should be a lot of fun for Demar. Hope he finds great success and has tons of fun surfing.
~ O LET DO IT! ~
Hey, kids! Death to Comcast! No internet until just now today and my backup plan wasn't working. Apologies. Anyway:
Maybe you can do it after all? Luke Winn is my favorite college basketball writer for pieces like the one he just published on three-point defense. Inspired by Ken Pomeroy's repeated assertions that three-point defense is random* and that you should therefore try to reduce the number of threes opponents get off, Winn looks at the problem in more detail, finding a couple of notable exceptions:
After writing a story on the Pack-Line Defense -- a packed-in, help-oriented man-to-man that Dick Bennett first used at Wisconsin-Green Bay in the mid-1990s -- I couldn't help but notice that three teams running pure Pack-Line this season were among the leaders in three-point field-goal D: Arizona, which ranked third nationally at 28.5 percent; Virginia, which was sixth at 28.9 percent; and Xavier, which was 22nd at 30.5 percent. Meanwhile, two teams that seemed to encourage opponents to take threes, Florida State and Syracuse, also managed to rank in the top 50 in defensive three-point percentage and were top-20 overall defenses in efficiency.
Syracuse in particular demonstrates that three-point defense probably exists in a meaningful way. In the ten years Kenpom has data for Syracuse has finished 8th (out of about 350), 6th, 63rd, 129th, 63rd, 185th, 8th, 22nd, 29th, and 47th in defending three pointers. That's one or two mediocre years, three good years, and five outstanding years. Clearly there's a lot more variance in three pointers**, but you can defend them. There may be a price (Syracuse, unbelievably, was 341 of 345 in defensive rebounding while being 33rd in offensive rebounding), but you can do it.
Also, this is why you are right to pull out your hair at Tim Hardaway long twos:
If you don't think the long twos-vs.-threes argument is important, consider this: While Wisconsin held its opponents to just 0.807 points per possession on three-point attempts -- an amazingly efficient rate -- it allowed just 0.628 PPP on long twos. There's a reason Ryan charts and cherishes the two-point jumpers UW forces outside the paint. The odds on getting beat from that area are miniscule.
Long twos are the worst shot in basketball, and you can get them with 25 seconds on the shot clock because teams don't care if you take them. If there's ten seconds left, sure, go for it. Eschewing the offense in favor of The Worst Shot In Basketball makes Brian crazy.
*[If you look at shooting percentages from the first half to the second half of a season, there is almost no correlation. I think this might be a sample size issue.]
**[Variance for the statistically disinclined: imagine the difference in variability in 50-point 30-foot Rock 'n' Jock baskets versus dunks.]
Feel the love for the system. The Insight Bowl is no longer going to be named after some sort of computer company I think or an abstract concept. They made the mistake of asking the twitter what the twitter thought they might rename it to. If this feels like a softball covered in butter, yeah:
The Tempe Municipal Government Cheddar's Casual Cafe' Quality Food & Service Bowl, at Sun Devil Stadium #NameTheGame
i want a bowl game called the Horrybowl. someone ask Robert Horry if he's interested in starting a liability-only car insurance company.
Jason Kirk's list of suggestions has some excellent candidates:
Molybdenum Ore Bowl
Insane Maricopa County Sheriff Bowl
P.F. Chang's Rock 'n' Roll Arizona Marathon & 1/2 Marathon Bowl
Erosion of public support due to shameless profit-seeking, etc etc etc. This is definitely a meaningful indicator of bowls' public face and not just the internet snarking on stuff.
Basically. Via Ira at WTKA, former Alaska-Anchorage player Justin Bourne responds to a piece on the superiority of the major junior route:
As someone quickly approaching their 30th birthday thinking about what I’d do if I were a young player now deciding between the two, I can’t help but think: I’d have to be awfully damn good to choose major junior hockey over college. It’s not taking anything away from those who choose to go the CHL route, it’s just that one way seems a little more all-or-nothing than the other. Both seem like flying down the highway on a motorcycle, but one affords you a helmet. …
Nobody can say for certain what’s the best route – each player has a different set of developmental needs, and each league fulfills those differently.
But for those who could use a little more time to develop and miiiigghht just want to hedge their bets on the future with an education, college hockey is the way to go.
That's about right. If you're not going to be in the top two rounds, junior is a gamble on a longshot when there's a less risky route that doesn't require you to give up the gamble, or even seem to hurt your chances much. Given the NHL hit rate of secound-rounders, you could argue that even those folks would be making a better decision to go to college.
