2021 LB Julien Simon names M to top 8
Tacoma (WA) Lincoln linebacker Julien Simon named a top 8 yesterday that included Michigan, Oregon, Stanford, and Washington, among others. He's a 4-star, the #5 athlete, and #101 overall. He posted yesterday that a "big announcement" would be taking place at 3:00 p.m. today (Pacific time), so that means 6:00 p.m. EST.
I've seen some talk that he might be a Viper target, but he definitely looks like an inside linebacker target. 247 lists him at 6'2", 221.
There are zero crystal balls right now.
Top 8 in no Order, please respect my decision. God’s plan?? Edit by: @Hayesfawcett3 pic.twitter.com/rf3U8Afsde
— Julien Simon (@_JulienSimon) April 1, 2020
Magnus, is that 0 crystal balls to Michigan or in general?
In general
Nice! Now we just need Juwan Howard to take over both bball and fball recruiting and we'll reel in two top 5 classes!
I can't help but wonder if JH recognizes the seemingly vast difference in recruiting strategy between his staff and OSU's. It's more than just OSU has more in state talent more recent success. It's the administrative structure and strategy that Urban put in place and Day continues with that appears to be the biggest difference. I wonder if JH recognizes this and will ever adapt a similar system or if he's satisfied getting top 15 classes while OSU pushes for the top overall class.
Can you specifically describe the differences?
This has been discussed many times. As I'm sure what you're getting at...of course no one can say for sure. But, from guys that have been at both schools commonly themed discussion points are regular recruiting meetings, requiring assistant coaches be elite recruiters, tracking what recruits rival schools are getting, implementation of media design type stuff, etc. It's a set organizational structure at one place versus just a "lets go get this guy without a specific strategy" at another.
"Lets go get this guy without a specific strategy" is a gross mis-characterization of what happens at Michigan.
I normally appreciate your posts, MGoStrength, but you're uninformed on this topic.
I normally appreciate your posts, MGoStrength, but you're uninformed on this topic.
No worries, it's a message board. This is how we learn, through discussion and sharing of information. I'm fine with being wrong and would be happy to be so in this case.
"Lets go get this guy without a specific strategy" is a gross mis-characterization of what happens at Michigan.
Can you share any insight on how things may be different or the same at the two schools and what I may be misunderstanding?
I'm not sure Ohio really does have more in state talent. Michigan has been producing a lot of highly rated players the last few years. Also, go look where OSU's big time players come from. The VAST majority aren't from Ohio.
a) Michigan is offering the same players (generally). Ohio State offers more. College football is a game where the rich tend to get richer. Success breeds success.
b) Ohio State has 17 players ranked 4-star or higher in the 2020/2021 classes. Michigan has 20 in that same span.
c) Ohio State is getting star players from all over the place. It's not just Ohio. They're getting 5-stars from Georgia and Texas and Florida.
d) Michigan's "recruiting structure" is fine. Winning 9.4 games a year is less impressive than winning 12.2. Yet somehow Michigan had a better recruiting class than OSU a couple years ago.
a) Michigan is offering the same players (generally).
I doubt simply offering a player is sufficient to sign them. It does not appear offers or lack thereof are the problem. It's how the player contact is handled once the offer is out that appears to be the difference.
b) Ohio State has 17 players ranked 4-star or higher in the 2020/2021 classes. Michigan has 20 in that same span.
That's misleading. In that same time span OSU has 16 top 100 players compared to UM's 2. A generic 4-star is not the same as a top national recruit.
c) Ohio State is getting star players from all over the place. It's not just Ohio. They're getting 5-stars from Georgia and Texas and Florida.
What should prevent UM from doing the same? Dax Hill, Chris Hinton, Zach Charbonnet, Trente Jones, etc. are from all over the place. UM can do the same, they just don't with the same level of consistency each recruiting cycle. They will have a good year and then 1-2 so-so years.
d) Michigan's "recruiting structure" is fine. Winning 9.4 games a year is less impressive than winning 12.2. Yet somehow Michigan had a better recruiting class than OSU a couple years ago.
There has been a lot of talk the past several years about Urban's recruiting system and JH's lack thereof. While outsiders will never know for sure discussions have revolved around regular recruiting meetings, tracking boards of opposing teams, focusing of assistant coaches being great recruiters, media recruiting/design stuff, etc. It appears to be less about winning and more about strategy.
What should prevent UM from doing the same? Dax Hill, Chris Hinton, Zach Charbonnet, Trente Jones, etc. are from all over the place. UM can do the same, they just don't with the same level of consistency each recruiting cycle.
Are you trying to be obtuse? OSU wins multiple big time games a year and is a favorite to win the B1G every single season.
