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02/09/2011 - 3:25pm Ken Dorsey was a QB in the

Ken Dorsey was a QB in the Big East ;) , but anyways, the guy who talked about speed outside of skill positions hit the nail on the head. SEC makes its mark with athletes on DEFENSE. SEC DLs especially are uber talented. Before the Bama/MSU bowl game this yer, there was a quote from Saban saying how MSU's D wouldn't bother them as much as they didn't have speed rushers like SEC teams they were used to. That about sums it up. Speedy pass rushers are generally missing across the Big10. Even Ohio State doesn't have much in that area. LBs and DBs and probably TEs for that matter are also more athletic across the SEC.

02/09/2011 - 2:54pm ah yes, it's a coincidence

ah yes, it's a coincidence that 20% of our population, at best, makes up 90+% of the high level athletes in this country. I forgot. It may not be the skin color that does it, but African Americans are better athletes. There will be no white Lebrons or Julius Peppers/Mike Vicks walking through the door anytime soon and if it somehow happens, it will be quite the anomally.

02/09/2011 - 1:15pm Well said jmblue

this post should have ended the thread. The SEC is stacked. They are getting a higher percentage of the top athletes, period. Its not hard to see in recruiting. That isn't everything, but it's a good start.

02/09/2011 - 1:02pm as a 1 year player of

as a 1 year player of football, his slow footedness could very well be due to bad technique/footwork due to being so raw. Similar to how some of our faster players got ran around on defense last year by slower players, as they weren't in the right position or taking the right angles. He also might be just a big slow bum, but I hope the coaching staff will be able to figure that out.

02/09/2011 - 1:00pm I say offer him a scholly. We

I say offer him a scholly. We have little to lose IMO. We'll all be pissed if he ends up at OSU as a starting LT or something. If he had played football his junior year, when teams are most looking at your tape, he'd probably be a much higher rated recruit. There is a chance he is jsut never going to develop of course, but that is the chance you take with recruits. He's got the frame and athleticism to be an OT at this level. We're thin with depth and we have a scholarship or 2 left still for this year. Take him, redshirt him and see what you can build him up to. We're going to have 4-6 guys leave between now and next year, we'll have plenty of scholarships left for that class. We need another OL in this class. 

02/07/2011 - 8:00pm Anyone else think Demmens is

Anyone else think Demmens is similar to Harris?



and by the way Harris would still be an excellent MLB in our defense and Woodley would have been an awesome pass rushing RDE under Marinelli especially but under Schwartz too, as he likes to get pressure with the front 4 much of the time. Woodley might be undersized, but he's a freakin' monster. He can play DE for me any day, especially if it's between him and Drew STanton being on my team.


02/07/2011 - 7:38pm I think we set up well for a

I think we set up well for a 4-3 and there is certainly no down side to it. It's the ideal defense in the big 10. A 3-4 would be nice, but it's tough to implement without the right players. We have too many 4-3 OLB types on the team and Roh and Martin are minimalized to some degree. Martin as a run plugger, Roh in space.

The key to it this year is obviously the NT spot, or whatever you want to call the spot next to Martin. I'm confident Washington can at least be solid in short yardage situations, but can he be a full time DT for us? Ash was supposedly impressive in bowl practices and will go through his second year of offseason training with us. I think we really need him to be a factor. All 4 of our DTs need to be at least rotation worthy really. Ash or Campbell can rotate with Q at the one spot and whoever loses that battle needs to at least be able to rest Martin. I suppose RVB can be the 4th DT if Ash or BWC is a bust. Ideally he mostly plays DE though. If that is the case, our DE rotation is pretty strong with him,Roh and Black, plus hopefully Wilkins and/or Beyer is ready to contribute. Beyer is a freak athlete and will likely play at about 240, not the 220-5 he's listed at. I think he could be effective spelling the starters occasionally as a pass rush specialist. He's more capable of dropping into coverage than Roh too IMO, so MAttison will probably want to use that. I'd feel better if we had gotten Cooper

If we manage to solidify that NT spot, I don't see LB as an issue. We'll mostly keep blockers off them and Demmens is a rock in the middle. Gordon,Ryan,Furman,Fitzgerald,M.Jones and maybe even Herron,Carvin or one of the freshmen are solid options to take hold of the 2 OLB slots. None are proven, but Cam looked pretty good as a LB and we've all heard the Ryan mythyology by now. Fitzgerald is a good talent who will be a senior,Jones has flashed potential and Furman is a hell of an athlete who needed time to bulk up to LB size. Carvin was one of our best tacklers as a true freshman and may not have the coverage skills for S, especially FS if Kovacs and/or Marvin Robinson are manning SS.  I think we are about to see a return to the type of LBs we are used to seeing at Michigan, flying around the field and hitting people.

