Bo’s Lasting Lessons
Am I the only one who has read this book? Today I’m reminded of a passage on page 53.
If he wanted to, Bump could have made life very difficult for me. Hell, he could have set me up for failure. His players loved him, really loved him—and remember, that first year I was coaching all his players. I was an outsider, they didn’t owe me anything, and it wasn’t like I was making life easy for them, either. Bump was a former Michigan All-American, and a whole lot nicer than I was! They could have complained to him—he was still working at the athletic office—and I bet some of them tried, but he would have none of it. He made it clear to everyone that he was on my side.
Bump showed me what he was made of a dozen times, never interfering, always supporting me, in public and in private. That was a great gift—one I remembered years later when it was my turn to pass the torch.
Any of that sound familiar?
Morgan Trent, the immature twit, failed to consider the collateral damage he would cause his coach (Lloyd that is) when he quoted him without permission. There’s no way Carr authorized Morgan to make that private conversation public. By the time he went back to Carr to tell him that the comments wouldn't make him look bad, it was too late. How's that prediction looking? Trent gets torched, yet again.
Well, now Carr is burning. It’s time for him to break radio silence.
+100 to you, sir.
And that is what I find most disturbing about the whole affair. I had a ton of respect for Lloyd but if this is all true or even some of it, then my opinion of the man will definetly shine less brightly.
Morgan on the other hand has shown himself to be nothing more than a punk.
keep their conversation confidential. I don't have a problem with Carr sharing with Trent information that was highly relevant to Trent's efforts to establish himself as an NFL player, given the fact that Carr recruited him and they had a good relationship. This assumes that Carr reasonably believed that Trent was trustworthy.
Never trust someone with two first names.
Ricky Bobby.
There is so much to gain from that book. I have read it cover to cover several times and have read other parts over and over. If you haven't read it, it is well worth it. So many good thoughts about life in general.
and I thumb through it for inspiration. It's great to hear/read Bo's thoughts, someone who meant so much to me as a kid. He never knew it, but he recruited me to Michigan and the ideal of being a 'Michigan Man'. It's refreshing to relive him and to take in his wisdom.
It's late, but why not beat a nearly dead horse some more? MCalibur, that is indeed a great find, and it's hard not to see some parallels.
Questions for the gallery, in case anyone is in the mood, with lots of assumptions:
* Suppose Trent really went to Carr and whined about his spot in the draft. Suppose Carr had a rock-solid source (way better than purple monkey dishwasher) who related what Rodriguez had told him. And, suppose that RichRod cut loose unfairly. What should Lloyd have done in that case? (Aside: I think Lloyd would have to assume that any miffed 22-year-old would be a loose cannon. That seems obvious to me.) With all those assumptions, the question becomes: "Do I publicly cross the head football coach even though I'm employed by the athletic department?" Of course it's not that simple and clear-cut. But, if I'm Lloyd I keep quiet with Morgan. I think it would be entirely fair, though, for Lloyd (when his past and present roles are considered) to air his concerns internally. (I'd have to think about how that would best be done.) Any thoughts on this?
* Suppose an NFL scout not particularly well-known to Rodriguez asked him about Trent's character? (It's important to assume that it's not someone he can trust.) I don't know how much chattering goes on in that world, but I'll bet news travels quickly. I think RichRod would have to assume that any negative remarks (justified or not) could go in interesting places. (Aside: I'm concerned that he's not sufficiently politically savvy for a bright-light job like UM.) Given that, does he say anything? I don't think that's an easy answer. In support of airing his opinion, he'll be asked about players in future years (at UM, Mississippi State, or, if things go really badly this year, maybe Marshall). What if he tries to hoodwink the scouts with tales of Trent's dedication, etc.? Perhaps they wouldn't take him seriously in the future, even when he's singing the praises of Craig Roh. Just tossing that out there...
* Suppose RichRod went to town trashing Trent. How much would that matter? That's a serious question for the experts here (i.e., not me). His combine information and on-field play were out there for all to see. He didn't have any public incidents of bad behavior. I realize that "character" matters to pro teams. I just wonder how much RichRod could submarine someone unfairly.
