Pipkins To Transfer, Says He Was Pressured To Sign Medical Hardship Papers
Pipkins got on the field late in the opener last year [Bryan Fuller]
Ondre Pipkins will attempt to use his last year(s) of eligibility elsewhere and he is not happy about it:
"I feel I'm healthy and ready to play," said Pipkins, who played last season after he was cleared to return from a torn knee ligament. "I don't want to sign the form. I wanted to play for my seniors and for the team. Coach Harbaugh said, 'I recommend you take the medical.'"
Pipkins said he felt constant pressure to retire. …
Harbaugh told him that he wanted "to make sure you graduate from Michigan" and that the coach did not plan to invite him to fall camp due in part to medical concerns. The lineman added that Harbaugh told him that he did not believe he would be drafted into the NFL for medical reasons.
"I feel bad I wasn't able to complete this journey with my classmates," Pipkins told ESPN. "I feel I am healthy and without pain. I believe Michigan wanted to free up the scholarship. I felt I was practicing well and could compete at a high level at the nose tackle and tackle positions."
First off, good for Pipkins for saying something about it—and apparently painting Harbaugh in a somewhat sympathetic light.
But this is a strange situation for a lot of reasons. I can't really figure out why Harbaugh would want to run Pipkins out of town:
- He was scheduled to be a senior and Michigan is at 85 scholarships right now, with the three former walk-ons (Kerridge, Glasgow, Glasgow) we think will get scholarships in 2015 accounted for.
- Pipkins thus doesn't impact the numbers in the 2016 class; the only reason he'd need to go this year is if Michigan was going to bring in yet more transfers.
- ND DE transfer Jhonathan Williams was just told no by Michigan.
- I'm sure at least one other player has a very legit medical hardship-inducing injury they haven't announced yet.
There were some rumors Michigan was looking at fifth year wide receivers that haven't come to fruition as of yet, but none of this really makes sense. Michigan seems to have room for him, and the move would appear to be a redshirt (that he should have gotten as a freshman /shakes fist at Hoke) so that he can be a fifth year somewhere else after getting his degree. That is unless he actually shouldn't play football.
Pipkins asserts in the article that Michigan wanted the scholarship… but for what?
and you seem to back me up on what I'm saying with one exception.
You imply that OSU would do this because he might not be able to play up to his formerly high ranking. I could be wrong but it was my understanding that Dean wasn't cleared to play at all by the med staff.
Not that he could play but would likely be hobbled a bit and therefore Urban pressured him into signing the medical or transferring. If that is what happened then I agree that is shitty. But that is not how I understood it to be.
My whole thing was to laugh and point out the ridiculous rationalizations on here. It has gotten to the point of absurd. Again not necessarily cause they are wrong but because most posters on here wouldn't even bother to consider these same takes for another coach.
I'm sure there is some shitty stuff happening at OSU (like I belive happens at all schools) I just don't think Dean is an example of it.
"But that is not how I understood it to be."
Well yeah, of course not. Because the coaching staff isn't going to say "Well Dean isn't good anymore so we're telling him to leave. He could play, but not as well as we hoped, so we're using a medical to get rid of him instead."
What would have happened that would make you understand it that way?
"I could be wrong but it was my understanding that Dean wasn't cleared to play at all by the med staff."
Right, because once again, if the OSU med staff decided that he wasn't going to be good enough to play at OSU and would rather have another player, it's much easier to just never clear him at all. That way you can keep his scholarship open in case you get a better player, like Arnette.
"My whole thing was to laugh and point out the ridiculous rationalizations on here."
So Michigan fans are rationalizing actions by Michigan's coaching staff to put it in a positive light? Oh my god, call the CIA!!! No other fan base has ever done that ever! Definitely not OSU with Jamel Dean or Jim Tressel or anything like that!!!
It's a Michigan site. The posters are Michigan fans. What do you expect?
Are some people being ridiculous? Yeah sure. But most of the rationalizations about why this isn't dirty by Harbaugh are pretty damn reasonable.
"most posters on here wouldn't even bother to consider these same takes for another coach."
You may be right about that. For a school like OSU or MSU especially. But at the same time there are some fans here agreeing with you. And if it were a random school like Oregon State, I'm pretty sure most people here would have the same opinion.
"I just don't think Dean is an example of it."
When I say understood it to be, I'm not taking the coaching staff's word. I don't believe they commented on the situation. I'm referring to news articles saying the Med staff would not clear him.
