spoiler alert: i linked this
Trust me, I'm screaming all game every game but its obviously not working for us as a whole.
I could tell it was getting better last year though...
it's obviously not working for us as a whole
You know we have won 11 national championships and the most games ever, so it obviously has "worked" just fine as it is.
The one thing that gets me about this blog is the negging. I didnt say anything opposing to anyone and it was just a comment. For people to neg something like that is just a dick move and makes others hesitant to comment. Just take it for what its worth.
The first rule of MGoPoints: Don't talk about MGoPoints.
Speaking from experience, the more you worry about them, the further south they go. Just stick to commenting and you should be fine.
BTW, the cowbell for Go Blue works great, otherwise I think no noise makers are needed. Yelling louder would be appropriate.
Thanks for looking out. I mean I personally could care less if I had a million points or negative one million. Not the end of the world. I just thought people should see how rediculous it is and I dont think they should be awarded or taken away so easily. Its just silly.
agree agree agree.....and before the grammar nazis nail you, its ridiculous, not rediculous. i'm gonna take my stoner buzz back to the Youtubes and interwebs. Party hard.
It's ridiculous. (Contraction - it is)
It should be "couldn't care less", not "could care less". "I could care less", taken literally, is just about meaningless.
I can't figure out why people see "I could care less," as that means "I actually do give a shit" when the purpose of the statement is to show how much you don't care. Ok, this thread is really off topic now, but just thought I'd toss out one of my pet peeves.
keys! Just joking
damn...i thought this would imbed....
Not gonna lie...i'm really baked. This video made me laugh pretty hard though. What the hell was this kid thinking? The song starts to make sense the more I analyze it.
The band has nice noisemakers. Personally, I can't stand artificial noisemakers. They just give me a headache. I'd rather have fun and cheer the team on than bang two sticks together or blow on a vuvuzela.
i am in full agreement of Vuvuzuelas
Purchase fava beans, chianti.
"down in front" doesn't work? (sarc)
you ain't kiddin!!!!
How many false start penalties did we cause for Notre Dame and Western? And I'm pretty sure both teams had to use time outs multiple times because they couldn't hear. BUT, we can do better this year!
That's awesome. It also demonstrates that RAWK adds nothing to the experience. The yelling from the student section is great. The piped-in music is meh at best. More band, more cowbell.
as for the band- you can't hear them most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I love the band they just don't play loud enough. I swear the Delaware State band was as loud as ours with about 1/4 the numbers.
The lack of (apparent) noise from the band, and the reasons behind it /solutions for fixing it have been much discussed on here, but that's why I was asking for more. To me, nothing screams "college football" like a good marching band.
Oregon has the loudest stadium in the country for a reason. It's designed to hold in sound significantly better than the big house. That being said, with the luxury boxes holding in more sound we won't be known as the quietest 110,000 people in the country anymore..... once we have victories to get excited about anyways. The Notre Dame game last year was deafening in the 4th quarter.
We'll be the loudest, quietest, and only 109000+ this season.
True Oregon's was designed for noise, but our stadium being open and not being able to hold in noise is bs. Kinnick Stadium is just as open as the Big House and I heard it gets crazy in there too.
The angle at which the seats rise at Kinnick is noticeably steeper than in the Big House. Also the stands are closer to the field.
The stands in the Big House are maybe 7 feet farther away...
I haven't been to Kinnick so I can't speak from experience, but the photos of Michigan stadium and Kinnick together make it appear as though the stands are approximately raked to the same degree. This might be an effect of the camera lenses taking the photos; the image linked here of Kinnick gives the impression of a substantially steeper rake than at the Big House:
The argument shouldn't be either/or... our noise, or typical lack thereof, is not due to one single thing, but both things: our physical structure and resulting acoustics, in combination with a sizeable percentage of Michigan fans who seem to regard actively cheering as unseemly behavior. If our fans at the Big House were as consistently loud as they are at Yost, they'd be calling us Autzen East, even with no additions.
