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11/19/2018 - 11:10am Nitpick:

There are…


There are penalties that are called based on intent.  Those penalties involve interference with a referee. 

When a player runs into a referee on the field or sideline, I think they assess the intent to determine if there is a penalty. Players throwing the ball back sometimes miss the ref a bit.  It is only called if the ref thinks there was a delay of game intent there.

It is not strict liability like jumping offside.

THAT SAID, I think under the context, the referee should not have BELIEVED the Indiana player at all.  I mean. C'mon. Look at the facts around the kick.


11/13/2018 - 10:25am I don't think so.

OSU holds…

I don't think so.

OSU holds the top spot for obvious reasons.

Notre Dame holds the second spot because we compete with them for richest history all time and academically.  Football was a HUGE part of the Ivy League, etc.  ND and UM are the only two academically elite, longtime football power house schools that remain.  Plus, it is likely the series resumes in the future.

MSU is third because, while and in-state rival, most of the time they are a lackluster rival. They have had a great run for 10 years, but that does not change much. They are 19-16 over the last three years and the only way they have beaten UM under Harbaugh has been freak conditions.

PSU. They could be on the list, but they already have their own rivals.

So, overall, the last 10 years don't override decades. I mean, maybe you think Purdue and Ohio State is a big rivalry now? 

Don't get too caught up in the "moment." The beauty of college football is the tradition, the rivalries, the history.


11/09/2018 - 12:32pm (No subject)


11/02/2018 - 2:10pm Circles here?

And why did…

Circles here?

And why did the betting make such a dramatic shift.... THAT is the question.

11/01/2018 - 11:27am Michigan fans should root…

Michigan fans should root for Alabama to lose to LSU, because that would make it at least possible that Alabama could be upset twice and thereby left out of the CFP.

This really confuses me.  

I think you lay out a good argument that it might not matter whether LSU beats Bama for UM's chances to make the playoff. Fine.

But, to argue we should pull for LSU to win because that means Bama might get 2 losses and be left out?? well..... if Bama can only beat tomato cans and losses 2 of their last 4 once playing good competition, then why is it great Bama is left out? They might not be good in that event.

Your post seems premised on the notion that Bama is the best team in the country.... but then you spend the post explaining why a 1-loss Bama team wouldn't make the playoff...

10/30/2018 - 10:36pm Hmm... I want to believe you…

Hmm... I want to believe you. But, this is the internet.

10/30/2018 - 8:22pm Why NU over Ohio State?

Why NU over Ohio State?

10/26/2018 - 9:03am Too much going on. The Joe…

Too much going on. The Joe may have been a dump but it was our dump. 

 That about sums it up for nostalgic people. You know the new arena is improved in SO MANY fan friendly ways.  It just doesn't have the memories....and the teams CURRENTLY suck.

Your post has almost nothing to do with evaluating the new arena fairly.  Just an emotional vent for the old place.


10/22/2018 - 2:08pm Seek help.

The narrative…

Seek help.

The narrative that you mention does not exist outside Spartan message boards.

Who cares about MSU now? So many more important games to go from here.  The only people thinking about MSU/UM next year live in East Lansing.

You are either some kind of closet MSU fan or you spend a bunch of time on MSU message boards and they warped your brain. Do something else.

10/22/2018 - 1:34pm Yeah. I know. Noon games…

Yeah. I know. Noon games kickoff a little later than 12:00. 3:30 games kick a little after 3:30.

I was just going with the time slots that we are familiar with from past ESPN/ABC announced times.

10/15/2018 - 11:00pm I think the 2016 was a… I think the 2016 was a decisive win. I dont think the garbage time drive allowed them to be "defeated with dignity", do you?
10/15/2018 - 11:00pm I think the 2016 was a… I think the 2016 was a decisive win. I dont think the garbage time drive allowed them to be "defeated with dignity", do you?
10/02/2018 - 4:30pm Hi guys,

Devil's advocate…

Hi guys,

Devil's advocate here.  I am completely baffled by the calls of current refs and I know that refs generally give the benefit to home teams.  (At least there was a study on it.) This might explain Michigan's poorish road performances. BUT...

