When people are put through the legal process and serve their time/punishment, are they not allowed to merge back into their lives? Did anyone ever think it might be the healthier thing to do for a person in the long term?
Dantonio hasn't brought everyone back... and he isn't perfect, no coach is. But in my opinion, Rittenberg, like most impartial observers, see a permanent suspension as not fitting the "crime".
I'd bet you're right that he sees the field again.
Dantonio will run his program, Rich Rod will run his. People do see this differently. There can be different levels of player involvement, not only in the Rather Hall incident... but anything, and different levels of discipline.
You weren't there. Was your sister-in-law at the bar the night before, when (reportedly) several football players were jumped that precipitated the incident?
I'm not condoning anything. It sucks. But this "people die in brawls" stuff is just hyperbole. Over the top.
You are just grasping at any dirt you can throw. Ridiculous.
...if Rucker finds his way on the field for Iowa I would be disappointed as well. I don't think he has a chance of playing this weekend, nor should he.
I read threads like this and wonder what you mean by "normalcy"? I assume you are saying when the University of Michigan football program returns to prominence again? Like there is going to be some type of re-balance in the universe?
No doubt, Michigan football will bounce back... but with the Big Ten changing, Nebraska coming in, MSU getting better (fair assumption?),... what is normalcy? Respectfully, UM is not pre-destined for anything moving forward.
Honestly, Dantonio or any other coach should use their own judgement. He shouldn't air everything publically about Rucker's situation. If it were me, I wouldn't want my coach to do that.
My guess, he sits again this weekend... and Minnesota, then is eligible after the bye week for the final two games.
As for does he deserve to be reinstated, I would say yes. He followed a group and from what I've read tried to kick somone in that Rather Hall mess. He pled out and (as we all know) blew a .10.
To me, it is more important for Chris Rucker as a person to be a part of what is going on at Michigan State this season than it is for MSU to get him back. I trust Dantonio.
I was in East Lansing and didn't see your game or the 4th quarter comeback, but at 4-15 in the Big Ten over three years and a defense that is the worst in UM history over my lifetime... what else it it?
I'm serious when I say this, Illinois at home is your best shot, otherwise you guys could have a hard time getting to six wins.
The only thing I would say on the flip of this, in terms of who I was rooting for, is that MSU made the plays but they WERE fortunate Robinson had the red zone problems... otherwise, it is tied down the stretch (counting the UM missed FG, as long as we're giving key plays back.)
Still, I believe MSU was going to be around at the end no matter what UM did on offense... due to the running game that he totally udnerestimates and dismisses.
Not that you want it from a "Sparty", but I give you credit for your candor.
...so could the Henne-to-Manningham game three years ago, and the Braylon game, etc.
I watched it again, after having been there, and there is no doubt that Robinson had some big mistakes... but give some credit to the defense. And I don't care what he says, MSU ran pretty damn well, despite UM loading the box.
...what exactly? That you, and most everyone in this thread, jumped all over a failed conspiracy theory that Dantonio did some fancy roster maneuvering in prep for the UM game? Shocker. And who is obsessed?
Why don't you ask the most relevant question? Should Rucker now be off the team?
Don't mean to be that way. The initial response was an attempt at a "Pot-Kettle" comment, regarding Dantonio and Rodriguez. I'd rather talk football. I hear ya.
Agreed. Hopefully, a senior quarterback and one more year for Caper-Baker-Bell will help offset some of that. But yea, the breaks the get this year in the schedule go away quick.
Personally, the Winston reinstatement to the field happened way too fast for my liking too.
As for the Rather Hall stuff, some players didn't make it back onto the team. Others were suspended for the rest of the year and reinstated for this season. The whole thing was a mess, I grant you. But honestly, after being punished are you saying everyone involved to whatever extent (and we don't know who did what) should be permanently banned from the team? If so, that is where we would disagree.
Having said that, I think Dantonio has also learned from all of this. Maybe that is why, possibly, he suspended Rucker so quickly for (possibly) something that might not be so severe this time? Ever consider that?
"Classless dicks", really? All MSU fans? Hmmm. Very classy Blue Voix.
Again, hate the FDB chant. (But you know what, I've also heard many comments from UM fans at sporting events over the years... walking back to cars, etc.... aimed at no one in particular.)