I've wondered if the acoustics resulting from our shallow bowl have not offered the instant acoustic feedback that other stadiums do; if your shout seems to reverberate and return to you, you're more likely to keep shouting. If your shout seems to die in the air with no return, you're more likely to stop shouting unless the specific conditions of the game provide enough motivation to continue. It's a question of acoustic reinforcement, and the additions should help with that.
When I think back to all the games I attended in the '70s and early '80s, the dominant sound in my memory is of the planes droning around the stadium pulling their banners over a pretty somnolent, quiescent crowd, even if we were beating the crap out of somebody.
And that makes a difference on the sidelines.
If your approximation of 7 feet is correct, then 7 feet is approximately 2-3 additional rows of people closer to the team bench (and from field level, the Kinnick stands are much closer to level with the teams on the sideline, whereas Michigan Stadium's are raised above and further back... The setup at Iowa nearly puts the first few rows of fans in the bench)
2-3 rows of people, with 5 sections along the team bench at approximately 40 seats per section equates to an additional 400-600 more fans occupying space which would otherwise be filled with press, photographers, trunks for equipment and training staff purposes, etc etc.
Even if it's only 7 feet, and it is probably a few more, it makes a difference, on the bench, on the field.
The bigger difference between field noise levels at Michigan and Iowa, however, is the drastic difference in the steepness of the stands. The closeness of the stands is indeed a factor, though.
Look, maybe Kinnick's stands are sloped more steeply than ours, but so what? That doesn't change the fact that we have quiet fans. Can you honestly deny that? Why do you think "Down in front!" is a running joke around here?
Not sure why that pic is not the right one.
jmblue: My point was simply that the initial statement: "Kinnick Stadium is just as open as the Big House" is not accurate.
The architecture and setup of Michigan Stadium does not equal Kinnick Stadium. I did not want to delve into the discussion about fan demographics and gameday experience. I'm sorry that it came across that way.
FA: Thanks for the help. My first time trying to post a picture has not been a success. Maybe I'll put in the right URL this time?
Not sure why you chose the sizing you did. I'll see if I can't fix that, too.
Enough with the excuses already. Our stadium isn't loud because our fans aren't loud. We have the same issue in basketball, and that's an indoor building. The fact of the matter is that on the rare occasions when the old people in the stadium actually do cheer - like at the end of a close game - our stadium does get loud. That wouldn't be possible if the acoustics were as bad as people claim. Our problem is that a lot of our fans either don't want to make noise or feel embarassed about doing so. We'll most likely keep on having this debate until the opera crowd at midfield finally passes on (though it's possible that today's younger alumni will turn into an opera crowd as they age, too).
Bitching about acoustics is a red herring. When you have 110,000 people, they don't need perfect acoustics to make noise. In any part of the stadium, you can hear the students when they're making noise when the other team has the ball. And on the rare occasions when the rest of the stadium gets into it (usually only in the fourth quarter of a close game), the stadium can be deafening. The real problem isn't the slope of the stands, it's that the 90,000 non-students at the game can't seem to figure out that it's advantageous to make noise all game when the other team has the ball. As long as that remains the case, it doesn't matter how fantastic our acoustics become with the new structures. We need to educate the older alumni about the need to be vocal. Whining about the acoustics just muddles the argument.
100% agreed. Does anyone remember how loud it got during the '04 UM/MSU 3OT thriller? It was almost painfully loud. It's just sad that it takes rare moments like that to incite that level of excitement and vigor. I've been to many stadiums including Kinnick and Memorial Stadium in Lincoln, NE and they are on their feet cheering and screaming from start to finish for the most part. I understand it's hard to get excited when things aren't going your way, but realize that a loud crowd can help you turn the tide for your team. I played basketball in one of the loudest high school gyms in the country and trust me, the crowd helped us immensely. I emplore you, my fellow M fans, to get loud even for no reason and help our team to victory. Go Blue!
Kinnick is not more open. Kinnick and many stadiums like it have stands with a much greater incline which helps hold more noise in. Until you get to about row 80 in michigan stadium, the stands go out more than they go up.