I am wondering if the assumption that better defensive pass rushers are held more is solid. 

Is it POSSIBLE that some of this chart can be explained this way:

Michigan gets so many sacks BECAUSE their technique and/schemes don't allow them to be "held" by the offense as much?  Maybe it means they have great technique in using their hands to break off blocks.  This graph lines up with the Mattison era teaching DL technique. Also, we seem to be able to plug in guys like Uche, Paye, etc. and get great pressure. So, it could be coaching on how to avoid or break off holds?  Or, maybe it means that the Dr. Blitz schemes get guys through without as much OL contact? You can get a lot of sacks with little holding if the defense gets where they need to go before the offense can grab them.

Also, PART of it might be explained by the beating Michigan puts on teams.  Maybe the refs don't call as many holds later in the game because the defense is already smothering the opposing offense.  They SHOULDN'T do that, but it might be more of a "mercy" thing than a bias against UM.  (like not calling pass interference when a team up big throws a deep ball.)

Anyways, enough devil's advocate stance. 


Beat Maryland!

05/14/2018 - 1:12pm Fact

I couldn't agree more with your statement that "However, and this is just my opinion, the decision whether to attend a top tier insitution for an undergraduate degree should include some measure of financial consideration."

True. Very True.

Also, private schools do have more funding options.  

I think the biggest reason for your kids findings are because of the need for out of state students on their campuses.  How many Michigan kids apply to a single college in Texas? And that schol wants to be national and have a diverse background for classroom and vanity reasons. Some schools even have guidelines for who they want to accept (i.e., Washington State may want at least 10 kids a year from Michigan or Ohio... if there are only a few dozen applicants in a given year from that state and most of those are kids who will likely stay in Michigan or Ohio...well... they start throwing money.

05/14/2018 - 1:12pm Fact

I couldn't agree more with your statement that "However, and this is just my opinion, the decision whether to attend a top tier insitution for an undergraduate degree should include some measure of financial consideration."

True. Very True.

Also, private schools do have more funding options.  

I think the biggest reason for your kids findings are because of the need for out of state students on their campuses.  How many Michigan kids apply to a single college in Texas? And that schol wants to be national and have a diverse background for classroom and vanity reasons. Some schools even have guidelines for who they want to accept (i.e., Washington State may want at least 10 kids a year from Michigan or Ohio... if there are only a few dozen applicants in a given year from that state and most of those are kids who will likely stay in Michigan or Ohio...well... they start throwing money.

05/14/2018 - 10:57am Not sure your assumption is solid

While your conclusion is that "colleges and universities in Michigan behave like they have a captive pool of applicants; and they probably do"... it is strange that you think this has to do with Michigan schools thinking their applicant base is different than other states.  Nothing in your post supports THAT being the reason it shook out that way. In fact, many people from out of state come to be students at Michigan schools. And students form Michigan go out of state.  Nobody seems to be thinking or acting as a "captive pool."

It seems more likely that the difference is in some other factor. It might be influenced by gender (as someone below points out) or the particular schools. My guess is that your son did not apply to as many prestigous schools as your daughter (based on their scores).  In my experience the highest level (John Hopkins, UM, Ivy League, etc.) are SUPER competitive nationally and scholarship money is hard to come by (other than need based).  However, the "good tier" of schools is really really trying to get the applicant scores they need to ascend up the ranks.  They will pay to make themselves look better. (And there are more of those "good" level schools than elite schools.)

Adding to that is that "good schools" in other states have to work hard to get kids from other states, like Michigan. They look for a diverse student body geographically too. You son also had that advantage when applying.  (On the other hand, elite schools have a much, much easier time with that.)

BTW - Congrats to both of them!


04/09/2018 - 6:06pm So...

Yeah... That begs the question. What will he be doing?

Reviewing what the investigators and counsel find to determine how it will play at trial?

