OT-Series Finale
I've just spent the majority of the last 2 days watching the last hours of 2 of my favorite shows, Lost and 24. I don't want to focus on these shows, but more of a general question that may apply to your favorite show.
Do you feel that many times the creator/writers don't want to give the fans what they want when they end their show? I'm married to an artist so I feel I have a little window into the artistic view. I know a happy ending or closure is cliche and reflexively an artist would fight against that, but it seems over the past 20 years they have fought so hard against it the open ended, artistic, sad ending has become cliche. It's like teenagers trying to fight against the mainstream and expressing their individuality, then dressing in the same black clothes.
Writing a finale must be difficult and maybe it's my expectations that let me down, but I can't think of a series finale that has left me satisfied. I love mysteries and twists and the guessing game that comes with it, but in the end after 5 or 6 years of guessing and plotting and investing I want to know everything if it is a mystery, I want my heroes to kick ass, I want my comedies to make me laugh etc....
To quote another great show that left me unsatisfied at the end.
"I don't feel the way I feel after the Risotto, the Risotto makes me full".
I come away very unsatisfied, I want Jack kicking ass, I want to know Tony's fate, I want to know where is Mr. Eko. I want George to make me laugh. The least these people could do is put out the crib notes on the dvd.
I know, I know, use my imagination. I can write my own ending in my head , if I don't like yours, but I invested myself in your vision, give me closure, please. What are your thoughts?
PS If anyone can explain how Vito Corleone knew it was Solozzo all along from attending the meeting I'd appreciate it.
I know, I know, use my imagination. I can write my own ending in my head , if I don't like yours, but I invested myself in your vision, give me closure, please.
I agree 100% with this statement. +1 for that, good sir. It really has become cliche to leave things "up in the air" so to speak. To me, it means the creator/author (whomever) couldn't come up with an ending they truly felt was appropriate or as groundbreaking as the the series itself.
I know they're quite popular, but this is the very reason I typically dislike Cohen Bros. movies.
*Coen
I agree with you for the most part, but I think you are severly underestimating how much the studios, actors and other variables affect the product that is put on the screen. I said it in another thread but in case you missed it I'll say it again. The Lost producers had big plans for Mr. Eko, but the actor didn't want to be part of the show. He wanted out almost as soon as he got in. Now could the producers have added something about Eko into the series finale? Sure, but it would have probably felt forced considering the show hasn't mentioned him in over 3 years. It probably would have taken away from the finale.
Along the same lines, I was listening to an interview between Bill Simmons and one fo the Lost producers and he was just happy that ABC was letting them do the finale their way. He also said he had a friend who had produced 40+ TV shows, and not once had he gotten to end the show on his terms. In the end, I think most producers want to end it in a way that is satisfying to their fans, because they have kept the series alive.
I think Lost got it right, or at least as much as possible considering all the sh*t that has happened over the years. It wasn't a full closure with ever loose end tied up, but I think that having a finale that attempted to do that would have been too chaotic and would have left us feelign open ended with loves of the characters. IMHO at least, giving closure with the characters and leaving viewers with a lasting sense of mystery surrounding the island was the right choice.
That is some pretty good insight. I did not know that about Mr Eko. The finale for Lost was fine, but I would be disappointed if they don't have a special explaining things or 100hours of bonus stuff on the dvd. I don't care if they say "well we thought it was a good idea at 1st, but we boxed ourselves in when we wrote this other part so we just dropped it hoping people wouldn't hold us to it".
The most fascinating thing about Lost to me that I haven't seen addressed is, I would love to know how far the original story developed and if it had an ending. Then I'd like to see where they took it from there and the challenges they faced with contracts like you mentioned and the growth spurt of Walt etc.... I loved when they announced 3 years ago the show had a conclusion date and the story was completed. So many of these shows were great and then ended terribly like The X files I was wary of the money grab drag out of the story.
I was shocked to read that the story for 24 was not completed when they started shooting this season, they just see where the story leads them and work from there.
I'm all for mysteries, but once it is concluded there is nothing left to hide so let out your whole bag. That has been one of the great things about the dvd's where they have the extras or commentaries where you can learn why they did something or how they got to that point.
I read recently that they had devised a storyline that took his character from Season 3 to the end of the show, but that the actor didn't like living in Hawaii and left the show after one season. They then asked him to come back for the finale, at which point he demanded five times the money they were offering and so they passed.
Um, Mr. Eko died. In the episode "The Cost of Living." He's dead. issue resolved.
This is a constant criticism that I just can't get on board with. The writers didn't have enough "TIME" to close up this story. What length of rope did the writers need to not hang themselves? They had 2 full seasons in which they knew when the end was coming... on top of that they had a 2 1/2 hour finale!!! That's 2 and a half episodes of time. How is 2 and a half episodes not enough time to close up some story holes that are gapping wide? Did I really need 5-10 mins spent on each couples reunion piece? After 2-3 of them I got the point. I didn't need each person to have that 'moment'.
And to have closed up some story plots it could have been really easy. They could have tied up Dharma by showing those skeletons in the 'Light' cave with Dharma gear and possible some notes left that explain what they were trying to do. Desmond could've reviewed those notes to figure out what he needed to do... 10-15 mins at most and you would have tied up the potential of the island, with the Dharma initiatives intentions, with why Widmore was there.
