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Being Michigan fans they're…

Being Michigan fans they're probably smart enough to lie low until something else gets SEC Guy's attention. 

I was born and grew up…

I was born and grew up around SEC football, went to [by some loose definitions] an SEC school long before having anything to do with Michigan, and am pretty much done with ever wishing anything good to the SEC as a whole. Yeah sure Vanderbilt gets a lot of money from the league (until Superleague happens) but it's not worth it for decades of playing in that ethical cesspool. 

Only thing in the video that didn't ring true: the SEC guy says "Cheaters!" but for some reason tongues of fire don't come down from heaven to turn him to ash for his hypocrisy. I don't get that part.

IIRC I started listening to…

IIRC I started listening to the podcast sometime while in the admissions process for my master's program at U-M around 2008-09. I didn't care terribly much about the Big Ten (always found U-M at least tolerable in their arrogance) but it was such a well done podcast that it drew me into caring about Michigan. And this was early to mid Rich Rod, some of the worst seasons in a long time. 

"Yea Alabama" cals for the…

"Yea Alabama" cals for the team to "send the Yellow Jackets to a watery grave." It's notable both because Tech left the SEC in the 60s, I think?, but also because Georgia and GT are the only schools mentioned.

I like the historical weirdness anyway. Does "champions of the West" pass muster for currency because Michigan could get an unfavorable NCAA basketball regional site? (Yeah, I know it's the predecessor to the BT and all.)

Also is that the "M Fanfare"…

Also is that the "M Fanfare" you linked for Michigan or the full version of the Victors?

(My first game as a grad student in Ann Arbor, someone asked "Do you know the words?" And I thought they meant all that preamble because... who doesn't know the words to the chorus? I forget that not everyone grew up caring about college football.)

I've never in my life heard the full version sung but I melt on those rare occasions when broadcasts of Michigan games don't go to commercial for a late-game time out and we get to hear the whole thing.

Interesting. I like the…

Interesting. I like the original better; sports are all about satisfying our bloodlust with fake-violence anyway. May as well be honest with ourselves.

Apparently they merged in the second verse: 

Bow down to Washington, bow down to Washington,
Hardy are the men who wear the purple and gold;
Joyously we welcome you within the vanquished fold;
Bring the Golden Bear from his mighty lair,
For we’re going to hang his carcass in the northland.

UC-Berkeley's obviously not at their best nowadays but it probably resonates with native Northwesterners in the face of the CA invasion.

Yeesh, I feel bad for Shorty…

Yeesh, I feel bad that Shorty can't just enjoy this and instead feels dread, and don't feel at all on the fence, but voting this OP to  a -8 seems a bit cruel for someone who went to both schools and wants to connect with half his family.

(And I'm the guy who was pissing off his wife in December thinking about how sad it is when Christmas lights come down so I know melancholy.)

Oh, wait, doesn't like the playoff, in favor of split titles... yeah. That explains the downvotes.

The music makes me think a…

The music makes me think a bit of Gilbert and Sullivan. 

I've always thought "Bow…

I've always thought "Bow Down to Washington" would be really good for those Presidents races they do between innings at Nationals Park. 

You call that racing, Tom? Try dropping that big stick next time, Teddy. Bow down to George!

I dunno, in 1915 donning…

I dunno,

  • in 1915 donning bells was pretty badass,
  • UW's fighting blood doesn't just do the minimum. It excels!
  • Most notably the Allies apparently lost 80,000 men before giving up on the Dardenelles. And UW is even harder than that to push over the line!
Yeah, it seems contrary to…

Yeah, and it seems inherent to the nature sports not to have one you prefer over the other. I'm proud of UW's season but hope U-M slaughters them. If 2-9 Vanderbilt somehow played 11-0 Michigan I'd passionately hope for the Dores to finish 3-9. None of this painting my face in both teams' colors or sewing two half-sweatshirts together, although I did consider digging out some UW gear one day just to confuse my neighbors this week.

Not to be condescending... .OK let's not kid ourselves, it's condescending, but UW could relish having had an amazing season as the #2 team in the country, whereas we all know what the narrative will be if U-M loses.

Hey Shorty, 

I've got…

Hey Shorty, 

I've got degrees from both and am really proud of the amazing job the Dawgs did this season. In terms of a surprise it's even more impressive than U-M's season. 

