Nebraska 5-7 9 25
Indiana 6-6 8 24
Minnesota 5-7 7 26
Not Bowl Eligible
Illinois 5-7 6 24
Rutgers 4-8 5 24
Maryland 3-9 3 24
Purdue 2-10 2 23

I'd also remove the minimum requirement for teams to be bowl-eligible. Why would Indiana ever schedule someone interesting if just the normal spate of conference losses will keep them out of bowls? Michigan has a hard time convincing bad Power 5 programs to play us in the nonconference because the difference between playing a real opponent and an FCS one in September is usually the difference in bowl eligibility.

Instead I'd make a simple points system. Any FBS win is worth 1 point, any Power 5 win is worth an extra point, and any win over the 25 is worth three points total, and you need seven points to play. The 7-win teams will all be there as long as they didn't pad that with FCS games, and bowls would also be able to pick that one 4-8 team who scheduled monsters and beat Notre Dame.

[Added: I tried this with the Big Ten teams and as you can see Nebraska and Minnesota would be eligible but Illinois, who gets nothing for beating Western Illinois, is not. BYU I counted as a Power 5 school, and that's why M's schedule looks a tick harder than the rest. Mouseover the teams to see how they got their points.]

-----------------------------

Adam: I really like Seth's idea that the bowls have to cover travel expenses and erase ticket guarantee. Assuming that's a thing that eventually happens, I propose that the two worst FBS teams play on that oil rig from The Simpsons that had a Krusty Burger on it. That game would have the best of the corporate CFB machine's excess.

There probably wouldn't be room for stands on the oil rig, nor would anyone be able to get there with relative ease, so it would be a purely made-for-TV event: the Krusty Burger Klassic Presented by GlaxoSmithKline, Maker of Tums.

It would have just the right amount of soullessness. It wouldn't be quite as sad as an empty stadium, and the extra bit of creepiness from being able to hear everything they're saying/grunting on the field would make it unique. People love watching two hapless teams outfail each other; the bizarre spectacle of a game on a derelict oil rig puts it over the top, making it as absurd as the teams participating.

The only downside I see is that the swag bags for the players probably would be lackluster considering the sponsors. A voucher for a free cup of Krusty's Klam Chowder, a one-year supply of Tums, and a subscription to ESPN The Magazine wouldn't exactly thrill.

image

-----------------------------

Seth: Isn't MSU already scheduled to play there in 2017?

-----------------------------

Adam: Mark Hollis is my muse.

-----------------------------

David: When I was a kid, I used to love all of the bowl matchups and I would get excited as more and more bowls were added.  The idea of schools having to play against other schools that they would almost never schedule was very intriguing.  Plus, I would watch pretty much any two groups of humans play football.

In the past decade or so, my excitement for lower bowls has more or less dwindled (unless there is a team I try to follow or a crazy matchup).  I'm not really against lower bowls, though.  But, like Ace mentioned, if there's not much going on, I'll probably check out the Liberty Bowl.

To me, unless its Indiana trying to become eligible or Northwestern grasping for the tournament, the novelty of post-season has all but worn off.  There are multiple basketball tournaments and more bowls than can fit mediocre teams.  If you qualify, hooray for you!  If you don't, you must really not be very good. 
The one interesting thing about the Playoff system is that it has clearly defined the tiers.  Playoff level, NY6 (maybe a couple other Jan 1st bowls), and pretty much everything else.

I also agree with Brian and Seth about sorting out the finances and not weighing down smaller programs with net losses.  Seth's idea sounds revolutionary and could add some extra incentives for scheduling.  That could be fun.  But honestly, there's still enough of a 9 year old, football-crazed boy inside of me that would not object to having incessant games available during Bowl Week.  And regardless of what I say, I'll probably still tune in to way more than I originally said I would.

Comments

mgobaran

December 9th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^

Never thought about the financials. That sucks for the smaller teams... 

But bowl games are fun. Can't really have too many more though right? I mean, how many 5-7 teams do you want to watch play more football? Do those 5-7 teams even want to play? Like "YEAH! We can be 5-8 now!"

Ali G Bomaye

December 9th, 2015 at 1:03 PM ^

First of all, it's hard to argue that the bottom end of the current slate of bowl games is much of a "reward."

