Dennis

February 16th, 2024 at 1:07 PM ^

The Mahomes ballwashing is crazy. Similar to the LeBron vs. MJ debate.

The bar for the GOAT isn't determined by stats or rings alone. The bar is, all other stats being equal (if they aren't then it's a non-discussion until things are closer), who fundamentally changed the game? 

Brady changed the game forever. MJ changed the game forever. Neither Mahomes nor LeBron have changed anything.

Magnus

February 16th, 2024 at 8:02 PM ^

I'm not sure if he DID change it, but I'm curious what the longevity of quarterbacks' careers will be going forward. Are other guys going to try to stick it out into their mid-40s or later like Brady did? I think Brady's diet/training/nutrition may have revolutionized in some ways how guys prepare their bodies for longevity.

RibbleMcDibble

February 16th, 2024 at 1:37 PM ^

Yeah, people seem to forget that Brady won Super Bowls in 3 of his first 4 seasons as a starter...and then went 10 years before he won another one. The smart money is that Mahomes cools off because eventually the bounces will start going the other way, a guy like Chris Jones leaves or Travis Kelce gets old and suddenly 5 years have passed since the last Chiefs Super Bowl. 

I also think its interesting how much this year's Mahomes season resembled those early Brady years. The weapons pretty much shot and carried mainly by a strong defense, he did what he had to do when it was necessary to pull out close games. 

People also forget that Brady didn't play with a player of Kelce or Tyreek Hill's caliber until 2007 in which he immediately put up 50 TDs. 

Then the following year he got hurt, which cost him a prime season and he wasn't quite right the year afterward either. 

All of this is to say that Mahomes is the best QB at the moment, but declaring him the greatest ever is wildly premature. 

 

Magnus

February 16th, 2024 at 8:00 PM ^

I see some similarities between the games of Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes. Rodgers was a good runner when he was younger, and his numbers were pretty similar. Mahomes has averaged 5.2 yards/carry in his career, and Rodgers is at 4.8, which obviously includes the days of his dwindling athleticism and less of a willingness to take off and run.

Eventually, Mahomes will become a little more of a pocket passer, and while he'll still probably be pretty spry - more so than Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Troy Aikman, and other pocket statues of the past - he's going to have to make more things happen with his accuracy and his brain.

Not that Mahomes's legs should be taken away from him - that's part of what makes him great - but one of the amazing things about Brady was that he did all those things while never being a plus athlete. He never ran well, and yet, he was still a great player until his mid-40s.

If Mahomes loses his wheels somehow - just from age or accumulated injuries - will he be able to process things quickly enough and throw the ball accurately enough to still move a team up and down the field? Andy Reid's earlier protege Donovan McNabb didn't fare very well once he couldn't run around very much.

RibbleMcDibble

February 16th, 2024 at 8:15 PM ^

The main difference between Brady and everyone else is that he just kept doing it. He's been to more Super Bowls than any franchise in NFL history, except the one he helped get to nine of those eleven. Mahomes could be on that level, but we will see. I remember Aaron Rodgers winning his second year as a starter and it seemed like he was just getting started. That's his last Super Bowl. Russell Wilson seemed like he was going to be the guy, but after the Patriots stole his soul in 2014/15, he never made it back. 

Mahomes has been better than both, but it can change quickly. 

Swayze Howell Sheen

February 16th, 2024 at 3:16 PM ^

Honestly, and somewhat unrelated: AppleTV has been killing it with their programming. So many quality shows (and some duds). To wit: Severance, Bad Sisters, Ted Lasso, Slow Horses, Shrinking, Criminal Record, ...