From Wikipedia's account of Season 7:
"As the FBI arrests him, Tony curses Jack as a coward and a traitor, and is led away into FBI custody."
Curious - what else would you have liked to see? A courtroom proceeding? Characters on 24 go out in one of 3 ways - death, arrest, or safely disappear somehow (promotion, go off the grid, etc.)
Sometimes, characters are brought back from jail or safety (and in Tony's case, they are even brought back from death). If you never see them again, then you can assume they stayed safe, dead, or in jail and there's no story left for that character.
Sorry I had my own mystery going on.....Tony Soprano not Almeida
Yeah, in that case, I have no idea. ;)
I thought The Shield on FX wrapped things up pretty tightly:
I thought it was agreed that Tony Soprano got whacked. I would have preferred the slight sound of a gunshot just as the screen went black. That would have been more realistic, and would have been more obvious to the audience what happened.
Not hardly. I'm not sure that's the way the creator want us to believe it went down anyway, as he didn't want a tidy little ending. Or the assumption of justice.
I've been DVR-ing and watching reruns of The West Wing (it's on Bravo from 8-10 a.m. ET), which was a truly awesome show. The show took a gigantic hit when one of its actors, John Spencer, died suddenly before the last few episodes. Story-wise, his character was the VP candidate in the presidential election that marked the end of the term of the president in office throughout the show's run. The writers managed to weave the death into a compelling story line, placing the death on election day while polls in the west are still open, leaving the entire thing up to a few votes in Nevada. The series ends with the inauguration of the new president, and with the old president pardoning a friend and former advisor, after much anguish. Given the suddenness of Spencer's death, I have to say that the swan song of this great series was done brilliantly.
When a show I've loved for years comes to an end, I try not to get my expectations up too high about its send-off. Most likely, I am going to be disappointed. But I give the above example as a case where I was not.
The only finale that has ever satisfied me was Scrubs (the real finale, forgetting this last year even happened). It closed things up perfectly and felt like the perfect end to the series
Everyone has a different idea what THEY want to be the ending. So the "artist", if they can (and the post above about all the influences is right on), has to do what they feel is right for the work. And worst case, everyone hates it, like the Sopranos. And in best case, you get the 7:00 mark-
the wife and i watched the series finale for law & order and it was horrible for a shows last ever episode... i don't blame the writers for the show because it was only supposed to be the season finale and it wasn't until a week ago that NBC decided to end the run... NBC shit the bed on this one big time, how do you let a show that has been on your air waves for the last 20 season just end without closure??? but i did read this morning that there are talks going on to have a 2 hour made for tv movie to properly close it out...
As for 24.... another outstanding series that I've been glued to every Monday.... I'm pretty satisfied with the finale. I did sorta halfway expect Tony to show up here at the end. But the president came to her senses, Jack and Chloe had an intense (if predictable) standoff, and that snake Logan got what was coming to him, even if by his own bullet. I hear there's a movie in the works, and I do hope it will be a continuation, because in true 24 fashion, they left the end open for it.
The show could have easily ended with closure. But IMO, to have had the show end with world peace and all the good guys being cheered as heroes... WAY too cheesy, not to mention uncharacteristic.
I do hope that when the CTU set was dismantled, they didn't forget that Stephen Root's body was stuffed in a ventilation duct.... :)
Great show. I'll miss it for sure.
I loved 24 and I didn't want a cheesy world group hug that would have been horrible, but what I did want was some more classic twists in the end, I thought for sure the guys getting him from the ambulance were Jack's own guys and that was his escape route. I would have like to see some peace for Jack at the end, but most of all I wanted Jack to continue pushing and not accepting his fate. I wanted to see him hanging from the ceiling trying to escape, I don't like to see my heroes pack it up.
Finale was ok and I like the sentiment at the end, but I wanted Jack to get himself out of there by himself and not a phone call and I needed an out of this world twist like his dad was still alive or the Chineese guy Chang was behind it all or he was able to get Tony out to help him. That's what 24 has been about and I thought they played it too straight. Also, not enough focus on Jack at the end it was more the world leaders.
not Solozzo .
I had the same question for a while, so I watched it a few times a couple weeks back. I BELIEVE he knew because of the way Barzini did the bartering for the two sides in the meeting and most the talking (see below). He made sure the needs were accomodated for Corleone, Tatalia etc.
Lastly, once again after much deliberation IMHO Tony Soprano is dead. They just couldn't bring themselves to kill him off on the screen as he was too beloved of a bad guy.
Thanks, I can't believe I screwed up the names, I'm blaming my QC staff. Heads will be rolling.
After seeing it so many times I tend to agree with you on your analysis, but it's one of those things I've always wished they would explain more on the DVD. They cut the rest of the scene or something. Seems like a big point to leave to interpretation.
His speech at the table explaining the conditions of this agreement is one of my favorites along with A Few Good Men.
"
Futurama had a great series finale when it ended. That said, I can't wait for Comedy Central's new episodes this summer.