 

To answer your question: 

2019 Vanderbilt-Michigan baseball final was my absolute high point, and I watched with a bunch of friendly Michigan alumni in Chicago. A couple of Real Madrid-Liverpool finals are the only other thing I've got.

I used to get a laugh out of…

I used to get a laugh out of some alums when I lived in Seattle with my version:

"Fight fight fight for Washington State!

Try not to lose too bad." 

 

Hell I went to Vanderbilt before U-M and UW so I shouldn't be throwing stones at anyone.

They seem to do only the…

"Victory for Washington"

They seem to do only the first line of "Bow Down" after TDs followed by "Victory for Washington" by after the PAT, right? But I'm just going by memories of a few games and what I can catch on TV.

Two of the best. I love the…

Two of the best. I love the Dardenelles reference, which also dates it. No one will be surprised to know they don't play the whole thing as often as the MMB plays "The Victors," but I really hate that they only play the first line disintegrating into whatever that is, and I guess "Victory to Washington" after extra points, so on TV you barely get to hear the full "Bow Down."

This has been surreal. My…

This has been surreal. My two grad schools are the two best football schools in the land. (Undergrad? No so good, 2-10. You can't ask for everything I guess.) 

The week I got accepted into a program at Washington in 2012, I ran into Phil Brabbs in my church in Ann Arbor. We had a laugh over my "defection to the enemy," the one he's remembered for beating.

But in truth these things stack chronologically, and Michigan will always be my second team with UW third. Anyway UW grad students don't really follow football. In a 3 semester master's at Michigan I went to more games than 6 years at UW. So no doubt who I'm cheering for even though I'm proud of both of them and maybe glad to have the freeroll. 

We can all get excited about…

We can all get excited about Morehead State leading Clemson by 2 and the ball with 33 seconds left. The regional final will be in Nashville or Ann Arbor if this result holds.

 

Final 68-64 Morehead State. This is the part where I seize upon this tiny sample of data to say even with only 5 NCAA entrants I knew the ACC was overrated all along.

Agreed with all that and…

Agreed with all that and there's circumstantial evidence this may be a trend with Stackhouse. Last year Torvik has us 93rd through Jan 31 and 43rd after it. Year before that, 2021, 139th through end of January, 67th thereafter. 

Of course Jerry played 18 years in the NBA and coached for 4 in various pro ball capacities. I sorta wonder if that's influencing how he perceives the development of a season. 

Ken Pomeroy weights for recency, so I assume Torvik and NET do as well. However, it seems plausible that some coaches or programs might have a stronger time trend than others.

With degrees from VU and U-M…

With degrees from VU and U-M I would liked for this next matchup to have happened in Vegas, but it'll be fun regardless and certainly will be more motivating for us.

You might have heard the story in a nutshell on Selection Sunday: basically Vanderbilt is an affront (or at least a natural experiment) to all the predictive metrics. Michigan is probably favored, no? I'd chalk it up to good luck for VU, winning close games, except the time trend is so clear and so typical of Stackhouse. 

Jerry kept a key player (Lawrence) out of the Alabama game in Tuscaloosa to make a point. The team got drilled by 57 points, which probably destroyed our final NET by 15 places or something. But then, we finished 10-2 with a bunch of close and fairly impressive wins (esp. Kentucky twice, once at Rupp). NET isn't supposed to be a primary factor in selection, but it's pretty clearly disqualifying below a certain point. We had the résumé of a 10-seed a decade ago -- finish strong, win big games on the road and neutral sites.

Anyway this is relevant still because 

  • If you think recency matters for some teams more than others, Vanderbilt might be pretty good.
  • If you think winning close games relects something about a team besides unsustainable luck, ditto.
  • If you think it's all down to luck and we're just seeing patterns in random data because it suits us, Michigan should be heavy favorites. 

https://xkcd.com/904/ 

 

Honestly like this is why I…

Honestly like this is why I love Brian (as a Vanderbilt/Michigan fan). Not many of Vandy's fans could have named a single player until about 2004. Hopefully (after losing tonight) Michigan leverages this tournament run to years of success and baseball becomes part of MGB's front page fare.

 

Fielding Yost : Dan McGugin :: Tim Corbin : Erik Bakich

Exactly. I suppose you could…

Exactly. I suppose you could make a highly speculative case that Michigan's institutional resources/commitment could mean taking another path to get here. But there was nothing about Vanderbilt baseball in 2003 to suggest this was in the future. And as Corbs said, without Bakich as his right-hand man it might not have happened.

