We Watched Them Play
I am writing this as a diary to record what it has felt like to be a Michigan alum and fan during this "scandal" which Shutdown Fullcast today hilariously dubbed "Jail to the Victors."
The first thing that I want to do is share a link to an article about Gaslighting from the Cleveland Clinic, likely staffed by OSU alums who would have expertise on the subject. Without getting too into the weeds, gaslighting is when someone tries to make you feel crazy.
gaslighting happens when someone manipulates you into thinking your version of events didn’t happen the way you say they happened. They may gaslight you by questioning your authority, denying the evidence you have or doing everything they can to make you feel like you’re wrong.
I bring this up because even though I am in no way ashamed of or concerned about the behaviors being alleged here, it sure seems like people want me to be ashamed. Am I losing it, or did nothing wrong actually happen? Who was harmed?
What is the allegation here: that we watched opponents play a public football game? Not even a practice, mind you. Public game, tickets being sold. Broadcast on TV. And somehow we're not allowed to watch you play in person and record what an opponent just does out in the open, actually we're not even allowed to go and look and remember it well. How is this not some arcane rule?
However, I am also becoming more emboldened by this in some ways. Ohio State / Ryan Day's involvement in this investigation is the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen an opponent do.
They are so scared of us they hired investigators to drum up something that doesn't even make sense when you try to explain it to a casual fan. "Wait, they're not allowed to watch the other team play?" Is a response I've gotten from friends who don't really pay attention that closely.
They are terrified. They'd rather defeat us with kompromat than on the field; all they can drum up is cheeseburgers and "don't look at me, I'm hideous." I thought OSU was the "pro" college football program anyway. Do better signs.
Brian Kelly got people killed, nothing happened.
And all we did was watch them play.
October 25th, 2023 at 7:57 PM ^
Well said. I read this in the WaPo article and thought the same thing:
The outside firm also presented to NCAA officials photographs of people investigators believed to be Michigan scouts in action — including current students interning with the football team. The photos showed these people seated at games of Michigan opponents this season, aiming their cellphones at the sidelines.
A quick google search demonstrates the sheer audacity of having a cell phone at a college football game pointed at the field (worth noting that "aiming their cellphones at the sideline" from the stands would be a pretty speculative conclusion).
Gaslighting is the perfect description of what's going on here.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:48 PM ^
(worth noting that "aiming their cellphones at the sideline" from the stands would be a pretty speculative conclusion).
Thank you!
I haven't read every thread, article, or comment section.
But I have yet to see this pointed out and its been irrationally annoying.
Unless you have a clear view of the cell phone, it would be really hard to tell from a picture of a person in the stands if they are pointing at the field or at the side line.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
“Ohio State / Ryan Day's involvement in this investigation is the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen an opponent do.” What’s your source for asserting that they are involved in the investigation?
Since you haven’t cited any sources or contributed any novel information or analysis, this is not a helpful diary.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:07 PM ^
Although my stated intention was not to provide novel information or analysis but to use the diary as a diary, I do want to be helpful. Here is a comment from this blog's publisher, Seth, this afternoon:
Sam Webb exposed OSU as the B10 school that gathered the information, informed other B10 schools, and tracked Michigan's sign-stealing over the course of the season. Thamel is Ryan Day's man, and broke the story. Also Bill Greene, the former 11W writer who got broomed for paying and OSU walk-on for insider information, was the first to be saying anything public about this stuff, and other OSU insiders were the ones who knew there was a story about to break. The NCAA has not conducted an investigation yet, so everything out there is what was handed to them by Ohio State's investigation. The reporting on this subsequently has been mostly broken by, shaped by, and added to by Pete Thamel. The weird interpretations of NCAA rules are being copied from him. Nobody else has anything to add because the only source of information right now is what Ohio State investigated.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:25 PM ^
I sure hope Sam is right about this. As others have already pointed out, there were A LOT of very carefully chosen words and omissions in the WaPo article. Not to mention the carefully orchestrated drip campaign to keep this at the top of the front pages on the sports media outlets. It doesn't make sense to me that someone so integral to the success of your program would only be getting paid $55k. And the "$15,000" budget? LOL, really!?!? This grand, nefarious scheme only had a $15,000 budget? At work I've got access to who knows how many Shared Drives, SharePoint sites, what have you. I access like two of them. And so much sensationalism, this all just reeks something foul. Imagine having someone so in your head that you'd have to stoop to this.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:59 PM ^
This is how certain Ryan Day is that he's going to lose and get fired this year. He has to come up with the excuses before The Game even happens.
