OT: Non-stop Brawl last night NYI and PIT

Submitted by soupsnake on

It's a slow day on the board so I figured it wouldn't hurt to post this. 

 

Last night's game between The Islanders and Penguins got out of hand when the Islanders took a huge lead early in the game. Brawl after brawl after brawl ensued. 

 

This is the first time I've ever seen a player fight a goalie. Definitely worth a watch if you have the time.

 

EDIT: Video embedded below. Couldn't get it to work in the OP for some reason.

bamf_16

February 12th, 2011 at 6:36 PM ^

As a Pens fan, I love all the vitriol and hatred towards them from Michiganders still pissed about the '09 Finals.  I also love all the jealousy masked as hatred towards Sid.  Dude's the best player in the game.  Fans all around the league call him a crybaby, Ovechkin  an irritating showboat, Malkin soft, and guys like Sedin, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk are overrated.  However, I will give you the Cooke sentiments, as he's another in the Kasparaitis/Ruutu mold where you love him when you got him, but hate him when you don't.  His hit on Savard last year was ridiculous, and it's why he's serving a 4 game suspension on a hit that if it's anyone else on the team, draws little in return.

The game a week or so ago between the two teams wasn't really all that bad.  Talbot hits Cuomo completely legally, Cuomo stays down, but finishes the game, and no one takes a run at Talbot.  Then it comes out the next morning that he's got a concussion, and now Max is a marked man.  What Martin did to Talbot was a complete sucker punch, and I think it's safe to say that anyone who tries to condemn Max for "turtling" there is another in the string of pansies who've never been in a fight.  While the damage wasn't as bad, it's just as chicken as what Hunter, C. Lemieux, McSorely and Bertuzzi have done in the past.

Brent Johnson knocked out DiPietro in a fight DP willingly engaged in.  It happens.  Sending an AHL goon is just laughable.  If that's what you need to do when you're the laughingstock of the NHL, knock yourself out and go for it.  Challenge a goalie, take a run at a rookie, elbow him high and late, throw punches, and mock him as he lays on the ice.  It happens; it's the NHL.  And I guess as long as the NHL has nights like this, junior high kids will blow it out of proportion, react like many have in this thread, and dream about being served pancakes in bed while lying there naked.

kgroff531

February 12th, 2011 at 7:06 PM ^

Ohhhhh. So you're one of the six fans Pittsburgh had between 2000-2006 when the team went bankrupt. You know, when they were the laughing stock of the league? I'm sure you are seeing as how you're such a hockey expert. Guess that's what should be expected from a fan base that only has a team due to ONE dedicated person (Mario) and a lottery (top 2 pick for half a decade) but I'm sure you already knew all that.

bamf_16

February 13th, 2011 at 11:30 AM ^

You sure showed me!  "5 years ago, your team sucked!"  And yes they did.  We went to games during that stretch where our top line was some combo of guys like Robert Lang, Konstantin Koltsov, Alexei Morozov, Milan Kraft, Kris Beech, and Rico Fata (after guys like Jagr, Straka, and Kovalev were dealt for nothing).  We walked into the Igloo and hoped we got a goal before giving up 3 so we at least had the chance to stand and cheer and feel like we were in a game.  Heck, one year our leading scorer was defenseman Dick Tarnstrom with something like 55 points.

Under a new system that rewards coaching, shrewd roster moves, and player development, the Pens have put together one of the best franchises in the league with a bright future that seems to be the envy of kids on this board and everywhere!  How much worse would the hate be if the Pens won the lottery two years in a row and had a line of Sid at C and Ovi at LW?

And numbskull, every major sport has in place a system where the better teams pick later in the draft and the poorer ones pick earlier.  In a world where the Yankees and Red Sox are blasted for "buying" their teams instead of relying on player development, you're blasting the Penguins for drafting and developing players?  Interesting.

