RaisedGoBlue's Thoughts on the DBs

Submitted by alum96 on

I saw this post on another thread from user RaisedGoBlue, and I asked the user to put it in its own thread as it deserved more attention - and then I realized he did not have 100 MGo points.  I would like to ask the moderators to give him 100 as I'd be interested in thoughts separately on LBs and/or DL if he has the time to expand as deeply as he did with the DBs.  I know we have a few folks who have coached at a pretty high level but it is interesting to hear from guys who have played D1.   I feel position coaching is the most underrated part of football and right now in our program a case can be made we are lacking there in quite a few spots.  Which frustates me. 

Below are his thoughts copied from another thread:

This blog is awesome and I read it everyday. Thank you much to all those that contribute. I have always decided against posting because discussing topics online can be frustrating. Nevertheless this tickeled me to reply. I played major college football. Started at db and moved to outside lb because i bulked up so much and had "bad hips" ha. I also pass rushed in passing situations. This does not mean i know it all but i do have some knowledge of this game at the collegilate level and an idea of how things operate at a university like Michigan. 

To start off on this topic, this falls on Hoke but that's another topic. Simply put these db's are not being coached correctly and are being allowed to get away with poor technique. Very poor. In press coverage, yes the objective is to disrupt the time and rhythm of an offense. Even more importantly, be physical as most receivers hate to be hit and to block. 

Lets start with Countless. His technique is very bad and football iq maybe worse. In man converage, you cannot get beat inside. You can't, there is no help and an easier throw for the qb. Even before all this, 3rd and 3-7. as a db you should be thinking slant. Countless obviously wasn't becaue he never even jumped any slant routes. Great db's do this. Yes it's a mind game and don't jump it all the time as you rely on your coverage technique and tackling technique to rip the ball. We were coached to even cheat inside sometimes. You can't get beat inside. Force to sidelines. Countless was beat several times inside and he was being allowed to. No coach got on his behind. He should have been pullled immediately and given a mouthful. At the very least pulled. Another sign on bad coaching from this staff. Allowing a player to play with horrible technique and give up key plays time and time again. I don't know coach manning and I know he wasn't a db but this falls on him if he isn't teaching these db's. Hoke first but GMatt and manning shoulder this too. Again countless is an experienced player and should have the IQ to jump and least one of the slant rount and make a play. 

I'd like to see these coaches run some cover 2 as well for these corners but they have to become excellent jammers to do this to give the safety help as he has deep half. The only time a corner should be in press and not jamming is if he has deep thirds and uses "bail" technique. 

The dline is poor coached too. I see no pass rush moves from Frank Clark. It's as if he hasn't been taught any. Im not tooting my horn but i was 8th in the conference in sacks my senior year and it was because my dline coach. I had the athleticism and speed, all that but having moves adds another dimension. Franks best move is a bull rush and when he speed rush's he is way too high. Again there are so many things I can touch on but al in all, this coaching staff isn't good. I can tell a team that has been coached well even if they do not have talent. 

One example id like to use quickly is our free saftey during my day. He was average at best with athleticism but he was coached well. His technique and football iq were off the charts!. He was ALWAYS in position to make the play even if he didn't make it. He was there. He was trusted, he coudl tell you everyone's responsibilites on defense.  I don't see this from anyone on our defense besides Morgan and it's more because of who he is as a player rather than being coached up. 

Another quick point. Since our technique is so bad, this is a reason you never see michigan with "coverage sacks". We are never where we are supposed to be. Yes we lack a team full of patrick peterson but give me good technique and we got something. The best thing about being a db in college football is you are allowed to HIT the receiver until the ball is in the air. DB's should be having a field day out there but they aren't coached to play this way. Every receiver should be rerouted and know he's going to be hit. We are simply not coached correctly. Our db's zone turn when they are in man. That should be second nature

This just hit me as I am watching the Colts game. Roby, the former Ohio Db just made the play to end the game. He got off balance a little but he didn't let his man beat him inside in man coverage forcing a tougher throw and had sometime to recover and break on the ball.

 

RaisedGoBlue

September 8th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^

I will try to answer everyone as best as I can. To the guy who thinks im some michigan troll. Youre wrong buddy. I've been reading this blog for years just never commented. I was raised go blue by my dad because back in his time he said Ohio State didn't recruit the black athletes in northeast Ohio like Michigan did. That upset him and didn't like that about Ohio state and since Michigan did, he was a Michigan fan. That's why my name is Raised Go Blue. I'm from Ohio. The great Amani Toomer is my cousin. If i wanted to prove that to you, i could post a pic at our family reunion years ago. I'm not here to act like some arrogant person. I'm not here to act like i know it all but to give insight. But i do think I qualify to do that. I played the positions at a high level and I was coached by great coaches so I know what the standard should be at places like Michigan. My db coach was my favorite coach. He played at West Virgina. He was tough, crazy, his energy was infectious. You loved him but you knew you better not mess up or he was on your behind. He made average players good players and good great. I know what good coaching can do first hand. I was fornuate to have him and my dline coach. 