Most Vanderbilt fans would…

Most Vanderbilt fans would say that Bryce Drew ended up being revenge for Bryce Drew.

This has been a dream for me…

This has been a dream for me to have my two favorite programs playing for it. Besides that I'm thrilled to see Bakich get a shot against his mentor, even though I'm cheering for the mentor.

The VU radio announcer (Joe Fisher) said tonight that Corbin had played an instrumental role in recommending Bakich to U-M. I wasn't aware of that, or had forgotten.

What's the feeling there about Bakich?

As an alumnus of Vanderbilt (undergrad) and Michigan (master's) I was really happy for Erik to get the job there. What's the perception of the job he's done so far there? (I'm guessing fairly positive, but I haven't really been following U-M baseball closely.)

Here

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/muppets-what-history

 

Post #3 seems to be the most accurate, except for spelling.

If it makes you happier, it's not one double elimination tourn

The double elimination tournament is over. Michigan won. Maryland also won their double elimination tournament.

The SEC went even crazier this year: First day single elim, then double elim, then semifinals and finals are single elim. In practice fewer games is preferable to tiring the staffs out and not having any TV coverage of the deciding second game.

It's horribly crude--full double elim is still haphazard, heck, the MLB playoffs are haphazard--but no more arbitrary than the NCAA tournament. You might breeze through your regional but then it's a clean slate; you might then get knocked out 2-1 in the SR by a team that also lost in their regional.

Great to see!

One game from the automatic NCAA bid. I'm a fan of Erik Bakich as well as U-M so I'm hoping he gets the job done and gets us in position for at large berths in future years.

Congrats to softball. Today can we get some baseball coverage?

I'm a little biased toward baseball because of Bakich's Vanderbilt connection (he was an assistant under Corbin), but U-M is just two games from making it to the NCAA tournament.

Careful with the Stanford ass-kicking machine

My other alma mater, Vanderbilt, thought they'd hired the creator of the ass-kicking machine, or at least the guy who built a defense kept shutting down Oregon. It hasn't gone well so far. Fortunately, Tolbert hasn't been part of David Shaw's staff, since it seems Shaw is not good at mentoring assistants.

Fair enough, and I must add one word of advice:

Never count out Touchdown Tom.

College sports = really bad place to look for karmic justice

No evil deed goes unrewarded.

Pelini over Mullen?!?

Seems crazy. I'm surprised at the number of Michigan fans who apparently don't factor in the difficulty of recruiting at Mississippi State. State's gone 6-2, 3-5, and 4-4 in the SECW, which matches up against 5-3, 5-3, and 7-1 in the B1G, but State has done it with a worse recruiting base because Mississippi gets eviscerated by all the neighboring SEC schools.

Worst coach in the SEC West from March to New Year's

is Les Miles. Give everyone in the division exactly the same talent level and Les's lack of clock management and taste for weird negative-expectation gambles probably sinks him.

But wait! He won a national championship! And went to another NCG (against a Bama team LSU had already beaten)!

That does count for quite a bit, but recall too that 2007 was the flukiest confluence of events to get LSU into the championship game. More to the point, LSU is often very good because they recruit extremely well. Most good recruiters would do well in Louisiana, but Miles has done extremely well. That is part of the coaching package, and you have to give Miles credit for it. It more than makes up for his game-day coaching.

His program develops this talent well too, but so does everyone in the SEC West, so that's at best a wash.

NFL

I noticed a little bit of a self-censoring halt in the answer about the swim lane charts, about how some coaches are preparing for bowls now, or... oh, other things. (Like the rest of the NFL season?)

It doesn't hold up to close scrutiny

For example, my alma mater (Vanderbilt) somehow managed to defy physics by swinging way to one side around 1940 and rarely crossing the halfway mark since then. ;-) So I consoled myself with the thought that inspirational rhetoric is what's needed now, not deep analysis of trends in college football.

OONTS/TZ

It's nice how the TS/TZ simulates a little hi-hat.

Bacon's book?

I thought I read somewhere (like an old post here) that Bacon's book strongly implied it was determined before the Gator Bowl that RR would not be back. I suppose he might have lost the team between the end of season and the bowl in a way that was obvious to the powers that be without needing a result, but that seems unlikely.