The secondary is key, but that's true regardless of scheme. We'll be better with a year of experience, a freshman class that at worst is better than last  year's seniors(basically Rogers since Troy W was hurt) and Woolfolk back. A WR could be moved here to even out the depth charts. Someone like Grady or Stokes who sees their opportunities shrinking by the day at WR makes sense.  Grady has been talked about before, not sure if Stokes could do it. If a young talent like Christian or Countess can beat out Floyd for the 3rd CB job, we'll be in much better shape. Floyd is probably not a top 3 CB in the big 10. Also Christian or Floyd will likely be the FS on passing downs. Christian could take the every job down even if he impresses.

02/04/2011 - 1:56pm Fresmen - Barnett redshirts

Fresmen - Barnett redshirts with Koger,Moore and Miller in front of him. Countess grabs the starting job opposite Woolfolk. Rawls also redshirts to acclimate  himself to the academic grind at UM but Hayes contributes as a 3rd down back. 


Offense - Cox to FB, Hopkins gets the most carries. We run more 3 WR than 2 TE or TE/FB and Roundtree,Hemingway and Stonum all have big  years. Grady to DB,Watson possibly to TE.


Defense - Ryan and C.Gordon combine with Demmens to make LB a strength. Carvin takes the SS job from Kovacs and Washington takes the NT job on run downs, Martin and RVB inside on pass downs with Ash rotating in, maybe BWC too. 

02/03/2011 - 11:03pm I'd take Courtney on the

I'd take Courtney on the Pistons in a heartbeat. He can't be worse than Maxiell and WAllace is hurt. 

02/03/2011 - 10:57pm Why do we want to bring money

Why do we want to bring money to the city, nobody lives there anymore. Put the Wings and Pistons in the Palace for 10 years and then build a new stadium at the same site if anything. All the freakin' hockey fans live in Oakland county(the ones that buy tix at least) and that location is much better suited to handle the traffic and such. You have a built in, team owned lot and it's easy as hell to get in and out of the Palace compared to going to say, Comerica Park at 6 o clock on a week day. Like someone said, Detroit has bigger things to worry about. They need to break it up into 3 or 4 different cities .

02/03/2011 - 10:53pm Well Jimmy D was there before

Well Jimmy D was there before Holland and Illitch has given his teams a ton of money to spend. That's the most important part. Let the people who know what they are doing handle the hockey/baseball side of things. The Tigers are a shit ton better with DD and JL than they were before Illitch came. 

02/03/2011 - 2:31pm We won't miss Willingham.

We won't miss Willingham. He'd have been a good one, don't me wrong ,but we are set at LB

WLB - Gordon,M.Jones,Furman,A.Poole,Hawthorne

MLB Demmens Bell Morgan

SLB Fitzgerald Bell K.Jones Clark


That's 12 LBs with only one of them graduating next year. We'll most likely add one of the local guys if not 2 next year as well. I'm not worried about the size issue as far as Willingham either. Guys like Mouton and Bell came in as 205 lb safeties as well and were quickly up to 245 or so. It's not going to be hard to put weight on guys like Jones and Clark especially. 

02/03/2011 - 2:25pm Furman came here to bulk up

Furman came here to bulk up and be a LB. He is not a SS much less a FS. He is too big and lumbering back there. He has speed and athleticism, elite for a LB, poor for a S. He isn't smooth enough in coverage and such. It'd be like Ernest Shazor back there(I have nightmares about him in coverage still) except as a FS instead of strong, so worse. 


Furman should be a good one. If he and Jones both look good along with Ryan, I still like the idea of Cam going to offense. Next year, we are going to be thin at WR. We recruited none this year, 4 graduate and Miller will be a TE. Guys like Williamson,Jackson and Robinson are unproven and the rest are slot types. Gordon and Roundtree at WR in a WCO would be nasty.  Put Miller,Barnett,Moore and a blocking type in the TE rotation. 

