Sam Webb on Laila Phelia: "It's not over."
So I listen to the podcast a day late, but on yesterday's Michigan Insider, Sam Webb spent about an hour talking about the Laila Phelia news, specifically related to NIL. He made it clear he was speculating, but said that he does not think it is over with Phelia, but that NIL money will play a factor and that Michigan has a chance to bring her back. He also gave an update that the "do not contact" tag had been removed from her portal entry.
He did not have news or thoughts on other players like Chyra Evans that he said he was looking into.
Here is a link, look for sections 4 and 8 from April 10: https://www.wtka.com/podcasts/
Also, I took a look at social media for each of the 6 players who have entered the portal and the only one who has posted a goodbye note is Taylor Williams. Sadly I think that means it is over with her, but hopefully not with the others, especially Phelia, Evans, and Woodson. Cam Williams and Stuck please come back too.
NIL is more important for WBBs. Even if they make it to WNBA, the pay may not exceed what some players can make from NIL.
I have not looked at the numbers. Is the attrition level at our WBB normal?
No it is not, especially seeing our best player (Phelia) and another starter (Evans) hitting the portal. Hopefully Michigan can reel them back in.
April 11th, 2024 at 10:00 AM ^
This isn't directed at you per se, but the whole idea that WBB players "give up" $$ to go pro is so dumb. Yes, the current WNBA structure means that their salaries won't have a huge dollar value, but do we really think that State Farm is going to drop Caitlin Clark since she's a pro? NIL deals can follow the athletes after they graduate!!
April 11th, 2024 at 10:03 AM ^
At Clark's level totally true. She's going to make 8 figuresish regardless. Going from the best player at a big school to a bench player in the pros, genuinely unsure.
April 11th, 2024 at 10:38 AM ^
Also, Clark is a horrible example. She is one of only a few cases of WBB NIL being used in a straightforward way -- businesses are sponsoring her, actually paying for her Name, Image and Likeness, not funneling money into Iowa WBB, per se.
99% of NIL is glorified money laundering, and WBB is growing in popularity, but sports fandom overall is still deeply sexist and happily exploiting the outdated notion that women's sports are "non-revenue" (ratings be damned, no really, the condescension is that brazen) to tell them they're [financially] worth nothing. Oh, I'm sure there's some money out there, but it's so miniscule compared to football that you can't imagine them working the same way. Phelia'd be welcomed at a number of programs and she can try to make NIL an issue, but those are basically two different conversations. She's good, but she's not Caitlin Clark.
Point being, the vast majority of women probably aren't getting paid, anywhere. I can't imagine the offers at any one program are significantly more lucrative than any other. And in the case of superstardom like Clark's, the money's following the individual, not coming from the program.
April 11th, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^
They might if she doesn't excel at the next level.
April 11th, 2024 at 11:59 AM ^
JeepinBen, some national brands may stick with a player like Clark after she turns pro. But I do not think local businesses and especially alumni will pay her anymore. A player like Laila will appeal more to local businesses and alumni than national brands. Do you think any national brand will sponsor Laila? Clark is an exception. Many WBB players get a "second job" during the off-season to support their life-style.
April 11th, 2024 at 12:16 PM ^
Clark's money is almost all national brands that will continue with her (and in the case of Nike, probably increase the relationship) and one of the few regional brands (Hy-Vee) happens to be expanding in Indiana right now and will almost certainly want to retain her as a result. As I understand she gets no "NIL collective" type money.
But yeah, for many of these players other than marketable stars (JuJu for an example still in school), for any real NIL is going to be local stuff, and collectives will start getting involved, and it's incredibly hard to even make a WNBA roster, a lot of women will either be playing overseas or going pro in something other than basketball. Multiple first rounders don't make WNBA rosters every year!
Yeah, there's only 13 WNBA teams. If you aren't one of the truly elite players in college, the odds that you make the wnba are slim to none.
A 13th team (and possibly a 14th) starting in 2025 does make it at least a little bit better chance of making the league in 2025, but you'll have others who have just been playing in Europe that come back to give it a go too. Rebekah Gardner didn't play in the WNBA until she was in her 30s.