And if you're being really truthful with yourself, (cue more negative points please) don't expect State to go back to "being irrelevant" anytime soon. I think, deep down, that's what bothers many of you the most.
While I didn't call you a liar directly Wahoo, so let's be clear o-k, I still contend your (and others) continued animus toward Michigan State and Dantonio is based, in part, on the past three years and Saturday's win. If not, I apologize.
The comment about bowl eligibility was made in response to your slamming Dantonio.
As for the RCMB stuff, again... didn't read it then, but if no one called them out on that board for such comments about Bo (which I don't know to be true), then I totally agree with you. I hate the "First Down Bitch" stuff. I just wish MSU fans could take prosperity in the small doses we've had it over recent years.
Negative point total? I'm not convinced a Spartan on this site can do well right now, with the current state of Michigan football. (Not meant to be a slam.)
BACK TO FOOTBALL... this week is huge on both fronts, for both schools.
Not sure how I'm exactly pissing people off? Just the fact that a Spartan fan wanders onto your board is enough to gain negative points. And, no... I get you're not supposed to gather them.
Funny thing about the supposed "history" of Dantonio's disciplinary policies... he let Winston back on the team after the fight and jail sentence last year, it blew up in his face and he suspended everyone he knew to be involved.
Rucker does something, he suspends him for at least one game, maybe more.
Not sure what awful history you speak of?
(Maybe this is the part where I piss the collective off.) What makes you think UM has any moral high ground here?
If that is true, then they're idiots. Just like the MSU students who sat behind me yesterday yelling "first down bitch" at every opportunity. Can't stand up for the actions of everyone.
But you're also indicting an entire message board. Should you be held to that measuring stick here?
And "stupid troll" was painful. You should really apologize. It would be the class thing to do.
It is because many posters here, without knowing what they are talking about... go off all half-cocked on MSU and Dantonio again. I do like discussing football with other fans, but when you guys are laying in wait of possible probation with a Coach with a checkered past... this type of thread is laughable.
Thought I'd point it out, since we're friends and all... and gather some more negative points.
In hindsight, I get your point about letting the season play out... but many Michigan fans are also questioning it RIGHT NOW.
If you look at the facts with coach Rodriguez... his record in Big Ten play (4-14), a defense that is struggling, losing to rivals, NCAA investigations (on rather cheap issues, I grant you)... and now heading into the meat of your schedule... sorry, people are talking about it.
5-1 has been a pleasant surprise, as has Robinson. But the debate will grow quickly if a few more losses mount as to "what Rodriguez has to do" to keep his job. What record will be good enough?
As for you not giving me a "second thought",... why would I be surprised by that, or expect you would? I have posted multiple times on other days, and the reason I've done so now after this game is pretty obvious. You might not believe it, but I would have posted here win or lose. I like an alternative fan base "take", which is why I read here too... often not posting.
I'll also say that as well as they played, Michigan State is fortunate that Robinson was "off" in the red zone, UM also dropped a few passes and missed a FG... otherwise, we have a tie game at the end like many expected. I'm a believer that teams are mostly never as good as they appear in a win, or as bad as they appear in a loss. State will have their hands full with Illinois. I do not believe they are "all that".
As I've posted previously, I hope UM regains it's footing next week. I do want a football rivalry with both teams ranked each season. I'd also love a Duke-UNC type rivalry in basketball. No reason that both programs can't be relevant at the same time.
Don't mean to antagonize you, or anyone here. Sometimes the written word can be mis-interpreted.
Nice Big Blue... good to see you can handle a tough afternoon with such class. Many of your own alumni I spoke with today brought Harbaugh up. It has been discussed before, as has how many wins Rodriguez needs to keep his job.
Might he be fired... I sure as heck don't know. I was asking a hypothetical about Harbaugh. Relax.
As for Dantonio heading to OSU some day, he very well could. It is supposedly the one destination he covets. But, many also hope with the bond he has for MSU... helped in large part by the Michigan rivalry (i.e., "little brother") wiull be strong enough that he could see East Lansing as an end destination and do well for years to come.
Honestly Bronx... UM is our biggest rival. No Spartan hides from that, and never will. But I believe Spartan fans today finally hope for more... and do care about a lot more than just beating Michigan.
UM is the centerpiece of our schedule every year, while you all have OSU. But I would like to think MSU is now a bigger rival for you today than Notre Dame for heaven's sake. They should be.