Now that the system has leveled the playing field, your precious Red Wings now have to compete with more teams.  And I get you're having issues with that.  But those two Cup Finals between the Pens and Wings were friggin' awesome, and I was pulling for the Wings and Pens last year to get a rubber match. 

kgroff531

February 13th, 2011 at 1:17 PM ^

Not trying to show you anything junior. Just making the point that when you come on here pounding your chest about a team most on this board dislike, don't act surprised when you get called out. And this "envy" you speak of comes from the feelig that pitt was gifted a team their fanbase doesn't deserve because they didn't support the team when they needed them the most. Add to that your lack of hockey knowledge and you're asking to be mocked. Sedin, zetterberg and datsyuk overrated? Pitt "develops" players? Didn't know top 2 picks needed development. Guess the wings should learn from pitt and stop turning late round picks into superstars (datsyuk, zetterberg, lisdstrom, fedorov....).

mstier

February 13th, 2011 at 1:45 PM ^

I'm not sure if many teams would maintain high attendance rates when they're bottom dwellers, the Red Wings included.  Heck, the Red Wings don't sell out every night when they're good.

Obviously, getting superstars like Crosby and Malkin were the direct result of poor play/high draft choices.  And, for the most part, they were no-brainer picks.  I'd rate their drafting as average or slightly below, though I think the most recent drafts (with Shero as GM) have been a bit better than when Patrick was in Pittsburgh. 

That said, the Red Wings haven't really unearthed any superstars as of late, and while they have some decent prospects, there aren't any Datsyuks or Zetterbergs in Grand Rapids.  As of late, I'd say the Red Wings draft above average.  But in the post-lock out era where most Canadien AND European leagues are scouted well by all teams, I think its going to be harder for the Red Wings to capitalize on these late picks.  I think they're going to have a to put a lot more emphasis on drafting well in the 1st-2nd rounds where they're most likely to find NHL-capable talent. 

Seth

February 14th, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^

Couple things:

1. Tone down the hate. For most on the board the Red Wings are the home team, so be respectful.

2. After Detroit I have an affinity for Pittsburgh sports. Maybe it's cause the Steelers are the franchise I would have wanted. And the Pirates had Leyland and Bonilla and Bonds and Van Slyke. And the Penguins had Lemieux and Jagr. Those teams were so worth rooting for (Bonds became a villain only after he left). However, I can't stand the modern Penguins, because that team didn't take any savvy -- it was simply a combination of losing on purpose and league assistance.

Lemieux disassembled (and purposely got nothing of immediate value in return) one of the best rosters in hockey when he dealt away everyone from Jagr to Francis, down to the point where Rico Fata was on the first line, the trade deadline talk for other teams was basically a Pittsburgh menu, and the only reason to go to the Igloo was to see Mario trotting the husk of himself out there like it's an alumni game.

Unsurprisingly, fans didn't come, and Pittsburgh headed toward bankruptcy. Lemieux's goal was to make the team as bad and as cheap as possible, becoming Gary Bettman's poster boy for instituting a low salary cap because "hey, Straka's got 12 points in 22 games --- TRADE HIM!!!

Meanwhile, the Penguins' No. 1 overall pick Fleury was kept in the minors so a.) They wouldn't have to pay him his full contract, and b.) To keep the tanking going.

Here's what the Penguins got in return:

  • 2002: Ryan Whitney (5th overall)
  • 2003: Marc-Andre Fleury (1st overall*)
  • 2004: Evgeni Malkin (2nd overall)
  • 2005: Sidney Crosby (1st overall)
  • 2006 Jordan Staal (2nd overall)
(* Traded up 2 spots with Florida)

 

The reason for the tanking was to get high draft picks. Hockey more so than almost any other sport has a strong correlation between 1st round draft position and performance. Usually there's one to five guys who have "it" and while there's a few early picks who haven't panned out, the ones who reach that extra level of hype generally come through. Also, the way the salary cap is set up, the most valuable players are those you drafted yourself until their arbitration years are over.