At the moment with only 12 teams, there's a max of 144 roster spots in the league, and several teams only carry 11 to stay under the cap. Naz was a flat-out star for Michigan and so far she's a deep bench player in the W. Just crazy hard to make that league.
Hopefully any earmarked NIL can go to the football team
April 11th, 2024 at 10:53 AM ^
Nothing chocks my guff like people who want to pour everything into Michigan football at the expense of all other M sports.
April 11th, 2024 at 11:14 AM ^
+1 for chocks my guff.
So is there just no nil money for wbb? Is that the problem?
April 11th, 2024 at 11:19 AM ^
Maybe? I don't know what's going on with Phelia or even the program in general, but IF this is about NIL, they're being naive.
Women's basketball outdrew the men's finals. They know they're being watched. That bell can't be un-rung, and bully for them. But NIL isn't TV money*. It comes from business owners and other wealthy benefactors, who for the most part are white, male, sexist, and generally not fans of women's basketball. There are exceptions, but those exceptions literally define where NIL money is concentrated. From 30,000 feet, the inclination to pay female athletes is still a full generation -- if not two -- behind the revenue they're generating. (I mean if men want to complain about not getting paid. . . WBB going "LOL that's adorable")
So Michigan likely can't pay her, but most other places can't either, because (as pointed out by Brian on the latest Roundtable) NIL and TV revenue are two completely separate buckets, by design. She could land at a place with significant NIL for WBB, but if this is really about money, she's as likely to be looking for a pot of gold with her name on it that just doesn't exist.
*Again, unless you're a Caitlin Clark, which no one on M's squad is
so he's got a gut pheliang
I have a glimmer of hope that some of this movement to the portal is a game of chess by KBA. In order to get more NIL flowing to WBB in general, it may be necessary to show that collectively they have power to help themselves. I don't think they can "unionize", but working together to bring NIL money their way collectively may be a tremendous strategy. Of course there is a risk that some team pulls a player or two but in order to upset the apple cart going forward it might be worth the risk.
I'm more inclined to think that they are seeing what others are willing to pay and then seeing if UM will compensate this pay. Go where you get paid the most is a good strategy if you may not make much money in the sport after graduation.
April 11th, 2024 at 10:23 AM ^
Your move Warde...
April 11th, 2024 at 10:27 AM ^
Educate yourself about NIL.
While I'd like to believe this, it doesn't explain Chyra Evans' entrance (she's Australian). Hers is even more perplexing given that she is already an entrenched starter whose main competition for PT (Cam Williams) was the first player to enter the portal this offseason. She has a guaranteed starting position and can't benefit from NIL anyway.
This one, as I believed we talked about before is indeed super confusing. My only thought would be that she's bailing because Laila is out and it's looking like a rebuild??? Unless there really is a culture issue, which would be surprising from my very outside lens it appears the girls play hard for and like KBA. (I know we truly don't know anything)
April 11th, 2024 at 10:02 AM ^
We all know that March Madness is the big bread winner for the NCAA coffers, and football is a close second. But the TV numbers for the womens game surpassed all of those broadcasts. Pay the women. The era of "free labor" in college athletics is over.
April 11th, 2024 at 10:07 AM ^
One problem with NIL and the portal as currently constructed is the contract length is one season. It is set up so anyone with perceived "value" should enter the portal every year and shop for the best deal for their circumstance. In general, I don't have a problem with the athletes getting the best deal for themselves, but at least the pros have a longer contract period to reduce the volatility.
April 11th, 2024 at 10:09 AM ^
Frankly, if you're a talented player not in a dream scenario (like Mason or Will Johnson, coming off a championship and 1 year from being a top 10 pick) it's nearly malpractice not to test the waters and see what you could get elsewhere. I hate it for the sports, but if she were my daughter I'd support her getting hers.
April 11th, 2024 at 10:34 AM ^
Hopefully, our NIL approach has transformed.
April 11th, 2024 at 12:54 PM ^
C'mon Sam, it's gotta be mostly over though. I have to imagine that she knows from playing with Angel Reese (LSU), Raven Johnson (South Carolina), Lauren Betts (UCLA), what type of money is out there to play at those schools and that there's enough to be made there that would make her leave.
