This Week’s Obsession: Big Ten Stock Up/Stock Down Comment Count

Seth

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State’s got a new fools-hurdler. [NBC Sports]

The Question:

Now that we're entering conference play, let's recalibrate. Which Big Ten teams are significantly better/worse than we thought they'd be?

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The Responses:

Ace: I’ll start this by saying it’s college football, and it’s still early: if we were posed this question last week I would’ve said Iowa had surpassed my expectations. One week later...

…they are who we thought they were. I also had serious doubts about Wisconsin entering the season; they beat LSU, which is a feat no matter how much coaching malpractice Cam Cameron is allowed to commit, destroyed Akron, and then, uh, put up a 12th-percentile performance to eke out a victory over a bad Georgia State squad. Now they’re changing QBs. I still have my doubts. In fact, pending more contextualizing info on MSU’s win over Notre Dame, the Big Ten has mostly held to form, at least in relation my preseason expectations.

The exception, I hate to say, is Ohio State; I thought there would be a few more hiccups on both sides of the ball after the exodus of NFL talent. Instead, the Death Star appears fully operational. Other than the interior D-line, which looks a little shaky, every major question has been answered: the run game hasn’t missed a beat with Mike Weber and Curtis Samuel taking over for Zeke Elliott, Noah Brown looks like a legit #1 receiver, JT Barrett has been very good, and a secondary that looked like a potential sore spot in the preseason has been one of their most reliable sources of big plays.

Ugh.

[Hit THE JUMP for WMU, NDSU, and other better ideas than Rutgers]

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David: Stock down: Probably Northwestern.  The Wildcats lost to (an improved?) Western Michigan team to start the season.  Then, they followed that up with a second home non-conference loss in a row to lowly Illinois State, only scoring 7 points.  Woof.  They did, however, defeat Duke in Quiz Bowl 2016 after initially struggling.  Duke, unfortunately, lost to Wake Forest the previous week.  So, take that with a grain of salt.  Northwestern had a nice 10-win season in 2015, but sitting 1-2 with Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State looming on the schedule, I think Northwestern would sign up for a bowl game, right now.

Stock up: Ohio State.  Sigh.  See what Ace wrote if you are a masochist.

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Adam: Stock up: Ohio State's the clear-cut correct answer, but there are ways to justify including Michigan State and Nebraska here. We need to see more from each to figure out whether they've defeated quality teams or overranked pretenders, but each has a win over a team that was ranked when they played them without a slip-up to a directional Michigan school or a state institution from one of the Dakotas or Illinois State, which is a school that exists. The bar for inclusion here is pretty BIG TENNNNNN. Nebraska's three most difficult remaining games are at Wisconsin, at Ohio State, and at Iowa. Two of those three seem significantly easier than a week ago; Nebraska's a good contender to be the Iowa 2015 of this year.

Stock down: I know David already mentioned them, but for me the biggest disappointment is Northwestern. I thought Thorson and the offensive line would get better--incrementally better, but better none the less--but they look like they've somehow gotten worse; the line is ranked 119th in opportunity rate (generating 5+ yards for the RB), while Thorson's completing 49% of his passes for 5.8 yards per attempt. The O-line can't block anybody (runs are being stopped in the backfield 24.2% of the time, which ranks 110th nationally) and the defense can't prop up the team all season. They're now favored to win just three more games, and none of the projected win margins is more than six points. There's something that looks a lot like a 2014 Michigan storm brewing (minus the AD saga), and it's headed for Evanston.

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Seth: The rivals look better. The Chris Ash Era is 2-0 in their last two games after two fierce comebacks, flipping a 14-0 halftime deficit to Howard into a 52-14 blowout, and storming back from down 21-0 to New Mexico to win 37-28. As long as Janarion Grant can keep running around high school players Ash is going to win a lot of games in Piscataway.

Clearly we didn't think Michigan State would beat Notre Dame, but for the most part they were what we thought they were. They'll stop the run at any cost, and the cost was 10.9 YPA (sack-adjusted) to DeShone Kizer despite the Irish declining to test them deep as often as they should. LJ Scott is a rushing offense despite the offensive line; the apparent improvement against Notre Dame turned out to be a very conservative gameplan, and getting away with a ton of holding. Malik McDowell is a defensive line unto himself, and State seemed to have learned their lesson about flipping him to end. Madaris and Corley can play.

I thought this was an upset. State gave up a TD on the opening kickoff that got called back for a hold I'm not sure was one. The Spartans' opening score came off a shorted punt hitting the back leg of an Irish player and Donnie Corley ripping a long interception out of the Domer CB's hands. It was also a coaching mismatch. Dantonio went for it on 4th and 1, called a timely quick 2-point conversion, covered up O'Connor's deficiencies with max pro and rub routes that get his primary read open, and picked on the Domers' iffy secondary. Kelly punted down 8 in the 4th quarter and didn't test MSU deep until he was down 29-7.