His title is "lead counsel" and he is leading the advocacy with respect to the investigations and numerous lawsuits (and large settlements) that MSU faces.

How is he "superbly qualified" to do that? You would think you should choose someone who is used to coordinating multiple attorneys or invstigators.  Maybe someone with experience doing that at a law firm?

The only thing he is subperbly qualified for is the be an arbitrator, judge, etc.

I don't have time to explain the differences in roles to you, but just because someone has experience in one role in the law does not make them "superbly qualified" to manage another role.  (For example, a judge may adjudicate numerous traffic/criminal cases, but that doesnt make him a qualified police officer.)

He was appointed for political weight. That is all.

04/09/2018 - 4:32pm Superbly qualified?

I have read his opinions in the past and, while I am familiar with how some people view him, I don't get the sense he is judge who just takes knee-jerk reaction political positions. He seems smart and thoughtful (whether you agree with him or not).

However, I do not think sitting on the Michigan Supreme Court makes him "superbly qualified"... it does make him a bit of a legal superstar though.  

In fact, his history on the bench s not experience in advocacy on behalf of clients. He is presented legal briefs and arguments by attorneys, but his role did not include zealous advoacy or the minutia of trial work.

His career on the Supreme Court qualifies him to work at a law firm as a recognizable name (client draw), as a well-connected representative (name on a brief), and as a fine reviewer of appellate briefs, etc. (oversight).

His day-to-day ability to be lead counsel is unkown.

The real issue is that both Young and Engler are "big names" who don't really offer much in the way of practical experience. They are both serving because of the political capital, not because of any particular skill. 

They look like PR hires.  And, itheir past statements should have been looked at in that light. But, MSU appears tone deaf again.

04/09/2018 - 4:16pm What?

But what we see on this board, week after week, are allegations of one particular political party tolerating a “rape culture”

Seriously? I come to this site A LOT and it does not seem like sex assault is a political issue. It is almost always an issue of abuse of power in a sexual way. Both sides have that same power and abose it the same way.

It's odd that an attorney, who should be able to seperate sexual assualt issues from politics, is the one baselessly claimining that other people are really the ones who make it political week after week here.



04/09/2018 - 10:11am Political?

I think you can discuss court cases without getting political. In fact, I think the article focuses on the allegations in the cases and the rulings without much reference to political views. 

Court is one of the few places where you can get into the details of a specific incident. Where you might be able to get past political dispositions. At some point, every conservative judge must admit there are valid claims by certain plaintiffs (often admitting so informally with an emphasis on settling). And, every liberal judge faces a frivolous lawsuit that has to be kicked out of court.

Discuss the cases. Don't discuss the politics.

03/13/2018 - 2:28pm Misleading title
It doesn't sound like Ole Miss is doing anything wrong.
The NCAA is the one that has to send OM the packet. That is what triggers the clock accorindg to NCAA rules.
OM isn't keeping anything at a stanstill. Unsurprisingly, it is the NCAA.
03/09/2018 - 6:57pm Good point on the otehr locations

Whether affluent or not, doctors can always help the poor and other people even with conceirge medicine.

As for stratified healthcare, well, we have had that FOREVER in this country. Any non-government free market (even if most people are paid by government funds) will give better stuff to richer people.

The only way to mitigate that is universal health care. AND, that would not eliminate it.  Only mitigate it.  There would still be some inequality.

(Many public goods are not equal. Government run schools and roads are better in priavet areas. Even the military and military contrators are awarded based on connections and an uneven playing field.)

The only way to minimize this is that universal health care idea.


Personally, I am for universal health care, but we have a free market. And, as such I don't see anything unethical with concierge medicine.  This is what you get when medicine is private. Accept it or change it.  Don't just complaint that it is "unethical" but keep supporting the system.....


03/09/2018 - 2:01pm Completely at odds?

I think that is a bit of an over-statement.  Some medical ethics support the idea of not rushing patients through visits, being more readily available for appointments, building a personal relationship that might help you notice lifestyle/other issues that may impact health, etc.

