Props to Tate Forcier
I just think it's worth taking a moment to show Tate Forcier some love today. As a competitor, it must be so frustrating for him right now. With a lesser QB, we might be dealing with a public tantrum.
But as far as I've heard and seen, he has handled his recent demotion with class, putting the team first.
Though I'd never wish injury upon anyone (especially Denard), we may need Tate. And lord knows he did some great things for us in the past. If called upon, it's nice knowing we've got a talented, team-first guy waiting in the wings. As I recall, Brian Griese was benched at one point. Things worked out pretty well for him in the end.
Go blue! Hang in there Tate!
September 5th, 2010 at 8:41 PM ^
"The ABC crew yesterday made it seem like Tate was sitting on the bench sulking while everyone was celebrating."
He was.
"The question I have is this: was Tate sitting there of his own volition; or was he told to sit there by the coaching staff."
I guess anythings possible & without being privy to the (if there was one) conversation, one would never know. However that would be an extremely odd "punishment".
September 5th, 2010 at 9:09 PM ^
It would be an odd punishment. The more I think about it, the more it is just what it appeared to be: former #1 QB is upset about being demoted and goes and sulks on the bench to show everyone how upset he is, perhaps hoping someone will notice and think he is being mistreated. He is behaving like a 13 year old schoolgirl. Towel wrapped around his head without a drop of sweat on him.
A real man and a real leader would have been the first to congratulate Denard and would have been leading the cheers of his team mates.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:24 PM ^
He has some maturing to do, but we all did/do @ 19. I also, as expressed in my previous post don't think "giving him props" or making excuses for him are gonna help him in his maturation process.
The young man (19 is hardly a "kid" IMO) made a mistake in how he handled yesterday, but his story has yet to be finished. I wish him nothing but the best & hope he is thankful for the opportunities he's been afforded.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:38 PM ^
19 is hardly a "kid" IMO
I've found that the definition of "kid" broadens as I get older. Unfortunately. 19 is perhaps old enough to be responsible for your actions in a legal sense, but most people are far from mature at that age.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:01 PM ^
Not to mention that he actually turned 20 over the summer.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^
I know I wasn't. Hell I'm over 30 now & still have areas that need "work". just ask my wife.. :-)
September 5th, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^
I remember a party I was at when I was 19. Got dumped by a girlfiriend at that party, and I spent the whole rest of the evening being sullen and sulking while everyone else was having fun and enjoying themselves. I ruined two or three other people's evenings who tried to come over and consol me and and engage me and pull me into the group, including the host of the party. I blew them all off, and got more and more sulky and emo. I was misserable and going to show everyone and let them all know that the @#$%^&* bitch dumped me and how dare she have fun with my friends at the party I invited her to, blah blah. blah. The picture of me sulking is still vivid in my mind today. Probably the most self absorbed moment of my life.
To this day, 24 years later, I still look back on that day with regret for how I handled myself. I made an ass of myself. It was selfish and unncessary. I made a scene of my personal "stuff." It took a few years for me to see it, but when I did, I made a promise to myself that I would not be so selfish again, no matter how much I was hurting. It can be a hard thing to remember when you are smarting, but even when you are in pain, you are not the centre of the universe and there are often things going on around you that are more important that your pain and you simply need to suck it up in the moment. The time to deal with it will come at more important time. I was only 19 at the time, but it does not excuse it. Thank goodness it was not caught on ABC...
September 5th, 2010 at 8:24 PM ^
September 5th, 2010 at 8:19 PM ^
He watched DRob solidify his grasp on the starting job and probably realized that just how far he has to go to unseat DRob as starter.
I remain shocked that Gardener was put in ahead of him, being a true freshman vs. Tate's year of experience. I mean DG promptly went out and lost 4 yards on the first play... I'm sure he's more athletic than Tate, but I have a hard time believing he understands the offense more than Tate.
It's all up to Tate. He has to decide what he really wants. If he wants to go somewhere where he'll get playing time, it probably won't be here. If he wants a degree that says Michigan on it instead of Joe Bob's Diploma Shack, he'll tough it out. I don't know how much a shot at the NFL is in his future, but sitting on the bench won't help there.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:58 PM ^
The key for me is not so much Tate's chronological age but his year in college. It is usually from being away from home for the first time and from learning through the shared experiences of interacting with diverse groups of people from all over the world, teammates, coaches and professors in the college environment that tremendous growth and maturity occur from Freshman year to Sophmore year. The fact that it appears he has experienced very little growth and maturity from his year in college is troubling.