Autzen only holds 54,000 but it is also designed like a bowl with no upper decks:
One of the reasons Autzen is louder is how close the fans sit to the field (it does not have a track running around like The Big House), but It is hard to believe that accounts for all of the sound difference.
The only other thing I can see is that one side of the bowl has been extended higher and an overhang juts out that likely reflects noise back down to the field. Oregon claims the overhang is for weather reasons, but I believe it also holds in the noise.
Michigan could lower the field of The Big House again (adding more rows at the bottom and eliminating the track) or add some sort of partical overhangs to the new superstructures to hold in the noise. Short of that, the only way we make the place louder is to yell harder and more often.
I could be wrong, but I believe we are unable to lower the field anymore due to water table issues.
legend has it that a crane sunk into the mud due to the water issues and is still, to this day, buried under the field.
I remember something about the natural grass field being watered by the spring beneath it. That, too, may be lore.
... relocate some students to "field seats" like at an NBA game. These would be temporary bleacher seats ringing the field on the track and at the same height as Row A (any lower and you cannot see over the heads of players on the sidelines). Think of it as Cameron Crazies but all around the field. The seats are put up for each game and taken down afterward.
It would improve the seating for students, not take away one premium seat from an alum, and increase the noise no matter where the line of scrimmage is. I have a feeling "The Wave" would be a bit more intimidating too!
Edit: And it would add thousands of additional seats to The Big House and likely do it relatively inexpensively.
...if we wanted to do it, it could certainly be done. I've worked on buildings with occupied floors well below the water table. The combined force of engineering talent and 6 foot wide novelty checks can accomplish almost anything.
I have been to both for huge games. Michigan Stadium (pre renovations) did not hold a candle to the volume of Autzen.
Now I have not been to a game since they added the suites. I hope this makes Michigan Statium one of the most feared places to play in any sport.
Isn't Michigan Statium where the Sparties play football when they aren't commiting felonies? The wolverines play at Michigan Stadium.
My experience at Autzen causes me to disagree with you. I do not think the fans are closer. Michigan Stadium has its fans in as close or closer proximity than any stadium in america.
There are 3 reasons Autzen is louder.
1) the huge overhangs, like at husky stadium hold in a ton of noise.
2) The stands go more up than out like at michigan stadium
3) fans scream their lungs out all game
For your reasons alone would make Husky Stadium louder than Autzen Beacuse the overhang covers the entire side of the stands where Autzen covers mainly the press box because the prevailing winds aim at the press box. I have been to Apple Cups in Husky Stadium that were quieter than some high school games I have been to.
"They are very difficult to beat at home. The crowd is, from every report I get, from every coach I've spoken with, a real factor. You have to learn to communicate without talking, because talking doesn't do you any good."
- Lloyd Carr, Michigan HC (before playing at Autzen).
"That's the loudest stadium I've ever been in."
- Lloyd Carr, Michigan HC (after playing at Autzen).
From what understand, artificial noisemakers are against the Big Ten rules when used as a team is calling plays or while plays are run. They don't do much about cowbells because they aren't really heard over the yelling.
One other alternative they can't confiscate from you is an unopened water bottle and change. Drink water, fill the bottle with the change, shake. Extra noise.
I have seen a few people do it the last few years and I think if a lot of people joined in on it then that would be pretty affective on top of yelling. I will start doing the bottle and change trick next year!
The coins + water bottle really don't do nearly as much as screaming, so you should definitely do both. FWIW it goes more like:
Air horns > pots and pans > screaming > water bottles.
but obviously you can't bring the first two into the Big House.
There is no way that screaming is louder than the water bottle w/coins - they are so freakin' loud, plus you don't wear out your voice as much. Personally, I scream and shake the water bottle too.
Yelling is more directional, and relatively pure in pitch. Bottles with coins are omnidirectional and mostly random noise. Plus coins can't yell creative obscenities at Coach Sweatervest.