The Caitlin Clark numbers are phenomenal. But that was a boon for ABC - the media rights were a fraction of the men's media rights.
Will that change? Probably a little. But I wouldn't want to be the conference president walking up to the networks expecting a bidding war. For the most part, women's games still get just a fraction of the viewers. Look at the Michigan/Michigan State game from February 18 - a Sunday 1pm slot on the Big Ten Network. This was an important game for qualifying for the NCAA tournament (both teams eventually got 9-seeds). Take a guess on viewership.
Women's basketball is growing, and the Clark phenomenon will help. But there isn't a single program in the country that made money. UConn never has, and they're usually the ratings leaders.
Answer to the above question: 74,000.
Now, viewership for the conference tournament.
3/10 (Championship): Iowa/Nebraska - CBS, 3,021,000
3/9 (Semifinal): Iowa/Michigan - BTN, 1,075,000
3/8 (Quarterfinal): Iowa/Penn State - BTN, 1,040,000
3/8 (Quarterfinal): Michigan/Indiana - BTN, 454,000
3/9 (Semifinal): Nebraska/Maryland - BTN, 357,000
3/8 (Quarterfinal): Ohio State/Maryland - BTN, 196,000
3/8 (Quarterfinal): Michigan State/Nebraska - BTN, 195.000
3/7: (Round of 12): Nebraska/Purdue - BTN, 128,000
3/7: (Round of 12): Penn State/Wisconsin - BTN, 94,000
3/7: (Round of 12): Michigan/Minnesota - BTN, 91,000
3/7: (Round of 12): Maryland/Illinois - BTN, 56,000
The first-round games aren't even in the list, which goes to 10,000, I believe.
These are solid numbers, but they only become significant revenue when Iowa is added to the mix. I get that athletes are employees now, and I agree they should be paid. But I think a women's basketball player - even a really good one like Phelia - will be disappointed to find that true NIL money related to her ability as a player is quite limited. There just isn't a formal "let's pay them a salary" thing yet. I don't know that we can get there for non-revenue sports.
Some schools may find a way, through boosters, to throw some money around. Maybe Phelia can get some of that. But the expectation that Warde can or should reach into a drawer and pull out an envelope... that's not how it works.
I hope she returns. But, frankly, in a world where good starters can be purchased like that... it's not going to grow the sport and Phelia is not the next Caitlin Clark.
It doesn't appear to be a women's basketball/non revenue thing as there are better NIL opportunities at other schools for the same sport where you still have the same limitations. This is still the athletic department that didn't think that Juwan needed a NIL director.
On3 (which tracks this stuff) indicates that it's a complicated mix of social media follows, news stories (top football recruits like Dylan Raiola are borderline $1 million) and, who knows... I'm sure there are marketing experts here who could offer more insight.
There are a couple of Michigan names in their top 100 - Will Johnson (54) and Donovan Edwards (98). Vladislav Goldin comes in at 56 - no idea what that's all about.
Anyway, there are five women's names in the top 100, which includes only athletes with eligibility remaining. Four basketball players, including the Cavender twin who didn't "retire", and one gymnast who comes in at number three and even those of us who have zero exposure to social media have probably read many stories about her daily life.
Phelia is #33 among women's basketball players, which seems great. But I look at the list, and aside from LSU and Iowa teammates of this year's big names, it seems like a function of social media.
This suggests to me that perhaps Michigan could gain from (or already has) hiring a few social media experts who exclusively work with athletes. That might be a more organic way to get some NIL momentum.
Laila seems to be doing fairly well on the organic NIL front with deals with JBL, Peloton, Hanes, SoFi, a perfume company with 140K followers, and various other small businesses it seems. So this probably isn't about real NIL, and there's a significant enough amount to be had at the high end programs, or she just wants to win at the highest level. Based on Sam Webb saying there's a chance she could come back, I'm guessing it's about money. If it was about winning she would be gone gone because there's no doubt a top five team that would love her on their roster.