In case anyone is curious, I think Trent has behaved badly. He's a young person, though, so I'd be inclined to give him a break. I'd expect more from Lloyd and RichRod.
My copy of this book gets dropped off tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to reading it. My dad is actually in the U of M hospital right now and every day when I go to visit I get to pass the statue of Bo that they have in the CVC area. Could you imagine how things would be if Bo was still here and was the one backing RR?
He's like that family member (basically the head) that keeps all the relatives in check. Once that member passes, the jerks in the family really come out and cause a schism or at least unrest among family members.
this
It is especially good for Michigan fans to read, but there are so many gems that anyone could learn from. That man was one of the great ones, and we were all privelaged to have him as our coach. I felt like if Bo hadn't agreed to put some of this stuff on paper, we would have lost much more when he passed. His whole philosophy of life, buisness, and sports bleed from every page. I have read it twice so far, and this long offseason might bring me back for a third time. There are many paralells between when Bo took over and when RR took over. The big difference is that Bo had a much similar schematic philosophy to his previous regime. Go Blue! If you don't own this book and you're a Michigan fan you need to go get it today.
I've said since he started that Morgan Trent was lazy. Most, even many people on here, said he was good that I was crazy. Now he's being a selfish bitch. Not proud to say he went to Michigan.
Sure, maybe he hasn't been publically supportive as much as we all would like - but Lloyd Carr hates speaking to the press, precisely because he knows how likely they are to twist his words like this hack book writer has done. In Lloyd's view - better to say nothing at all, than to have them twist what you say.
Lloyd has stepped back, and kept quiet, and according to both im and Rich has provided support and advice when asked.
I suppose throwing someone a rope as they're drowning while jackals tie weights to their ankles could be classified as interfering; I guess.
I don't take issue with his desire to stay out of the public forum. But there have been multiple former players speak out against Rodriguez; we can't have that and he could quash that instantly. It would have been simple enough for him to be present at the Victor's Rally, even if he didn't speak. All these "reliable sources" that keep getting referenced in the media could be tapped on the shoulder. That's what I'm getting at.
I don't presume to know why these things have not happened, if indeed they haven't. But things keep happening. It's been two and a half years and we keep having all this crap happen. It needs to stop and Carr could facilitate that all while keeping it private. That's where I'm at.
He's been a bit passive for my taste, but I'll grant you that it's a matter of taste. It's his right. Fine. I'm just disappointed.
I was wondering there are any similarities in the transition from Earle Bruce to John Cooper after Woody passing ...
Did former players start to speak out more? Did factions form that tore at the program?
Think about the parallels: Bruce (a Woody deciple) takes over the reigns goes 11-1, and then does a solid (9-3) job for ten years. He is fired just after Woody dies. (A noteable difference is both Woody and Bruce were fired.)
Cooper (the outsider) comes in and starts 4-6, but averages 8-4 for several seasons before kicking into high gear. He never outwardly pays lip service to The Game though, and looses it so many times that ultimately (after 12 seasons) he is fired.
The they bring in Tressel (who passed through the OSU coaching system), he publically embraces The Game, and wins it the first year despite a 7-5 record.
I'll maintain that in the vacuum of Bo passing, we are all trying to find ourselves, and this funk is going to last a long time.
Rich may start winning. He may even win big. But until he drops this "the monkey said the past doesn't matter" meme, and embrace the past ... well, he always may be an outsider regardless ...
I personally think if I am Rich, and I am betting my job on this season, I come out and say "this is the year we beat Ohio State". Sure you still focus the team on on game at a time, etc. You want people "All In" - spelling out that your goal is beating OSU is the way to do it at Michigan.
(I am surprised David Brandon hasn't set this in stone yet.)