Unless you just don't want even the tenuous amount of schooling you have to go through to be in college these days, the best argument in favor of the CHL is usually "they offered me money." If so, fair enough.
I would like to see the man behind the curtain, because there is only one. Michigan is investing a cool half-million into a giant curtain they can put in Crisler when it hosts women's basketball and gymnastics events so that the place feels less abandoned. Michigan averaged about 1700 fans per game at basketball last year.
It's probably the right thing to do, but putting up a curtain so attendance at certain sports is less embarrassing is… well, it kind of sums up the whole NCAA thing. The football players make a bunch of money, which is then spent on the strangest things.
Demar lands somewhere nice. Demar Dorsey will play his college ball at Hawaii, so at least he got an adventure out of everything. No, he's not coming here. I just told you he's going to play at Hawaii. No, still not coming. I am beginning to think you have the brain damage.
Etc.: Big Ten hockey hires Steve Piotrowski as its head of officials, which is a good move. Better move would be to clone him and put him on the ice for all games. Piotrowski #1 would be a super Piotrowksi. Dennis Norfleet gets really excited when he blocks a shot, understandably. SBN is making the case for relegation.
NO DEMAR DORSEY IS NOT COMING TO MICHIGAN
should be a lot of fun for Demar. Hope he finds great success and has tons of fun surfing.
~ O LET DO IT! ~
Your puns are Horry-ble
So you're saying there's a chance?
Not sure if you knew, but Dorsey backwards is "yes rod". So, yeah.
He's going to Arizona?
Depending on the format, I would love a relegation model. But I doubt the big whigs would ever go for it. Ever.
But maybe that's the reason that Fillmore was the last Whig POTUS
The Whigs were relegated anyway, after their crappy performance in the 1852 season.
That gives me hope the same could happen to the Big Whigs.
Man, I can not wait for Demar Dorsey and Antonio Bass to kick ass for the Maize and Blue this fall
1,000 cocktails to all of us, ladies and gents
Antonio Bass would be so perfect for the spread and shread! Like Pat White only fast(er)!
That the curtain will make Crisler look better for women's games is less important to me than the fact that it has the potential to create a louder, more intimidating atmosphere. The theory would be that this would lead to more wins, which will lead to more fans paying for tickets and buying $5 boxes of popped maize. Perhaps eventually the curtain pays for itself--and maybe makes itself obsolete in the process.
It takes a vice grip on Brandon's nether regions to get the band to Dallas, but we have the money to make the women's basketball team look better for the 8 people watching it on BTN? I'm all for fairness, but I don't get that.
I'm wondering why you think that traveling to an extra game for the MMB is so much more important than women's basketball and gymnastics?
Because people want to see the MMB at the game in Dallas.
No one really cares about Women's BB and gymnastics.
(Now inevitably, some nitpicker is going to reply to my post and say "It's not true that no one cares! I care!" But my point is that the number of people who care about the former is far, far greater than those who care about the latter, which is relatively miniscule.)
Lots more people care about the @#$%! Kardashians than care about the Michigan Marching Band, but that doesn't mean that they have any sort of value in the world.
Part of the reason fewer people care is because women's sports, by and large, regardless of success, have been treated like stepchildren by the AD. Women's gymnastics has won more Big Ten championships than all the other universities combined. They are ranked in the top ten in the nation most years. Whether or not a sufficient number of people to impress you "care" does not mean that they are not an asset to the university and shouldn't be presented to the world in a manner befitting their quality. To quote a noted sage: This is Michigan, fer gawdsakes.
I seem to recall a curtain or a screen of some sort in the Breslin Center for a volleyball match held there. Does that make it more palatable?
.....like step-children or does the AD treat them like step-children because fewer people care?
Who cares? The AD's job is to provide opportunities for student athletes. We have the money. Give them a fucking curtain.
How does a curtain provide "opportunities for student athletes"?
I don't mind the curtain. It's not going to break the bank. I mind one hand saying they're broke when the other hand is spending the same amount of money that does nothing more for the opportunities of student athletes.
We have the money. Do them both. And quit crying poor.
Nobody, including Brandon, said we were broke. Only one person suggested this as an either or proposition, and it's the guy you're defending.
If you think spending money to improve game-day experience is not "investing in the athletes", I'm not sure what to say.
He would not/could not fund the band. In a boat. With a Goat. In a box. With a fox. But would/could fund the curtain.