His career wasn't just born on third. It's about to die on third, too.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:35 PM ^
That is helpful, thanks.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:25 PM ^
Keep the pig. How many broads do I get?
October 25th, 2023 at 9:45 PM ^
You don't scare me. That could be anyone's ass.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:31 PM ^
This is my thinking too. I mean, the rule is in the books, but how this is on par with paying players is utterly beyond me.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:26 PM ^
Come on. This isn't that hard to understand and I think you understand it.
There is a rule. If the rule was broken, that's cheating.
You don't have to feel ashamed about it--certainly not personally. But even for the program, you don't have to feel ashamed. But not everyone thinks cheating is okay, which should be pretty self-explanatory.
Not here to debate whether or not everyone does it, or where it rates on the scale of NCAA violations, or anything like that. But when you say:
did nothing wrong actually happen? Who was harmed?
That is silly. There was (allegedly) cheating. That is "wrong." Even with something like paying players (before NIL) you could even have made some kind of moral argument that it was good to pay the players and the rule itself was immoral and therefore it was immoral to follow the rule. But that's not the case with this rule, even if it's a dumb rule.
So who was harmed? The teams we played who (allegedly) played by the rules.
October 25th, 2023 at 9:43 PM ^
I don't agree that one could demonstrate any material harm done to our opponents. I also am not following why, if it is a dumb rule, that it is good to obey a dumb rule. But most importantly, I actually agree with your basic thoughts and am fine with a proportionate response to this "infraction" if it results in a little news story and the loss of scholarships or something like that. I do not think we are even close to an appropriate response from either the media or our opponents to any of the alleged violations. It's a vendetta.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:09 PM ^
I'm assuming you're not arguing that it's a moral good to break this particular rule and that you're really saying it's neither good or bad, that it's neutral.
I feel like you're saying it's neutral because it's a meaningless, pointless rule because no material harm is done.
I can only think of one rule off the top of my head that actually fits that. The pine tar rule. Not sure how much you know about the George Brett incident, but I'm going to review it here to illustrate my point.
In the old baseball days, players used pine tar on their bats for a better grip. If the pine tar was too far up the bat, it sometimes got on the baseball when they hit the ball, and then the baseball couldn't be used anymore (because of foreign substances on a baseball being illegal because it can be too helpful for pitchers).
And a long time ago, the baseball teams really cared about having to discard baseballs because baseballs cost money. So they decided, new rule, you can only have pine tar so far up your bat to reduce the likelihood of getting the pine tar on the baseball and costing us money.
There was zero competitive advantage to having pine tar high up on the bat. In fact, it was a detriment to the batter because the ball is less likely to bounce off the sticky substance as far. So the rule was purely from a cost-saving perspective (sound familiar?).
By the time George Brett hit his home run, no one gave a shit about the cost of a baseball. But it was still on the books. So when the Yankees challenged the at-bat, the umps determined there was too much pine tar on the bat and called Brett out. And instead of the Royals taking a 1-run lead in the top of the 9th, Brett was the third out and the game was over.
The Royals protested the game. Protested games in baseball never go anywhere with the leagues--except this time. Because the rule was just that dumb and pointless. The American League actually had the game replayed a month later, picking up from 2 outs in the top of the ninth and counting Brett's home run. (Royals ended up winning the game.)