I am guessing Rich is waiting until he feels comfortable he has a reasonable shot, but the messages he's transmitted through his "when we're good enough to win", or "at least two guys we can win with", or not publically setting goals, is we are not good enough. And then it becomes accpetable to give up in the face of adversity about half way through the season. He needs to publically set The Goal - sleigh the giant - and then motivate to it.
Hey, if he looses, but we put up a competitive fight (like 2006), then OK. But three straight years of going into the game with a sick uneasy "let me sell my tickets to a Buckeye" feeling cannot be allowed to continue.
fully what was said on page 53.
"It's one thing, when you start in a new position, to throw a bucket of cold water on your people to let them know things are going to be different around here from now on. That's just smart.
But it is something completely different to do the same thing to the institution you're taking over. That's just stupid.
Let me explain. One of the most common mistakes new leaders make - and I just can't, for the life of me understand this one - is to ignore the history of the organization they just took orver, or even to disrespect it. That, to me, is the mark of a weak leader - and one who's probably not going to last very long.
Let me be as clear as I can be about this: When you become the leader, do not start your reign by dismantling or ignoring the contributions of those who came before. The history or your organization is one of your greatest strengths, and if you're new to the organization, it's your job to learn it, to respect it and to teach it to the people coming up in your company.
...
When I arrived in Ann Arbor, I was an outsider - born and raised in Ohio, played at Miami, coached at Ohio State for Woody Hayes, for crying out loud - but I already knew a lot about Michigan. And after I got here, I made it my business to learn more, and fast. "
"I got to know the tradition that is Michigan. I studied it, I followed it, I got to know the people who created it, young and old. I don't think you can operate any other way. And I taught Michigan's tradition to my players, and to my coaches. Yost's Point-A-Minute teams, Chrisler's Mad Magicians, the great players - Willie Heston, Bennie Oosterbaan, Bob Chappuis - the great stadium, the fight song, the rich history. I amde it a point to learn about all of it, and pass it on.
Remember this: WHEN YOU ARE THE LEADER, YOU ARE THE ORGANIZATION. You are the company, the school, the team. You are it. Now if you want to act like some kind of jerk where guys who worked for the program and led the program and sacrificed for the program are not welcome to come back, will, you're not going to have much of a program. And you certainly won't have a family. But if you respect your history, you'll get a lot more in return." (emphasis in original)
So what do we have? Have there been any reports that RR has embraced the past? Has there been any evidence that RR has done anything but criticize the (immediate) past? Carr has always said he will stay away (same as Bo) unless he is asked. Is there any evidence that RR has asked Carr to do anything, including speaking out? Or do you think it possible that RR may have burned some bridges and doesn't feel he can ask anymore?
You want to use Bo's words to criticize Carr, but the words can be used to criticize RR also.
I would suggest that many of RR's problems would not be a problem if he had read, and believed, the words that surround the passage you post. You cater to the Carr haters
This is not an anti RR post, or pro Carr post. It is simply meant to point out that you have used a passage to foster hate for Carr, without considering the entire point that Bo was trying to make.
I have absolutely no problem with Lloyd Carr whatsoever. Read some of my other posts over the course of the last couple of days. I do wish that he'd be more vocal, especially now, but that's my problem.
There's no question that Rodriguez needed to grow into the role, I'd wager that he would admit as much. But he was suffocated since before he even set foot on campus. Bo never had to deal with that, it's a different era. That must be recognized.
We're reading thoughts that Bo had four decades worth of time to reflect on and hone. The book is a collection of 40 years worth of experience and its impossible that Bo stepped onto campus knowing everything he put into that book. He probably knew more than Rodriguez did when he started but he learned much more about Michigan after he started. Passing it on takes time...did Bo pass it on to the 50 players that quit on him? No, he didn't.
I'm not going to propose to know what Carr is thinking or how Rodriguez feels or whatever. I certainly don't pretend to posses clairvoyance on Bo's mind just because I read some goddamned book either. You seem to presume that you have full clarity on Bo; I doubt that is possible.
My opinion doesn't matter. My point is that Carr could snap his fingers and lift the cloud and Rodriguez would still be on the hot seat; except that he'd at least be able to concentrate on things that actually matter.
