OT: Tiger Woods Criticism

Submitted by MichiganStudent on
This has not been discussed yet, but I wanted to see what everyone thought about Jim Browns criticism of Tiger Woods and his influence on social change. Especially for minorities. I think Jim Brown is totally off base on this topic because Tiger Woods is very involved in charities and social work. He helps out as much as possible, IMO. On a side note. I played golf with Tony Romo last year in Wisconsin. It was awesome. He is a great golfer. His girl Jessica Simpson is very hot, even hotter in person. Believe it! http://golf.fanhouse.com/2009/07/01/tiger-responds-to-jim-brown-critici…

marco dane

July 3rd, 2009 at 7:28 PM ^

Jim Brown with ALL of his accolades (he has ALOT of them mind you)...human also. And with that...he's flawed like everyone else. Thank you for reminding us of his flaws...wouldn't want that to be ommited from the conversation.

Zone Read Left

July 3rd, 2009 at 5:10 PM ^

Jim Brown is upset that Tiger Woods is not outspoken about political issues. However, the reason for this is that believe it or not Tiger is most likely *gasp* a Republican. After all, he was raised on military bases and his father (not to mention his role model) was a green beret.

kgh10

July 3rd, 2009 at 5:45 PM ^

1) I could be wrong, but I'd wager a LOT more Democrats have not only participated in the military but support servicemen and women than there are African American Republicans. 2) Civil rights advocacy is not as strictly a left-right topic as it seems. 3) Jim and Tiger have spoken to each other before this incident and have discussed this very topic with one another (Tiger has stated this). I'm sure Jim and Tiger know where each other stand and Jim just wanted to be a loud mouth about it in the media, which is not exactly surprising given how he normally functions.

Callahan

July 3rd, 2009 at 9:30 PM ^

I think the bigger issue is not political party but rather ideology. Not all Democrats (or Republicans) agree with each other. Whether Tiger is a Democrat or Republican is irrelevant. Maybe, being multiracial (I believe he called himself "Cablanasian") he just doesn't care about racial politics.

Tater

July 3rd, 2009 at 5:23 PM ^

This is one of my favorite subjects. Despite my pale skin, I participated in some civil rights marches in the 60's and whatever it segued into in the 70's, and have always been on this issue like, well, "white on rice." The sixties and seventies were a unique era; one cannot expect any athlete to be "another Jim Brown" or "another Muhammad Ali." Back then, segregation still openly existed in many places. Even in Ann Arbor, which was known as a bastion of liberal thought, I watched managers routinely throw the applications of those with dark skin into the wastebasket as soon as the person walked out the door. Jokes about "token n-words" were actually accepted as humor in many workplaces, and there was no semblance of equality in hiring practices. I can go on and on here, but I'm sure there is plenty of research available online. To give a condensed version from a sympathetic outsider, being African-American in that era was probably ten times as tough as it is now. In that era, black athletes were expected to "know their place," shut up, and be thankful for what they did have. And if you were the best QB on the team, like Marlin Briscoe, you were expected to play WR or DB. As for endorsements and movie roles, most of them went to white athletes. And, though this is about microcosm called sports, it is closely related to the macrocosm of racial tolerance in the US in general. I shudder to think where racial relations in this country would be even now if not for Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Ali, and Brown. In that era, activism was huge. Nowadays, it isn't. The era is different. And African-Americans have been "given" just enough so-called "equality" that it renders a lot of protest ineffective. So, basically, it would do no good for Tiger Woods to engage in most overt forms of protest. All clubs holding majors have already been forced, some kicking and screaming like Augusta, to admit African-American members. In some cases they are tokens, and as few as the clubs can get away with, but it does allow the clubs to tell the public that they are compliant with the rules, "bastions of equality," and other such crap. What Tiger is doing with First Tee and by example is doing more good than any symbolic protest could. If a person's favorite golfer, who happens to be extremely intelligent and articulate, has dark skin, that person will tend to be more tolerant and less of judgemental of others with dark skin. Also, Woods has brought a lot of African-Americans into golf who wouldn't otherwise have had the opportunity or the desire to play. And every time an African-American succeeds in a "gentleman's" sport, it makes it that much harder for a racist to argue their inferiority, and even harder for those arguments to be taken seriously by others. I love what Jim Brown did, but he can't seriously expect others to be like he was or is. Besides, Brown didn't become as much of an activist until he didn't have to worry about keeping up the skills that made him the best player in the NFL for a few years. If Brown is still alive when Tiger retires from competitive golf, then maybe he should talk to Tiger about taking on his role in the African-American community. Until then, though, I would rather see Tiger concentrate on becoming the player who won the most majors and the most tournaments. Having an African-American universally recognized as the greatest player who ever played, quantified by the most wins in both majors and tournaments, would do more than Tiger could ever do with speeches or symbolic gestures.

