gbdub

February 18th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^

This is worth reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU_Judging_System

It's damn complicated, and it sounds like "subjectivity" can move the needle a few percent even after all the high/low dropping and averaging, but it's actually a lot closer to your last paragraph than you might think. If you can do a jump no one else can, you get a lot more points.

Some key things:

Everyone is required to do the same number of elements in each category (e.g. certain number of jumps, certain number of spins)

All elements and sequences have a predefined maximum score based on difficulty

Certain errors (e.g. underrotation) have an associated predefined deduction

Many deductions are really subtle to the uninitiated (e.g. landing on wrong edge)

B-Nut-GoBlue

February 18th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^

This doesn't add much but I've found myself being disinterested in Ice Dancing the past couple of Olympics, yet I've always somewhat enjoyed Figure Skating.  It's that that way again this year.  I haven't read the article and I'm sure it doesn't make much sense but I do and have been wondering if there are others out there like me.  I'm no afficinado of Figure Skating, I watch it when the Olympics roll around, but I do enjoy it and I just haven't been able to say the same for Ice Dancing.  (I'll also say I didn't enjoy the Team Figure Skating either...I just don't get why that needs to exist, another conversation, though).

*Glad to see the good guys/gals win the event though!

BlueCube

February 18th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^

but if you wanted to attack any sport, it would have to be towards the top of the list. I don't mean to minimize the training and talent of the event. There is no comparison of the physical exertion between that and any skating activity.

The argument is terrible. Why should they have short track and long track speed skating? They both have their own type of style, skill and excitement.

Also look at all the new ski events. They are all judged on the style of jumps, how well they are done and difficulty. Therefore you can add diving also.

If you don't like it, there is an off button on your remote.

reshp1

February 18th, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^

There's a whole range of subjective vs objective judgement critiria, and another whole spectrum of athletic vs artistic. Ice dancing falls towards the subjective and artistic sides, but clearly isn't exclusively so. Debating what is and isn't a sport is kind of silly because there isn't some precisely defined point on each of those spectrums where sport becomes something else.

That said, my complaint isn't whether ice dancing or figure skating is a sport or not, but the disproportionate coverage of it compared to everything else. It seems like between the team competition, men's and women's, pairs, ice dancing, long program/short program, figure skating has taken up 25% or more of the prime time coverage, where awesome sports like ski jumping, freestyle, luge and skeleton only get a small time slot each night.

gbdub

February 18th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^

I generally feel the same way, but then I watched a whole session of ski jumping and realized they all looked exactly the same with some very minor differences that I don't understand, and then understood why it's easier to keep people glued to figure skating. The personality helps - the winter sliding sports are pretty dehumanizing with everybody zipped up tight in speed suits and trying to follow the exact same line.

Trebor

February 18th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^

I think, because of the endurance and athleticism required to pull off the moves they're required to do, it can be safely considered a "sport."

My issue with competitions that are "judged" is the lack of clarity when it comes to scoring. If the scoring was so clearly written out, I don't understand why sometimes the scoring has such a range to it amongst the judges. I also feel that reputation has far too much impact in the scoring. For example, in the men's half-pipe snowboarding, I thought Shaun White had a terrible second run in the finals, and still got higher than 90. He landed on the lip of the pipe twice, and while he didn't fall, I can't for the life of me figure out how that scored higher than some of the guys that hit the 80s without anything nearly as 'unappealing' to the average viewer. It just seemed like he got the benefit of the doubt since he is so widely considered the best snowboarder in the world.

gbdub

February 18th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^

I doubt reputation plays zero role, but the impression I get is that Shaun White attempts much more difficult tricks than most other competitors, and that a wobbly completion of a harder trick is scored more than a perfect completion of an easier trick.

acs236

February 18th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^

But I generally agree with the conclusion.

 

If it makes sense for you to keep your personal relationship a secret because the judges need to think you are in love with your teammate/partner, then what you're doing  isn't a sport..

 

sadeto

February 18th, 2014 at 4:09 PM ^

Ice dancing is included in the 'games' (not the 'sports') due to its appeal, as well as its athleticism and artistry. There are those who will ignore daredevil races against the clock, such as downhill skiing or the sledding sports, but will sit rapt before the television when ice dancing is on, and have strong opinions about the performances. Most of them are of the group we refer to as "women". 

I've always felt ice dancing should be combined with biathlon in some way to broaden its appeal to most men (e.g. two teams, one has skis and guns, the other dances on the ice, etc.), but my letters to the IOC recommending such have always gone unanswered. Politics.