OT: Power 5 Football Coaches that Never Played College Football - Mike Leach
Seeing the responses from the earlier post about Jim Harbaugh hiring the first female football GA at the Power 5 level got me wondering...
Is it possible to be a successful coach and ascend to a Power 5 head coaching job without actually being a college football player??
Could that coach be innovative on offense and maybe even be known for coaching quarterbacks despite not being one??
Doing a little googling, I was surprised to learn that Mike Leach never played college football. He did play rugby at BYU, which I find funny given his passing offenses. In terms of qualifications before his first GA?? Per his wikipedia page, he went to law school at Pepperdine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Leach_(American_football_coach)#Coaching_career
He started as a GA at Cal Poly in 1987 he earned a Master's of Sports Science at the United States Sports Academy in Alabama in 1988.
QUESTION: Do you think he would have gotten that opportunity to start coaching and move up the ranks if he was a minority woman with similar qualifications?
The 60 minutes broadcast on him is interesting if you haven't seen it. There are also some comments about how his innovative offense takes elements from basketball (spacing, etc.). Given our new GA comes from that sport, I found it notable.
I believe there are other coaches that didn't play college football as well but didn't want to list without researching further to confirm. I ran out of time, so I was hoping others could chime in.
Obviously, the point of this post is to provide a response to those that feel playing college football should have been a prerequisite for a GA hire. At least in Mike Leach's case, it turns out his ideas were more important than his experience playing.
Made a point about this and that went really, really well.
Anyway, I've long been on the record that having played a sport does not make you a better or worse coach. It's a game with specific rules and intricacies. If you deeply, strongly understand those and can manage people you can coach. I strongly believe that.
In fact, I think many ex-players get preference they do not deserve based on ability to coach. They have less ability than another but will be chosen because they played.
In the growing age of analytics in football, I expect to see more and more hires like this. Lower levels first (like GAs....) and then they will find success and work their way up no differently than those becoming GAs after a playing career.
Yes, playing gives a special experience and insight but no so much that it should be held to such high importance.
You have a point-just not a very good one. There is a lot more to playing these games than meets the eye-and you are not going to learn about it unless you actually play the game or compete in a sport in a way that informs you of the nuances of competing in an athletic contest. You do not have to be the most physically gifted player but there has to be an empirical based knowledge involved. Analytics can only inform one to a point. It cannot inform you with regard to execution required to effect the results you are working to achieve. There are new studies showing the clear limitations of analytics-because they are dictating play that is too predictable and, thusly, more easily countered. Great players and teams are exceptional because of their ability to go "off script" at the right time.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:03 PM ^
agree. playing a sport most definitely gives one an advantage to one who has not. that said, playing a sport doesn't guarantee one is going to be a good coach. not playing a sport doesn't guarantee failure.
March 15th, 2022 at 11:07 PM ^
Perfect answer without having to write 3 paragraphs. Nicely done.
I hope the lady GA does well because it helps Michigan if she does.
March 15th, 2022 at 11:50 PM ^
Exactly this and I mentioned that. Playing gives insight that a non-player will never have but I don't attribute it to be so valuable as to override other qualities/knowledge. A game is a game with strict rules and leading people is it's own skill. If you know the game down to the bearings (so to speak) and are an exception leader, you can coach. I firmly believe that.
March 16th, 2022 at 12:22 AM ^
I think it was probably implied in your comments, but it's not just the qualifications of the individual. It is also the issue of complementary skill sets within a staff.
A number of people seem to be of the opinion that playing experience is a critical factor. Perhaps, but you don't necessarily need that in EVERY coach.
Blending an array of people with different strengths can be just as important. Some may be outstanding at analytics, some may be outstanding strategists, some may be exceptional at teaching technique, some are exceptional motivators. You need them all.
Like anyone else, regardless of gender, she will have to prove that she has the chops to coach. And yes, she will have a greater hurdle to over come than if she was a male. I hope she is successful and focuses like a laser beam in getting the Wolverine QBs the best they can be.
Charlie Weis was one who played in High School but not after that. He worked his way up as a GA all the way to the Patriots and then ND. It may not have ended well for him on the field, but he did fine at the bank.
March 16th, 2022 at 12:14 AM ^
A few more head coaches....
David Cutliffe also did not play college football.
Hugh Freeze played a couple of years of baseball at the community college level but not football.
Sonny Dykes played college baseball.
It’s an NFL example, but Dolphins coach Mike McDaniel didn’t play either and got his start as a “coaching intern” at 22 years old with the Denver Broncos after completing a history degree at Yale.
Bet he put in a ton of tecmo bowl hours though.
You’re bored aren’t you
March 16th, 2022 at 12:41 AM ^
Perhaps I was a bit.
But, I also was just interested in examining examples of coaches who didn't have any (or little) playing experience and the success they have had.
Since a woman coach hasn't had the opportunity to play this particular sport at a high level, it's particularly relevant if women want to try to do it.
Are they destined to be specialists in something like analytics or can they find success overall as a position coaches, coordinators, or a head coach?
Do these differing backgrounds add value? Seems like a reasonable football related topic.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:00 PM ^
Did you just ask the board (in bold) if a minority woman would get the same opportunity to coach college football as a white man in 1987?
What are you looking to accomplish exactly?
Your post sucks and you should feel bad.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:21 PM ^
He couldn’t get enough people to argue with him on the other post so he decided to make his own.
Genuinely curious, what do you think I was trying to argue with people about in the other post? I have no idea what you are referring to.