And I'm not sure how a curtain improves the game day experience for the athletes. Maybe the fans, who I keep hearing don't matter. But a player is paying attention to the game, not what's going on in the upper deck. Frankly, I'd be more embarrassed that the school though we needed curtains to cover up how few people were there. So no, I don't think it does hardly anything for the athletes game day experience. It just makes it prettier for fans and humiliated administrators and marketing guys stealing checks. Just like I don't think big new scoreboards at Michigan Stadium improves the game-day experience for players...and it's all about the fan experience.
Which is ok; there's nothing wrong with making things better for fans. Just don't do everything under the guise of it being "what the players like" when it's nothing about what the players like.
Creating an arena environment that's louder and more intimidating to opposing teams provides a direct benefit to the players.
Also, as many times as I've seen football players looking over at the scoreboards to watch replays, it's clear the scoreboards aren't merely for the fans.
They absorb sound. They don't make things louder. Now, it's certainly possible they create an overall better environment that encourages more noise, but I doubt there's been any studies on that other than anecdotal. But hard, angular surfaces have been shown to reflect noise.
And yes, players look up for replays. They weren't put in for that purpose, and they certainly weren't trained to check the board for them rather than playing attention to what's going on the field, sideline, or with their coach.
What are you even arguing?
What do you think should be done?
What shouldn't be done?
Good lord. You type and type and type and type and I don't even know what your purpose is.
And just what I've said. If you have a surplus of all that money, save yourself the bad PR and pay for both. Or at least work behind the scenes to get someone else to pay for it if you don't want to. But don't show you can pay for a half million dollar curtain after you had to go public with your hands out to pay for the band after you promised everyone a bowl game in September experience when you were selling your super expensive tickets. Stop making everyone look bad by claiming expenses are too high when you can spend more on luxury expenses a month later.
I don't think the curtains they hang in arenas are made of the same material as the ones hung in houses. Someone on another board said they're made of Kevlar or some other heavy-type material. Everything I've read about them says they make the atmosphere louder. See this article for some reaction from athletes at Arizona to the curtain at their arena.
He made the decision to fund the curtain after he agreed to fund the band.
So your entire premise is wrong. It was not an either/or proposition.
Also, I don't find it "embarassing" that a mediocre women's basketball team or a gymnastics team fails to fill a 15,000 seat arena.
Your characterization of it being "humiliating" and "embarassing" strikes me as odd - this is de rigeur across NCAA athletics.
I keep getting all these contradictions...first they're not fiscally related...now they're paying for the band..which is it again?
And now I'm hearing from you that all over NCAA athletics can't fill an arena...but Other Chris who you're agreeing with says that Michigan's support for the sports is horrible and they DO fill up at other schools? Can't be both.
And no, I don't think there's anything wrong with not being able to sell out whatever sport you're playing or involved with. The humiliating aspect comes in where your own AD thinks he needs to camouflage that fact because it looks bad.
I know you aren't this dense.
The two options are not "none of them fill up" or "all of them fill up" - you understand, this correct? Tennessee and UConn sellout Women's Basketball. I'm sure Iowa sells out wrestling. That doesn't mean it's the rule - it means successful programs with a solid amount of AD investment can put asses in the seats.
As per the band - you know exactly what happened, so drop the insincerity. Brandon announced he would not pay for the band to travel (which was consistent with everything that had ever occurred between the band and the AD). People freaked, he caved.
I said the AD is not fiscally responsible for the band - they aren't. That's why the expenditure is termed, by me, as a gift.
I just have an honest question...Did the AD really pay for the band or was the money donated by some rich alums? I thought it was a donation, not the AD but I oculd certainly be wrong.
Are Michigan fans really less inclined to care about winning non-rev teams than Utah or Alabama fans? Or is it just not as attractive or well-publicized a proposition in Ann Arbor?
We know the bandwagon is big, having sat through the Amaker years in Crisler, so I don't exactly expect hordes to turn out for a marginal women's basketball team, considering how even the most successful women's teams are viewed. But if it's well-publicized, cheap, and Crisler is a "cool" place to be and the event is lively and enjoyable, more people should turn up.
Back when we started going to gymnastics -- almost ten years ago! God I'm old -- there was a student named Rishi who was really enthusiastic and got lots of other students turning out. There was a local weekly TV show with highlights from the previous week's meet on whichever station used to carry those things pre-BTN. My son would pretend to be Ben Hummel, the student doing the announcing. The crowds have declined since then. This is just anecdotal, but I'm guessing we could look at attendance figures and see whether there is a correlation between attendance and Rishi and Ben's time in Ann Arbor.... The AD has to know of ways other than a few random tweets and a video on MGoBlue to get people out for non-revenue sports.