To the guy that agreed and disagreed with me, id have to rewatch the game but from what I remember I saw frank get pressure 2 or 3 times off pure speed. I didn't see the one move from him. I saw nothing from the interior lineman. The use of hands are so important at any position especially dline. Lets back track for a sec. I could tell this dline wasn't good with there hands from the "Michigan Drill" video. I can't remember a dline using his hands and 2 gapping anything. No enganging and shedding the blocker. All we saw was a full charge at the blocker hoping to overpower him. Same with the lbs and db's pretty much. No use of the HANDS. Those are your weapons. All of them leading with their shoulder pads and not their HANDS. Watch good dline man, their hand game is crazy. Watch JJ Watt. Boy he can't be blocked because of his hands, not his size and power. 

Pointing out one clark move isn't enough, im sorry. I never see him using his hands. One of the best pass rush moves I was taught by my dline coach who played in NFL and CFL. I forget the correct term but you rush up field and use your outside hand to grab the near shoulder pad of the blocker. You grab it and yank it down causing him to turn sideways and its over. Frank should be rushing with his hands ready to engage and shedding lineman with his hands.Yes it baffles me too how these simple things cannot be taught. It's mind boggling. 

 

MSU is a good example of db play. They are in your face using their hands. Jamming you, rerouting you even when playing off Those plays last year where we wanted pass interference was excellent D to me. You are allowed to be physical at this level and you should. Thats why i enjoy watching them play. You can tell they are coached well all around on D. 

If i was a recruit I would not come to Michigan, even it was my dream school. I hate to act like i know everything but from what I see coaching is bad. No im not in practice but i watch the games. Like my coach use to say "either youre coaching that, or allowing it" We hope its just the second one and they shouldn't be allowing it. 

 

Gholston is good and has a cannon but Saturday was easy for him. Plain and simple he was not forced to make any tight throws and decisions. He went to his first read everytime and hit him. No taking anything away from him but that's too easy. Pitch and catch. If ND wants to 3 step all day, fine but don't let them throw slants. Make him go to his second read and work for it. I can't remember seeing Gholston look left, middle, right and so on. No one expects dline to get pressure on 3 step but I dont' expect dbs to give up 3 step drops completions in man coverage all day either. I said id lik to see Mattison run cover 2, You said he did. I misssed that play but you said they got off the field. Good, thats why I said he should of ran more. These dbs should be coached up to play situational football. its 3rd and 8, you shouldn't be stepping up on playaction, know the chains, know the situation. As a lb in cover 3 you should be thinking 3rd and long, get underneath 1. That means number 1 receiver. A drill our db coach use to make lb's do. Get to one. 2 out look to 1, trust me someone's behind you. 

Kelly is a great offensive coach. I have several friends that played for him at Grand Valley and Chuck Martin. When ND scored on that bubble screen, that was all his GV Days. He loves that play. 

Again it is GMAtt job to put his players in the best position. I don't think he did that since he dind't run enough cover 2 and try to suprise ND. But make no mistake about it, Countless technique was very bad that game and he was being allowed to play that way. Call it what you want but that's unacceptable. 

Indiana Blue

September 8th, 2014 at 7:10 PM ^

Golson missed more pitch and catch throws than he completed.  He hit a perfect 18 yard roll out to a very well covered receiver you barely kept 1 foot inbounds for a big first down. And the post corner TD pass was perfectly thrown - reciever caught the ball at the peak of his leap.  And the slants are not "pitch and catch" throws ... his timing throws were far superior to his pitch and catch throws.  Shit those were the ones he threw at receivers feet or so hard the couldn't catch them.

Go Blue!

Space Coyote

September 8th, 2014 at 3:25 PM ^

Lots of confusion about how Cover 1, and the technique, actually works. Not to simply pub my own site, but I talked about this at length a few weeks ago.

LINK

If you don't believe me because you have some sort of bias against me, here's smart football saying it in less detail

LINK

Here's a guy that played 7 years in the NFL talking about the "jump" technique (something I discussed in an "Adjustments to Cover 1" post)

LINK

Here's that same NFL player discussing Cover 1 in a bit more detail.

LINK

That's with googling "Cover 1 technique football" and about 1 minute of searching. So it's not me spewing drivel. I don't think the person in the OP is a troll, but I also agree with what Steve Sharik said in the other thread about calling out the coaches, as well as his post here about press technique. Like I said, I agree with much of what he said in general, but disagree with some things. Including the DL play, that I thought watching live showed good use of hands, controlled the OL, and shed blocks when they were asked to do so.

RaisedGoBlue

September 8th, 2014 at 3:32 PM ^

I was saying you maybe right. I wasn't focused on the dline as much as i was the db, thats why i missed the move Frank did. But i was saying if they weren't using their hands like they should be, there would have been more pressure on the QB.  Again I'd have to rewatch the game. 