September 5th, 2010 at 8:22 PM ^
Instead of seeing someone handle the situation with dignity and class, I saw a kid used to getting everything sitting on the bench away from his teammates and pouting. Pretty pathetic when you are the only one sitting on the bench with a towel over your head, while everyone else on the team is standing and into the game. Saying that, I wish nothing but the best for Tate and I know he is a good talent, but it's time to grow up.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:04 PM ^
I agree to a point, but we was cheering for most of the game - he clearly was bothered about the situation and handled it badly, but does a public moment of poor judgment erase all the good he displayed last year (playing through pain, accepting a leadership role while DR was allowed to grow in the offense, being the face [and at times brunt] of the fan's expectations as the coaches' ire)?
I know what you are trying to say, but I take issue with all of the revisionist history found here and at other boards - Tate made the best out of a bad situation last year, screwed up a bit in the offseason, and now everyone is treating him like a bad apple who should be dropped from the team because shiny new Robinson won a game against UConn. So what happens next week if DR struggles against ND and Tate comes in and leads the team to victory? Do we congratulate him for keeping his head up, focusing on the game plan and winning, or is he still a bad apple who just lucked into a win? And what of Robinson - if he throws 3 picks and fumbles once, is he now a waste and someone who should be relegated to the bench?
My point is that maybe we should all step back a bit from the situation and stop crowning the next king of UM football on a per-week basis.
September 5th, 2010 at 8:48 PM ^
Nor do I care about "teaching Tate a lesson." I don't have any lessons to teach Tate Forcier.
I want Forcier to get better, and be the best quarterback he can be. For our team. I want our three-deep guys to be able to beat most other teams in the Big Ten. That, I assure all, is what made Bo's 1970's teams so powerful. Of the top ten tailbacks in the Big Ten in those days, it was typical that four of them would be on scholarship to Michigan, and three to Ohio State, with a few others scattered around the Conference. That is what you could do with 120 scholarships.
The thing that bothered me yesterday was not that Tate didn't play, or that Devin did play, or that Denard played too much. What I thought was strange, was that the only guy who was really engaged on the sidelines was not Devin, or Tate, but fourth-string QB Jack Kennedy, who was the play-caller for Rich Rodriguez.
September 5th, 2010 at 8:52 PM ^
Cone was always the guy on the headset too. Sheridan was the guy on the headset last year.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:32 PM ^
fourth-string QB Jack Kennedy, who was the play-caller for Rich Rodriguez
What what what?
Fire RichRod. Hire Jack Kennedy!
But seriously, yeah, if you aren't planning to have TF playing, then at least keep him engaged by having he headset on. Would have at least kept him occupied and he wouldn't have gone off pouting on his own.
September 5th, 2010 at 8:52 PM ^
in those circumstances at least, and RR is gambling a bit that a talented albeit immature QB may just throw in the towel and leave.
That being said, TF has made it easy for the coaching staff, if not his teammates, to shunt him aside in favor of DR and DG. Both in the summer and in the game yesterday he exhibited few of the qualities that you expect from a real leader.
For the good of the team, Tate, the coaching staff, and Tate's family have to somehow work together to get things on the right track. We may need him, and it could be as soon as next weekend.
September 5th, 2010 at 8:55 PM ^
Then he should play. PERIOD.
Everyone questioned him when Denard was #1 on the depth chart coming into the season (myself included until the whispers became a roar). I think that he knows what he's doing.
DG will continue to get tons of playing time probably not next week against ND but against UMass and BGSU.
Also if the wind like it was yesterday RR didn't immediately know how long that DR would be out for. So who do you put in when the wind is blowing like that when you know that you will just be mostly running the ball? Oh right the guy who is a better runner.
THAT is IMO why Tate didn't play because it was windy as shit and Denard lit shit up!
September 5th, 2010 at 9:02 PM ^
So RichRod didn't play the guy who started 12 games last year, and instead played a true freshman (burning his redshirt and a bridge with Tate) because it was windy out???? Sounds like you put a lot of thought into this hypothesis.
I'm interested in what your theories about LOST were.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:08 PM ^
Most people would probably say that given Tate's experience and success last year there's no way DG would be ahead of him on the depth chart on merit alone, but I think people are discounting the possibility that Tate regressed over the summer. When Tate first got to campus, he'd been training intensively with Marinovich, his qb coach and had 9 months to get ready for his first start, which if reports are to be believed, he spent very productively. This summer, obviously, he slacked. Again, I think it's quite possible he's regressed.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:35 PM ^
He may have regressed a bit over the summer, but I severely doubt he was worse than DG. All of the summer and fall reports said Denard was the clear #1 and that while DG was making strides, Tate clearly had a better grasp of the offense and was still making plays.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:46 PM ^
Hey, I agree, it's not the most likely scenario, but neither was Denard running away (PUN) with the starting job.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:06 PM ^
I agree. I would have kept that bullet in the chamber. To his credit, though, Rodriguez is one consistent, honest, stubborn mofo. He told Gardner that he'd play if ready, and he kept his word. This difference of opinion is perhaps why Rodriguez is more successful in his career path than I will ever be in mine.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:01 PM ^
I'm sanguine on the Forcier issue. He handled this game the best that he could, and that may say something about who he is. But transferring because he was the 2B choice behind Gardner would be unwise. It's not as if all the articles today are about how Gardner's two snaps (One snap? Don't recall completely) cemented him as the backup. Others have mentioned how likely it is the backup will play significant minutes this year.