She's in the student section ffs
Ugh, I'm sick of the talk of our stadium's disadvantages when it comes to noise. I've sat in the students section, I've sat in the alumni sections, and I've been on the field. Students, when we're winning or in a close game...everyone else, not so much. There shouldn't be any excuse for this, but that's what happens when we consistently win for over 100 years. Hopefully this down spurt in our history is a blessing in disguise and will make people appreciate when we are a great team again and they will go crazy.
"Hopefully this down spurt in our history is a blessing in disguise and will make people appreciate when we are a great team again and they will go crazy."
I've been a Michigan fan all my life but didn't see them play at Michigan stadium until 2006. I've been going to games ever since, but I still sometimes can't believe how quiet many people are. I was at the Miami game in 2008 (an ugly game, to be fair) and I wasn't sure whether or not I was in a "no cheering" section...I love the civility of Michigan fans, sure, but one can't help but sense a certain spoiledness, or at least the attitude that it might be rude to yell before the opposing offense snaps the ball.
when you are at the top of a stadium and the noise STILL BEARS DOWN on you, it's piped in. When you could hear the noise jump 20-30 decibles as though somone hit the volume button there and nothing was going on.....ummmm it's piped in! Oregon is a farse, loud but artificially
If you are speaking about during plays, I find that hard to believe. It has to be against the rules to pipe in amplified noise to intimidate and disrupt the other team during action. I will do some research.
I checked the NCAA website and the rules on artificial noisemaking are different for each sport. This is the answer given for football in the Frequently Asked Questions:
Football: “Persons subject to the rules, including bands, shall not create any noise that prohibits a team from hearing its signals. No one in the team area or coaching box may use any artificial sound amplification to communicate with players on the field.”
Clearly, fans in the stands cannot be "[p]ersons subject to the rules ...", but the Athletic Department (or whoever technically operates the stadium) must be. Otherwise, the rule would have no meaning. Although, this arguably means the band members in the stands and the players on the sidelines cannot yell during opponents' play calling at the line.
I distinctly remember watching a Michigan vs OSU game when I was young and OSU lost a timeout because their fans were too loud. Even as a kid, I remember thinking that was a stupid rule.
I vaguely remember something like that in some game when I was a kid too, but not sure if it was a college or pro game. I have only seen it once, so either the rule was interpreted wrong or it was changed.
I remember us benefitting from that rule in Columbus - I think in 1990, but it might have been '92.
not an NCAA rule.
And thank God for such a rule. It is all so fucking obnoxious; vuvuzelas, horns, cowbells, Queen, Journey, plus the guy who sits four rows behind me and yells at the coaches, as if anyone cares, and as if it means something to anyone but him.
Yeah, the Big Ten is pretty strict about noise makers. In fact, they've preemptively banned vuvuzelas -- http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2010/6/22/1530257/big-ten-will-n...
My solution, retractable video projection screens. Make them as long as the stadium and span from the top of the new boxes to mid field to create a giant triangle reflecting all sound right back into the center of the field.
As my friend suggested, dishes that swivel to focus the sound at the opposing quarterback.
... aimed at opponents' QBs (or at least TP):
definitely. but only if he comes with it.
it just might work...
Easy solution: In game flyovers
One of the labs at my job is taking apart a Warthog rivet by rivet to see what fails after 10,000 simulated flights so they can update the rest of the ones still in service, which they hope to keep in service for about 20 more years. The one they had in before this one was Major Campbell's:
which she successfully landed manually after taking fire over Iraq and losing the hydraulic system.
/random fact of the day
Yea it's crazy how long they've been in service, especially if they make it to 2028 as planned. I'm not personally working on that project, but I got a tour and some info since it's going on in the same shop where our SE for the Growler is assembled. Not sure if you've heard or seen this, but those engines are attached with an impressively small number of bolts, so small I thought I'd misheard. I also got a tour of our E2D lab the other day, only one box of electronics from the E2C wasn't upgraded. We also have an actual cockpit set up as a flight simulator, but we didn't have enough time to run it.
