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WTKA Roundtable 9/14/2023: Double-Agents Comment Count

Seth September 14th, 2023 at 10:34 AM

Things Discussed:

  • NOTE: The first 29 minutes are on Mel Tucker/MSU. I get on with Sam early to talk about the leak, and then the panel joins to discuss what we've know and don't know. If you want to skip all that, go to 29:01.
  • BGSU Double-Agents Craig Ross and Jack Harbaugh are exposed.
  • Next MSU coach? Paul Chryst? He banked his program on Graham Mertz, but it's one mistake. Craig: Chryst would be their Tommy Amaker palette-cleanser.
  • Illinois: defense has fallen apart despite having a 1st rounder in Jer'zhan Newton.
  • UNLV review: JJ has been incredible.
  • Defensive line is coming in over expectations. Gameplan vs UNLV was have them win doubles and they did it flawlessly.
  • Run game issues: They've got 3 guys who are hypothetically good at OZ and then they have Hinton and Keegan who are moving away from their best assets.
  • Lost their identity: haven't run a pin & pull all year.
  • OZ is expensive; if they actually get that good at it they are the best OL of all time. They can make it a 4th pitch but not a 2nd pitch without making that the thing they do.
  • Probably not getting the top transfer OL anymore if they're not playing Henderson.
  • Feels like they're overreaching with this, trying to find other ways to get outside.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

Seth was on early here. Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

He bet his entire program on Graham Mertz; sign me up!

Comments

Blue Balls Afire

September 14th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^

If you're Brian Hartline, isn't MSU the perfect gig?  You're getting HC experience while waiting for the OSU job to open up, there are low expectations (just win 7 - 8 games a year and beat Michigan every once in a while), you already hate Michigan sincerely, you're familiar with MSU's recruiting area, any success at all means you're a genius while any failure means MSU is a tough place to win.  Sign me up!

Joined: 12/17/2013

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Vasav

September 14th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^

I have a minority view here but I think MSU is a pretty solid gig, especially when they're no longer in the Big Ten East. The 3 eastern powers have Top 5 expectations - that's a pressure cooker it's hard to get out of. MSU would be a solid Big Ten West program - probably one of the better ones - and has had more success than Wisconsin of late. I'm not sure how we'll look at success in the new big ten, but I imagine "top third of the league" and "championship game challenger" or "regular season co-champ" will be accolades that schools outside of M-OSU-PSU-USC (and maybe Oregon-Washington) will take pride in.

Yes, they share a state and have an annual game against Michigan. And over the long term, M-OSU-PSU-USC are top ten programs. But when M slips up (and every one of those 4 has slipped up in the last 30 years), MSU is primed to look stellar. And even if that's not while you're there, you can still look great as a second tier big ten program. Worked for Saban, right?

Joined: 12/13/2009

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Vasav

September 14th, 2023 at 1:25 PM ^

Yea that's a fair point. I love SP+ but I think wins is a more important metric - SP+ is to predict wins, not the stat to get to in and of itself. But you're right, Wisconsin, as well as Iowa, have probably been peers of MSU (at worst) since Sparty made the CFP near a decade ago. I was overrating MSU's 11-win campaign from 2021, which looks mostly like a blip, pending this year.

That said, outside of the M-OSU-PSU trio, I think it's fair to say MSU is in tier 2 with Wisconsin and Iowa. (Although, I'm not sure PSU has yet done anything on the field to really distinguish themselves from those three tier-2 programs)

Joined: 12/13/2009

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Perkis-Size Me

September 14th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^

I'm not sure there would be any interest from either side as pertains to Mike Hart.

He started the whole little brother thing and while yes it was 16 years ago and yes Hart was just a college kid trying to ruffle some feathers, he would be hated by that fanbase from Day 1. Even moreso than the "old guard" and "traditionalists" of the Michigan fanbase hated RichRod. That was a strong dislike of a man who was considered an outsider but had never done wrong by Michigan, talked trash about it, etc.

Hart would be despised to the n'th possible degree, because whether or not it was sixteen years ago, he directly insulted MSU and its entire fanbase, and that message still permeates through MSU and this rivalry to this day. Probably still will in 50 years. 

I don't doubt there would be portions of the fanbase/boosters who would work to undermine him at every turn and try to get him fired, even at the expense of their football program. He would basically have to go and beat Michigan and win the Big Ten in Year 1 for the MSU fanbase to just let bygones be bygones. 

May not be the best comparison, but it would be like Michigan hiring Justin Boren to be its head coach. Hiring a guy who essentially spat in your face.

 

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Tom Pickle

September 14th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^

Maybe this is crazy, or maybe it's not because they've come out and said they have a "Beat Georgia" period in their off-season practices, could repping so much Outside Zone be a plan of attack they see as a weakness for Georgia?

If they do for some reason see that as a weakness then they've got a whole bunch more time to rep it.

Joined: 11/05/2008

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willirwin1778

September 14th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^

So wait, OLU transfers in and wins Rimington. 
 

Henderson transfers in a bit late and doesn’t play against first two cupcakes. 
 

Therefore we can’t bring in great O Line transfers anymore.  Seems a bit of an overreaction to me. 

Joined: 03/09/2013

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Hensons Mobile…

September 14th, 2023 at 3:21 PM ^

Seth, I know most people don't seem to care about this part of the story. I'm like one of the three people on the board who are even asking or talking about it. But you said something to start in the segment with Sam that I just do not understand.

You said: "They had a lot of documentation that I don't even know if Brenda Tracy had. That was internal documentation that was in the USA Today article."

This is what the article said:

"USA TODAY typically does not identify people who allege sexual harassment. Tracy agreed to be identified and shared more than 1,200 pages of case documents."

Everything in the article appears to have come from Tracy or a friend of Tracy. Most of the information came from the investigator's findings, which came from Tracy.

Joined: 09/12/2019

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Hensons Mobile…

September 14th, 2023 at 3:47 PM ^

Also, to clear up the Title IX question, from ESPN’s Mel Tucker FAQ from two days ago:

While the office at Michigan State that investigates Title IX complaints is handling this case, Tracy's allegations were not classified as a Title IX complaint. The federal Title IX law guarantees equal access to education and typically applies to complaints made by or pertaining to students. However, it's common for universities to adopt a policy for addressing sexual violence and harassment that conforms with Title IX regulations and apply it to all types of complainants and situations. Guerrant said all allegations of sexual misconduct, relationship violence or stalking fall under the same policy at Michigan State.

So technically Mel’s statement was correct. Materially it doesn’t matter one iota. He included it to deflect, distract, and confuse.

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