I think earlier you accused/questioned (quite indignantly) me of saying JH would pressure the med staff to say Pipkins couldn't play. It may have been another poster so if it wasn't you I apologize but you just implied above that the OSU staff would not clear someone if there was someone the OSU coaching staff wanted more. Kind of seems the same thing.
For the record I don't think coaches have any say with medical staff clearings at any school anymore.
I'm not saying none of the rationalizations are reasonable (or that they are even unexpected) but that they are pretty funny considering the limited amount of knowledge everyone has on the situation so it would take some mental hurdling to come up with some of these examples. They may even be true, but reading the responses to some of the things that a Saban or Meyer or Dantonio allegedly do, I figured that the responses would be a little more thought out at least.
Your last paragraph implies, but does not say specifically, that it's a shocker I don't think what OSU does is ever dirty. I won't say that ever, but that in this specific case I don't believe anything shady was done. that's it.
"JH would pressure the med staff to say Pipkins couldn't play. It may have been another poster so if it wasn't you I apologize but you just implied above that the OSU staff would not clear someone if there was someone the OSU coaching staff wanted more. Kind of seems the same thing."
The original point of yours I replied to was:
"the timeline and details of the Dean situation absolutely do NOT lend themselves to pushing a guy out for a scholly. This one POSSIBLY does."
That's what I was trying to disprove. . Either each staff was clean, or each wasn't. But you can't have it both ways to support your own point, which is what this quote is. If it's the same thing, like you said in your first quote, then how come "the Dean situation absolutely do NOT lend themselves to pushing a guy out for a scholly", but the Pipkins one may?
"Your last paragraph implies, but does not say specifically, that it's a shocker I don't think what OSU does is ever dirty. I won't say that ever, but that in this specific case I don't believe anything shady was done. that's it."
and
"they are pretty funny considering the limited amount of knowledge everyone has on the situation so it would take some mental hurdling to come up with some of these examples. "
I think the first quote is an exact example of what you're criticizing in the second quote.
and knock this thing out huh? I don't think we are that far apart yet the gap looks huge.
I say Dean doesn't lend itself mainly due to timing not so much scholarship numbers. I say it is POSSIBLE (I am not making a judgment as to how likely) that Pipkins could be. I have no idea if it is.
You mention me saying the two are the same. I meant on the surface as in it looks like the players were forced/pressured to take medicals to clear a scholarship.
Right. He was deemed totally unable to play. Which is probably their rationale for not wanting to actually say "you can play but not as good as we thought, there's the door." It's probably easier for the medical staff to say, "nah, you can't play anymore, man" than it is to say "you can play but you're going to be a shell of a player and limp around out there" It's also possible OSU's med staff deems people who can't get back to their pre-injury baseline levels as being DQ'd for playing in the future. Even if they still technically can "play." That concept makes a lot of sense to me from a "you can't ever be what you once were, there's no future in this anymore, retire before you turn your brain and knees to mush for nothing" sense.
But again, who knows? I'm just trying to find reasons for Dean being medical'd, because on its face it makes 0 sense.
that OSU docs legitimately thought he couldn't play. Nothing more nothing less.
Because I agree nothing else about it makes sense. I was really looking forward to him playing at OSU.
And the reason Pipkins may be leaving is that Michigan docs thought he couldn't play. Nothing more nothing less.
Although it seems to be slight difference between Dean and this is not being cleared and being told you probably shouldn't do this but we will let you make the call.
Harbaugh may generally be looking out for the kid by saying I don't think you should play.
I never disagreed that this was or could be the case. Just posters reactions to it vs. their reactions to other similar cases.
"Although it seems to be slight difference between Dean and this is not being cleared and being told you probably shouldn't do this but we will let you make the call."
This doesn't make sense. The OSU staff was able to not clear Dean because his injuries occured before he got to OSU, so they were able to not clear him when he first got on campus. So the first time OSU's staff was able to judge Dean for themselves they told him he can't play.
Pipkins was already on campus when his injuries occured. He was healthy when he first got to campus so he was cleared. After that, it was impossible for Michigan doctors to not clear him in the same sense OSU doctors didn't clear Dean.
Once Harbaugh got here, the first time his staff was able to evaluate Pipkins, the did the same exact thing as the OSU staff and told him he shouldn't play. They never said they were going to let him make the call. They told him what they wanted to do, but Pipkins refused to agree. There's no way Michigan can force him to sign the medical, so what are they supposed to do?