It is terrifying to watch them work, even when you know they are on your side, and they aren't shooting at you.
To know that they think you're one of the bad guys, and they are hunting you... I can't imagine.
Those videos literally gave me chills down my spine, can't wait for this season!!!!
What does make a lot of noise is coins in an empty water bottle. Last year my group brought in unopened water bottles, drank the water, then filled it with a few coins and shook away. It was a great noise maker when the opposiiton offense was on the field.
If the entire student section brings Vuvuzuelas and waits until the first 3rd down to break them out the opposing QB will shit himself when they first come out. Personally I think that we should wait until the MSU game to do this though.
It was loud at graduation. I was in the first row and whexn Obama came out that stadium went crazy. Let's do the same for the football team when they take the field.
I would kill for noise like this in the Big House. And don't tell me it can't be done because Clemson has upper decks and we don't. It can be done. You just need to yell.
I don't give a shit what I have to do, I just want to win for christ sakes.
Who's with me?
Yelling is one of those things that you have to do. Even teams like Alabama and Florida can't win without their crowds.
Even teams like Alabama and Florida can't win without their crowds.
Umm, crowd noise is important, but I wouldn't go that far...
I hate when you stand and yell and someone next to you gives you a dirty look. I just want to say, "Why are you here?". On every third down I stand up and scream. That's why I came to the game, to help my team win. That's how I see it anyhow.
I suppose it isn't that surprising--nor is it necessarily a good thing (I vote with a hanging chad bridging "maybe" and "no")--that my most memorable Michigan noise-maker memory effectively involved a surely overpriced student section exodus from Bivuac before gameday.
Moving on with details: In fall 2005, I well remember self-deprecatingly noisy "gotta make noiz this time plz!" whispers bouncing around campus before the OSU game. Eventually, it seemed--maybe by way of the idea's endorsement by The Daily, I'm now uncertain--the campus came to agree on a referedum to fill Nalgenes (or anything that could be snuck in a back pocket draped under a #1 jersey) with coins for noise-making purposes. Paraphrasing The Daily's (or some group's) instructions: "not too few, not too many; experiment with the coin-in-bottle numbers at home to find an integer that maximizes your noise potential." It was generally understood, without much talk about it in class or on the Diag, instead within side-by-side-to-the-stadium-stepping groups of friends, that each student would stow a bottle with water (or maybe "water"), drink the water (or "water"), drop in the coins, and shake the unit with masterbatory vigor during defensive downs.
I didn't hate that idea. Sure, it was annoying as hell. But it had grassroots roots, it was effective (if i ever thought my ears might bleed, I thought it that day in the students' section--and I was in school for Brabbs' winning kick, the 100th game, Braylonpalooza, and Henne-to-Manningham), and it wasn't mindless.
Regarding that "mindless" word: I have no idea whether I'm alone in my feelings on this one, but I have no hate for vuvuzelas (a noun/object). However, I do loathe the mindless use of vuvuzelas (a predicate/behavior) that we heard from the World Cup. I took a vuvuzela to Yost Ice Arena a few times during my undergrad years (I'm pretty sure I called it "the blue, plastic horn", though), and I'm not ashamed of that. I sent out single blasts during exciting game moments and tried my best to incorporate it into the cheers, which was tough and explains why it usually sat under my jacket. So, yeah, I welcome any noise maker accompanied by a--if not a clever one, then at least not a mindless--mind. Collective ingenuity and wit is encouraged.
Something I've done in the past which makes a decent amount of noise, is easy to make/bring, and allows you to yell at the same is to bring in a bottle of water (which they allow you to do if it's still sealed). After you drink the water, put about 10-15 coins in it. Shaking that makes a decent amount of noise and it's very easy to do. If we could get more people invovled in something like this (any increase in the noise), playing at home would be a much greater advantage (but alas, the blue-hairs probably would have a fit).
Edit: didn't see the post above, too many comments to read them all.
I didn't read them all, either. Here's guessing five other guys said the same thing as you and I.