OT - Any umpires out there?
I saw an interesting scrum last night at my kid's middle school baseball game. A 20 hopper was hit down the 1st base line. It followed the first baseline about 6" in till about 2 feet before first base. At that point it hit something and went airborne and veered over to the foul side of the line. The first baseman was standing on his bag - both feet in fair territory - and caught it in mid air with it never touching the ground in foul territory. The ump called the runner out and the batting team's coaches went nuts.
I was under the impression that as long as no part of a defender's body is in foul territory and the ball has not yet touched anything in foul territory the defender can grab it in mid air and make a play. The coaches seemed to diagree, obviously.
I know there's a few real umps on this board so I'd like to hear what the right call is.
We are going quite a ways OT here, so I will wrap it up with this post.
I posted on a softball umpire's forum that I belong to, asking this question. Several umpires that responded (guys that call both adult and youth, both fast and slowpitch), agreed with me that not all youth fastpitch softball games are played under the same rule set. Some leagues/tournaments use the USSSA rules, some use ASA rules, etc.
To me, the bottom line is that the USSSA rulebook and ASA rulebook that I linked above are different rulebooks, and have different rules. MOST of those different rules apply for all forms of the game of softball, be it youth, adult, fastpitch, or slowpitch. There are some exceptions where a rule applies to slowpitch ball only, but they are realtively few.
Maybe we will have to agree to disagree, but I have gone ahead and sought the opinions of some people that I know possess a huge knowledge of the game, and they tell me that the youth fastpitch rule set is not universal, so I am going to believe that (and the words printed in the rulebooks) until I have really good reason to think otherwise.
That is all.
Based on the description it is foul. However, where the ball was when the player first touched it is the key. Where is glove ends up after the catch doesn't matter. If the ball was curving foul and the umpire called it fair based on where the ball was when it was first touched, he was correct. If he made the call fair based on where the players body was when he landed i.e. "inbounds" then he was incorrect.
Tough call for a ump on a curving foul hop with a player touching it across the line.
I used to umpire youth baseball. The ball would be foul, and even if the umpire screwed up, the youth baseball umpire's handbook basically states that whatever the umpire decides is the right call, nomatter what. So if the ump ruled it fair, it's a fair ball. If he doesn't have his handbook ready, which he's supposed to, then his ruling is the one that counts.
In all honesty I've never met a coach who would go off on me whose kid didn't absolutely suck at baseball. The worst teams with players destined for hipsterdom always had the most annoying parents.
I umpire. Remember its a judgement call which cannot be appealed. If in the home plate umpires judgement the ball was going to go over the 1B bag then it is fair. If he thinks it would not pass over 1B then it is foul. There is no relevence to the position of the fielder or where his feet are. Also if it touches a fielder before it passes 1B and then goes foul it is a fair ball. But again, judgement calls are not able to be appealed and the middle school coach should slow his role.
Foul Ball.
I umped Rec Softball. The rules might be slightly different. As mentioned by the other umps in the thread the judgment is made on where the ball was when it stopped (a fielder making a play on it is an example of a ball being stopped).
Think of it this way: draw a picture of the play in your mind. Note the ball bouncing to deaden a catch attempt, and then where the ball stopped outside the line.
Doesn't matter where the fielder is. That's more about leaving the field of play, i.e. going into the stands for pro, or if you're on Elbel, when the play was made on the porch of Revelli or the middle of the volleyball game.
I would like to try. Go ahead and start a thread.
I think this is answer by the rules everyone has put forth. When an umpire calls a ball fair because it goes over the base, that same rationale would apply if the first baseman was standing in FOUL territory and caught it and vice versa.
Read the thread about the new point system, and then this thread. That's what I did, and I'm still debating which is more complicated and arcane: the rules of baseball or the new MGoBlog rating system.
[Edit: by the way, based on my long-ago experience as a Little League umpire, I agree with the consensus and say, Foul Ball!]