Successful Stanford (which doesn't do so well in football or basketball generally)? Does Bama attend all of their sports? And if so, are there lots of examples, or is that just an outlier?
I'd say there are pocket sports at various schools that do well because of interest or tradition, or some combo of both. I don't think there are too many big football or basketball schools that pack the arenas of all their minor sports. Or even just the successful ones. At Michigan, it's probably softball, that plays to good sized crowds regularly. At someplace like Tennessee, it's basketball. I'm sure there are sports at Utah that are full. But I find it hard to believe that ALL of them are full at ALL of those schools.
As you said....they're not really getting treated all that differently than basketball. But even when good, basketball can't sell out all their games. Heck, Fab Five's last game all together on campus...tickets still available. Now the University is changing somewhat, at least trying to put money in the programs. Basketball first, and now another $250 mil into the minor sports. But I don't think money creates interest. It's fine to give them the best competitive facilities they can have so they have the best shot to win. But success and something compelling to the majority creates interest, not great facilities, are marketing schemes.
The hiring of Barnes Arico denotes a certain seriousness of purpose. I'd like to see something more -- what, I don't know -- done to bring in students for non-revs (not just women's sports). The fact that other schools can fill arenas for women's gymnastics -- even in the SEC, which is surely as football-mad and probably more -- means it could be done here.
Director's Cup doesn't wrap up til May 31st, so you have a little more time.
Barnes Arico's staff hasn't been officially announced yet, but multiple people have reported that the hirings have already been made. These reports say that the staff will include Joy McCorvey, one of her assistants at St. John's; Chester Nichols, who had been an assistant at Kansas; and Melanie Moore, who had been a Princeton assistant.
McCorvey has already been added to the U-M directory and Nichols is no longer listed on the staff page at Kansas, which provides some backing for these reports.
It's pretty solid scuttlebutt on some message boards and on twitter. McCorvey's U-M directory profile has her title as "Women's Assistant Basketball Coach."
And Nichols is thought of as a good recruiter from his (obviously positive) bio. Would that complete the staff, or is anyone with in-state ties going to be added?
There are still other staffers to be hired (e.g., director of basketball operations, video coordinator), but the people named above will be the three assistant coaches. Nichols sounds fine, and McCorvey and Barnes Arico together should be able to entice some players from the East Coast to Ann Arbor, but I have some misgivings about Moore being the lone one with Midwest ties.
Fortunately, the university, including the athletic dept., exists to serve the students and not as a source of entertainment for you and me. With that understanding, this comparison frames the issue nicely. With the money saved from not sending the marching band on a weekend boondoggle the university was able to upgrade infrastructure for the benefit of multiple sports teams for years.
Seems an easy choice to me but that might be because I don't have as little regard as you do for women and womens' athletics.
The purpose of the Athletic Department is to provide opportunities for Student Athletes. Entertaining people who regard an institution of higher learning as a sports franchise is second.
Well, from a purely numbers standpoint, I'd be that more people will watch the game in Dallas (on TV and in person) than will watch a game using the curtain in the three or four decades. I'd also bet that more people would notice the absense of MMB than will notice the emptiness of the arena.
On the more philosophical side, what makes one sport more important than another? In my mind, sports are important beause people care about them. How else could you differentiate them? Championships won? Perhaps. Women's basketball championships don't pay the women's basketball coach's salary though, football does. We could distribute all the revenues equally between all the sports, but neglecting football would likely lower revenues and have an adverse effect on all of the other sports. In effect, paying more attention to women's basketball might actually make them worse off in the long term.
So I would pose the question back to you. Why is going to an extra game for MMB not more important than women's basketball and gymnastics? Why does engineering, law, and business get more funding than philosophy? Why do the athelets have state of the art practice facilities and I'm stuck in the CCRB? Why is my roommate going to Google and I'm still unemployed? Why did the girl at Rick's go home with the baseball player and not me?
And faulty logic exasperates them.
The only ones who would have noticed the MBB missing are the fans in the stadium. The marching band is largely invisible on TV, even on the BTN which works hard to highlight the pomp. And anyway, I cannot see how you can honestly be comparing an expense (and not even one generally borne by the Athletic Department) for one game to a capital improvement for Crisler, upon which they have lavished millions, that will benefit multiple sports and possibly even the Marching Band performance that takes place each December at Crisler, for many years to come.