But more importantly, as Seth said, requiring a flat win total to make a bowl game incentivizes teams who might be borderline bowl teams to schedule cupcakes in their nonconference schedule. I'd rather give two 4-8 teams a bowl game that I won't watch and have Indiana actually try to schedule living, breathing opponents during the season than maintain that a 4-8 team isn't deserving of a trip to Detroit and slog through September schedules full of MAC and Sun Belt teams.

tsabesi

December 9th, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^

Agreed, I like Seth's idea, I might take it a step farther and say bowl eligibility could be based on advanced stats, so an Indiana chaos team with too few wins that has a lot of close losses against great teams can have an entertaining chaos matchup in a bowl game.

SharkyRVA

December 9th, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^

Aren't the teams in Seth's model the same teams that have been selected to bowls? Really don't see a difference.  You can still get to 7 points by scheduling cupcakes and potentially not get to 7 by scheduling real teams.  Cupcake games are innevitable for lower tier teams because they still want to play winnable games.

L'Carpetron Do…

December 9th, 2015 at 1:28 PM ^

is in an intruiging case though.  THey went undefeated in OOC but then went winless in B1G play for a long time before beating the bottom of the barrel.  But, mixed in there were some hard fought, heart breaking losses to very good times. But also a loss to Rutgers...So, what is to be done with this Indiana team?  Its tricky, but I think they deserve it (I don't know why but I kind of like them and thought they were fun to watch).  

On somehting of a side note - wouldn't it behoove the Hoosiers to add tougher teams in the OOC sched so they're better prepated for the conference slate?  It doesn't seem like you're going to adequately prepare for Ohio St by playing St Marys School for the Blind or whoever...

Seth

December 9th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^

I don't want advanced stats determining rankings; that's a disservice to the game. Advanced stats are great because they're predictive. They'll tell you if Michigan plays the game we played against Michigan State with the 10th worst officiating in the game's history instead of the worst-worst the Wolverines win that one. But if you make that the determining factor in ranking, what's the point of being mad about that crap?

The point of football is to win, not to look like you would win. I want Alabama to be pissed that they were an Ole Miss luck-ball away from perfect. I want Indiana fans to be pissed they couldn't upset any of the Top 25 teams they took to the wire. I want players who got to almost to be furious with themselves for not finishing. Extra credit for Indiana taking Michigan to overtime this year would mean 2013 Michigan should kick the extra point against 2013 Ohio State instead of going for it. Screw that.

That's why I kept my rating system simple. It rewards Power 5 schools for being in tougher conferences and for scheduling each other (one of the stumbling blocks for increasing conference games is it necessarily decreases the number of bowl-eligible teams in the conference), and rewards upsets, and disincentivises teams from scheduling FCS schools at all. And you only get points for wins, so ultimately the main point of football is preserved in the rating system.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 9th, 2015 at 2:15 PM ^

I like the idea, but I would tweak it some.  2-6 in conference plus three MAC snacks would get you to a bowl at 5-7, and it shouldn't.  Try this one: three points for a P5 win, two points for an FBS G5 win, one point for an FCS win, -2 points for any loss.  Finish positive or even, and you're eligible.  That would keep this hypothetically crappy team out where they belong.

L'Carpetron Do…

December 9th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^

I agree.  It's hard to believe, but Michigan was 5-7 just last year.  They were just plain awful and I'm glad I was spared  watching the bowl version of sludgefart.  Some teams just don't deserve it and shouldn't be out there.  

Glad they're back in a respectable bowl again!  I'm psyched for New Years Day.  Go Blue!

jg2112

December 9th, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^

I say let every team go to a bowl game. People will watch. Who wouldn't watch a team like Texas?

If that doesn't happen, the rule that really needs to be eliminated is the one that bars teams from practicing if they don't make a bowl. Those are the teams that need the most practice. And, people would certainly tune in to Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina to watch the first game with their new coaches.

JeepinBen

December 9th, 2015 at 1:00 PM ^

And a big part of what I like about Bowls is that it allows about half of the teams that go to bowls to end their year with a win. In the NCAA tournament we see 63* teams end their year with a loss. That sucks for them. But in football, some 33 teams end with a win - that's awesome.

Blue Durham

December 9th, 2015 at 1:06 PM ^

I actually like Brian's idea of having a bowl between two 0-12 (or whatever 2 teams are the worse) provided that the loser gets sent down a level (to FCS or whatever its called) and the champion of FCS gets bumped up to BCS, thus exchanging places.