Regardless of technique, I'm saying you can't continue to get beat inside. You just can't. That's too easy. That's all im preaching and countless was letting this happen and the coaches were too. Depending on coverage, you have no help inside and that is a reason you see those slants go for long td's. No help. Countless didn't even try to defend the slant, or jump it. Regardless of technique used. 

TU_DB_8

September 8th, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^

I saw some missed punches on initial contact (stribling) at the press also some missed counter punches when they had the initial hand on the wr and he tried to get back inside.  You don't need to bench 315lbs to press so it's not a matter of strength.  Idk if peppers is the answer at corner from what I’ve seen of him in the scrimmage he reached with both hands an awful lot and lucky for him he is fast and quick enough to recover from making that mistake.  Countess has good footwork I didn't see him press in the scrimmage but his off Tech was good.  Jordan Lewis got called for 2 PI's only one was even close to being a PI he is fine.  Idk if cover 2 is the answer rather see a combo of cover 4 and 2 I know for a fact they ran a lot of cover 4 and cover 6 (4+2) last year. TV coverage makes it hard to see what was going on with the corners rather see some game film.  I’m not too sure this RaisedGoBlue knows what he is talking about, he makes claims he has no evidence to back up.  No coaches got on his behind? How does he know that?  Does he really think Countess doesn't know the obvious things RGB stated like not getting beat inside? Just seems like he is trying to sound like he knows what he is talking about without understanding it.  He never mentions tech on press with inside leverage sure there are various tech's u can use but he never mentions one, was it his lack of initial punch, was it the placement of the punch i.e. not in the arm pit of the wr shoulder? Did he stop his feet at initial contact? The counter punch? All things that you really can’t see on TV coverage, but still no mention.  I question this fella's Football IQ and think he just googled some things in hopes he would sound smart

RaisedGoBlue

September 8th, 2014 at 7:01 PM ^

I never said it was a matter of strengh in bench press to give good jams on the line. Don't put words in my mouth. His punch was weak or non existent. A punch is not just sticking your arms out but making contact forcing the receiver to reroute.Reroute can mean many things. That's why the best receivers come back to the ball even when they have been jammed. I thought lewis played good on both calls. Those aren't PI imo because in college you don't have to turn to look for the ball from my understanding. I did not say cover 2 was the "answer" i said id like to see it played. Also since Kelly loves bubble screens which you should know from his GV days, cover 2 your corner is sitting there and can attack Did you read? Only play more if we become better with our initial punch off the line otherwise our safeties would be screwed in the deep half. 

If countess did know, why would he continue to allow it? Thats my point. No im not in the locker room or meetings. But as I have said, youre either coaching it, or allowing it. I said he did not have an initial punch so i can't comment or where he placed it at. But the initial jam should be at the numbers or breast plate. keeping your body square. I'm not here to break down every coverage and technique. You can google that for yourself since that's all i'd be doing. Again i did mention inside leverage, did you read? can you read? I said we were often taught to cheat inside sometimes. 

Again, id have to watch again, watch each player, figure out the coverage etc. I'm not a GA at michigan so i'm not doing that, i'm talking about the plays i remember him giving up crucial plays. Question my football IQ? In any of my responses, where did it sound like I googled something? Any terms I used? I used bail technique which is what we called it. In cover 2, we used "squat" technique. I dont know if those are household terms, i speak on experience. It's not that serious for me to read this blog for several years , google all the info i can and post a comment. I'm not that lame buddy. 

Youre right, i dont know if the coaches got on him but from the looks of it, it doesn't appear so. Not when you keep making the same mistake over. Because if a coach did, he wouldn't have. So yes my guess is he didn't because he stayed in the game, not jamming the receiver. Usually they cut to a coach getting on a player. Just like when ND player muffed that punt, Kelly and the other assitant were on him. I don't recall him trying that again on another punt return. 

RaisedGoBlue

September 8th, 2014 at 7:55 PM ^

I'm not crying, im laughing at you because you didn't comment on a thing that i replied to. You didn't read, you skimmed and replied and now you look foolish. Now you have nothing to say on the above statements. I said he had a very bad game and i didn't pay attention ln the past like i did in this game. Did you not read that too? 

His technique and iq were very low that game. It shows. I relay that to coaching too. Because Everyone on the field should know situational football. I can't speak on his career because i haven't watched him that closely as i did yesterday. Now youre just trolling trying to be smart. 

His play was unacceptable for an experienced player let alone an all conference player. I think i paid more attention this became because i got tired of them connecting on slants on 3rd and 5,6. I couldn' believe the receiver was releasing so cleanly catch after catch. He didn't earn any of those catches. 

 

UMForLife

September 9th, 2014 at 10:27 AM ^

RaisedGoBlue-- Great stuff. Look forward to hear more from you. And you don't need to prove to no one. I read more than comment on this blog and I enjoy SpaceCoyote's comments. Now we have another one. Great to be a Wolverine fan, except for the last weekend. Go Blue! Fix everything and show us improvement by MSU game and beat them in their own game.