But if Forcier has a starter-or-bust mindset, that's fine. It's worth mentioning, though, that both his brothers stepped down academically* to find playing time when the chances of earning money playing football were slim. I'll say this delicately: I hope whoever is advising Forcier mentions that factor.
*Unnecessary disclaimers: Jason only slightly. Based on USNWR rankings. Debates re: reliability of said rankings undesirable and pointless.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:04 PM ^
Tate Forcier may very well deserve whatever treatment he gets from his coaches and teammates, but he does not deserve this thread. I would wager that not one of us can claim to understand what he is experiencing and we should therefore probably just shut up and let the situation play out.
All of you who claim he is "pouting" or "childish" or "selfish" or other such made-up tripe bring shame upon yourselves. He is 19.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:15 PM ^
If Forcier comes to this thread for advice, his decision making is suspect. Taking advice from some guy on the 'tubes whose avatar is a luscious booty does not augur positive expectation. That being said, I voted in favor of your comment on general "personal attacks against college kids are unsavory" grounds. Principled criticism or hypothesizing is allowed, though, no?
September 5th, 2010 at 9:34 PM ^
makes him above reproach?
September 5th, 2010 at 9:06 PM ^
imagine how Matt Guttirez felt. he lost his starting job to injury and never got it back. Tate either needs to be all in and commit to making himself and the team better or leave. We dont need this distraction all year long.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:49 PM ^
September 5th, 2010 at 9:16 PM ^
Say what you will about him, but he was the first QB in the RichRod era to give us hope.
RichRod needed a true freshman(!) to come in and be ready to lead the offense, and he did a damn good job, especially accounting for his injury.
Sometimes you have the right to feel entitled, even if you are about to learn that life offers no such guarantees.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:24 PM ^
He's acting like the kid that you played football with at the park but because he didnt get thrown to every play he took his ball and went home.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:40 PM ^
really hits home. In retrospect I think the best possible thing happened for Tate. DRob had a huge game and its shows him that hard work really pays off and that if he wants it bad enough he's going to have to bust his ass.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:48 PM ^
Remembering this:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=rivals-1112882
and in particular, this:
“I’ve had quite a few talks with Tate and some of the other guys and said if you’re a true competitor, you’ll respond to it,” Rodriguez said. “So far he has. He’s responded … he’s not sulking and laying back. He’s working his way back and trying to prove himself.”
I find it odd that Tate appeared to be sulking during the game - [EDIT I mean, it's inconsistent with the above]. I guess he thought he was going to earn the starting job back and was probably surprised that he didn't get it back. He was probably stunned at the success DRob had and realized that he has a long way to go before he plays again.
But of course this is the first game. DRob could get hurt. Gardener will, IMO, inevitably look like the freshman he is at some point. Thus Tate will probably get another chance, if he sticks around.
September 5th, 2010 at 9:53 PM ^
there are like 10 different ways that people spell that name. Thanks for seeing my point though.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:01 PM ^
You should probably start using the Reply button.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:13 PM ^
September 5th, 2010 at 10:19 PM ^
its like Johnson, Johnsen, Johnsan..
Either way I was just here for the conversation not the pissing match.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:43 PM ^
September 5th, 2010 at 10:04 PM ^
Some of the posts in this thread are very disturbing. All the veiled (and not so veiled) references to Denard getting hurt are quite troubling. And notice how some of those people call him "Robinson" in their posts. Clearly showing a latent dislike for a guy who may be the most likeable guy on the team. Like him or not, he is our quarterback. And he is proving to be a damn good one at that. How about wishing the guy well instead of wishing harm upon him. How about being ALL IN.
Anyhow, I saw the below great post elsewhere and thought I would post it here:
I don't know if it was intentional or not (I believe it was), but RR did Tate Forcier a favor by allowing him to save a year of eligibility if he does decide to transfer. Remember, although UM played a game yesterday, Forcier didn't. If he had put TF in yesterday for 1 or 2 snaps, he would have lost a year of eligibility. Now if he does decide to transfer, he'll still have 3 years available wherever he goes, as opposed to two.
I, for one, don't believe Gardner beat Forcier out on the field. He'll be a good one, one day. But I highly doubt he's a better QB than Forcier (even for the Michigan offense) right now. Forcier being "demoted" to 3rd string was mostly about DR's performance on the field and in summer drills, and Forcier's lack of leadership and commitment in the off-season, as well as his general lack of maturity and attitude problems.