Give me a break

The Vanderbilt administration gave him a lot of heat for recruiting the kids that led to this incident--supposedly the Chancellor used to meet with him until this happened, then gave him the cold shoulder, strengthening his resolve to leave (which, to be clear, would have happened anyway).

I grant that the rest of the SEC is by and large an ethical cesspool but let's be careful with the broad brush.

As perhaps the only Vanderbilt fan here....

I really miss his competent coaching and appreciate what he did for us--good heavens, I can't tell you how much I miss his competent coaching--but I don't at all miss wondering when his lack of integrity would lead to something like this. He wants to always be the center of attention, which is understandable for a major CFB HC, but now he's got what he wished for.

Kelly HC at New Hampshire? What am I missing?

I see no evidence to support this assertion, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

Wikipedia lists him as OC at UNH until and including 2006, his last season before UO. This source checks out: On Aug. 15, 2006, UNH described him as "Chip Kelly, the associate head coach and offensive coordinator at the Univeristy [sic] of New Hampshire...."

This SBNation piece strongly implies that Sean McDonnell has been the UNH HC from 1999 to the present.

Am I missing something?

On the hot seat with fans....

On the hot seat because Miss State fans like most fans generally have an inflated view of their place in the CFB universe. I'm just curious, was there any indications he was really on the hot seat with the MSU administration?

As an SEC fan, I've always thought he did a stellar job.

Here ya go

Yes, just line in Wolken's article, but stated pretty flatly. And Wolken is pretty reliable.

Oops, missed that the article was linked above but here it is again: College football gold mine.

Coach in waiting?

But Chip Kelly was a I-AA coordinator before Oregon, right?

However, you make me wonder if Stitt could be lured with a handshake deal that he bides his time for a little bit and then is first up for the promotion if everything goes well.

I don't think it's really realistic because then you have to hire a HC who's close to retirement. But if Les Miles got enough flak in Baton Rouge this year and wanted to save the alma mater before hanging it up.... no, now I'm just being silly....

Are 2PC really 50/50?

That greatly changes this discussion. I thought they were more like 41/59 on average.

Of course, for Oregon or Auburn they might well be 50/50, and for Michigan or Vanderbilt they might be 30/70.

Don't worry

He's not. As always, unsubstantiated. In the SEC they're pretty good about not leaving an audit trail.

Great coach though.

Ability and ethics

Mullen is a fantastic coach. Miss State fans, like Ole Miss, So Carolina, Vanderbilt, Arkansas, indeed, like most fans, all think their school occupies a higher place in the pecking order than it does. Starkville is just a dystopian college town in the middle of the cow pastures, very hard to recruit to, and they split a low-population state with the more popular Ole Miss who actually plays in a town you might want to spend an afternoon in (and is closer to Memphis).

Around the SEC there are strong hints that Miss State cheats (as does most of the SEC), all unsubstantiated, so... make of that what you will.

My first allegiance is to an SEC school so I feel like I have a foot in both camps here.

Lot more legitimate things

Agreed 100% on that last point. And good post in general. I'm just interested in understanding the game better, not adding to Hoke's bill of particulars, which is plenty long without game theory's help.

Game theory

Glad to have something to take my mind off the Hoke/Brandon mess.

I agree that down 23 very late in the game, you should go for two early. However, I disagree with, "always do everything as quickly as possible." The down-23 logic only holds because it's very very unlikely that you can win if the opponent scores anything else after you're down 16. If your team somehow got down 23-0 in the first quarter, you would want to take the +EV option (in points), which for most teams is to kick it.

I guess something like late in the 3rd quarter down 23 with a decent offense (but still well below 50% to make a 2PC) could be a borderline case--it depends on if you think there's a reasonable chance you can give up more points and still win.

Somebody check my reasoning here, please.

HIPAA

Although I skipped pages 3, 4, and 5, one question I didn't see answered is whether the University can say anything about Morris's concussion status under HIPAA. I'm not suggesting they want to be transparent; I'm saying, even if they did, their hands might be tied.

"we're confident proper medical decisions were made" -- sounds like HIPAA vagueness.

But they do mention the leg injury, so perhaps that's in a different category or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. Does anyone know?

Interesting, yet...

Even if it turns out he wasn't concussed, though, letting him go back in the game without a concussion test seems criminal.

Hell, even if Dr. Hoke somehow knew he wasn't concussed by sight, letting a guy with a leg injury so bad that the announcers think he's dazed go back in the game is irresponsible, isn't it?