I agree you guys have a lot of season left. I will be watching with interest how this team (Michigan) picks itself up for the rest of the year.
Next year, MSU gets the big boys back on the schedule... but with a senior QB and their entire backfield returning. I wouldn't say "won't" to anything.
I also think, if you guys get your defense straightened out... things could get a lot better for you in a hurry.
I post here because I like an alternative perspective. Have for weeks, since the season began.
I've admitted from the start that MSU's schedule is more than accomodating... but you know what, I consider the past two weeks quality wins. (Unless you consider Michigan to be a "meaningless opponent"?) Robinson was running through everyone. Don't devalue stopping him in his own house.
Give some credit... it won't hurt.
Personally, I hope all future MSU-UM games are between ranked teams. I know it didn't turn out like you all wanted today, but the lead up this week was awesome. With the new alignment coming, times change.
...here today, right now, the MSU football program is improving and has leveled the playing field with you? I'm not talking history, can't compare the past three decades-plus.
But for the past ten years, your overtime wins rolled in, this has been a very competitive series. Michigan State is as good as Michigan is right now. I think that is a fair thing to say. Over the past few weeks, I've been drummed here for suggesting it.
As for the "Mike Hart Curse", it is just a bit of fun (from a Spartan perspective) irony. Three years does not a curse make, does it?
I think many MSU fans would settle for acknowledgement of being a deserving rival again. For many years, we didn't hold up our end of the bargain.
Sorry... not trying to troll. I've posted here all season. Iowa is a big game for UM. I know your (collectively) not in the mood right now, but there is a lot of season left.
I am curious how the fanbase reacts in the weeks ahead, regarding your head coach. Would Harbaugh come back here?
Which uis another reason why the mythical National Championship in college football needs to be changed. I would agree if they were to run the table, and that is a big if, MSU has played nowhere near the caliber of schedule to deserve such consideration.
Now, they've beaten who they've had lined up... give them credit. But their schedule, as discussed, has been way too favorable.
But having saidf that... crystal ball fantasy time, how about an MSU-OSU title game? Nightmare scenairo?
Not a prediction, but they always play Iowa well... and Penn State is down a bit this year. Illinois, at NWestern, at Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue and at PSU, all winnable games.
...I was fortunate enough to eb invited to a tailgate with some members of your '62-'65 alumni, and after the game they thanked me (State in general) for helping get Rodriguez out of town.
Not flaming, but you are a divided camp on this one.
As for the game, without turnovers (woulda, shoulda, coulda, I know), the game is pretty event into the 4th quarter. Michigan moved the ball. Just didn't finish.
...was on September 1, 2007, the start of the Dantonio era at Michigan State. Fresh off a 55-to-18 win over UAB on a beautiful sunny afternoon, out in the parking lot was the end of the UM-Appalachian State game. Good times.
Followed closely by postgame on November 3rd, 2007... where the curse was born.
Ingham County Prosecutor Stuart Dunnings has never hesitated to prosecute MSU athletes before, i.e. Rather Hall.
But, in the article...
"In a statement dated Sept. 14 and released on Friday, Dunnings says charging a criminal sexual conduct case “requires the element of force and/or coercion.” He said numerous prosecutors of both genders reviewed the case report and “none could find any of these necessary elements.” "
He'd nail them if he could,... but who knows what really happened?
The fact that the alleged incident occured in a dorm room should tell you something.
Recent Comments
...through a Maize and Blue prism.
When people are put through the legal process and serve their time/punishment, are they not allowed to merge back into their lives? Did anyone ever think it might be the healthier thing to do for a person in the long term?
Dantonio hasn't brought everyone back... and he isn't perfect, no coach is. But in my opinion, Rittenberg, like most impartial observers, see a permanent suspension as not fitting the "crime".
I'd bet you're right that he sees the field again.
Jump on him for what exactly?
Dantonio will run his program, Rich Rod will run his. People do see this differently. There can be different levels of player involvement, not only in the Rather Hall incident... but anything, and different levels of discipline.
You weren't there. Was your sister-in-law at the bar the night before, when (reportedly) several football players were jumped that precipitated the incident?
I'm not condoning anything. It sucks. But this "people die in brawls" stuff is just hyperbole. Over the top.
You are just grasping at any dirt you can throw. Ridiculous.
