stands out to me as one of the guys playing all out each play. Green seems to be running the ball a lot harder each week, just add a little shiftiness young man.
I could see either Mattison or Nussmeier taking over as an interim coach.
Since we seem to bouncing different scenarios off of the wall lately. What about Roy Manning as interim coach??? I know it won't happen, just curious what people think.
and it's another to look at multiple plays where there is a significant rotational stress to the left knee and ankle that can cause significant injury. The point is that there was nothing to gain by leaving the kid out there. This leads to an overwhelming trend that the head guy in charge does not seem to exercise common sense or have any clue about the overall context of each game. Why was Devin Funchess playing in the last two minutes of the Notre Dame game???
leaving a guy in so he can get his hard knocks and learn from mistakes and letting him get killed. I get when you leave a guy out there similar to baseball where a young pitcher is struggling and you know he won't achieve success, but is out there solely to get in more reps and gain experience. When you have a guys hobbling around, similar to funchessand morris who may have a serious knee or ankle or injuries, there's no excuse to leave a kid out there. I work with athletes who say that they are fine and one can tell that they are in pain or are not 100%. That's the whole point of one: being an adult and looking out for the safety of a young athlete, two: having common sense to see when someone is limping around that it is time to get them out and protect their health because clearly they are injured. It seemed like Hoke just checked out and mentally hid in a corner while the ship was sinking.
I don't see how things can get much worse. Hoke does not seem competent in managing games let alone the team. Last year was a joke to see how the team was handled during the Penn St, Iowa, Nebraska and Northwestern games.
from the App state game, then I would expect him to have issues for the next month at least especially if he re-injured that ankle. Depending on his history of injuries in high school, can also play a role in how well he recovers. The first time versus the 20th time rolling my ankle was significantly different in how long I wasn't able to play a sport or walk around without too much pain. Hopefully he has a speedy recovery.
I do remember hearing comments about Gabe Watson's work ethic at times. If I recall there were times where Coach Carr called him out for his consistency. You are absolutely right that there are a lot of guys that can get by on athletic tangibles alone.
The main point I was getting at was that perception of strength and conditioning and the approach big name guys took to compete and get better was due to competition within your team and wanting to be elite so you could get drafted. I remember hearing guys talk about how intense Larry Foote used to be in workouts.
I'm sure there is intensity and competition in practice with the current team. My question or curiosity would be how does the current team dynamics and workouts compare to that of Michigan teams in the past that had success?
Hoke was around the team in 97, so you would think he has a good blue print to work off of. The trouble may be, that the blueprint for success in 97 is out of date with the current college football scheme.
my roommates who were walk ons complained about Giddleson because he killed them in workouts. I had a few friends that were on scholarship that felt the opposite about the guy saying that they liked the guy and knew he was punishing them in the weight room to get them ready to compete at the next level so they could make the NFL.
It boils down to having the mindset that you have to want to work to get better and that results are not going to handed to you because you are a 5 star recruit coming in to a rebuilding program.
If you look at Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. The team has an identity set by their head coach and one can tell that there is a atmosphere is strict disclipline and zero tolerance football wise. In terms of personal conduct, that depends on how good you are on the field, i.e Dorial green Beckham
can anyone explain what has happened with the O line recruits other than lack of development with some insight? I know Fox had an ACL repair two years ago, Kugler IIRC had a RTC or Labral repair.
Unless there are issues with injury or still trying to improve strength after rehabbing for 6-12 months from shoulder surgery, I don't understand how Kalis and Kugler are not getting time.
is the main problem with this team. How many true or red shirt seniors are playing today? The team is still young, which explains the stuggles. I thought Michigan would be a 9-3 or 8-4 team this year and wasn't all that excited due to the fact that I knew the league would come down to MSU or OSU.
The main thing I wanted to see this year was a steady improvement over the course of the this season so next year's team could realistically contend for a Big Ten title.
I think he is getting at the atmosphere/attitude reflecting players just showing up versus trying to improve each week. From the time I was there I remember the thought process of the big time players/recruits was to keep getting better to make it to the league. The few times I got to work out at Schembechler Hall with a couple buddies that played for coach Carr you would see guys coming in on their own without any coaches or trainers working out.
Part of the problem has been that when you come in and play as a freshman or sophmore for a struggling team, it is easier to get complacent because no one is challenging you for your spot. Think about teams like Alabama who have stud Jr's or Sr's that set the tone for the younger guys to learn the ropes and compete to possibly replace them one day. As the depth continues to improve, I think you will see guys working and pushing themselves even harder to keep or earn playing time. Think about a guy like Magnuson or Braden who ideally should still be 2nd team players for a team with an O-line like Long, Krause, etc.