02/02/2011 - 11:34pm Mattison with Clowney would

Mattison with Clowney would be so fun. Too bad we never had a shot with him. 

02/02/2011 - 11:08pm or most players you recruit

or most players you recruit for football are going to be physical and/or athletic?

02/02/2011 - 11:05pm I gotta throw another vote

I gotta throw another vote out there for Kellen Jones. I think he's better than Poole to be honest. I like Poole a lot too, but Jones is going to be special. Also excited for Hayes and Hollowell amongst others

02/02/2011 - 4:26pm True but MW is a sick talent.

True but MW is a sick talent. #5 DB by scout I believe too. Some guys just aren't football players though. I did think he had a chance to break out last year if healthy, as he was pretty young prior to that, but it was hardly a certainty. Some guys just don't have the instincts and understanding of the game to match their natural talents and athelticism. You take guys like that every time out of HS though. 

02/02/2011 - 4:24pm Yah Carr didn't go too all

Yah Carr didn't go too all out the last 2 years with the Parkinson's and everything else. I'm not sure the class is a complete bust as advertised, but oh well. I think it will be redeemed a bit if Hemingway and Woolfolk have the SR. seasons they are expected to. It's really too bad Warren didn't stay another year. Him and Troy at CB would have changed the whole D

02/02/2011 - 4:21pm Well, we already know Ole

Well, we already know Ole Miss pays after the Newton thing(not caught paying, but clearly were in discussions) so I'm guessing that's the reason.

02/02/2011 - 4:17pm Hemingway and Molk too at the

Hemingway and Molk too at the least

02/02/2011 - 4:10pm I really want Willingham to

I really want Willingham to close out the class, but we will live without him too. We have a lot of young bodies at LB with Furman,Gordon(maybe both),Ryan,M.Jones and K.Jones,Clark,Morgan already in this year's class. A guy like Fisher or Cooper was a bigger need. 


Anyone think Hoke feels stupid for not taking Lucien at WR now?

02/02/2011 - 4:07pm I just can't help but think

I just can't help but think about what our offense would be like with Denard as a LaMichael James type RB, maybe punt returner too. Compliment him with Rawls/Shaw and Hopkins and put them behind Devin Gardner and you have something sick there. Just DG and DRob in the same backfield alone is sick.

02/02/2011 - 2:11pm Yah, as soon as Ray Drew and

Yah, as soon as Ray Drew and Avery Walls make the last second switch to UM we'll be all set. I'd also settle for a Kouindajo(sp?) and Clowney combination

02/02/2011 - 2:05pm anyone catch the Justice

anyone catch the Justice Hayes- 5 star recruit on the screen at some point?

02/02/2011 - 1:04pm Jake Ryan and Josh Furman are

Jake Ryan and Josh Furman are two guys I'm really excited about for next year. I expect both to be impact players at LB. Ryan as the possible strong side starter, Furman probably as a nickel if Gordon stays at LB.

02/02/2011 - 12:58pm Eh, he was a frosh and he's

Eh, he was a frosh and he's one of our only LBs with size. Not sure how much I care about FB right now. I say keep him at LB until he's an official bust.

02/01/2011 - 2:45pm I wonder if Flavin or Nowicki

I wonder if Flavin or Nowicki could still be flipped. Too bad we didn't pull Westerman, should have been one we could have pulled with Roh and Lewan here.

02/01/2011 - 1:06pm I can't disagree too much. I

I can't disagree too much. I mean, Hemingway is a good player and down the stretch last year he was better than Roundtree, but he isn't a top 20 player in the nation type.

01/28/2011 - 12:59pm how beautiful would it be if

how beautiful would it be if we could get V.Smith to transer, on his own voliton and then sign Rawls with that slot?

01/28/2011 - 12:57pm Raymon Taylor

Raymon Taylor

01/28/2011 - 12:15pm Oh well, we don't have room

Oh well, we don't have room for a FB in this class IMO. Willingham,Cooper,Fisher and Bryant are the most important right now. 2 impact front 7 defenders and the 2 OL we really need. 

