OT- Game of Thrones EPISODE 9: The Watchers on the Wall
I disagree with the ratings bit.
1. Jaime's rape of Cersei in the show definitely does not help ratings one iota. In fact, it likely hurt them.
2. HBO has given Weiss and Benioff complete artistic freedom, from what I've gleaned from every interview I've seen.
3. It is the characters and the politics - not big action scenes - that have built the ratings over the course of 4 years. Just as in the books, many battles are only referred to and not shown. This season's example: The sacking of Mereen.
I'm OK with that. Perhaps "ratings" wasn't the best word because I honestly don't ever look up any ratings on the show, I just know that the show is popular.
However,
1. I think the rape shows HBOs willingness to push the limits and boundaries, therefore keeping viewers glued because they aren't sure what they will do next. Although disgusting, rape catches people's attention. I cannot offer another reason that they would deviate and include this in the TV show.
2. Agree, and in some cases I'm glad they do.
3. I wasn't trying to say that the action scenes were what drew people to the show. I was only trying to offer the difference that two viewpoints will take to express the same story, and in doing so I used two different directors based off of their history of films. Perhaps I used a poor example. I do agree that the characters and politics are a huge draw, but a small part of it is also HBOs willingness to push the limits and display graphic and grotesque scenes. The show would lose a lot of appeal if it were on, say, ABC.
"[Jon Snow's] show scenes were always kind of dull and lacked something."
That's because the actor they cast is terrible. I'm sorry, but Kit Harington as Jon is like Keanu Reeves as Aragorn.
Terrible is extreme, though I'd admit that compraed to the other amazing casting selections, Kit Harrington may not quite have the big-time chops.
I actually think this is a bit of a result of the aging-up of the characters for the TV series. What is Jon Snow in the books? 13? His emotions/reactions/attitudes would fit right in for a 13-year old. Even a 16-18 year old.
However, as a 20-something, his character comes off as too immature, too naive (the sex-talk with Sam was cringeworthy) and too moody.
I wonder if they'd reconsider the TV-approach to his character if Benioff and Weiss did it all over again. Perhaps exchange that moodiness with some of Dany's rebelliousness/arrogance? I don't know, it's a tough call. I do, however, find myself liking Jon Snow more now that we've moved on from that moody stuff.
I don't think terrible is extreme. Jon is arguably the main character of the whole drama, and his character is supposed to be mysterious and complex, young but betraying secret wisdoms and demons. He is dark and brooding, yet perceptive, compassionate, and quick-witted.
I get tired of looking into Kit Harington's vapid eyes where there should be untold intrigue.
Terrible.
I would usually resere a word like "terrible" for the actor of Carl from the Walking Dead. Though I don't know if this is worth discussing since you seem rather set in your personal view.
I actually find Emilia Clarke to have the most flat acting performances in Game of Thrones.
Jon Snow as a character is supposd to be aloof and kind of a dick though.
I mean under the A Song of Ice and Fire Wiki his character traits are listed as "bitter," "solemn," "with a desire to prove himself," and "compassionate towards those he views as his fellow outcasts."
He isn't a very meaty character that would allow for an actor to display his acting chops, like Tyrion, Oberyn, or Cersei.
He might be the most important character in the series but that doesn't mean he's the most compelling. To this point they've basically stayed true to the fact that Jon is kind of a mopey teenager with a lot of angst. Last night's scene was really the beginning of his transformation into a man and a leader.
I'm not saying Kit Harrington is great or anything, but he hasn't been given a lot to work with at this point.
It's sort of the same deal with Sansa and the actress who plays her. To this point Sansa has basically been a one note character, and it wasn't until episode 8 of this season that she was really given an opportunity to challenge herself and she crushed it.
is all about "kill the boy and let the man be born" within him. Rob and him were of the same age, but jon always had a complex from living under his shadow. I think he grows into a more robust character as the series progresses.
What is Jon Snow in the books? 13?
14 in the beginning, 15 by this point. Though GRRM has said he wished some of his younger characters were a little older and we're coming up on the point where he intended to have a five-year gap in the story to age his child characters up some, but decided he didn't think it was plausible that everything would just freeze for five years.
I think jon Snow will end up being the single most important character in the show.
There are way too many Chekov's Gun type of things surrounding him.
First of all there is the whole mysterious promise that Ned made to his sister, Lyanna, who had supposedly been kidnapped by Rhaegar Targaryen, which was the event that sparked Robert's Rebellion and led to basically everything that has happened since then.