Of those we haven’t covered, Minnesota is exactly what we thought they were, Maryland has a long way to go, and Purdue is so bad the fact that two of their playing time transfer quarterbacks are starting for SEC powers is exactly as hilarious as that sounds. Penn State got all of their linebackers injured already somehow, but remain 14th in S&P defense. Nebraska is Penn State in reverse. Illinois is surprisingly bad or just bad depending on if you were trying to justify an Illini defender on your Draftageddon squad.

Other than Iowa, the Big Ten got out of non-conference season pretty okay, with victories over Notre Dame, LSU, Oregon, and Oklahoma to buoy a hypothetical 1-loss champion into the playoffs.

I'm not surprised about Wisconsin: LSU was just as responsible for that upset, and Georgia State is one of those teams like Air Force whom nobody should ever schedule [I got them confused with GA Southern]. Ohio State, well, they're never the same team you see in the beginning of the season, so if they're rolling now perhaps that means they'll come apart late this time. That's the ticket!

Comments

M-Dog

September 20th, 2016 at 11:19 AM ^

Ohio State, well, they're never the same team you see in the beginning of the season, so if they're rolling now perhaps that means they'll come apart late this time. That's the ticket!

I was thinking this as well.  Sometimes things go too well early.

LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

 

Sopwith

September 20th, 2016 at 11:27 AM ^

Why their Death Star always gotta be fully operational? 

Good thing Jibreel is practicing on Womp Rats, cause he's got some trench-flyin and exhaust port shootin' to do.

UMAmaizinBlue

September 20th, 2016 at 11:31 AM ^

The Big Ten in general. Yes, we have the crappy teams and bad losses, but every conference has that happen every season (yes, even the SEC). With OSU, UM, Nebraska, MSU, and (to a lesser extent) Wisconsin all undefeated and defeating opponents other than cupcakes, the B10 looks like a better conference overall, even with Iowa disappointing and NW doing it's best Rutgers/Illinois/Purdue impersonation.

 

Stock Down: The guy who sits in front of me at the games who, after 3 series, told everyone that Speight was done and O'Korn was "The Guy". Better to remain silent, and all that.

SelleckStache

September 20th, 2016 at 11:32 AM ^

Seth, think you're confusing Georgia State with Georgia Southern in your analysis of Wisconsin (only reason I know differently is I now reside in the Peach State). 

Georgia State is the program who was created in 2010 and is all time 17-53

Georgia Southern is the team that beat Florida without throwing a pass (in which two Gators blocked themselves). 

Stringer Bell

September 20th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^

I think Notre Dame is definitely a vastly overrated pretender.  That defense is atrocious, and their offense isn't all that impressive despite the talent level.  Even with their awful schedule, that looks like a 5, maybe even 6 loss team.  But because it's Notre Dame, any win will be viewed as a marquee win (i.e. Texas is back!!!!.........until they lose to Cal).

pdgoblue25

September 20th, 2016 at 12:04 PM ^

But they were definitely overrated this year.  Last year's team before injuries could have gone undefeated, but they had some serious talent graduate, then stupidity led to suspensions of key players.

Combine that with MSU having 2 weeks to prepare and some fortunate calls, they end up winning by 1 score.

My opinion, I think both MSU and ND are overrated.  I think two teams that should be ranked in the 20s-30s played each other.

Cranky Dave

September 20th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^

as we all like to make fun of "Urbz" and say we're going to drive him back into retirement from coaching we should just stop doubting him.  As long as he coaches OSU they will be a formidable program.  We're getting to that stage but getting back to the domination during the Cooper era ain't happening with Meyer in charge.  Winning 50% of the time over the next 10 years is what I expect. 

Lie-Cheat-Steal

September 20th, 2016 at 11:47 AM ^

He's built a monster in Columbus, but he's also a front-runner who has feasted on a weak B1G confernce.  Great coach, but a different animal than Harbaugh in that we have already seen Urban burn out.

Also, the fact that he already has the national title and is 4-5 years in at OSU means that his program will start to decelerate as we accelerate (it's just the ebb and flow of college football).

Harbaugh truly enjoys coaching and loves competition....Meyer is an amazing coach but every loss takes a chunk out of his soul.  

All things being equal..(recruiting, coaching acumen, facilities, etc) over the next 10 years, and I expect Harbaugh to send Urban into retirement simply due to personality differences and how it will impact the programs.  Harbaugh is just non-stop.

Lie-Cheat-Steal

September 20th, 2016 at 1:22 PM ^

OMG, I offended someone on the blog and now have negative points...all my opinions in life are now devalued.  Ok, congrats on that logic.