On the other hand, there is the ethical concern of treating all patients and the poor as well. That is important.

It seems like an ethical quandry and not clear cut. 

Plus, it seems odd that the ethical concern of treating the poor would have so much more weight than other ethical considerations.... in the environment of a top-tier research hospital primarily serving a mostly affluent population in a college town.  We're not talking about doctors that chose to work at a community hospital on the south side of Chicago here.

12/15/2017 - 9:05am Finally realized something

It just occurred to me that the media is "full on" trolling Mark Dantonio.  Dantonio has proven to be VERY insecure and childish about U of M.  Too easy to get him to squirm.

It's like the kid who everyone pokes fun at because he can't chill out.

The national media has their cheat sheet.  It was a bad joke/question, but will get a bunch of hits/clicks even though it was poorly executed.  It's like printing money for these guys.

12/05/2017 - 10:46pm neither am i.

However, if Peters doesn't stick around then he is afraid of competition. I expect Peters to win the job, but if he doesn't then UM will have a great QB.

When you think about it, there is never really a downside to competition and pushing each other.

11/28/2017 - 8:51am BS competition?

I am not sure it was a BS competition.  JOK probably knows the playbook and throws as well, but he just breaks down in game.  Maybe the coaches thought he was as good as Speight and just needed the light to click on while in game.  (Like the second half of Purdue.) 

Also, maybe they did it because Speight didn't push himself heading into spring and he had fallen off since last year.

Maybe the coaches always split all reps in spring/camp as a matter of meritocricy.

Was Speight looking bad earlier this year because he had to split snaps in spring practice or because he was resting on his laurels? Keep in mind that QBs can work with WRs whenever they want....

11/28/2017 - 8:06am lazy

pessimism does not equal realism

11/27/2017 - 6:34pm Instant classic.

This is a classic "feeling down" shit post. 


Arbitrary time frame? Check. (Why 5 years, why not the last two years?)

Heaping praise for something UM did? Check.  (A play away from CFP, huh?)

Anger about UM rivalry games? Check. (Like that OSU/Iowa game was anything other than a fluke.)


Iowa is a one-trick pony.  They have a uniquely, strong home field advantage, but they are a middling team.  Kirk Ferentz's ceiling is clear.


Ignore all the ways Michigan is significantly different/better than Iowa during Harbaugh's time, such as multiple top 25 finishes, wins/losses, ZERO bad losses (i.e., teams outside the top 25), etc.


Oh yeah, and Harbaugh is doing this all in his first few years with the odd/big holes in the roster left by Hoke...


But, whatever.  Your narrative makes you feel good for some reason, believe it.

11/27/2017 - 6:14pm economy?

The economy is no longer an excuse in Michigan or Metro Detroit. Things are good. If your business or line of work is failing, that is all you.

11/27/2017 - 4:01pm Iowa?

Really?  I get your self-loathing, but Iowa? 

We are not Iowa.

11/27/2017 - 3:59pm Stats to fit your argument

Michigan only beat one team with a record above 500.  Correct, but misleading.

Michigan lost to THREE current top 10 teams.  They hung in there and a couple came down to a backup QB late in the game.

They also lost to a top 20 team at home in the rain.

Otherwise, they didn't play many 7-5 or 8-4 type teams. 

Their schedule this year was REALLY hot or cold.  Not favorable.

Will it be as hot and cold next year?

11/27/2017 - 3:54pm Think about answering this in one year's time....

Close your eyes and imagine answering this question at the end of next year.

Michigan's two toughest road games were at #9 at night and #4.  Both games UM stuck around for half of the game (a little longer in the game later in the year versus #4)

Florida was bad, but that was neutral game.


So, how do OSU, MSU and ND look at this time next year?  OSU is sure to be top ten.  So, similar to one of this year's road games.  How about MSU and ND?  Hard to say.  Both have had inexplicably bas seasons and some good seasons where they equal OSU.  Neither have been as consistant as Wisco.