Michigan, on the other hand, gets to crow about going 10-3 more often than not, while getting beat down by OSU and losing their bowl game.
Our situations are vastly different and our recruiting follows from that. Harbaugh is far out of his "new coach recruiting bump" period and he didn't manage to get over the hump in time. Now he needs to over perform with the recruits he can manage to land. Otherwise Michigan will continue to float around the top 10+ range for the rest of his time here.
It appears to be less about winning and more about strategy.
Maybe to you, but most won't agree.
Are you trying to be obtuse? OSU wins multiple big time games a year and is a favorite to win the B1G every single season.
You are obviously from the camp that winning 2 more games every year makes the difference. I am not. Georgia loses 3 games every year and still brings in top 5 classes every year. A&M loses more like 4-5 games every year and is out-recruiting UM. Prior to LSU's NC they been losing 3-5 games every year. There are only three nationally elite teams consistently...Bama, Clemson, & OSU. Everyone else has ups and downs. But, that doesn't stop them from getting top 5 recruiting classes so I don't buy it should UM with a top national brand and a top national coach.
Georgia has been vastly more successful than Michigan at actually winning something that matters. They also pay players and don’t make them take actual classes.
if that’s what you want from Michigan, I’m glad you’re unhappy.
Georgia has been vastly more successful than Michigan at actually winning something that matters.
Vastly more successful? They lose 3 games every year and lose to Bama every year. The only difference between UGA and UM is that OSU is in UM's division preventing them from winning it and Bama is not in UGAs division. UGA is the Wisconsin of the SEC.
Vastly more successful?
Are you even trying dude? Seriously, you're wasting my time at this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_College_Football_Playoff_National_Championship
You don't seem very well informed.
Georgia is winning 10.4 games a year under Kirby Smart and went to the national championship game a few years ago.
You are also talking about teams in recruiting hotbed territory. You brought up Georgia. The State of Georgia had 34 recruits ranked 4-star or higher in 2020, and they have 29 in the class of 2021. I won't even bother looking at Texas's numbers, because we already know about Texas.
"Everyone else has ups and downs." No, they don't. Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State literally have not had any downs while kids being recruited right now were older than about 7 or 8 years old. I don't know about you, but I wasn't paying a ton of attention to college football before that age. Here's the last time that any of those teams won fewer than 10 games:
Alabama (2009)
Clemson (2010)
Ohio State (2011)
In that span Michigan won 5 games in 2009, 7 games in 2010, 8 games in 2012, 7 games in 2013, 5 games in 2014, 9 games in 2017, and 9 games in 2020.
Georgia is winning 10.4 games a year under Kirby Smart and went to the national championship game a few years ago.
That's exactly one more game per year than JH. Prior to last year it would have been the exact same.
You are also talking about teams in recruiting hotbed territory.
OSU went from recruiting like UM during the 70s, 80s, 90s, & 00s until Meyer got there then took them to what they do now. Why can't UM?
Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State literally have not had any downs while kids being recruited right now were older than about 7 or 8 years old.
I said those three are elite every year. Everyone else...as in other than them, have ups and downs every year. There are clearly HCs that go places and improve recruiting immediately prior to winning anything. Saban did it at LSU and Bama. Smart did it at UGA. Fisher did it at FSU and A&M. Meyer did it at Florida and OSU. They all had top 5 classes coming off 4-5 loss seasons the year before they got there and continue to recruit at an elite level every year since they arrived. It seems clear they are doing something JH is not and probably needs to to compete with OSU.
"There has been a lot of talk ..."
Yes, "People are saying things."
Maybe include some links to resources we could review? Otherwise you might not be taken seriously. We do need to see the details.
I mis-spoke when I said Ohio State has 17 players who are 4-stars or higher. I meant the STATE OF OHIO. My bad. So the State of Ohio has 17 4-star or higher players while Michigan has 20 4-star or higher players. That's hardly a talent differential.
WINNING should prevent Michigan from doing the same.
Michigan 5-stars on the roster:
Dax Hill (OK)
Chris Hinton (GA)
Ohio State 5-stars on the roster:
Baron Browning (TX)
Shaun Wade (FL)
Wyatt Davis (TX)
Nick Petit-Frere (FL)
Taron Vincent (FL)
Tyreke Johnson (FL)
Zach Harrison (OH)
Garrett Wilson (TX)
Harry Miller (GA)
Julian Fleming (PA)
Paris Johnson (OH)
Jaxon Smith-Njigba (TX)
Also, I'm not really sure why this issue is being raised in a thread where the player mentioned is a 4-star and the #101 player in the country.