March 16th, 2022 at 12:50 AM ^
I mostly failed, but I was looking to have a discussion about the premise that you need to play the game at a competitive level to add value as a coach and be successful.
My bolded question was rushed and poorly stated. It detracted from the primary issue. I should have simply asked if Harbaugh hired GA Leach today, whether that would be considered a bad hire of someone who wasn't qualified because they didn't play in college or have other football experience?
As it turned out, he brought something to the table because of his ideas and background. That gave his teams an edge and that edge won games. It had nothing to do with him playing football.
It factors into the hiring of a woman coach, since they aren't going to have that playing experience. Is that a legitimate reason to question hiring a woman coach as some have done?
You certainly can have your opinion that it's a bad topic. I think understanding what adds value in a coach hire, even at the lower levels, is relevant and interesting. I feel bad that I rushed the post, but not about the topic.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
Todd Haley didn't play college football, don't think he played High School either.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:14 PM ^
Todd Haley never played football beyond the youth level yet went on to become the head coach of the KC Chiefs for 3 seasons and an NFL OC for 8 seasons. He was still able to break into an assistant role for the NY Jets because his dad was the Director of Player Personnel for the NY Jets.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^
Do you think he would have gotten that opportunity to start coaching and move up the ranks if he was a minority woman with similar qualifications?
Uh, not in1987, no.
Yes, I said it and I would edit it if I could. See above comments.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:26 PM ^
Jedd Fisch didn't play football in HS or College. Played tennis in HS and graduated from college with a degree in criminology.
Good shit, Aspyr.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:29 PM ^
I thought this was going to turn into another Jay Harbaugh discussion.
March 15th, 2022 at 11:02 PM ^
Leach is basically a unicorn —- a mix of innovative genius (I don’t think genius is incorrect here), personality and the charisma that made people want to follow him as a leader. He was also a success: others here have mentioned Todd Haley and Charlie Weis but neither of them succeeded as a HC like leach.
99%+ of college football head coaches will come from the traditional route. There’s a reason it’s traditional —- unicorns are by definition fairly rare.
March 15th, 2022 at 11:56 PM ^
Leach is definitely a unique one. I worked in a bookstore and hosted a signing event for his book, got a chance to meet and chat with him. He is legit something of a football savant, someone who didn't play any anything approaching a high level personally but could view and analyze as an "outsider" and develop his own contrarian perspective, and turn that into an actionable culture/plan/whatever.
There are game threads full of people who never played college football who are convinced they could coach it.
It is anchorman and not anchorlady and that is a scientific fact!
March 16th, 2022 at 10:07 AM ^
The debate is really funny to me because we are all on here devouring the detailed football analysis of Seth and Brian, two guys who (as far as I am aware) have never actually played football but know a hell of a lot more about it than me (a guy who played on a very successful high school team for 4 years). I think they have proven that you can learn a LOT from watching film and studying the game without ever playing it, let alone if you were someone who dedicated their career to actually coaching and learning the on-field ins and outs of the game.
That being said though I do think former players will always have an upper hand or easier path to coaching success because they know firsthand what it feels like to actually try and make a certain block, or get your footwork correct for running a route, or how difficult it can be to execute a certain move when you are seeing the chaos of game speed in real time. But it is 100% possible to still become a good coach without ever playing yourself.
March 16th, 2022 at 10:19 AM ^
Brian Kelly could fall into this category. The college he went to only had a 'club' football team.
March 16th, 2022 at 11:03 AM ^
Of course it is. The coach's goal is to get the players to perform collectively as best as possible... those are far different skills than athletic gifts. Sure, it can help if you also played....but not necessary.
March 16th, 2022 at 11:09 AM ^
Ah the prestigious USSA of A
March 16th, 2022 at 12:18 PM ^
Excellent question. If there’s one thing we’ve seen for sure in this world, it’s that minority women definitely have every advantage in getting opportunities. 🙄
(side note: the lack of an emoji making a wanking gesture is unfortunate)
March 16th, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
Jedd Fisch
March 16th, 2022 at 12:36 PM ^
You absolutely do not have to play to be a coach. However, getting a Power 5 GA position with zero experience in the game doesn't happen. Not to mention this isn't a GA job at a low level P5, this is a top 15 program. Then you combine that with the QB GA being the most difficult GA spot there is due to the level of understanding you need and you have a very unusual situation. That's why some are questioning it. Mike Leach did his GA stint at Cal-Poly which is a far cry from Michigan. The 3 typical routes for a GA at a P5 school is you either played in college, you are actively coaching at a high level high school or you were a student assistant during your undergrad. Getting a position at this level goes to people that have grinded their way up in the game because GA's will, at times, actively coach players or run film sessions.
I appreciate the insight into the pursuit of a GA job.
Yet, we're seeing in many instances coaches at all levels (college, NFL) being hired that are younger and have far less experience than other candidates. Some have rocketed up to the top of the sport and found success. One just won a SuperBowl.
It seems plausible that experience has been overvalued at the expense of innovation, new ideas, and perhaps even different background/perspective. Coach Harbaugh, at least, seems to believe that is true.
I agree to an extent, but if you are referring to McVay, he has a traditional track to his job. He was a player in college and then had stints in the NFL, UFL and then NFL again. He moved quickly once there because he had those innovative ideas you spoke of, but he didn't just get handed a position with no experience in the game.
So, McVay began his coaching career as an assistant wide receivers coach with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. His only "experience" was playing experience. That doesn't really appear to be grinding his way up.