marco dane

July 3rd, 2009 at 5:57 PM ^

for the Micheal Jordan's and Tiger Wood's of the world you had trailblazers like Jackie Robinson (my personal hero growing up),Arthur Ash,Ali,Curt Flood,including Tommie Smith and John Carlos,and others who spoke out...at the APEX of their careers. They didn't viewed the bottom line as suicidal if they were too(as today sports figures do)...but what they truly found to be the apparent LACK of equality among the races. Insomuch,for them to speakout,granted I don't expect them to become a Charles Barkely (when he isn't clowning) however,they hold court with corporate & suburbia/small town america...shouldn't that count for something? I hope this thread dosen't turn ugly...

Tater

July 3rd, 2009 at 6:23 PM ^

If this was any blog except mgoblog, I would expect this discussion to turn ugly. One great thing I have seen here, though, regardless of people's viewpoints on various subjects, is that there seems to be a tacit agreement that there will be no racism or prejudice. If so many people with divergent backgrounds and opinions agree on any one thing, especially that one, it speaks well of the community.

marco dane

July 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 PM ^

That is why I love posting here. The posters are the best in the blogosphere. However,like with anything else...others can exploit this very candid,frank,and perhaps quite explosive subject to create atmosphere of distortion and chaos.

kgh10

July 3rd, 2009 at 5:31 PM ^

Jim Brown is Dubois to Woods' Washington. Not exactly but I guess that's my oversimplified interpretation of their approaches to activism.

VAWolverine

July 3rd, 2009 at 6:26 PM ^

is doing his part to support inner city kids who need some help. This is a different era than the late 60's and early 70's when Jim Brown retired and became an activist. Jim and Tiger need to get together to put all this acrimony to rest for the betterment of people they wnat to support. Jim could be targeting different athletes too. What about Barry Sanders? MIchael Irvin? Emmitt Smith? TO? Donovan McNabb?

Callahan

July 3rd, 2009 at 9:24 PM ^

Well, it's kinda apples and oranges. None of the athletes you mention are as big or influential as Tiger Woods. Tiger is the biggest athlete in the world. The closest American comparison would be Lebron James. Jordan had the same problem. I don't know if it was Jim Brown, but he was criticized for not being political enough. Of course, Tiger and MJ can't win by doing so. They make millions in endorsements and saying the wrong thing could jeopardize everything they built if the right people are offended (Don't believe me, see David Letterman re: recent bullshit surrounding joke about Palin's daughter). If either decided to become politically active, no matter what they said, it would either risk alienating the companies and people that make them what they are, or they would further alienate those who think they should be political if, God forbid, they didn't agree or didn't go far enough as activists.