Also, the sport is very star-dependent; like basketball an inordinate amount of scoring (and defensive value) will come from the top echelon of players. Thus, a 1st overall pick in hockey is worth more than in any other sport, and if you've got four guys picked from the Top 2 in a short period of years, that team will now be starting with four of those top-echelon players (most teams have 1, maybe 2, and 3 means you're probably a Stanley Cup contenter), and have them under contract for the next four to six seasons at a fraction of their actual value. Put that into a hard salary cap situation, and that team is majorly advantaged against its competition.

This is why "savvy" is a laughable description of that team. You'd have to be head-bang-into-a-spike stupid to have those 2002-'06 draft positions and not come away with a superstar team.

The penultimate tank, the one that preceeded the lockout, was the big difference maker, because it netted a top draft selection two years in a row. Evgeni Malkin was the just reward for that season. Getting Sidney Crosby after a year when nobody played was essentially Pittsburgh's reward for being Bettman's little bitch. Using the last played year's standings instead of giviing every team a shot was what Lemieux lobbied for, and made zero sense. Pittsburgh especially shouldn't have had a high draft pick because unlike teams that were actually talent-less before the lockout, the Penguins had simply gone into hibernation, stockpiling a pre-arbitration pool of talent. This could be termed "savvy" except for the effect it had on the game -- the talent dispersal began to severely favor the West over the East, and teams in Pittsburgh's division (the NHL's schedule being unbalanced) were taking mediocre squads to the playoffs. As for the fans, I thought at the time it was a really dick move to purposely lose for four years and send off all of those fans' beloved players but if you were willing to make that tradeoff, that's your bag.

Let's put this in context. Sidney Crosby was, long before the draft, already considered a Gretzky-like, once-in-a-generation talent, so much so that the 2005 draft lottery was called the "Sidney Crosby Sweepstakes." He was, quite simply, the LeBron of ice hockey. Except whereas LeBron was provided to a franchise that had been a longtime sufferer due to poor talent, Crosby got to join Fleury, Malkin and Whitney, all products of one of the most obvious lose-on-purpose fests in pro sports history.

The last tank was the year after the lockout. You saw right away what Lemieux's plan had been all along, as the team emerged from the lockout by spending twice as much as the next closest team on free agents, and playing all of those early draft picks while the NHL built  a marketing strategy around them. When that team started falling apart, rather than finish as a middling squad, Lemieux again went the trade-and-tank route to again be first in line at the draft day talent buffet.

During those years I was a lot more involved in hockey circles, where the general complaint was "Bettman's pals in Pittsburgh get to pick first, then the rest of us have to build our teams with what's left."

You could make the case that it was savvy of Lemieux to pick a winner in sidling up next to Bettman and giving him a bullshit posterboy for instituting a cap, and in return getting the prize of the century, plus a bevy of underpaid stars and a huge financial advantage over the competition. The lie was put toward to the whole "small market" B.S. that characterized the pre-lockout years when Pittsburgh immediately spent to the cap and began building a new stadium -- it wasn't that Pittsburgh's a small market; it's that Pittsburgh fans don't give a shit about bad teams who are trying to lose on purpose [stern look, Pirates].

Pittsburgh's now the NHL's darlings, beneficiaries of the league's best promotions (already two of the first four Winter Classics), and beneficiaries of the league's friendliest officiating. This is why the hockey world laughs when you put "savvy" next to "Penguins." This is why nobody in the hockey world has respect for Pittsburgh's franchise. It's not a team built on savvy. It's Bettman's bitches. And no self-respecting fan of hockey and the core value of sportsmanship can justify rooting for him or them.

bamf_16

February 13th, 2011 at 2:06 PM ^

So disagreeing with you = lacking hockey knowledge.  Sure thing bud.

 

Perhaps you're coming to that conclusion from the sarcam that didn't seem to come across.  Most hockey fans don't think Ovechkin is nothing but an irritating showboat, nor do I or most followers think Zetterberg and Datsyuk are overrated.