Because zero of his CB are for UM.
Come on dude! He has zero crystal balls in general.
https://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Julien-Simon-at-Lincoln-204133/CurrentExpertPredictions/
LOL. Exactly.
Gotcha, didn't realize that. I assumed when Magnus said that it meant he wasn't coming to UM, not that he doesn't have a leader yet...my mistake.
Not to toot my own horn here, but I think this describes the "administrative structure and strategy" that Urban put in place.
You want to go down that route? I can't find an argument against it, personally.
Yes, I'm all for going that route. I could care less if a kid gets a new car or bag of cash. He probably deserves it anyways. Just get the kids to compete with OSU so long as they aren't criminals.
Go ahead and care less then.
Huh? Are you saying UM kids are getting bags of cash and cars? I care about getting the recruits. I don't care about how it's done. I won't be happy losing to OSU every year for eternity.
Correct expression: I couldn’t care less
his point
your head.
Since Michigan pretty much out-recruits every other team in the Big 10, do you think Michigan's system is better than all of theirs?
Over the last 5 years Michigan has had the following recruiting finishes on 247:
2020 - Second
2019 - First
2018 - Third
2017 - Second
2016 - Second
I imagine that if we were to beat OSU once or twice we would recruit better, but I don't believe Michigan has a vastly inferior strategy to the team in Columbus. I believe wins make recruiting easier.
We need to overcome slightly less talent and win the Big 10 to get the boost you are looking for.
Here's a link 247's team rankings - https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/
IMO I believe it to be the talent evaluation and coaching. I think of Derrick Greene and Kareem Walker in particular - both 5 star guys that were initially, heavily recruited by osu but then backed off and lost interest in both. Both were flops with us. I saw the same thing with Peoples-Jones, Gary and Peppers - 5 star guys that never really played to potential. All 3 were good, but not 5 star guys. I think that was on the coaches. Peppers also switched position so often he was never able to get totally comfortable anywhere.
Since I got the dreaded double-post I thought I would share a quote from Matt Dudek:
"Michigan is a special, different place," Dudek said. "Not everybody fits here and it needs to be treated that way as a special, different place. The admissions department, they're not accepting someone that is a 2.0, 800 SAT and neither are we. From a standpoint, and not necessarily from grades, just from the below-the-standard of what Michigan is... I love when I read, 'they didn't know about this guy or they're not recruiting this guy hard.' We know who that guy is, we don't want him. There is a level of that. We could've got him, they picked another school over us. Maybe we told him to go to that other school. Again, I'm talking in generalities. There's a lot of guys in the last year, for example, there's a couple of guys that I thought for sure that we were in the mix and we wanted. We loved. We didn't get them at the end."
Here's the link - https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Article/Michigan-Director-of-Recruiting-Matt-Dudek-discusses-star-ranking-argument-117564129/
Wtf!?! We are in what appears to be the top three for this kid who by the way is a top 100 overall kid versatile athletic fits our system would be a great viper or linebacker... And is projected as a first-round draft pick in the mold of Myles Jack!!! And you post this s*** lol? C'mon man... Be better than that ?
Anyone care to make a wager on whether he commits?
Our reliance on the star system I think is part of our problem, it's VERY subjective and it's known people can pay to get stars or bumped up the rankings. example
Where I live there is a no star LB who has a few small offers and one D1 program but is somehow ranked in the mid 30's in the state at LB, he has gone to camps and there has been no real buzz about him other than his older brother is a hell of a LB at a Blueblood program, counter that with a kid who plays in the same district and a 3 star LB who has more and better offers from D1 schools but somehow is ranked in the 60's in the state at LB. He has 3 blue bloods recruiting him and was told by one blue blood whoever gave him 3 stars doesn't know football because he should be a 4 star easily but they aren't going to complain because he will be under the radar. so how does a kid who has zero stars and seemingly no real big offers ranked almost 30 spots higher than him at the LB position in State?
We have ZERO problem getting 3 and 4* athletes and a few 5* athletes but having spoken with some former players our biggest issue is identifying who the real studs are and then developing them compared to ohio. I think our biggest issue is identifying true talent and then once getting them here developing them. ohio seems to find kids that have much higher ceilings then somehow getting more out of them than the original ceiling.
The other big area of difference is the S&C. ohio has Coach Marotti and THAT ONE MAN sets the tone for their program on competition and development. The man is worshiped down there, he gets it, he knows how to get the most out of guys who are good and making them great and taking great players and turning them into absolutely ELITE among ELITE.
There is not one glaringly obvious area that we are not good at but a combination of the key areas that we are not excelling at that add up to being a huge gap. Neg away but we need an overall culture change.