Do I think both MSU and ND finish next year in the top 10? No.  One might.  But, I think that they may both be top 20 teams.  So, if PSU at night this year is the same as OSU next year, do you think two top 20 road games is harder than a top 5 road game?


Good thread topic IMHO.

11/27/2017 - 3:45pm Really hard to say yet...

It all depends on who is coming back for the teams next year.  However, right now I say


1.  Notre Dame on road >> Florida in Jerryworld

The actual road envirinoment and better team make this one easy.


2.  MSU on the road = Wisconsin

This is being as optimistic about the Spartans as possible.  WIsconsin this year and last year have been much better than MSU the last couple of years. MSU could ascend next year to Wisco's level and this assumes that happens.  Plus, Camp Randell is just a tougher venue to play at.


3. OSU on the road at noon = PSU on the road at night

If these were both night games, then OSU would be harder.  But, they are not.  Always tough to win either place.



All of that said, the biggest change is the ND game.  BUT, that is the first game of the year and non-conference, so even if it doesn't go well, Michigan can overcome it over the course of the season.

11/04/2017 - 11:34pm Take care and enjoy life

This is the saddest thing I have ever read on this site. Godspeed.

10/20/2017 - 8:00am Rivalry games

Of course rivalry games don't count for more than regular games.... well, to anyone except fans. 

Its a personal thing.  But, not really the way to evaluate wins and losses.

Bo and Woody helped make OSU/UM a big rivalry because it was personal to them.  It became personal to the fan bases.

Dantonio has made the MSU/UM game personal to him.  While most in the state feel similarly, Michigan fans are slow to warm up to it as a personal rivalry.

Harbaugh is obviously a great coach with a great track record. The above shows he is well on his way at Michigan.

10/19/2017 - 4:29pm That is because

That is because he writes them thinking about Michigan's offense being really really bad.  Not so much how good the defense of the other team is doing.

Read the Indian Fee FI Foe Film. Ace compared us to the worst offensive team Indiana played.  It sounded like we would be lucky to get some first downs.  While Indiana has a good defense, it seemed like Michigan was going to need a miracle to score on them.... let alone rush for nearly 275 yards.


10/19/2017 - 3:37pm Spin

The author of this post is overly-worried and many of you are feeding off that bias.

Simply put, if we get the same offensive production as Iowa, then we likely win. 

You wouldn't know that from reading his post that makes PSU out to be an elite defense. 

It's all doom and gloom. It reads like a description of Alabama's defense.


  1. Iowa gained over SIX YARDS a play.  That is a fine performance and easily enough for Michigan to win.
  2. Iowa's yards per play was the highest PSU has given up so far this year.  The similar offensive styles might bode well for us. Iowa only tried 45 offensive plays and let their (much, much worse than UM) defense almost win them the game.
  3. Iowa score THREE touchdowns on offense.  If we score 3 TDs with our simlarly ranked offense and much better defense, most of us think we either win or are in it to the end.
  4. Wadley and the Iowa rushing attack are not nearly as good as our rushing attack (of course they do have the passing game advantage).
  5. Iowa missed a 30 - 39 yard field goal and failed to kick two extra points. 5 points we are not likely to leave on the board.

Iowa got good production out of relatively few offensive plays. They scored 3 TDs with a worse rushing attack.  Their offensive gameplan worked wonders against PSU given the strategy of... you know.... winning the game.

A review of the PSU defense against Iowa should make us feel better, but Ace sees only doom and gloom.  Oh well. He fits in well with many here.  The glass is half empty.

10/19/2017 - 2:17pm More to it...

Your take is similar to Brian's take.  But, its wrong.  The coaching staff is not giving JOK a "freshman gameplan."  They are giving him a "calm down" game plan.

The plays are designed to keep JOK from trying to make improv throws. It is geared toward run first and keep JOK from trying too hard to make big plays.  JOK still needs to know ALL the plays.

A "freshman gameplan" would be a much more limted set of the playbook.  Not just the passing plays, but ALL plays (pitches, reverses, etc.) are limited.  It wouldn't allow adjustments as much, it would probably be a max protect at all times.