...if Rucker finds his way on the field for Iowa I would be disappointed as well. I don't think he has a chance of playing this weekend, nor should he.
And if they are able to pull through in Iowa City Saturday that will grow.
I read threads like this and wonder what you mean by "normalcy"? I assume you are saying when the University of Michigan football program returns to prominence again? Like there is going to be some type of re-balance in the universe?
No doubt, Michigan football will bounce back... but with the Big Ten changing, Nebraska coming in, MSU getting better (fair assumption?),... what is normalcy? Respectfully, UM is not pre-destined for anything moving forward.
...the process is playing out with his sentence.
Honestly, Dantonio or any other coach should use their own judgement. He shouldn't air everything publically about Rucker's situation. If it were me, I wouldn't want my coach to do that.
My guess, he sits again this weekend... and Minnesota, then is eligible after the bye week for the final two games.
As for does he deserve to be reinstated, I would say yes. He followed a group and from what I've read tried to kick somone in that Rather Hall mess. He pled out and (as we all know) blew a .10.
To me, it is more important for Chris Rucker as a person to be a part of what is going on at Michigan State this season than it is for MSU to get him back. I trust Dantonio.
...you are a very generous fan.
I was in East Lansing and didn't see your game or the 4th quarter comeback, but at 4-15 in the Big Ten over three years and a defense that is the worst in UM history over my lifetime... what else it it?
I'm serious when I say this, Illinois at home is your best shot, otherwise you guys could have a hard time getting to six wins.
I still contend Coach Harbaugh is what you need.
The only thing I would say on the flip of this, in terms of who I was rooting for, is that MSU made the plays but they WERE fortunate Robinson had the red zone problems... otherwise, it is tied down the stretch (counting the UM missed FG, as long as we're giving key plays back.)
Still, I believe MSU was going to be around at the end no matter what UM did on offense... due to the running game that he totally udnerestimates and dismisses.
Not that you want it from a "Sparty", but I give you credit for your candor.
Can't argue with this.
...so could the Henne-to-Manningham game three years ago, and the Braylon game, etc.
I watched it again, after having been there, and there is no doubt that Robinson had some big mistakes... but give some credit to the defense. And I don't care what he says, MSU ran pretty damn well, despite UM loading the box.
.
...what exactly? That you, and most everyone in this thread, jumped all over a failed conspiracy theory that Dantonio did some fancy roster maneuvering in prep for the UM game? Shocker. And who is obsessed?
Why don't you ask the most relevant question? Should Rucker now be off the team?
Don't mean to be that way. The initial response was an attempt at a "Pot-Kettle" comment, regarding Dantonio and Rodriguez. I'd rather talk football. I hear ya.
Agreed. Hopefully, a senior quarterback and one more year for Caper-Baker-Bell will help offset some of that. But yea, the breaks the get this year in the schedule go away quick.
I was referring to past issues at WVU. But you're right, it doesn't apply to UM... right now.
Thanks BigBlue02. Stay classy, like you all speak of.
I get your point.
Personally, the Winston reinstatement to the field happened way too fast for my liking too.
As for the Rather Hall stuff, some players didn't make it back onto the team. Others were suspended for the rest of the year and reinstated for this season. The whole thing was a mess, I grant you. But honestly, after being punished are you saying everyone involved to whatever extent (and we don't know who did what) should be permanently banned from the team? If so, that is where we would disagree.
Having said that, I think Dantonio has also learned from all of this. Maybe that is why, possibly, he suspended Rucker so quickly for (possibly) something that might not be so severe this time? Ever consider that?
"Classless dicks", really? All MSU fans? Hmmm. Very classy Blue Voix.
Again, hate the FDB chant. (But you know what, I've also heard many comments from UM fans at sporting events over the years... walking back to cars, etc.... aimed at no one in particular.)
And if you're being really truthful with yourself, (cue more negative points please) don't expect State to go back to "being irrelevant" anytime soon. I think, deep down, that's what bothers many of you the most.
While I didn't call you a liar directly Wahoo, so let's be clear o-k, I still contend your (and others) continued animus toward Michigan State and Dantonio is based, in part, on the past three years and Saturday's win. If not, I apologize.
The comment about bowl eligibility was made in response to your slamming Dantonio.