Basically you're criticizing Harbaugh for not being the coach when Pipkins first got injured, which makes no sense.
between a player not being cleared at all and a player being told he won't play because the coach says the Dr.'s advise against it but won't go as far as to say you can't suit up for us.
I'm not saying one is worse than the other if the kids interests are really being looked out for. I'm really not.
How many times do I have to explain this?
Harbaugh DID say that Pipkins can't suit up for him. That's why he told him to medical. He told Pipkins he doesn't believe he's healthy enough to play, so I'm not going to allow you play. If you want to stay on scholarship at Michigan, you need to medical. Pipkins was never going to play another down ever again at Michigan. That's why he was told he needs to rest his body for 6 months.
That's why Pipkins transferred. Because he still wanted to play football but Harbaugh was never going to let him suit up for Michigan again.
Also very possible.
Trying to ascribe motivations to actions? You guys are making it way too hard. If you like the person/institution they did it for the right reasons, if you don't like them then it is clear evidence that they are, in fact, evil.
If ever there was a group to give sports fan bias a run for their money it would be political affiliations and the hoops they jump through to justify their side.
playing more. The one thing that seems to be a given is that Pipkens had developed arthritis in the knee that was only going to get worse if he continued playing and that he had two concussions. Pipkens even said that Harbaugh said he wasn't going to get to the NFL. I see that as saying you've done a lot of damage to your body. Give it up before it gets worse and I think Harbaugh had good intensions from that standpoint and if they indeed couldn't use the scholarship it's an easy call.
If the scholarship could be used in some manner, it gets murkier in that maybe he could play but not at the same level similar to what you said with Dean. It doesn't necessarily rule out that he could be looking to add a player with higher upside than Pipkins may have now but it's also possible the "You'll never make it to the NFL. It's time to give it up." was still intended to avoid having him do more damage to his body in a meaningless desire to get to the pros. Harbaugh would have a pretty good idea of his pro possiblities based on his medical reports.
Harbaugh could also be taking the approach of getting rid of guys who he don't think are producing up to his expectations.
None of us know at this point because no one will admit to the third option. I've always given some benefit of the doubt to situations like Dean's at other schools because we don't have the medical history and I'm not going to dump on Harbaugh without hard facts on him doing an option 3 type thing. The one given is that it is very doubtful given Harbaugh's personality that we will see him explaining himself anytime soon.
hot takes
Dean was an early enrollee at OSU so not only did he miss the 2nd half of his senior HS year to go to OSU early, he now may have to miss a year of college football due to transfer rules. This assumes that Dean is healthy enough to play.
Doesn't make the Pipkins situation any different, but you described the Dean situation incorrectly.
If you are going to argue that Brian is assuming, then you are not in better situation BUT ASSUMING..
One, Michigan was not over on scholly.. That should be first give away to your argument on why it makes no sense to process Pipkins out...
Second, we don't have much depth in the DL... So it would make no sense for JH to shoot himself in the foot to not let him play when we don't have enough depth...
Pipkins has a history of injuries on that knee no less... At least 2 I could recall... So again, on what ground are you telling me that he is 100% healthy? If the doctor is so sure, what changed? You think JH would persuade that doctor to change.. At that doctor's stake of getting his license revoked?
Come on.. You blasting others on the lack of rationality places you in the same boat... You lack as much or more rationality on the matter...
I said that Brian seems to be painting a picture that it doesn't make sense to drop him. Al the scholly numbers seem to bear that out and I get your dirth of depth on the DL. That may be true as I admitted he would know better than me. My point was that Harbaugh knows better than anyone is roster and his plans for said roster.
Maybe he was planning on bringing in someone else and needed that spot. Hell as another poster on here said, maybe he was trying to get Pipkins to sign the form so he could bring in Williams from ND and when he wouldn't they told Williams no room. I don't know at all and neither does anyone else.
I don't know if any of that is the actual case and I wasn't assuming that it was. Just saying it was possible and the scholarship numbers don't tell the whole story.
I don't believe I ever said he was 100% healthy. He could be completely damaged. How the hell do I know. I don't actually recall saying ANYTHING about his health or the accuracy of any reports regarding his health.
I was pointing out the hilarious rationalizations other posters were posting. Hell, they could all be true, but what I do know is that these rationalizations would NEVER have been given to another coach, say Urban or Saban. I say that because I saw many posts on here saying Urban had the OSU med staff have Dean declared ineligible so he could have his scholly because he oversigned. Not one that I saw gave him benefit of the doubt saying he would know his roster or he would never persuade the med staff to go along with him which would probalby be highly illegal.