When Ned finally reaches her she is on her death bed, though we don't know why she's dying, the speculation is that she had just given birth to Jon Snow, who is the bastard child of her and Rhaegar Targaryen. She makes Ned promise her something, though we don't know what that promise is, but Ned keeps it.
The promise could be to raise Jon Snow as his own son and to claim him as his bastard.
Why would Ned have to do this? Because had Robert and most of the rest of the realm were trying to wipe out all of the Targaryen children. People knowing Jon Snow was Rhaegar's son would have essentially been a death sentence for him, so Ned's love for Lyanna made him lie to everyone and claim he fathered a bastard child while at war in order to keep his promise to her.
It's mentioned a million times how totally outside of Ned's character it was to have cheated on his wife and fathered a bastard child. Even more strange is that Ned doesn't raise or treat him like a bastard, but rather, his own son.
Then there is the whole sub-plot with Robert having no true-born heirs, and they make this discovery based upon the hair color of the children. There is a quote but I forget it, it is essentially, "when coal meets gold, the coal wins out every time," referring to the black hair of the Baratheons and the golden hair of the Lannisters. The Starks all have dark hair, and the Targaryens all have platinum blonde hair.
There is also the entire thing with Maester Aemon being Aemon Targaryen. Aemon of course was offered the crown and passed it up to his younger brother, and took the black, joining the night's watch after their father, the previous king, died.
Also, the name of the books is "A Song of Ice and Fire." Lyanna, the she wolf from the north is ice, and Rhaegar, the blood of the dragon from the south, is fire.
QED, Jon, being the result of the union of those two, is the song of ice and fire.
Boom! Nailed it.
Or maybe I'm wrong about all of this and Jon and Dany are going to eventually hook up, meaning them joining forces creates ice and fire?
P.S. I am going to be so totally wrong when Jon gets eaten by a mammoth or something.
I agree with all of that. I would add that I think there will be more to the title "A Song of Ice and Fire" than just Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Someone that pays better attention and has a better understanding of the books than I do will probably answer your question better, but for the most part season 4 is the last half of book 3. There are some things that season 4 has introduced that I'm not sure has been covered up to my reading (I'm almost done with book 4), but I'm not sure if that's the show going its separate way or if it's in book 5.
For the most part:
Season 1= book 1. Season 2= book 2. Season 3= first half of book 3. And season 4= last half of book 3.
"There are some things that season 4 has introduced that I'm not sure has been covered up to my reading"
That's because these things are all specific to the show and don't occur in the books.
Yes and no.
The stuff in the show with Brienne and Pod actually happen in book 4.
Plus all sorts of Theon stuff - some of which are just the show depicting what was happening during book 3 timeline-wise but that you don't read about til book 5, and some are actual events that take place during book 5.
Mostly second half of Storm of Swords.
Lots of good interviews with director Neil Marshall out there. Here's Rolling Stone's:
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/game-of-thrones-neil-marshall-o…
How did you do that big shot of Castle Black?
When I walked onto the Castle Black set for the very first time, I noticed that it's a 360-degree set. You walk into that courtyard and it's standing all around you. Immediately, I thought the best place to have it all to take place was the catwalks and steps — it's more interesting than just two guys in a flat courtyard. At some point the idea came to me of doing a 360-degree shot of the battle going on all around.Slowly but surely, the idea to motivate the shot came to me. What was the point of the shot, other than to show off? I realized you had five major characters involved, and at this point you needed to know where they were and how they were all interrelating with each other. That gave birth to that shot in thematic terms. It very literally put you in the middle of it.
In practical terms, it was the first shot we did for that night. We set it up for about an hour, positioning everybody, practicing the camera moves. We got it on the seventh take. When I said we had it, we all gave each other a big round of applause. [Laughs]
No CGI? That was actually one single take?
It was one take. It was all the work of the ADs — and the stunt guys, for keeping out of the way of the camera. The camera was on the end of a crane arm and swinging around at high speed. It doesn't necessarily look it from the camera's point of view, but if the camera had hit someone in the head, it could have killed them — it was moving that fast. That was one of the worries. But nobody got killed by the camera, so that's good.What about that scythe on the ice wall?
David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss, the showrunners and writers] came up with that idea. I don't know how, but it certainly was a fun idea. [Laughs] When I came in, I wanted to make it as logical as possible, to design it so it would look scary and practical. There was discussion early on as to whether we needed it, but myself, David, and Dan really fought for it. It was a really cool idea to end [both] the episode and the attack.