At the end of the day, the head coach does set the tone, so it is a reflection/responsibility of the coach to correct that if what Desmond is saying is true.
but I felt that Morris showed some very good things (granted he was playing garbage time against a defense that had backed off in pressure). The ball protection while running and overthrowing errors will improve with more experience. I would like to see him get more reps this year.
Gardner, nor any 18-22 year old, should never be the target of any personal attacks (due to athletic endeavors) especially by Adults who couldn't do half of what they do on a good day. From year one to now, he hasn't had a consistent coaching scheme, position, or offensive line protection. I think Gardner could have a future in the NFL as an athlete similar to Randle-El of Indiana. My ideal situation would be Gardner at Wide receiver to compliment funchess. Bellomy and speight are your back ups to morris. I think it gives gardner a better shot at bolstering his resume to apply for playing in the NFL as an athlete/receiver.
I don't see Hoke and co. switching Gardner to WR at this stage due to pride and how perception will be of their control of personnel, but that to me gives the program a chance of salvaging the season to an extent.
I think everyone agrees that coaching changes need to occur, but there is talent to give hope for the near future for the program.
Offense:
The OL has young talent to fill in over the next two years. OL: has cole, magnuson, kugler, kalis and braden as well as Fox, Bosch (hopefully he returns), dawson, Tuley-tilman.
Rb 's look to be in good shape as Green has showed gradual progress from weeks 1-4. Smith and Isaac aren't bad options to have.
WR: Funchess is a stud, if he returns, the offense upgrades next year. The knee issue makes his early departure to the NFL questionable. He may see his first round status drop this year and decide to come back next year. Canteen looks legit. Darboh and Chesson appear to be less athletic/talent avant type receivers. The x-factor in my opinion will be Drake Harris or Brian Cole (athletic game changer to compliment funchess).
TE's are set with Jake Butt and Ian Bunting. Hopefully a combination of Wheatley or clark adds depth from this years class.
Defense:
I like the depth at defense and think that they are a year or two away from being dominant.
I think a majority of pro coaches would only want to come to back to college if they had a lack of success like Saban or Pitino or are looking for a less stressful environment where they can settle down for a few years before retiring i.e. Mattison, Larry Brown SMU. I don't see Harbaugh in that group and I would also think that handling grown prima donna's would be a lot better than kissing a bunch of arrogant 18 year olds asses to commit to your program, then still have to commit time and hope they develop.
as a DC or possible head coach if Mattison were to leave due to a possible Hoke firing. I hate Michigan State, but narduzzi seems to be able to develop talent and imagine the Defense that guy could put together with Michigan's recent recruiting classes. I'm not comparing Dantonio to Woody, but that would be a possible Bo-Woody type rivalry with Narduzzi coming to Michigan. I don't think either is going to be here, but both would definitely be interesting.
Looking at the 2012 recruiting classes would be a fair comparison to Hoke vs. Dantonio. I don't follow state too closely, but it seems michigan has been playing more of the 2012 guys than state. It would be interesting to compare the development of both classes in the next couple of years to really see a difference in development and schemes to maximize talent. Any thoughts?
Brandon will not get canned this year, that is why turning over the team to Nussmeier is the most viable option since it allows Brandon to save face and be able to say one of his guys is still the coach. I'm curious to see what happens to Mattison if Hoke is gone.
Matt Doherty for UNC basketball, hell of a recruiter but cannot cut it as a coach or develop talent. I thought this year would be a struggle, but was willing to give Hoke the benefit of the doubt if the team showed gradual improvement throughout the season, but that is clearly not happening. I think you allow Nussmeier to continue to implement his system and maintain most of the recruiting class. He should a servicable defense next year, solid running backs and develop morris this season. If two or three of the line recruits from the previous two classes develop, the team could easily win 9-10 games next year. I think Nussmeier could have a winning team for two to three seasons and hopefully a prime coaching candidate is available by then if nussmeier doesn't work out for competing nationally.
I think Nuss should be given the team for the rest of the year. He may be able to progress morris and salvage the recruiting class. I don't see Michigan getting a significant player for coaching, especialy not the Harbaughs or Miles. I don't think it will be ten years to improve as one poster put it, but more realistically, 2-3. That's under the premise that talent actually develops.
Recent Comments
solid 15 yards after contact. No pressure on Nova.
stands out to me as one of the guys playing all out each play. Green seems to be running the ball a lot harder each week, just add a little shiftiness young man.
I could see either Mattison or Nussmeier taking over as an interim coach.