There is still a pine tar rule, but now you can't call the batter out for it. You just tell them they have to get a new bat if anyone even notices.
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That is not the case with what we're being accused of. Michigan, our opponents, and the NCAA all believe there is a benefit to advanced, in-person scouting. It's kind of obvious why, isn't it? To help better decode the signals before you play the other team? And knowing what play is coming is helpful. That's why lots of teams try to do sign stealing (legally and/or illegally).
If everyone were allowed to do the advanced, in-person scouting, then it would all be equal. But no one is allowed to do it. So if someone breaks that rule and does it, they are gaining an advantage that none of the rule-followers have. Competitive advantage gained by cheating. I don't know, in my book, on the scale of good/bad/indifferent, that falls in the "bad" part. If I really have to sit here and explain that further, I don't think I'll bother. But I sure as hell don't ever want to play any card games with you.
And the material harm to a team that has been cheated against, again, seems obvious to me. You are not giving them a fair chance to compete.
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To reiterate though: None of the above is any commentary on the seriousness of the offense or the type of punishment that should be levied. It's just talking about cheating as a binary: good or bad (or neutral, so maybe not a binary).
October 25th, 2023 at 11:23 PM ^
I actually think pine tar is an amazing analogy, though reasonable minds can differ. I feel that, for example, the vast differences in basic resources like recruiting money, facilities, staff create far greater disparities between schools, and there is no consideration of ethics among the accusing class there. I view the "sign stealing" like I view recruiting better players than another school does, it's just doing a better job at football. Like I said, I'm fine with small punishment, change the rules in the offseason to allow helmet communication, and move on, as I don't believe it has caused any unfair advantage.
*Also it's chicken shit stuff from Ryan Day to assess the landscape and go with this response
October 25th, 2023 at 11:36 PM ^
Alright. Well, we've done what we can here. Thanks for the convo.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:31 PM ^
This is a great example, but you don't have to go that far back to see this happening in professional sports.
Gambling in a team's facilities was banned by the NFL decades ago to keep cash out of said facilities because cash kept leading to fights.
The NFL, using electronic means, spied on Jameson Williams' betting behavior when, on a cell phone--ie no cash--he bet on a college basketball game during his off time, but in "team facilities."
Williams was given a 6 game suspension--more than players have received for infractions like beating up their girlfriends or other, actually illegal, behaviors.
They then changed the archaic rule and the biggest suspension levied will be 2 games. Williams, having served 4, was set free, but those other 2 games are lost to him and the team.
There are plenty of these archaic, vague, and grey area rules that exist to be used to hurt particular teams powerful entities want to hurt.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:30 PM ^
Win every remaining game like 49-0 and this all will matter little.
it will have shown it’s the team and talent.
Even if it’s the worst we can imagine it would make it so wrong to give much if any penalty. Admit it. Move on and recite the scores for infinity.
October 26th, 2023 at 3:35 AM ^
If this Wild Stallion was sent to games by coaches to scout the other team, take videos and report back to the coaches using those videos, then that is a NCAA rules violation. Yes, it used to be okay until the mid-90s to do that, but you can’t anymore. Teams that couldn’t afford to pay for travel were at a disadvantage. One of the many great NCAA rules that obviously evened the playing field for everyone.(sarcasm).
Stealing signs is legal, this is more like “Illegal Scouting”. But that doesn’t elicit the same response as stealing signs does when you report it.
It is crazy that this hasn’t been dropped as a rule—Video of every game is out there now—but it hasn’t.
I am going to now ignore it.
October 26th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
It’s mind-numbingly infuriating for me. Beyond stupid. Everyone is saying that too. Even “haters”. So damn dumb. Almost as serious as stretching for an extra 15 minutes. Ridiculous. You have programs with literal DUI reckless driving deaths lol wtf man
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