That is the entirety behind my post.
But your point was shot downwith Dean because the doctors thought he could play BUT not at the level he was before the injury... I believe one of the Ohio fan even posted that...
As one article points out:
But Dean still enrolled at Ohio State in January for the start of the winter semester. He is around for spring football, though coaches said he wasn't participating. According to a report from 11 Warriors on Wednesday, Dean was not medically cleared to play by Ohio State.
Wilkinson confirmed that, but he said Dean had a second opinion from noted sports surgeon Dr. James Andrews. Wilkinson said Andrews' opinion was that Dean needed continued rehab on his knee and should be ready to resume full activities this summer. Meanwhile, Dean felt he was ready to contribute in some way this spring, and Wilkinson said he wasn't allowed to do that.
Wilkinson said he has been checking with other schools and that Dean will wind up at a school that will let him play.
Did the sports surgeon change his view? No... He affirm.. Dean was cleared with another school... Pipkins's doctor did...
solidifies my take/understanding. He WAS NOT MEDICALLY CLEARED TO PLAY BY OHIO STATE.
You said that my point was shot down because the doctors though he could play but not at the level....But it wasn't Ohio State's Dr.'s. It was an independent Dr. Granted a very well respected one but one that has no bearing on OSU's decision. And his opinion made no statement as to being able to play but not at the same level.
As for the OSU poster that said this, he was positing this as a possibility for the reason he wasn't cleared. He was saying that it is possible OSU's Dr.'s will not clear a kid if he can't play up to his supposed abilities. He was NOT saying that his is what happened. I happen to think that is really shady if true and disagree with him. I think the OSU staff as well as staffs at every school have more autonomy than that.
"Hell as another poster on here said, maybe he was trying to get Pipkins to sign the form so he could bring in Williams from ND and when he wouldn't they told Williams no room. "
I hope this isn't me you're referring to, because it would be a "hilarious rationalization" on your part, to quote you.
Pipkins is transferring. His scholarship no longer counts against the 85, so theoretically Michigan could take Williams. And I'm betting Michigan knew this two days ago, when they said no to Williams, since according to the article:
"He said he was told this week by Michigan that -- at his request -- he could have contact with Oklahoma State, Georgia State, TCU, Tennessee, Florida State or Washington State concerning a transfer."
This week means that when they told Williams they didn't have room, they knew Pipkins wouldn't be here. They told Pipkins this week who he could speak to, meaning the process was in the works far longer than that, so Michigan knew Pipkins was gone when they told Williams no.
So if Michigan's goal was to get Pipkins to leave to sign Williams, they succeeded in getting rid of Pipkins. So why would they have told Williams no at that point? Your logic makes no sense.
If Michigan just wanted Pipkins to leave, it didn't matter whether it was by transfer or medical. Your logic makes no sense.
There is literally 0 reason to believe that Harbaugh forced Pipkins out to take another player. The only possible justification is that he wanted another transfer, but since we just turned down one and there are no rumblings of another one coming, that logic holds no water. So unless you want to operate under the guilty until proven innocent mantra, you have no ground to stand on.
I just read it here.
Everything you say may be totally true. I don't even have a reason to tell you it isn't. It was the blind assumption (not yours but other posters I was referring to) that of course this is true and we couldn't be doing anything bad because numbers don't dictate the need to.
I personally doubt Harbaugh is going up to players and saying "you suck, go away" but that a head coach knows his roster the most and just because we don't know about potential moves they are making or want to make doesn't mean that something uncool isn't going down.
AGAIN, not accusing Harbaugh of doing it cause I really don't know just saying that just because we can't see a reason doesn't mean one doesn't exist to him (OR ANY HEADCOACH).
Go back under your bridge Troll. You suck.
I still like your avatar though.
I didn't finish my sentence.
You suck...Urban's dick. (See above as to what part of his anatomy to get off of, and thank you very much.)
The huge difference is does UM need the scholarship? For the "school to the southeast" it was a situation with a (potential) new enrollee, so giving him (or not) a scholarship made a difference. They needed the scholarship (whether that impacted their decision or not, is another question).
For Pipkins, we don't have any evidence that they needed the scholarship this year (the only year it mattered). As noted in the article, Pipkins will count towards the 85 limit (unlike the other situation) and he will only count for this year, when (as far as we know) UM is not at the limit.
Maybe that fact will change and we'll find out a month from now that UM does need to get under the limit for 2015. But that isn't a "fact" right now, from all the best info we have.
the timeline and details of the Dean situation absolutely do NOT lend themselves to pushing a guy out for a scholly.
This one POSSIBLY does.
The biggest problem with your story is that you're assuming that Harbaugh had the most nefarious intentions in all of his actions while Urban had the most pure.
You said in one post:
"the med staff determined that Dean would never play a down at OSU."
But in another post you say:
"NO ONE knows their roster and possible attrition or future roster plans better than the head coach. It might make perfect sense that he pressured him to sign the medical opening up the scholly because he had someone to he wanted to bring in."
How come the same logic doesn't apply the other way around? Maybe the med staff at OSU determined that Dean could play, but just not be as good a player at OSU as they hoped, so they go after Arnette? Like you said, no one knows their roster like the head coach, so maybe Urban determined that Arnette would be better than Dean post-injury and alowed himself to go after Arnette?
And maybe the Michigan med staff determined that Pipkins would never see the field at Michigan again? That all of his knee and concussion issues made it so he would never see the field at Michigan his senior year so they told him to medical.
"Keep in mind Dean was like the 2nd commit in that class and one of the highest rated"
And Pipkins was a 5 star recruit who played in all 18 games before his first injury problems. It cuts both ways, so I don't see your point.
"It might make perfect sense that he pressured him to sign the medical opening up the scholly because he had someone to he wnated to bring in."
Right, but if you look at the TIMELINE of events, which you've been screaming about so much, you'd see that Pipkins was asked to medical for the past 2 months, according to him. All of the transfers Michigan has brought are currently on the roster, the roster that is at 85 scholarship players with Pipkins. All of the transfers were announced prior to 2 months ago as well. If we were looking for another transfer, why hasn't one been brought in yet? Why didn't we take Jhonny Williams, an ND transfer DL transfer who we told two days ago we have no room for (link).
"the timeline and details of the Dean situation absolutely do NOT lend themselves to pushing a guy out for a scholly."
If you operate under your assumptions, sure they don't. But if you give as little benfit of the doubt to Harbaugh as you do to Meyer, you'll see that it can line up:
Potential timeline
- Dean gets to OSU in January
- Coaching staff sees that after his injuries, he is not going to be the same player hat they recruited, start process of pushing him out
- They recruit potential replacements before signing day
- They sign Arnette on signing day
- Now that they have a player the feel will be better than Dean, they apply even more pressure and end up forcing him out
I don't understand why that timeline isn't possible, but it's all but a forgone conclusion to you that Harbaugh pushed Pipkins out because he wnated to take another transfer, one that has not happened I might add.
For your theory about Harbaugh to be right, another transfer has to be added before the season starts, or else you're wrong.
I also might add the biggest differences between Dean and Pipkins. Which are that OSU was oversigned when Dean was pushed out but Michigan isn't with Pipkins. And two that there is no neutral doctor saying that Pipkins should be healthy enough to play, while James Andrews said that about Dean.
but I think you are assuming I was blasting Harbaugh.
My point and I don't believe I ever said anything about Harbaughs truthfullness or ethics in my post. I did have that hypothetical where he might have pressured him that you copied above, but that was in response to the it doesnt make sense because we don't need to drop a scholly to get under numbers response. I did not opine as to whether I think he did it or whether I thought it was right or wrong in that post.
I was only pointing out the hypocrisy of the posters rationalizing this when their side was accused of doing something they blasted the other side for doing. That was the entire meaning behind my post. Not, Harbaugh is obviously lying or Michigan is shady or anything else.
In either case (OSU or here) I don't think anyone knows the entire story and never will. HIPPA laws and all.........My point in bringing up Dean (because it seemed like a decent comparison) was that there was a bunch of bile spewed about Meyer being scummy and I don't think his case is an example of his purported failings at all.
You mention the biggest difference being how OSU was oversigned, etc.....I think I address that in some other posts pretty well as to why that has nothing to do with oversigning.
As for the neutral Dr. I grant you that. and Dr. Andrews is the pre-eminent Dr. for knees. But, I'd be curious to know if just because he had a different opinion if that would cause the first Dr. to change his mind. I'm not sure that it would. I know OSU's Dr. isn't Andrews but he's pretty renowned as well. People get second opinions all the time and something tells me that when that happens the first Dr. doesn't just change his mind. Maybe sometimes but I doubt most of the time. And this last paragraph is pure speculation on my part as I have no first hand experience.
"I did have that hypothetical where he might have pressured him that you copied above, but that was in response to the it doesnt make sense because we don't need to drop a scholly to get under numbers response."
I mean I get that. But the reason people are upset about this entire Pipkins is because they think it's Harbaugh trying to drop a scholly to get under numbers. And using basic logic, that argument doesn't hold.
Sure your argument that maybe he was trying to force him out for another player could be true. But there's no proof of that, and operating under that assumption is operating under the assumption of guilty until proven innocent. If that's your best argument, there's no reason to bring it up.
It's like if a man was accused of a crime in court. If 4 different people/facts all helped prove the man's innocence and nothing there proved his guilt, the normal response would be that he's probably innocent. Not definitely, but probably, so we'll treat him as innocent. Your response is akin to the prosecutor then saying "yeah but maybe all 4 people are also in on it to so they're just lying to protect him" when there's no evidence of that. I mean is that possible? Sure, but it makes no sense to bring up and is a crappy pillar to an argument.
"I was only pointing out the hypocrisy of the posters rationalizing this when their side was accused of doing something they blasted the other side for doing."
Once again, why you are trying to prove that Michigan fans are biased towards Michigan is beyond me. Next you might want to try and prove water is wet.
"I think I address that in some other posts pretty well as to why that has nothing to do with oversigning."
I have not seen anything of this effect in your posts. Can you show me where so I can read it for myself?
"And this last paragraph is pure speculation on my part as I have no first hand experience."
You admit that last paragraph is all speculation. So how is what you're doing any diferent than all the rationalizing you're criticizing Michigan fans of?
I was not bringing up a hypothetical to try and show that he is guilty despite scholly numbers not being a factor (as far as we know at least). They hypothetical was to show that the numbers picture as we see it may not be the factor we think it is. I am not saying he is guilty of anything let alone because it is possible my hypothetical is possible.
I really didnt opine at all as to whether or not I think he is doing something shady.
I'm not trying to prove UM fans are biased toward UM. That's like proving water is wet. Just as an outsider who visits this site, the comments are pretty damn funny. One guy actually said (and I'm paraphrasing but context is correct) I don't believe Harbaugh has ever done anything shady this must be on the kid. Maybe that is sarcasm and I missed it but the posts I was making fun of are the ones along the same lines but serious.
And yes, if you go to any other team site, including 11W, you'll find the same amount of overly biased fans. Again, just as an outsider seeing the reactions to other teams and now this it is pretty funny.
As for the Dean post you haven't seen. It's in this thread. more than once.
I admit the last post is speculation but I admit it when I am doing it. And again it was about whether the outside opinion of a Dr would cause another groups Dr's to change their mind. I don't believe it would in most cases.
It's simple. They didn't give a scholly to Dean. They then used that scholly for someone else (who will likely have it for the next four years, instead of Dean).
For Pipkins, there is (right now) no "someone else." He also only had only one year left.
I'm not even asserting what Meyer or Harbaugh did was wrong. I'm just point out the difference.
Dean was enrolled and attending classes. Who paid for that then?
Of course, it was covered by OSU... the whole point is that fact that if injury was such an issue for Meyer.... Why still offer since he got injuried HIS SENIOR YEAR IN HS! If medical was such a concern, why not address before he EE?
For example, JT Barrett tore his knee up in his 2nd (I think) game during his SENIOR SEASON IN HS. OSU stuck with him. I'd say that worked out pretty well. And I'm pretty sure he isn't the only one on OSU's roster like that.
Secondly, and I could be wrong here, but I don't think that the OSU (or any school) med staff gets to check players until they are enrolled and part of the school. So I don't believe that addressing it earlier would have been an option.
...or go on medical scholarship. Either way, that freed up his scholarship for the 2015 class (and beyond).
What is so hard about this? Are you saying the scholarship Dean would have had is left unused by the Buckeyes for the 4 years he would have been there? Getting rid of Dean allowed that scholarship to be used on another player.
Again, Meyer certainly may have cut him b/c Meyer believes, medically, it's the right thing to do. But there is no doubt they had a use for his scholarship. We don't know that for Pipkins.
Didn't Dean commit to play for Meyer though? That's where the difference lies IMO. Pipkins committed to play for Hoke, not Harbaugh. Harbaugh isn't forcing out a guy (if that's really what this is) that he made a promise to.
We all know coaches like to get their guys in but pressuring/pushing out a guy who signed to play with a SCHOOL shouldn't be ok just because the coach doing it isn't the one who signed him.
Edit: I can now see UV and DV's. Kind of cool. I think my DV's are coming from the fact you guys think I'm saying Harbaugh pushed Pipkins out. Not the case at all.
I was saying that it shouldn't be ok (IF IT HAPPENS) just because the coach doing it didn't recruit the guy. That is in direct response the post above saying he thinks it matters that Harbaugh didn't recruit Pipkins but Hoke did. I was asking or pointing out that that shouldn't matter.
Well if it's the same medical staff that was working last year, we can assume they are honest in their assessments especially after how they stood up to David Brandon after the Shane Morris fiasco. They wouldn't budge when pressured to cover up the consussion.
I'm on their side. If they said he can't go or shouldn't play, then we shouldn't doubt them based on the evidence they have given us last year.
I remember Brian speculating on WTKA and in print that Brandon was trying to tamper with the medical staff findings. He launched a FOIA request to try and find out. Never heard what Brian found after his further investigation. Are you saying this was a fact or are you continuing the speculation? It matters since that should have been a firing offense.
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But I can't say I didn't see this coming from a 100 miles away...
And if you take off the maize and blue rose colored glasses, you know you did too.
We try to put Harbaugh on a pedestal, and rightfully so, he's our coach...but really, he's not much different than Saban or Meyer and we have to accept that if we want to compete with Saban and Meyer.
Again, I'm not saying there isn't another side, but we can't blindly take the moral high ground like we away did before. We can't act like what other schools are doing may not happen or be happening at Michigan, too. I hope to God not, because I like playing the "above the b/s, too good for you" role we've gotten to play at Michigan.
But let's be real, Harbaugh has a guy who just got behind a wheel with a BAC 2 times the legal limit still with the program in some capacity - even with rules or stipulations that may make us feel better.
There's another side to this story, but the fact is, Pipkins is likely going to play again.
It may not be 100% SEC, or even close, but it ain't all high ground and roses either. Likely lies somewhere in the middle.
Whether this is true or not, I for one, am going to stop with all the Meyer/Saban are the devil/cheater/Saban St. Jude/cut throat/anything to win type stuff...because, glass houses. And I can't be 100% positive we're not close to "that" than we are the Michigan we all claim to be.
I guess all I'm saying is...be consistent. If you would've DESTROYED Saban or Meyer for this exact same thing, maybe just keep quiet on this one. Not saying we need to destroy Harbaugh, but we shouldn't Eleven Warriors blind defend our leader as if he belongs in a place next to MLK and Ghandi.
Great take. I place extreme value on doing things the right way and hope our athletic department does as well. Hopefully this serves as a PR slap on the wrist to check ourselves a bit.
...wanted to go back and edit, but oh well.
True or not true, stories and accusations like this are now going to pop up. It's just the world we chose to live in. The DUI, Medicals, finding recruiting loopholes, etc. - those types of stories are coming to Michigan just like they came to Columbus, Tuscoloosa, LA, etc.
...and we have to accept that because we wanted to compete with Saban and Meyer. (And Mora, and Miles, and every other ELITE coach or program in the past 10 years)
...I hope to God not, because I like playing the "above the b/s, too good for you" role we've gotten to play at Michigan. Years ago if this comes out, we laugh it off because there's 100% no chance. Now? Ehhhh, get back to me.
...even with rules or stipulations that may make us feel better. Kind of SEC if you ask me. Kind of the thing that we'd rip the Gators or Tigers for...
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I'll also say this. There ARE cases where a players can be offered a medical and told he cannot play at his University and then go on and play elsehwere.
John Brown - this kid was at Va Tech I believe (basketball), they basically made him retire and for good reason if you know the story.
He transferred to High Point University and played.
I know this story closely because we (at my former school) had to decided as a senior staff and MBB program if we'd recruit the kid. He was a very solid player, but we just didn't think the risk was worth it. We chose not to allow our staff to recruit or offer him a scholarship. But he did play elsewhere.
I could recollect couple of Big Ten football and basketball players who got a medical but went down to the MAC and ended up playing... It is the liability concerns I guess but it has happened because the school took the advisement of the medical staff...
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