After that I'd like Barnett and Rawls. I don't mind taking Clark, but with Poole and Willingham we don't need him. Kinda hoping Tedd Ginn Sr. really does talk him away from UM. However that would be bad for our chances at Glenville guys. We need a TE more though and Rawls is more of an impact guy most likely. If Barnett doesn't come maybe we take Clark as a TE. Either way he's going to spend a year in the weight room bulking up before that decision is made. A lot of the TE draft prospects are 6-3 this year, so its not a huge concern really. 6-5/6 is ideal, but more premium NFL size than necessary college size

01/27/2011 - 1:43pm The ideas of Grady to DB and

The ideas of Grady to DB and GAllon to RB in the above article make some sense too. Grady won't see the field much and he's a senior. If he can play some CB, we might be able to use the depth, in the least to RS an extra freshman. Gallon is a guy you have to use. He's a playmaker. Let him return punts and do some Percy Harvin type stuff. Hope that T.Robinson and/or Dileo transfers, Vincent Smith too. Stokes might want to think about it even given that he is a junior and won't start til next year at earliest

01/27/2011 - 1:28pm Well Borges has certainly

Well Borges has certainly worked with plenty of 3 WR sets being a WCO guy. Maybe not at SDSU, but its not like he's incapable of incorporating an extra WR or 2. 


Bottom line, Roundtree,Stonum,Hemingway and Odoms need to be on the field, a lot. 3 of them should be on the field most plays. Next year when the last 3 plus Grady graduate, we can go a little less WR heavy. 


I still like the theory that Cam is going back to WR. He'd probably start next to Roundtree next year. Perfect fit in the WCO and his ceiling is only so high on defense. We have WLBs to replace him, especially with us going LB heavy in this class. I'm not sold on guys like Jackson,Stokes and co. taking over as starters. We'll see I guess, but I think Cam makes a lot of sense. I stole this idea from an Mgoblog diary, so I'm not trying to pass it off as my own, but I definitely agree. LB has been overrecruited, WR underrecruited and Cam is more RR LB than Hoke LB

01/27/2011 - 1:22pm I feel the opposite. They

I feel the opposite. They seemed to have targeted guys in talent rich areas. Willingham's HS in Colorado is a huge talent producer, Hoke went out to Cali and Texas to keep his name alive out west and he went after Clark and possibly Cardale Jones from Glenville. He's also establishing a lot of relationships locally.  Guys like Clark and Willingham are good players who I'd like to sign, but I don't think they were picked coincidentally. There were other guys out there.

01/27/2011 - 1:17pm Oh well, we weren't likely to

Oh well, we weren't likely to get Mcclure after he didn't like the cold. However, the idea that "we didn't need any more CBs, even Mcclure" is completely ridiculous. We are still pretty thin on DBs. We have 6 guys between FS and the 2 CB slots before freshmen. Brown and Carter are likely to RS, probably Taylor too unless we need the depth and ST play. Countess will probably contribute somewhat in year 1, at least enough to not RS and Hollowell can cover right now, but is tiny and can't help in base sets, maybe not on STs either. I'm not huge on Talbott and either Chritian or Floyd is going to play a lot of FS. That means Mcclure probably had a good shot to be a top 4 CB on this roster. Either he or Countess was going to be in there and I'd have liked to have the competition at least. Plus Woolfolk is gone after this year, so starting caliber CBs are a must.. 


I know we need DL, but any DL we get isn't going to play a ton. Roh,Martin and RVB are going to start and Black and Wilkins will back up at DE along with maybe Watson and one of the freshmen we already have. Ash,Washington,Campbell and Talbott are in front of them for PT at DT and those guys are mostly young too. Not that I mind stocking up on depth and sure, I'd like to add Cooper, but next year's class is going to be DL heavy and we have enough guys for this year(plus 2-3 of our freshman DL will redshirt,Heitzman,Rock and maybe Beyer). Long term depth is not the problem. We'll get our OLs, most likely Bryant and one more OT whether Nowicki or Fisher or maybe even Flavin.

01/26/2011 - 5:50pm Frost just got bumped to a 5

Frost just got bumped to a 5 star after dominating a couple of all star games(Clowney was out in one, but still, he was the best palyer in that game). Poole is nice and probably underrated, but he's not the elite player Frost can be. 

01/26/2011 - 5:48pm I'd love to see Smith leave

I'd love to see Smith leave as well as maybe one slot WR, though I want to keep both Dileo and Gallon so it may not be feasible. I would also prefer than Brandon Gibbons and Brandon HAwthorne left the program while Leach and Watson were not invited back. I wouldn't be this cruel to force them out, but as far as what is best for UM football, these guys would ideally leave. We need depth at different positions and I want Hoke to be able to add as many guys as needed in this class and the next that fit into his program. 