As for the RCMB stuff, again... didn't read it then, but if no one called them out on that board for such comments about Bo (which I don't know to be true), then I totally agree with you. I hate the "First Down Bitch" stuff. I just wish MSU fans could take prosperity in the small doses we've had it over recent years.
Negative point total? I'm not convinced a Spartan on this site can do well right now, with the current state of Michigan football. (Not meant to be a slam.)
BACK TO FOOTBALL... this week is huge on both fronts, for both schools.
Finally, someone in this thread who gets it.
But sorry wolpherine2000, not that you asked for or wanted it, but my endorsement will no doubt cost you a few points!
What
And your point is?
What should they have done, exactly? Tar and feather in the public square? What would have worked for you Section 1?
BTW... quit trolling on that site. I've heard that's bad.
Not sure how I'm exactly pissing people off? Just the fact that a Spartan fan wanders onto your board is enough to gain negative points. And, no... I get you're not supposed to gather them.
Funny thing about the supposed "history" of Dantonio's disciplinary policies... he let Winston back on the team after the fight and jail sentence last year, it blew up in his face and he suspended everyone he knew to be involved.
Rucker does something, he suspends him for at least one game, maybe more.
Not sure what awful history you speak of?
(Maybe this is the part where I piss the collective off.) What makes you think UM has any moral high ground here?
If that is true, then they're idiots. Just like the MSU students who sat behind me yesterday yelling "first down bitch" at every opportunity. Can't stand up for the actions of everyone.
But you're also indicting an entire message board. Should you be held to that measuring stick here?
And "stupid troll" was painful. You should really apologize. It would be the class thing to do.
My respect for you grows by the minute Blue-Chip.
And, if history holds... that "integrity" thing may just come to bite you in the ass.
It is because many posters here, without knowing what they are talking about... go off all half-cocked on MSU and Dantonio again. I do like discussing football with other fans, but when you guys are laying in wait of possible probation with a Coach with a checkered past... this type of thread is laughable.
Thought I'd point it out, since we're friends and all... and gather some more negative points.
This.
You might want to worry about becomming bowl eligible.
A voice of reason.
Good thing ya'll aren't obessed about Michigan State.
...I get it, I get it.
But if you don't think Mr. Brandon isn't thinking through all scenairos, you're fooling yourself.
In hindsight, I get your point about letting the season play out... but many Michigan fans are also questioning it RIGHT NOW.
If you look at the facts with coach Rodriguez... his record in Big Ten play (4-14), a defense that is struggling, losing to rivals, NCAA investigations (on rather cheap issues, I grant you)... and now heading into the meat of your schedule... sorry, people are talking about it.
5-1 has been a pleasant surprise, as has Robinson. But the debate will grow quickly if a few more losses mount as to "what Rodriguez has to do" to keep his job. What record will be good enough?
As for you not giving me a "second thought",... why would I be surprised by that, or expect you would? I have posted multiple times on other days, and the reason I've done so now after this game is pretty obvious. You might not believe it, but I would have posted here win or lose. I like an alternative fan base "take", which is why I read here too... often not posting.
I'll also say that as well as they played, Michigan State is fortunate that Robinson was "off" in the red zone, UM also dropped a few passes and missed a FG... otherwise, we have a tie game at the end like many expected. I'm a believer that teams are mostly never as good as they appear in a win, or as bad as they appear in a loss. State will have their hands full with Illinois. I do not believe they are "all that".
As I've posted previously, I hope UM regains it's footing next week. I do want a football rivalry with both teams ranked each season. I'd also love a Duke-UNC type rivalry in basketball. No reason that both programs can't be relevant at the same time.
Don't mean to antagonize you, or anyone here. Sometimes the written word can be mis-interpreted.
P.S. Yet another burning reference, again?
Nice Big Blue... good to see you can handle a tough afternoon with such class. Many of your own alumni I spoke with today brought Harbaugh up. It has been discussed before, as has how many wins Rodriguez needs to keep his job.
Might he be fired... I sure as heck don't know. I was asking a hypothetical about Harbaugh. Relax.
As for Dantonio heading to OSU some day, he very well could. It is supposedly the one destination he covets. But, many also hope with the bond he has for MSU... helped in large part by the Michigan rivalry (i.e., "little brother") wiull be strong enough that he could see East Lansing as an end destination and do well for years to come.