I agree with a lot of what you said and you've shed some light on things that I have been wondering for a while. When I see Rich in press confrences I don't see a leader. He is far from direct and doesn't inspire with his words. Lloyd defended his players and didn't take crap from the press even if the team wasn't performing, Bo was a fiery pistol who you couldn't help but respect. I don't see any of those attributes in Rich.
I believe that Coach Rich is an amazing coach but I don't believe he is a great, not even good, leader. As an outsider I obviously don't see the everyday going ons of the program but if you look at the top coaches in college now you can see their leadership qualities and how they demand respect. Saban, a cheat he may be, is someone who is greatly respected by the media and doesn't back down from anyone or anything. Les is a lot like Bo, he does things his way and if you don't like it then you can go fuck yourself. Brian Kelly is probably my favorite of the modern coaches who exudes confidence and if I had a son would love to have him play for him.
Through all the trouble and the people who seem to want to sabotage him I haven't seen coach do anything to say I am the man here and I am going to run this program and we WILL be great. It's always the same stuff, "I'll have to watch the film". I guess the counterweight to Rich's wimpyness is Barwis. Coach has done some amazing things for the University and has started some really cool things like the BBQ and Night of Champions to name a few and I really hope he succeeds but I just don't see him as a leader.
The thought I will end with is the one I had when Rich was hired. When I first heard the thing that popped into my mind was his last game as the coach of WV. I remember watching that game and as the camera panned over onto him I was astonished by what I saw. He had a look of fear and disbelief on his face. A leader doesn't fold under pressure and he doesn't let his inner feelings of fright show because it will kill moral. I don't believe he is a leader and if he doesn't develop into one then I don't think he will be here much longer.
Man, people said the same stuff about Dick Vermiel and Tony Dungy. For that matter, I would classify Pete Carrol as an alpha either. It may very well be that Rodriguez is not an alpha type. That is of zero consequence if he wins. The fact of the matter is that our team has not been positioned to win consistently the last couple of years for some reasons attributable to Rodriguez and for some reasons not attributable to him. But I don't buy that people who have never spoken directly to Rich Rodriguez have any knowledge whatsoever regarding his ability to lead men. Preposterous.
You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine but I really feel like he is incapable of handling the media.
You claim to be neutral but you clearly aren't. By citing those passages from page 50 and 54 you are insinuating that RR has done the things that Bo said not to do. What has RR actually done to alienate people or to toss out traditions. Because WR's don't wear #1 anymore and there are several "apostles" instead of 2 captains, does that mean RR is throwing away the past and alienating the people who came before him?
I've been to most of the games and the spring games. Jerry Hanlon is around the team a lot.There's always former wolverines hanging out and supporting the program. I've heard RR say on several occasions that he wants alumni to feel welcome. The only alumni that I have heard criticize RR are guys who played for Lloyd. I don't know what Lloyd has done behind closed doors so I'm not placing any blame. I just don't see where RR is getting a bad rap in all of this. RR's only crime is going 8-16.
These things can go both ways, no?
One of the best post's i have read in my short tenure here. Long live Bo!! Go Blue!!
it sounds like a great book and coming from Bo, how could it be anything else. I think I will have to get this book.
Lloyd should see that passage and be asked, is that how you are conducting yourself? Dave Brandon should see it and be asked, are you holding Lloyd to that standard? To be fair someone should show RR the passage from page 54 and ask him the same types of questions.
There is so much that Lloyd has or hasn't done that I know nothing about and the same is true for RR. I can't say who is at fault for what because I don't know the private business of these two guys. But I do believe that if Lloyd is being honest with himself, he has to admit that he hasn't given RR the same support that Bump Elliot gave Bo.
I'm sure both Rodriguez and Carr have made mistakes and had shortcomings. However, Rodriguez is doing everything he can to move this program forward and see it be successful. I'm not so sure the same is true of Lloyd Carr.
I'm shocked that Morgan Trent was even drafted.