RR basically sent a message to him yesterday. And that message was: 1) this is your punishment for BS'ing all summer; you don't just waltz back in here and expect to lead a team after what you did; and 2) You can see this is Denard's show now; and we don't want any distractions the rest of the way. Either you're on board or you're not, but I'm giving you a fair opportunity to get out now (because I know your family's history of transferring) without wasting a year of your eligibility on 1 or 2 snaps.
RR is showing he's a fair and somewhat compassionate man and didn't want to hurt the kid any more. If Forcier comes in and burns a year of eligibility on a handful of injury-related snaps, does that do him any good? Now he can make his decision this week as to what he wants to do the rest of the way. If he had played yesterday, he'd have been f'ed.
Regardless of that though, Forcier's actions were reprehensible and he should be suspended for a game --- or at the least, have a good talking to. We don't need that type of nonsense going forward.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:17 PM ^
DG's redshirt being burned was brought up on this thread and I believe RR's motive is clear. The earlier he gets in, the more experience he gets for the B10 season when he WILL be needed. DR may get nicked up from time to time maybe and it may be at critical points in some big games. I think RR is very smart here. He knows Devin is a quick study and there is no substitute for experience. Tate can't be counted on to even be on the team, obviously exhibited Saturday. RR is getting Devin ready. Smart move.
September 5th, 2010 at 10:30 PM ^
Really? From what I heard/saw he's handling it terribly. Pouting on the sidelines, not really contributing to the win or talking to the teammates, standing isolated when the rest of the team gathers in the end zone to hear The Victors at the end of the game. Sure, he could have handled it a lot worse, but he's supposed to be a Michigan Man, he should have handled it a lot better.
Everything was fine and him and DRob seemed to be pumping each other up when he was the starter, but now that the (untied) shoe is on the other foot he won't support Denard? He is selfish, and personally I really don't care whether he leaves or not.
September 6th, 2010 at 1:14 AM ^
Tate didn't get it done over the summer. Clearly he did something that was bad enough to warrant losing his wings. Did people really think he would be rewarded with the start? I'm guessing he wa "suspended" 1 game at a minimum.
So, who do you play? Whoever's next on the depth chart. DG. He planned on using him this year either way. I don't see it as a big deal. "Coach's decision" also points in the direction of a disciplinary decision.
September 6th, 2010 at 4:51 AM ^
Its so crazy and stupid how people discredit Tate now but last year he was a hero and up for a Hiesman. I think Tate is more talented than Denard and at the end of the day is going to be more successful. He has a better chance at ending up in the NFL and if he transfers mark my words that that will be the biggest mistake of Rich Rod and that will come back to haunt him. We can all say the team the team but 90% of these kids go to Michigan or any other school to get prepared for the NFL. Im sure they want the team to but its not just that. If any of you were the starting quarterback at Michigan one year and the next got behind a true freshman who clearly is not ahead, you would have acted the same way. I know i probably will get a lot of negging for this but i really dont care. Im fed up with all the BS that gets thrown at the guys who are still playing for us but if he transfers and Denard gets injured we will all bitch and moan how if we had Tate we would have won the games that the freshman QB is going to lose...
Have a nice day
September 6th, 2010 at 5:03 AM ^
I for one am glad he didnt baby his ass. this isnt anybodys fault but Tates. It was his decison not spend additional time in the weight room, it was his decison to not work on fine tuning his game. How many times have you ever of another player calling out the previous seasons starting Qb? To me that says he was really half assing it and didnt care enough about making the team better. By Tate leaving it tells me he either doesnt think he can win back the job or doesnt want to try. Either way it ends up I'd rather have a decision sooner than later. This team doesnt need anymore distractions.
September 6th, 2010 at 7:45 AM ^
I don't know if the coaches ordered tate to sit on the bench(as 1 game punishment/suspension)but if so he should be thankful,to not have someone like Mike Leach as his coach.
September 6th, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^
You'd think the kid played for OSU the way some of you guys are grilling the shit out of him. Yeah, he was upset that he didn't get to play and quite possibly saw his dreams of playing in the NFL crushed by a kid made of dilithium. Maybe he didn't work out quite as hard as he could have during the summer but Holy Angry Michigan Safety Hating God some of you people are just being complete asses to the kid. Yeah, ok, maybe he didn't make the best decisions but he's still a Michigan Wolverine and when times are tough we shouldn't beat the shit out of him. We should encourage him to do better and make it back on the field and keep his chin up. Goodness...
September 6th, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^
stating the obvious, but he has to learn that he'll always have to work his ass off to physically improve and be a leader as well as execute the offense. i was on the tater express, but after watching him this game and seeing his comments, he needs to mature.