Spork

December 9th, 2015 at 1:10 PM ^

"I think the NCAA should just mandate that the bowls cover travel expenses for the team and a reasonable amount of necessary program people, and outlaw ticket guarantees. Do that and the economics will sort the rest out."

Agreed. So teams that suck and also have tiny fanbases will not get invites, because the bowls won't be able to sell tickets.

Like Furious_George said above, under the current system, the teams playing in lower-level bowls are essentially paying their way to a longer season, TV exposure, and a recruiting pitch.

.

sharklover

December 9th, 2015 at 6:57 PM ^

Paying their way with the tuition money of the students. Public universities should not be in the business of sinking money that could pay for professor's salaries or bolster their endowments into risky investments in athletic programs, the majority of which are huge money pits. An early December bowl game is the worst kind of gamble for a small, unknown university to take.

Even if a small school pulls in some big time recruits due to a long shot bet on a bowl game and achieves respectability for a few years, where is that going to get them when their coach get's cherry picked by a wealthier program? Or worse, what happens when the sink back into dismal irrelevance after only achieving mediocraty? 

When was the last time you heard anything about Fresno State? They pumped tons of resources into their football program. Now they have disappeared from the national picture, not that they ever really got on the map, in the first place.

BlueMan80

December 9th, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^

and send them to the FTW Bowl.  Play the game in Evanston in NW's stadium.  It's small and suitably crappy and is safer than an oil drilling platform.  At least you get a trip to Chicago out of it.

gbdub

December 9th, 2015 at 1:21 PM ^

Why have bowl eligibility requirements at all? Let every team have the extra practices, it's dumb that those are limited  to bowl teams - either they are bad for students or they aren't.

I like the proposals to make sure bowls don't cost teams vast sums of money.

Beyond that, just let every team schedule an end-of-year exhibition. Why not? Let some random teams that never make a bowl schedule cool games against their counterparts in other conferences. Those could be some fun games - at home venues!

It doesn't diminish anything. Everyone knows that the Rose Bowl is a reward and the Krusty Bowl is not.

 

Rocking Chair

December 9th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^

Western Michigan will probably lose at least $500,000 to go to the Bahamas Bowl on December 24.  About 70% of the $25M athletic budget at WMU is already subsidized from the general fund.  Very few of their fans will make the expensive trek, even if they have passports. 

Lots of heads are being scratched in Kalamazoo, particularly within other departments at the university who are being told to tighten their belts as tuition, fees and room and board costs continue to rise.

Spork

December 9th, 2015 at 3:48 PM ^

I agree. I have to admit that my thoughts have shifted to this view over the last few years. Athletics are not core to a university's mission. So if they're costing a buttload of money from a school's budget, well ... they should spend less. Cut some sports or compete at a lower level. Stop flushing money into losing programs and bowl games.

Olaf

December 9th, 2015 at 1:35 PM ^

No sub .500 team should be allowed in a bowl game. I would rather bring the top FCS teams up and have them play.

As an alum of a MAC school (Fire Up Chips) I appreciate bowls like the Quick Lane and Bahamas Bowl. Shitty P5 teams like Minnesota, Indiana.... may not like them but the smaller schools really appreciate them. You have to remember how much the players enjoy the bowl games.

DonAZ

December 9th, 2015 at 1:43 PM ^

I am going to the Cactus Bowl in Phoenix on January 2nd ... 6-6 ASU hosting 7-5 WVU. 

Why?  Because my lovely wife is from the state of West Virginia.  So, "Go Mountaineers!

We will be among the few hundred WVU fans in attendance. :-)

Bodogblog

December 9th, 2015 at 1:48 PM ^

Love all the bowl games.  It's like the non-con season, but after the season when you know who's good and who's not.  Don't know why anyone objects, watch it all, it's going away for months soon. 

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 9th, 2015 at 2:20 PM ^

I really wish they had a clause where if there weren't enough 6-6 teams, tough shit for the bowls.  Rank the bowls by seniority and if the number of eligible teams falls short, the most junior bowl get the short straw.  Too bad, you don't get to play the MegaZoomWow Weedwhacker For The Cure.com Bowl in scenic Meridian, Mississippi this year, invite some local high school teams or something and better luck next year.  You might get better attendance with the high school teams anyway.