01/26/2011 - 5:45pm I think we lead for Barnett

I think we lead for Barnett if the visit goes well. He went to Miami and seems to have pretty well backed of Arkansas, especially with 2 other TEs in their class. We are moving to a TE heavy offense, we don't have anyone blocking him and we have top recruiters who should have us as an elite program sooner than later

01/25/2011 - 5:29pm Nobody saw Cissoko going all

Nobody saw Cissoko going all criminal either, thats what really sucks. We knew guys like Dorsey would not get in, but Cissoko should have been a stud. RR would have probably had his job if he and Warren hadn't been so stupid and Troy didn't get hurt. Troy,Warren and Cissoko as our starting backfield with guys like Floyd,Avery and Rogers (Plus VINOPAL!) becoming backups at best would have made for a very nice unit. The front 7 was actually good enough for a solid D, but the back 5 that couldn't cover or tackle left them hanging too often. Martin,Roh,Demens,RVB,C.Gordon isn't too bad. 

01/25/2011 - 5:27pm Great, we're on path to lose

Great, we're on path to lose Countess,Mcclure and Raven. Made worse by the fact that we signed Carter and Taylor! 

01/25/2011 - 5:26pm shitty, I want Mcclure. Maybe

shitty, I want Mcclure. Maybe he's not coming because Ray  Drew is coming and bringing his boy Avery Walls! Haha, totally kidding. 


in all seriousness, I think we'll sign these 8 - Fisher,Bryant,Cooper,Willingham,Clark,Poole,Barnett,Rawls. If we don't get Barnett, throw the FB in. No thanks on QB. If we get Mcclure, Clark or Rawls gets dropped maybe. Kennedy can be 3rd QB for this season, he works hard and is pro style. If it comes to that we are screwed either way. Take 1 or 2 in next year's class or stash Cardale Jones at JUCO, lol

01/25/2011 - 5:19pm Roh is definitely a DB. We

Roh is definitely a DB. We have a ton of depth now in the back 7, as I expect a lot of RR's young reruits to step up. Deciding who is a LB,S or CB will be the tough part. I see this. 

RDE- Roh - Wilkins - Beyer - Paskorz

UT - MArtin - (Van Bergen) - Ash - Talbott

NT Washington v.Campbell - (Ash) (and maybe Cooper)

LDE Van Bergen - Black - Watson - Rock(RS, moved to DT) - Heitzman(RS?)

WLB - Furman vs. Mike Jones -  K.Jones/Hawthorne/Poole

MLB Demmens - Bell - Morgan(Ryan)

SLB Fitzgerald vs. Jake Ryan (Bell and Willingham also in mix to start possibly as well as loser of weakside battle) - clark

CB Woolfok,Avery,Floyd,Christian,Countess,Hollowell,Brown,Taylor(maybe Mcclure)

S Kovacs,C.Johnson and M.Robinson will compete for the 2 starting spots in the base D. Either Floyd,Christian or possibly Vinopal(shudder!) will come into the FS spot on obvious pass downs. Woolfolk is arguably best at FS, but he's our best CB by far, so he HAS to stay IMO. backups at S are Vinopal,T.Gordon,M.Williams,T.Carter,G.Brown and loser of the competition to start. 

01/24/2011 - 1:48pm Kinda wish we didn't  take

Kinda wish we didn't  take T.Carter and TAylor both

01/24/2011 - 1:18pm Mcclure has a relationship

Mcclure has a relationship with Hall actually.


I think we take 20, maybe 21 in this class. We have some holes to fill and we want to get guys into the program. Its possible a guy like Leach won't get a 5th year out of the deal, but we'll have to see. I don't wish it on him, but sometimes its reality. I think we are better off landing a full class this year and going with 15-18 next year. Its a quality class and we won't need depth too badly. We should be able to get a really elite class even if small. We'll probably redshirt a bunch of guys this year, so they'll be frosh next year anyways. We want to get them in the program though. Get some vets in the mix who can set the standard.