Since we seem to bouncing different scenarios off of the wall lately. What about Roy Manning as interim coach??? I know it won't happen, just curious what people think.
68-67 record at Rutgers, keep the mediocrity train rolling for another four years before our next head coacing change.
I can't argue against you, but who do we put in there now mid-season? Mattison?
and it's another to look at multiple plays where there is a significant rotational stress to the left knee and ankle that can cause significant injury. The point is that there was nothing to gain by leaving the kid out there. This leads to an overwhelming trend that the head guy in charge does not seem to exercise common sense or have any clue about the overall context of each game. Why was Devin Funchess playing in the last two minutes of the Notre Dame game???
leaving a guy in so he can get his hard knocks and learn from mistakes and letting him get killed. I get when you leave a guy out there similar to baseball where a young pitcher is struggling and you know he won't achieve success, but is out there solely to get in more reps and gain experience. When you have a guys hobbling around, similar to funchessand morris who may have a serious knee or ankle or injuries, there's no excuse to leave a kid out there. I work with athletes who say that they are fine and one can tell that they are in pain or are not 100%. That's the whole point of one: being an adult and looking out for the safety of a young athlete, two: having common sense to see when someone is limping around that it is time to get them out and protect their health because clearly they are injured. It seemed like Hoke just checked out and mentally hid in a corner while the ship was sinking.
I don't see how things can get much worse. Hoke does not seem competent in managing games let alone the team. Last year was a joke to see how the team was handled during the Penn St, Iowa, Nebraska and Northwestern games.
with a half way decent O Line should be promising.
Hagerup is hitting his stride at just the right time lol
from the App state game, then I would expect him to have issues for the next month at least especially if he re-injured that ankle. Depending on his history of injuries in high school, can also play a role in how well he recovers. The first time versus the 20th time rolling my ankle was significantly different in how long I wasn't able to play a sport or walk around without too much pain. Hopefully he has a speedy recovery.
Gittleson* my mistake,
I do remember hearing comments about Gabe Watson's work ethic at times. If I recall there were times where Coach Carr called him out for his consistency. You are absolutely right that there are a lot of guys that can get by on athletic tangibles alone.
The main point I was getting at was that perception of strength and conditioning and the approach big name guys took to compete and get better was due to competition within your team and wanting to be elite so you could get drafted. I remember hearing guys talk about how intense Larry Foote used to be in workouts.
I'm sure there is intensity and competition in practice with the current team. My question or curiosity would be how does the current team dynamics and workouts compare to that of Michigan teams in the past that had success?
Hoke was around the team in 97, so you would think he has a good blue print to work off of. The trouble may be, that the blueprint for success in 97 is out of date with the current college football scheme.
Michigan won two big ten titles from 03-07. We are in a maddening time right now LOL.
my roommates who were walk ons complained about Giddleson because he killed them in workouts. I had a few friends that were on scholarship that felt the opposite about the guy saying that they liked the guy and knew he was punishing them in the weight room to get them ready to compete at the next level so they could make the NFL.
It boils down to having the mindset that you have to want to work to get better and that results are not going to handed to you because you are a 5 star recruit coming in to a rebuilding program.
If you look at Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. The team has an identity set by their head coach and one can tell that there is a atmosphere is strict disclipline and zero tolerance football wise. In terms of personal conduct, that depends on how good you are on the field, i.e Dorial green Beckham
can anyone explain what has happened with the O line recruits other than lack of development with some insight? I know Fox had an ACL repair two years ago, Kugler IIRC had a RTC or Labral repair.
Unless there are issues with injury or still trying to improve strength after rehabbing for 6-12 months from shoulder surgery, I don't understand how Kalis and Kugler are not getting time.
is the main problem with this team. How many true or red shirt seniors are playing today? The team is still young, which explains the stuggles. I thought Michigan would be a 9-3 or 8-4 team this year and wasn't all that excited due to the fact that I knew the league would come down to MSU or OSU.
The main thing I wanted to see this year was a steady improvement over the course of the this season so next year's team could realistically contend for a Big Ten title.
I think that is his way of trying to light a fire under the team's ass to get them motivated.
I think he is getting at the atmosphere/attitude reflecting players just showing up versus trying to improve each week. From the time I was there I remember the thought process of the big time players/recruits was to keep getting better to make it to the league. The few times I got to work out at Schembechler Hall with a couple buddies that played for coach Carr you would see guys coming in on their own without any coaches or trainers working out.