HimJarbaugh

December 9th, 2015 at 2:23 PM ^

I don't mind the bowls if for no other reason than they are something to watch around the holidays. The attendance is awful though and I really doubt the committees care much so long as there are TV deals in place.

What I don't like is that the non-bowl teams don't get the extra practice. If anything, they need it more and should have the extra 12 or 15 or however many practces. It doesn't have to be around Christmas or New Years.

wolvorback

December 9th, 2015 at 2:27 PM ^

I will never say that a 5-7 team shouldn't be allowed to go to any bowl game.  In this system where they don't get paid, I won't mind if some kids get to way on a trip and get some free swag from the sponsors.

MGoStrength

December 9th, 2015 at 3:01 PM ^

As a fan watching, I don't often find myself watching a bowl unless both teams typically are a blue blood program and/or have at least 8 wins.  Even watching Penn St at times was hard this year as a blue blood 7-win team.  I'd watch an 8-5 USC team because they have a lot of exciting players, but you wouldn't find me watching a Kentucky (5-7) vs Minnesota (5-7) matchup for example.  Now that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be in bowls, but if you aren't Michigan, aren't in the top 25, have more than 4 losses, or less than 8 wins, I'm probably not watching because both teams probably have some major flaws on their team.

L'Carpetron Do…

December 9th, 2015 at 4:00 PM ^

Holy Crap I just noticed this when I looked up the bowl schedule, but the Fiesta Bowl is no longer the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl?  Its the Battle Frog Fiesta Bowl?  WHat the hell is that?  Corporate bowl sponsorship is out of hand these days...

sharklover

December 9th, 2015 at 4:12 PM ^

I'm looking at you Eastern Michigan University. Schools like you are wasting the tuition dollars of students, and the subsidy dollars of taxpayers and sponsors. You are creating an awful sporting product that consistently produces terrible results. The games of schools like EMU are barely attended, at all. The athletes playing at these schools do not go on to play professional sports. It's fine to have varsity athletics, but don't compete in a pond that is too big for you to swim in. If EMU ever did blunder its way into a bowl game it would be an even worse boondoggle for all of the stakeholders, who would be left footing the bill.

I'm attending grad school at Indiana U. They are offering tickets to the Pinstripe Bowl to students for $10 a pop. Ain't no way they are going to sell out. It's just my tuition dollars down the drain supporting a team that is going to a bowl game that they don't even want to be in.

I'm sure the extra practices are great. But the financials suck for everyone that doesn't hold Disney stock.

That's not to say Indiana shouldn't be playing in the bowl subdivision. But Rutgers? Kansas? Kent State? You can't tell me these schools wouldn't be more competitive and fun to watch if they were playing in DII ball.

MoJoTME93

December 9th, 2015 at 5:25 PM ^

I've changed my mind on this.   I used to think these little bowls were useless and / or embarassing for a proud program like ours.  Some of that was based on the weak effort we brought to those bowls, some of it was because I didn't care about them.

But after this year, where much of the improvement came from coaching and work in practices, I see them as a big deal: a chance to get another 13-15 practices in for the guys coming back.   

I live in Austin, and Texas fans were uninterested in a bowl, and maybe with Charlie Strong it woudln't have helped much anyway, but with a young team, or even one that hasn't been well coached before (i.e. our OL), you would like to think your coaches can make your team better *next year* by having more practices even if the bowl is a little one.

Steve

 

sharklover

December 9th, 2015 at 6:45 PM ^

Sure that makes sense for Michigan and Texas. If your program pulls in tens of millions of dollars in profit every year and you can sell 15,000 tickets to a game on the other side of the country at the drop of a hat, any bowl would make sense. But if your fans can't fill a 30,000 seat stadium for a home game and the only thing keeping your program afloat is early season matchups with big schools that will pay you a million dollars to come to their stadium and get walloped, how can you justify a money losing adventure to a silly bowl nobody cares about?

Extra practices will help Charlie Strong revive Texas. But give a bowl bid to Texas State? They will lose half a million dollars, and a few weeks of extra practice won't make their program competitive in the Bowl Subdivision. 

drjaws

December 9th, 2015 at 10:07 PM ^

Love the bowl games. I try to watch them all as I typically take 2-3 weeks off work from mid-December to early-January. Don't really care who is playing. I just love college football.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad