Make it make sense: JJ criticized for “not playing in a pro-style offense”
Here’s the full quote, (Athletic for the full article) then my questions:
McCarthy was still viewed as the biggest projection of the group. Michigan’s system didn’t have many pro-style attributes, and McCarthy wasn’t asked to open it up and win the game through the air. Now, he’ll go from sprinkling in the occasional NFL throw to doing it on a down-by-down basis.
Forgive my ignorance but I feel like UM ran/runs one of the most pro-style offenses in CFB? UM assuredly ran the ball a lot more than most NFL teams, but that doesn’t make ours a college offense? Does it?
FWIW they do have JJ ranked 2nd in their projected success rankings so maybe this is making a mountain out of a mole hill, but the analysis that goes “yeah he has all the tools and he’s tough as nails and only wins and is a spectacular leader who everyone loves BUT did he throw enough in college?” just rubs me the wrong way. Bummed the Lions have to play him twice a year but excited to see him ball out and prove all these guys wrong
Some of the Athletic's pro coverage is bad. They had a draft recap which somehow missed Sam LaPorta entirely when grading the Lions 2023 draft- like literally didn't even mention him until people bitched and they revised it.
I don't know if it's due to budget cuts or what, but it feels like that site in general is not what it once was.
Feels like; is. Began as an outlet for long-form, adventurous, status quo-challenging sports journalism of the sort that had all but disappeared. Saved financially by the Times, which maintains it as a separate sports section. A little bit the path of ESPN, for those who remember further back. . .
P.S. Agree with the OP; that's pretty dumb. And I do think that JJ found the right NFL home (so does he). My own questions about him will, despite this, remain as they did for watchers here: Can he--will he know when to--run? My money is that he can. Will he be a little fragile? Remains to be seen.
The same Athletic that was warming up the pitchforks and lighting the torches on every aspect of the Stalions story?
There are different offenses in the pros. The league is shifting back toward run-first, and maybe some analysts aren't tracking with the teams that are leading that wave.
This is my thinking. The author of the article probably thinks the NFL is pass-happy right now, and they are to some extent, but that doesn't make Michigan a non-pro offense. The author clearly doesn't know what pro-style means or used the wrong language.
This was my first thought. The author just figures "NFL = pass first" and Michigan was run-first. What the author missed / is missing is when Michigan needed JJ to pass, he was money a great deal of the time.
So that drive near the end of regulation against Bama didn't happen?
What drive against Bama? Did we play them last season?
As much as I love the DAWG, grit and determination on that drive I don't think it qualifies as NFL playbook material.
When I watch that drive, the thing that impresses me is the pre-snap movement, flawlessly executed and moving into the play like a well oiled machine. Very professional looking!
Honestly I don't know WTF "pro-style" even means anymore.
When Harbaugh went to the NFL from Stanford he ran "college" stuff. When he came back to Michigan he ran "pro" stuff. It was the same stuff.
Then Harbaugh ran spread with Shea to go to "college" stuff. Then back to under center for "pro" stuff (the consensus description of what JJ did at Michigan).
Meanwhile his brother is running Lamar in Baltimore, Mahomes is doing whatever the eff he wants in KC, and Brady ran a "pro" spread for two decades, not under center.
As long as your playbook is more than three plays, it's a real offense afaik.
I think pro-style must be a reference to NIL.
NIL is the furthest thing from life as a professional as there is.
People in business actually expect a business return on their investment - primarily through an increase in revenue - market share - etc. If Patrick Mahomes wasn’t having a positive impact on State Farm’s business - he wouldn’t be their spokesman.
I think it's more about blocking schemes, but idk not an expert at all. I think the nfl just does like a lot more guard pulling and maneuvers and stuff on the offensive line, while college teams tend to keep it simpler.
Here's another one: JJ McCarthy is inexperienced with 28 starts the last two years (including a 4-1 record in two B1GCGs and three CFP games), while Drake Maye is NFL-ready with 26 starts (including one ACCCG loss).
I don't think I've seen anyone say Drake Maye is pro ready...
The Athletic's preview (same publication in the OP) said that he projects as a day-one starter.
You haven't looked... Maye has been the darling behind Williams and Daniels since last year!
I don't get it, myself, but the world says he'll be a dynamic player.
Can we retire the phrase: Make it Make sense? That along with “Detroit, Whatup Doe?”…
Sorry… To use another obnoxious phrase: “tell me you haven’t watched Michigan football without telling me you haven’t watched Michigan football”.🤦🏻♂️
The last thing is basically what Kevin O'Connell said about picking JJ:
"You really go back through and center your focus on those weighty downs," O'Connell said. "You know, those third downs where you see him in third-and-[long], at a pretty strong clip, move the football team and generate new downs and get them down in the red zone and make some big time throws to put the ball in the end zone.
"In big, big moments in games when they needed him to find a way, other ways, just to make a throw, other ways to extend a play, he made a lot of those plays."
I mean i guess it's strange that it isn't obvious to everyone. Yes he didn't throw often, but his third down rating is excellent, and he was on national TV making great throws on huge game deciding plays.
GET OFF MY LAWN!
I know I emulate that saying!!
Does it really matter now? JJ is in a great spot for future success, so all is well!
IMO, there is a reasonable question for JJ: “what does a pass-first offense with JJ McCarthy look like?” We don’t know. Nobody does. We don’t know what a Harbaugh pass-first offense looks like. It never happened at Michigan.
It didn’t even happen with Andrew Luck in 2010 (check the rushing stats from that year!). It KINDA happened with Josh Johnson in 2007…but Johnson was also running it all over the field too; Harbaugh’s offense that year was “our QB can out-athlete you.”
So yeah, if you’re an NFL team and you’re looking to play a passing spread, then JJ is the QB with the most projection. But saying that the offense didn’t have pro-style elements, that’s just a lie.
Or it’s trolling. Remember that trolling Michigan fans is a tried-and-true business model when you’re looking for clicks.
Yeah, NFL style offense is a term that changes frequently. If they are questioning his ability to throw the deep ball accurately, repeatedly, then I think that’s reasonable. Not because he can’t do it, but because we simply didn’t ask him to do it very often.
So is he the most NFL ready? Probably not. That award would probably go to Penix. Does that mean Penix will have a better career than JJ? Of course not. It will be fun to watch JJ get better and better.
Maybe they're stuck in the 1980s and think the West Coast offense still rules the NFL.
Their passing concepts were not super complicated. It doesn't mean JJ can't decipher layered routes, but it's a valid point.
Yeah, they rank him #2 and seem pretty complimentary. The positive part about him includes this:
McCarthy has been universally praised for his leadership and personality, so he should be in sync with O’Connell from the start. McCarthy has a strong arm and has displayed an it-factor on the field, notably in the Rose Bowl comeback against Alabama.
I think they like him well enough, and the (relative) lack of throws by McCarthy compared to everyone else leads some people to believe that's not "pro style" when it's more that the offense itself is quite pro-friendly but doesn't place a ton of responsibility on the QB every play.
That said, I did notice that for a lot of the other QBs the analysis of their flaws was more about the teams they were going to - Williams and Daniels barely got any "they could improve on X or have weakness Y" as much as "the Bears and Commanders are tire-fires and so these guys might have rough times of it". It's minor but McCarthy got more personal dings than the others in my reading.
It's just a made up term these days and people can choose to manipulate the definition to fit their argument.
The Draft program just highlighted a segment with the Vikings head coach - Kevin O’Connell.
I hope the Vikings GM didn’t see that segment and realize this Athletic writer seems to be a LOT smarter than O’Connell.
During the interview - O’Connell referenced JJ’s familiarity with an NFL offense and his efficiency on “possession / drive continuing plays” - like third and long.
Part of it is that Michigan coaches didn’t seem to fully trust McCarthy. The two biggest examples were the 2nd half against PSU and not going for it on 4th down, when success would’ve ended the game, against OSU.
The Penn St gameplan was much more about them not trusting Barnhart against Chop Robinson. Had nothing to do with JJ
Also JJ had a bum ankle that game. But most importantly, the coaches knew that PSU wasn't going to score with their mediocre offense against the best D in the country. The only way PSU wins that game is by getting points off of a turnover, so they weren't going to risk a strip-sack or JJ getting hit as he threw it leading to an INT.
IMO - Michigan’s coaches trusting JJ had nothing to do with it. The staff realized / emphasized two things. First - the offense’s efficiency relied on JJ being healthy - so, not as many designed runs as might have been possible. Second, when JJ did run - go down early - and don’t risk contact until absolutely necessary.
The other thing is - “points”. Get points when you can. In the OSU game - which I believe you’re referencing - the fourth down in the fourth quarter - less than two minutes remaining. IIRC - Michigan was ahead by three - if they went for it and were stopped - it becomes a field goal game. Instead, Michigan kicked the FG, made it a six point game - and forced the Bucks to score a TD with no timeouts and less than two minutes on the clock.
How badly was JJ Hurt when he played in 2nd half vs PSU? 🙄
JJ could hardly put weight on his one foot in the PSU game. He was handing off because he could not throw and plant his feet properly. He probably should not have played in the Maryland game
Wait until the Chargers find out who they hired as their head coach. Cheater and also has no idea how to run an NFL offense.
FUCKING MASTERCLASS WRITING!
I can’t help but applaud the insightfulness of (what I assume is a Buckeye fan) regarding Harbaugh’s knowledge of an NFL offense - or lack thereof. I’m drawn to Harbaugh’s first three seasons as San Francisco’s head coach - where the team played in NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl.
IIRC - one difference between Nick Saban and Jim Harbaugh - as NFL coaches - is this: Harbaugh had a winning record, Saban didn’t.
Are you referring to me or the writer of the article? If its me Im sorry I thought the
/s was painfully obvious.
The NFL knows he isnt a cheater and his offense will do just fine. Some shit ass writers though with only clickbait on their minds have a different story to tell.
Wouldn’t be a complete criticism without bringing up the PSU game where we ran it 32 straight plays. “Anyone could play QB in that system” nonsense.
Anyone who watched that game or had any idea of what was going on could have seen Michigan had a really big "sign" telling the whole world what they were doing. Here's what were running, you know the play, now stop it.
Its funny how when Wisconsin did it to us a few years back not one person was discounting what they did as a "Wisconsin" issue. Strange world we live in.
Do any of them realize that we played in fifteen games? That was one half of one game - 1/30 of our season.
It has to be because he didn't throw a ton, despite how complex the run game was (as well as the passing game). The league is so arm dependent now, there isn't enough "proof" for the uninitiated.
If they only read this blog, they'd know just how incredible he is because of how consistently he delivered in tough spots (long 3rd down conversions, 4th quarter drive in Rose Bowl) and when asked (early season games).
Pro-style really doesn't mean what it once did. 6 QBs and 3 WRs were taken in the top 12.
10 WRs and 7 CBs were picked before the 1st RB was taken which shows how much The League has changed. 4 RB's picked in the 1st 3 rounds (Blake 3rd at pick 83).
When Fouts of the high flying Chargers of the 70's/80's retired he was 2nd on the all-time list for passing yards only to Tarkenton - who started 68 more games than Fouts (4-5yrs). Tarkenton is now 14th and Fouts 20th. Marino retired as the all time yds leader and is now 8th.
So yeah, pro-style doesn't mean what it once did. But anyone who's watched JJ knows he can sling it and run when he needs to.
Its the same reason why people kept saying Beilein runs a 1-3-1 defense. Lazy journalism.