Part of the problem has been that when you come in and play as a freshman or sophmore for a struggling team, it is easier to get complacent because no one is challenging you for your spot. Think about teams like Alabama who have stud Jr's or Sr's that set the tone for the younger guys to learn the ropes and compete to possibly replace them one day. As the depth continues to improve, I think you will see guys working and pushing themselves even harder to keep or earn playing time. Think about a guy like Magnuson or Braden who ideally should still be 2nd team players for a team with an O-line like Long, Krause, etc.
At the end of the day, the head coach does set the tone, so it is a reflection/responsibility of the coach to correct that if what Desmond is saying is true.
but I felt that Morris showed some very good things (granted he was playing garbage time against a defense that had backed off in pressure). The ball protection while running and overthrowing errors will improve with more experience. I would like to see him get more reps this year.
Gardner, nor any 18-22 year old, should never be the target of any personal attacks (due to athletic endeavors) especially by Adults who couldn't do half of what they do on a good day. From year one to now, he hasn't had a consistent coaching scheme, position, or offensive line protection. I think Gardner could have a future in the NFL as an athlete similar to Randle-El of Indiana. My ideal situation would be Gardner at Wide receiver to compliment funchess. Bellomy and speight are your back ups to morris. I think it gives gardner a better shot at bolstering his resume to apply for playing in the NFL as an athlete/receiver.
I don't see Hoke and co. switching Gardner to WR at this stage due to pride and how perception will be of their control of personnel, but that to me gives the program a chance of salvaging the season to an extent.
I think everyone agrees that coaching changes need to occur, but there is talent to give hope for the near future for the program.
Offense:
The OL has young talent to fill in over the next two years. OL: has cole, magnuson, kugler, kalis and braden as well as Fox, Bosch (hopefully he returns), dawson, Tuley-tilman.
Rb 's look to be in good shape as Green has showed gradual progress from weeks 1-4. Smith and Isaac aren't bad options to have.
WR: Funchess is a stud, if he returns, the offense upgrades next year. The knee issue makes his early departure to the NFL questionable. He may see his first round status drop this year and decide to come back next year. Canteen looks legit. Darboh and Chesson appear to be less athletic/talent avant type receivers. The x-factor in my opinion will be Drake Harris or Brian Cole (athletic game changer to compliment funchess).
TE's are set with Jake Butt and Ian Bunting. Hopefully a combination of Wheatley or clark adds depth from this years class.
Defense:
I like the depth at defense and think that they are a year or two away from being dominant.
with one minute left down by 16?
I think it's a key turning point, I now feel confident Michigan will win out the season.
I think a majority of pro coaches would only want to come to back to college if they had a lack of success like Saban or Pitino or are looking for a less stressful environment where they can settle down for a few years before retiring i.e. Mattison, Larry Brown SMU. I don't see Harbaugh in that group and I would also think that handling grown prima donna's would be a lot better than kissing a bunch of arrogant 18 year olds asses to commit to your program, then still have to commit time and hope they develop.
as a DC or possible head coach if Mattison were to leave due to a possible Hoke firing. I hate Michigan State, but narduzzi seems to be able to develop talent and imagine the Defense that guy could put together with Michigan's recent recruiting classes. I'm not comparing Dantonio to Woody, but that would be a possible Bo-Woody type rivalry with Narduzzi coming to Michigan. I don't think either is going to be here, but both would definitely be interesting.
Looking at the 2012 recruiting classes would be a fair comparison to Hoke vs. Dantonio. I don't follow state too closely, but it seems michigan has been playing more of the 2012 guys than state. It would be interesting to compare the development of both classes in the next couple of years to really see a difference in development and schemes to maximize talent. Any thoughts?
Brandon will not get canned this year, that is why turning over the team to Nussmeier is the most viable option since it allows Brandon to save face and be able to say one of his guys is still the coach. I'm curious to see what happens to Mattison if Hoke is gone.
Matt Doherty for UNC basketball, hell of a recruiter but cannot cut it as a coach or develop talent. I thought this year would be a struggle, but was willing to give Hoke the benefit of the doubt if the team showed gradual improvement throughout the season, but that is clearly not happening. I think you allow Nussmeier to continue to implement his system and maintain most of the recruiting class. He should a servicable defense next year, solid running backs and develop morris this season. If two or three of the line recruits from the previous two classes develop, the team could easily win 9-10 games next year. I think Nussmeier could have a winning team for two to three seasons and hopefully a prime coaching candidate is available by then if nussmeier doesn't work out for competing nationally.
I think Nuss should be given the team for the rest of the year. He may be able to progress morris and salvage the recruiting class. I don't see Michigan getting a significant player for coaching, especialy not the Harbaughs or Miles. I don't think it will be ten years to improve as one poster put it, but more realistically, 2-3. That's under the premise that talent actually develops.