Honestly Bronx... UM is our biggest rival. No Spartan hides from that, and never will. But I believe Spartan fans today finally hope for more... and do care about a lot more than just beating Michigan.
UM is the centerpiece of our schedule every year, while you all have OSU. But I would like to think MSU is now a bigger rival for you today than Notre Dame for heaven's sake. They should be.
I agree you guys have a lot of season left. I will be watching with interest how this team (Michigan) picks itself up for the rest of the year.
I agree with what you've said.
Next year, MSU gets the big boys back on the schedule... but with a senior QB and their entire backfield returning. I wouldn't say "won't" to anything.
I also think, if you guys get your defense straightened out... things could get a lot better for you in a hurry.
Sure. I'd suggest not picking up the newspaper tomorrow too.
Best post of the bunch... IMHO.
...Spartan fans know how badly the UM faithful wanted this game.
My two cents...
Not that anyone here cares, but there are some of us who now resume rooting for Michigan.
I post here because I like an alternative perspective. Have for weeks, since the season began.
I've admitted from the start that MSU's schedule is more than accomodating... but you know what, I consider the past two weeks quality wins. (Unless you consider Michigan to be a "meaningless opponent"?) Robinson was running through everyone. Don't devalue stopping him in his own house.
Give some credit... it won't hurt.
Personally, I hope all future MSU-UM games are between ranked teams. I know it didn't turn out like you all wanted today, but the lead up this week was awesome. With the new alignment coming, times change.
...here today, right now, the MSU football program is improving and has leveled the playing field with you? I'm not talking history, can't compare the past three decades-plus.
But for the past ten years, your overtime wins rolled in, this has been a very competitive series. Michigan State is as good as Michigan is right now. I think that is a fair thing to say. Over the past few weeks, I've been drummed here for suggesting it.
As for the "Mike Hart Curse", it is just a bit of fun (from a Spartan perspective) irony. Three years does not a curse make, does it?
I think many MSU fans would settle for acknowledgement of being a deserving rival again. For many years, we didn't hold up our end of the bargain.
Sorry... not trying to troll. I've posted here all season. Iowa is a big game for UM. I know your (collectively) not in the mood right now, but there is a lot of season left.
I am curious how the fanbase reacts in the weeks ahead, regarding your head coach. Would Harbaugh come back here?
DRob is still awesome... and move the team today. Made mistake, yes, but a wonderful player.
Some of your fans in section 16, not many, but some... were actually bitching about him. Couldn't believe it.
Which uis another reason why the mythical National Championship in college football needs to be changed. I would agree if they were to run the table, and that is a big if, MSU has played nowhere near the caliber of schedule to deserve such consideration.
Now, they've beaten who they've had lined up... give them credit. But their schedule, as discussed, has been way too favorable.
But having saidf that... crystal ball fantasy time, how about an MSU-OSU title game? Nightmare scenairo?
Not a prediction, but they always play Iowa well... and Penn State is down a bit this year. Illinois, at NWestern, at Iowa, Minnesota, Purdue and at PSU, all winnable games.
...I was fortunate enough to eb invited to a tailgate with some members of your '62-'65 alumni, and after the game they thanked me (State in general) for helping get Rodriguez out of town.
Not flaming, but you are a divided camp on this one.
As for the game, without turnovers (woulda, shoulda, coulda, I know), the game is pretty event into the 4th quarter. Michigan moved the ball. Just didn't finish.
Don't call time outs. If you essentially give up with 5:00 to go by punting, don't call time outs.
We're not your rival.
...was on September 1, 2007, the start of the Dantonio era at Michigan State. Fresh off a 55-to-18 win over UAB on a beautiful sunny afternoon, out in the parking lot was the end of the UM-Appalachian State game. Good times.
Followed closely by postgame on November 3rd, 2007... where the curse was born.
Game on.
Ingham County Prosecutor Stuart Dunnings has never hesitated to prosecute MSU athletes before, i.e. Rather Hall.
But, in the article...
"In a statement dated Sept. 14 and released on Friday, Dunnings says charging a criminal sexual conduct case “requires the element of force and/or coercion.” He said numerous prosecutors of both genders reviewed the case report and “none could find any of these necessary elements.” "
He'd nail them if he could,... but who knows what really happened?
The fact that the alleged incident occured in a dorm room should tell you something.