Everybody likes to react to the latest game or recruit, but is it not true that MSU with 3* talent has managed to beat OSU twice in the last 4 years?

Is it not true that Harbaugh showed up at Stanford and took it to Pete Carrol and USC which was the dynasty at the level of current Bama of that era? 

Everyone Murders

September 20th, 2016 at 12:09 PM ^

I would so like you to be right on this, but the evidence suggests that Meyer has found his home, and will continue to have great success.  He has his pick of Ohio talent, has good connections with premier h.s. programs elsewhere, and a good brand to sell.

I see him more like Nick Saban now that he's found some balance in his life (if we take the BR story at face value).  He's built a machine and just needs to maintain it.  I don't see him going anywhere any time soon absent a major life event.

Which is OK.  I think that Harbaugh will bring it to our rivals, and has the team headed in the right direction.  And he's still doing it largely with Hoke's guys.  Hoke recruited well, but Harbaugh recruits really well and the dividends of that are not fully in play yet.  (Obviously players like Gary and last year Rudock are Harbaugh guys, but the bulk of the team is still Hoke.)  Harbaugh's building his own monster, and this rivalry will be tight again beginning this year.

What I see is a return to the days where Michigan and OSU are usually 1 and 2 in the B1G, and that will persist for a while.  And when Meyer does retire, I think Hermann comes back and they don't miss much of a beat.

markusr2007

September 20th, 2016 at 12:11 PM ^

He's lost one Big Ten game in his first 4 years.

That's never happened.

Ever.

For 2017 recruiting Ohio State is kicking Nick Saban's teeth in with 6 (SIX!) 5 star recruits already and it's only September.

At this point, Urban Meyer could probably coast to 11-1 or 12-0 over the next 3 years while doing little more than ordering Domino's pizza during Saturday games and riding laps around the football field of Ohio Stadium on tricycle and handing out lollipops to local kids.

Harbaugh has to make hay while the sun shines this year with all his seniors and experience, but the game is in Columbus. Tall order despite more team starts.

Ohio does not have any talent deficit to Harbaugh's Michigan, even this year. 

Harbaugh will get his, but I question whether Michigan can expect 50% wins over the next 10 years unless recruiting dramatically improves.

FWIW OSU just finished blasting Oklahoma out of their home stadium while Michigan struggled to put down a perennial PAC-12 and Big 12 basement dweller. Ohio's quarterback threw only 20 passes Saturday night. 4 of them were caught in the end zone.

More of the same, and it's obscene.

I know what you're trying to say. But wishful thinking about Harbaugh just doesn't cut it.

schreibee

September 20th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^

I don't wanna make you more Cranky, but you "expect" us to beat osu 50% of the time over the next decade?!

I "expect" us to compete better than in JH's 1st year, but I hope for 50% and pray for more than that... but "expect"? I dunno about all that.

But...... sounds nice!

schreibee

September 20th, 2016 at 2:29 PM ^

I so very much wish I was as optimistic as you Your Crankiness, but nothing that's happened in the past year has given me that feeling.

From last year's osu game, through last week's results, to the player's adjusting to the new D, to crootin - I'm afraid that's all forcing me into a "hopes" for 50% and "prays" for better mentality.

Now a win in Columbus could sure improve my attitude, I'll give you that!

ijohnb

September 20th, 2016 at 11:38 AM ^

it is worth, if I recall correctly, I think Kelly punting was unquestionably the right move.  He had 4th and 13 from his own 35ish with 3.5 minutes left in the game, a timeout, and a Michigan State team that seemed to have actively stopped trying to gain yards.  I would call it a stretch to go for a 4th and 13 at that point, and flipping the field would seem to have been in his best interest.  His D did not get the stop but I can't call it a coaching blunder.

In reply to by ijohnb

MaizeNBlue_Kzoo

September 20th, 2016 at 4:22 PM ^

I guess we will disagree then. When you are down 15, until you attempt the 2 point conversion you don't know if you are down 2 scores or 3. When you are down 8, you don't know if you are down 1 score or 2. The sooner you know that, the sooner you can optimize your strategy for the rest of the game.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

ijohnb

September 21st, 2016 at 12:23 PM ^

have to play as though you are down one score.  The likelihood of converting the two point conversion is higher than the likelihood of putting together another random drive of unknown distance to kick a field goal, and if you take the extra points you are extending the amount of time you are legitimately in the game.

Njia

September 20th, 2016 at 11:51 AM ^

I agreed with Flutie on that one. The Irish had the ball - and they were relying on things working out for their defense - that had been gashed by the Spartans rushing attack - in their favor. They'd come storming back by having Kizer throw the ball downfield; and the MSU D was only rushing 4 and dropping back 7.

It seemed to me more like Brian Kelly's strategery was out-kicking his mental coverage.