As far as WR, the new offense makes for a lot of changes. A). We will use less WRs, which we all know, but B). We will use bigger WRs in the WCO. That could mean 2 guys go to WR that aren't there now and I'm talking about Ricardo Miller(rumored to TE of course) and Cam Gordon(look how many LBs we have signed). Cam would probably best used as a possession WR type. He could be a starter for his last 2 years here after all the vets leave next year. He can refine his game and get back into WR mode, learn the WCO etc.  this year. Playing D should give him a nasty disposition that will be nice to see in a possession WR. Miller could be either, but even if he's a TE, he'll probably be on the field with another TE at the same time, so it will still negate the need for an extra WR often times. That would leave us with Jackson,Stokes,Williamson,Dileo,Robinson,Gallon(could be a good one, maybe Harvin lite type) plus Gordon and Miller. Add a guy or 2 next year and I have to think we'd be ok. I do think, if we have a scholly left at the end, we might take a guy like Lucien at the last minute no NSD

Though I'd never oversign or cut guys just to do it, in my fantasy world V.Smith,Dileo,Gibbons and Leach would be gone. V.Smith can probably go start for 2 years at a school like Appalachian or another FCS spread school. His career is over at UM for the most part, so its in his best interest. Open up a few scholles, dump a few RR offense guys, an extra K and a 5th year 2 star LB who has no value to us. Again, i'm not this cruel in real life, haha.

01/24/2011 - 12:49pm Guys, the scholarships have

Guys, the scholarships have long been known to be uneven. RR came in and stocke up on offense so he could run his scheme, which he was mainly hired for. This required a lot more WRs than we had(not only did we not have enough WRs for the spread, we didn't have enough for a pro set), some RBs who fit the scheme and of course spred style QBs liek Denard,Tate and Gardner. OL is always going to be recruited of course. So anyways, this year and possibly even next year were going to be used to even things out to some degree. We would have taken a few more O guys with RichRod, like Hart and a WR or 2, but D had to be the focus.


Also lost on this is how bad our STs are. Young DBs cannot tackle and make terrible STers and this is what we were stuck with last year. I think they are recruiting an extra LB or 2(include Heitzman here because he can play ST coverage) because young LBs may be a little more bulked up and ready to play STs. Jones,Morgan and Clark all fit the mold of quality STers IMO.

01/23/2011 - 6:46pm No Mcclure quotes, but

No Mcclure quotes, but apparently Clark texted Willingham that they'd be roommates next year.

01/23/2011 - 6:44pm Anyone else hear that Clark

Anyone else hear that Clark texted Willingham after the visit "Aw man, we're gonna be roomates next year" or something close to that?

01/23/2011 - 3:39pm sounds like they want Cooper

sounds like they want Cooper pretty bad. They were in home with him when visiting Countess and now MAttison is calling him up. Come on Coop!

While I'd like a DT in this class, we can live without one too, as there is a surplus next year and we will still have Ash,Talbott,Washington and Campbell around plus maybe Rock. I really want us to steal that DT from Illinois, name escaping me right now, in addition to the kid from Detroit CC(Martin replacement!)

01/23/2011 - 3:37pm I really think we'll get

I really think we'll get Mcclure and Willingham, I'm not even that worried. MAttison has been in Willingham's ear and Mcclure has been recruited by Hokef or 2 years. Does he really think his future is better served playing for Tedford or Neuheisel than Hoke? Being friends with Leon Hall can't hurt us either. Willingham's other offers are pretty unimpressive, none are in UM's league if you ask me and he dropped A and M where his best friend went.

With those 2 hopefully in tow, I'll be curious to see who els we can get, beyond the Frank Clark types. I could see us stealing someone like Zettel or even Drew at DE  to be honest, or Cooper,Heyward or Jernigan at DT.

Glad we aren't going to take a WR(unless of course the class is short players at the last minute), we need the spots. Load up on D and OL. Not sure we even need Rawls, as we hae RBs.

01/22/2011 - 4:46pm Chill out on the 3 star

Chill out on the 3 star criticism guys, we aren't going to get a great class given the timing of our coaching hire. Gotta fill it out with depth at positions of need. Hope for 3-4 4 stars and take our pick of the 3 stars that are left.

Hopefully Heitzman is a blocking TE, I don't think he's what we need at DE really, though I'd live if that were the case. We don't have any blocking TEs really and they are needed in Hoke's offense. Miller is moving to TE most likely and should be a stud, but he's more Antonio Gates type than anything else.