Tater

July 3rd, 2009 at 6:45 PM ^

Even though I never saw him play, I would also rate Jackie Robinson as the bravest of all the pioneers Marco mentioned. What he had to put up with is probably unfathomable to most of us in this era. I would put Smith and Carlos next, and Ali third (or is that fourth?) on the bravery scale. Thinking of Robinson, he was called names not only by opposing fans, but fans in his home stadium, and opposing players. At first, even some players on his own team didn't accept him. And I don't think he got to stay in the same hotels as the rest of the team a lot in the early days, either. Imagine the pressure of being THE only representitive of his race in what was then the American Pastime. Hitting a baseball is probably the most difficult task in sports; imagine having to do it while a circus is going on around you on a daily basis. I put Smith and Carlos second only to Robinson because the knew they were in for a fecal storm and did it anyway. They were universally reviled by most of mainstream America for their actions for years, ruining any chance they had of taking financial advantage of their Olympic fame. Ali was brave and even spent time in jail, but it was for refusing to go to Vietnam, which was a totally different issue. Also, Ali had the backing of the Musilm community, and being a controversial figure helped him make more money than he would have if he hadn't created such a larger-than-life persona. Ali gave up two years of his prime; Smith and Carlos pretty much gave up their entire post-Olympic careers. Back to Ali for a second: he wasn't given nearly as much respect early in his career as he is now. He was almost like a professional wrestling "heel" in a lot of places. He was reviled for his bragging, and refusing to go to 'Nam only made him more of a villian. A lot of people watched his fights hoping to see someone finally "shut him up." Thankfully, Ali not only had a great support group, but seems to have been utterly self-validating. And for those who love to hate Howard Cosell, his role in popularizing Ali was crucial. I only hope that I live to see the day when color doesn't matter anymore. I would even settle for living long enough to see fifty percent of college football coaches be African-American.

The Barking Sp…

July 3rd, 2009 at 10:03 PM ^

I think it's unfair to throw the mantle of Role Model or Cross Bearer on the shoulders of every black athlete, even the biggest and most popular. I think of Tiger as a quiet leader--a leader by example type. He's breaking enough ground as it is--to expect him to automatically take up huge causes or be the front man for all of Black America isn't for anyone but him to decide. He is going to break probably the most difficult of career achivement marks in all of sport IMO. And in a sport where African Americans seemingly had no place before he came along. I think that stands for itself, and it remains to be seen if he will become more of a vocal leader when his golf career slows down. I'd like to ask those old enough to remember, or even Jim Brown himself: How vocal and out front was HE during his playing heyday? And times were, as others have pointed out, much more turbulent then. I'm pretty sure Tiger donates all of his golf purse money to his charities. That's pretty darn solid, and money is where the hell it's at nowadays. I totally agree with putting Carlos and Smith up there with any pioneer in the Civil Rights movement from the sporting community. The HBO special on them was riveting. They pretty much sacrificed everything to do what they did and they are to be admired in a big way.

befuggled

July 3rd, 2009 at 10:09 PM ^

Or so I heard from a caterer/teaching assistant a couple of years ago. Bud Selig was allegedly also a bad tipper, while Michael Jordan was supposed to tip very well.

Nickel

July 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 PM ^

I feel like it's an unfair criticism of Woods. As others have mentioned, he risks so much financially if he accidentally says the wrong thing or gives the wrong impression at some point. Just look at other celebrities like Barbara Streisand, the Dixie Chicks, Mel Gibson, they've all alienated people and sponsors at one time or another because of their stance on different issues. It's easy to say "well so Tiger would only make $70 million a year instead of $100 million in sponsorships" but if I was in his position I know what I'd choose to do. Besides, from what I understand he's pretty involved with his own charitable work. We need talkers and we also need doers, it's like if some company is polluting a waterway, someone needs to bring the issue to the forefront, but that doesn't get the trash out of the river. Someone still needs to put on their waders and do the hands on work. Maybe this is a situation where Tiger is better at the hands on work and Brown is better at bringing the issues out, I really don't know the ins and outs of their charities and involvement.

notetoself

July 4th, 2009 at 12:01 AM ^

i do realize that being black in america is different than it is for other minorities because of this nation's history, but tiger is chinese, thai, native american, dutch.... and african american. to put on him the responsibility of teaching young black kids how to act is really to judge him on the color of his skin. should he also be a role model for young chinese kids? for thai kids? i really wonder how tiger feels about his own blackness, given that he never really talks about it.