If you really want to boil it down, in a world where people go to bed hungry every night why are we spending half a million dollars on either of them? This is sports though, so we have excepted all reality.
Faulty logic? Where? You can't take one part of my argument and let it stand alone and then call it faulty. How can I compare the two? They're both expenditures by the athletic department. Why is it self-evident that a capital improvement is more important than a branding exercise? How do you value them? NPV? I'd bet the MMB in Dallas is has a higher NPV than the curtain. You don't think that Herbstreit and Mussberger wouldn't have mentioned the absence of MBB? People we talking about it on Alabama message boards. Not genreally borne by the athlettic department? True, but we don't generally play the first game of our season in Dallas against the reigning national champions. It's clear by the reaction of the athletic department that more than the people in the stadium would have cared. Further, you do notice when MMB isn't at a game. It's always clear when they aren't at away games.
I've been at both an MWBB game and a gymnastics meet in Crisler and never felt like it detracted from my enjoyment of them game. MMB not being in Dallas definitely would have detracted from my enjoyment.
And, quite frankly, I think they should do both. We have plenty of money.
Like they mention that the MMB isn't there for big night games at Penn State? The only reason it would merit a mention is because it created local controversy. I'm not a fan of the whole Jerry's World boondoggle anyway, but I think the band should be there if only because it was sold to Michigan fans as a bowl-like experience. However, that's not the same as being noteworthy at all to Musberger. And Dave Brandon, whatever you may think of him, is not dumb enough to set a precedent for the AD paying for the band.
What does merit a mention by commentators and fans on blogs is the quality of facilities when other equally ranked teams come to Ann Arbor. Now, to be sure, not many schools draw much for women's basketball, but Utah, Alabama, and Georgia manage to fill a similar sized arena for gymnastics. Seeing the uninspiring facilities gives the *appearance* that Michigan just doesn't care about non-rev sports. While that is not true for baseball and softball (thanks, Mr. Wilpon -- visitors are impressed by the facility!), it is very true for other sports. Improving Crisler just a bit more -- to the level with peer institutions -- for a mere $500,000 more isn't the same as sending the band to Texas. And fortunately, big improvements to all the other facilities -- $250 million -- are on the schedule next.
You made the original value judgement that the MMB was more important. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion because I never questioned the decision. It is therefore beholden upon you to defend your value judgement not me.
You also falsely equate the MMB with the football team. They are two completely different entities. One might even note that the MMB is not a sport at all. I doubt you mean to argue that reducing the MMB's budget would significantly alter the money brought in by the football.
MMB is not the football team just like the curtain is not the women's basketball team, but MMB contributes to the gameday expereince in football just as the athletic facilities contribute to the gameday expereince. While it would be silly to equate the two, there are certainly similarities.
You seem awfully hostile. What's up here? I gave you my logic. Now I'm asking for yours. That's how a discussion/argument goes. My opinion is malleable, but "RAWR YOU ARE STUPIDZ FOR NOT AGREEING WITH ME" is not going to change my mind.
The funny thing:
The Band, which is not a sport, does not actually fall under the purview of the AD. Sometimes the AD is nice enough to pay it some money, but it's not part of the AD.
Women's basketball, however, is.
Right. There is an undeniable and inextricable link between the two, though. My opinion is that the AD derives at least as much--if not more--benefit from sending the band to Dallas as it does on a curtain for Crisler. That isn't borne out of any bias against women's sports (I'm a regular attendee at volleyball and field hockey), I just think a curtain is a ridiculous way for the AD to spend half a million dollars. If the AD wanted to spend half a million on assistants for women's basketball i would be all for it. The atmosphere around women's athletics is so stifling; even a whiff of a slight towards a womens team and people come out of the woodwork to attack. If this were about wrestling I suspect the outcry wouldn't be close to as vehement.
I'm arguing on behalf of non-revenue sports, which my family attends regularly, in Crisler. It would be nice if we had a spare nice old-school fieldhouse like Illinois and Penn State do for their non-revs, but we don't.
Wrestling, like men's gymnastics and volleyball, competes in a space the right size for the event. Cliff Keen reminds me of nothing more than an elementary school gym, but at least the fans aren't rattling around like the last handful of peanuts in the bottom of the supersized Costco can. And I'm pretty sure that when these teams host Big Tens or regionals in Crisler, they will be using the curtain, too, regardless of gender.