That is not a minor difference.

If JOK knows 100 run plays and 100 pass plays, but the coaches limit it to 25 pass plays and a whole bunch of runs, that is one thing.  If needed (i.e., they are not leading) then the staff can expand on the pass plays too.

If the Peters knows 20 pass plays and 20 run plays, well..... that's it.

Plus, JOK has a lot more experience in the pocket, on the road, etc. when the ball is snapped.

That is why it is wrong to think the freshman gameplan is the same thing as the plan to keep JOK from turning the ball over if the running game is working.


10/19/2017 - 11:40am Hello?

Does anyone read Comments to the podcast post?

My "hot take" is that I think the passing game is failing because of the youth of the offense.  It's not just the QB.  I like JOK and think he CAN do well.  


However, the info that he gets really emotional/hot&cold/amped whatever is VERY troubling.  This offense needs a calm, cool collected leader until the rest of the youngins come around. JOK is a 5th year senior.  He needs to ACT LIKE IT.


That is all.

10/18/2017 - 2:48pm Sacks

I think you could look a little deeper at sack numbers. WHile UM and PSU have both given up 16. The trend is not in the same direction.


In Big Ten play, PSU has given up 4 sacks, 11 TFLs to Iowa, then 5 sacks, 11 TFLs to IU, and 5 sacks and 12 TFLs to NW.  They are getting worse as the year goes on into P5 play.  (Note that none of those teams have very good defenses).


Michigan did give up 4 sacks to Purdue, then 4 to MSU and then 0 to Indiana.  ALso, that MSU defense is probably the best out of all 6 conference opponents. 



10/18/2017 - 12:45pm Hold on

On your first point, JOK averaged higher than 5.7 YPA against MSU in the rain.  His IU performance was bad.  But, his overall average YPA is above or at least AT 5.6 (depending on whether you look at his whole career, include garbage time, etc.)

On your second point, I think PSU stacked the box last year.  If they didn't on the first drive, they adjusted soon thereafter. PLUS, with the big Michigan lead, they focused on stopping the run the rest of the game.  But, we still rolled up the yardage.

While the teams are a bit different, no doubt, there are strong similarities too.

10/17/2017 - 7:23pm Conjecture

So UM was saving the shovel play, but was forced to use it? Maybe you haven't paid attention, but Harbaugh pulls out plays like that against everybody.

And you think PSU would hold something back?

You know more than most people could dream about football.

10/17/2017 - 7:19pm Wrong and wrong

It opened at 12.5 on most Vegas books or at least 11.5.

Looking ahead? GameDay in town for a night game and revenge against the most venerable team in the league. The idea they would overlook UM is flat out insane.

Finally, the PSU fan base bets up the line as much as UM. You have two HUGE fanbases. This isn't UM fans moving the line against Purdue.

You so crazy.

10/17/2017 - 7:13pm Astute

Good observation. I agree.

10/17/2017 - 10:12am Blu

Bluinohio.  You are feeling Blu.  I get it.  You don't want to believe JOK could play well until you see it. (Even if he has shown some flashes in the past.)


Protect your own feelings.


Me, I would rather show support for the kid in his homecoming.  That is more important than protecting "my feelings." 


Of course, I am a somewhat well-adjusted adult.

10/17/2017 - 8:10am Clemson

CFP and national title. They get benefit of doubt for that.

10/16/2017 - 8:17pm Hike and RichRod

Are you asking about the Hoke and RichRod eras? Are you researching a paper?

10/16/2017 - 7:57pm improvement

He improved in those areas from last week. And, they are all skills that can be learned with experience. He will make more mistakes, buy likely less

10/16/2017 - 7:09pm You're right

They just don't breakdown stats like that. So, the INT numbers have some element of performance aligned with it. Not complete alignment, but stronger than fumble stats.

10/16/2017 - 6:51pm OKorn

He just needs to manage the game. He said as much in his presser. That is what the coaches want. All he has to do is protect the ball and keep them honest with the occasional pass. out defense, run game and special teams can win the game.