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Date Title Body
12/18/2018 - 10:26am Thank you for elaborating my…

Thank you for elaborating my point.  We have signed highly ranked kids from OH, but not from what I referenced as "the heart of OH", which is where Columbus is and where Harrison is from.  Most of the guys we sign are from Northern OH, near Toledo or even Cleveland.  Woodson was from Freemont, which is closer to Ann Arbor than Columbus.  Howard is an interesting one that I have looked into before with no avail.  He was in the class of 1988 and I can't find any recruiting information on him.  He was obviously a great player and was from Cleveland, but I don't know what he was ranked as a HS recruit, do you?  Based simply on his size, or lack thereof, I doubt he was a 5-star recruit.  Keegan, as others have said is from Illinois.

 

Just a recommendation, if you're going to be less than nice, I'd recommend you at least be correct.  I wouldn't tell people "you don't know..." when you are not correct, or really at all.  It's better to just be nice in a discussion :)

12/18/2018 - 10:15am was there any way the…

was there any way the coaches would've sat Devin Bush unless he showed up 30lbs overweight?  Your 3rd year all-american is not expected to prove the same things in spring as your Fresh/Soph's. 

Devin Bush was well publicized for being an extremely hard worker in practice and a good leader.  While he was also a great player on the field, his work ethic was never in question and he never suffered any serious injury.  The same can be said of Gary, Winovich, Patterson, etc.  Those guys work ethic and leadership were proven.  The other guys...not so much.

12/18/2018 - 9:29am I get the feeling that JH…

I get the feeling that JH focuses more on competition than on winning.  If your #1 goal is to win, you play the players that give you the best opportunity to do that.  If you have other goals like discipline, competition, etc. that might sway you to play another player that has worked harder, been healthy, etc. but is not as good of a player.  I'm not saying JH and his staff do this, but some of these incidents seem to reflect they might.  And, IMO this is a tactical mistake.  This is a prime difference between JH and Meyer.  Meyer has the reputation of going to the other side too far and giving star players preferential treatment, but ultimately this increases the chances of winning more games.  You can teach lessons and have conversations with players, but if you want to win, you have to play the players that give you the best chance of doing so.

12/18/2018 - 9:15am I hate to say I told you so,…

I hate to say I told you so, and I know it was looking good for a while, but I said all along we would make a good run on him, say all the right things, etc. but it would still eventually end with him signing with OSU.  Kids that highly ranked in heart of OH don't come to UM...never had, never will.

12/17/2018 - 7:14pm Hill hasn't signed yet and…

Hill hasn't signed yet and some insiders still have their CB to UM.  And, we still have a strong shot at Harrision who will sign in just 2 days.  Just one of those two would likely lock in a top 8 class and both would probably lock in a top 5 class.  If that happens then 3 of the last 4 years will have top 8 classes and the potential for two of them to be top 5.  That's impressive and better than we've done since in a decade.  Clemson won a NC with lower class rankings and Okla is in the playoffs with less.  That is enough to give us a shot, especially considering Meyer is gone.  It's not all peaches n' cream, but there are good things happening if you chose to look for them.

12/17/2018 - 7:09pm I'm picturing Meyer in…

I'm picturing Meyer in particular who has a reputation as giving preferential treatment and taking care of star players.  He's also a phenomenal recruiter.  Not saying one is right or wrong as I'm sure both perspectives can be successful, but it may give some explanation as to why so many high end recruits transfer from UM.

12/17/2018 - 3:10pm In the past week we just got…

In the past week we just got verbal commits from Keegan & Solomon, both of whom are 4-star top 200 players.  

12/17/2018 - 2:39pm Ugh, any word on what…

Complete hot take here, but could it be the reason we have so many transfers from our higher end recruits is that we don't give them the preferential treatment that some other coaches do?  And, is that a bad thing?  Do they deserve it?  Just thinking out loud here.

12/17/2018 - 12:33pm Haskins is definitely gone,…

Haskins is definitely gone, but Weber is meh.  I'd rather see him share snaps to be honest as I don't think he's as dangerous as Dobbins.

12/16/2018 - 7:01pm That remains to be seen…

That remains to be seen because it all depends on if Day can match Meyer's recruiting prowess.  History would suggest it's unlikely.

 

JH has already shown he can recruit.  Assuming OSU falls back to their traditional, recent historic recruiting levels of a top 10ish class instead of a top 4ish class, then yes, JH can do that.  Early indications are that Day is having trouble on the recruiting trail convincing recruits he will be as successful as Meyer was.  Winning a few recruiting battles for the '19 and '20 classes would be big as well as of course gaining an advantage on the field.  Ultimately however, if we lose again and OSU wins the division again next year that could spell trouble for UM's ability to out-recruit OSU in the Day/JH era.

12/16/2018 - 9:44am I spend enough time getting…

I spend enough time getting frustrated about football.  I love it when we win in basketball, but if things don't go so well...so be it.  I don't care enough to get upset about it.

12/15/2018 - 9:11pm Expand the playoff

Expand the playoff

12/15/2018 - 9:37am I don't know what Saban does…

I don't know what Saban does with or tells recruits, but it's highly effective.  And, it's more than winning.  He closed top 3 classes at LSU while he was winning just 7-8 games per year and he did the same at Bama after coming off a terrible stint with the Dolphins and not winning many games his first year at Bama, so it's more than just his wins post-2007 (although I'm sure they help now).

12/14/2018 - 9:06pm So UM fans have to reach the…

So UM fans have to reach the acceptance stage of the grief cycle about their favorite football team.

I think Michigan is back to being Michigan.  We are back to our historic 8-10 type seasons with consistently around a top 10 recruiting class every year.  The problem is that Meyer has taken up residence in our division and he has given OSU a boost above what they had done in his predecessor's eras.  He has taken OSU from a similar top 10 recruiting ranking that UM had and bumped it up to more like a top 3-4 class.  There are examples of team's like Clemson beating teams like OSU with more talent, but it's rare.  Right now we are doing good, but not Meyer-level good at recruiting.  Hopefully under Day they will divert back to our level putting the two teams on a more even playing field.  One would thing a win over them would help, then again Saban has shown multiple times he can bring in a top #3 class without winning first.  Time will tell.

12/14/2018 - 8:51pm I fail to see a solution…

I fail to see a solution until we consistently win

Not to keep bringing up Saban, but he signed the #2 class at LSU in 2001 after going 8-4 in his first season, then after going 8-5 signed the #3 class in 2003.  Then, after an unsuccessful stint with the Dolphins and coming off a 7-6 record his first year at Alabama, he signed the #3 class and the Alabama dynasty had begun.  But, he signed multiple top 3 classes before ever winning even 9 games in a season at two different schools.

12/14/2018 - 7:32pm it's not that we can't get…

it's not that we can't get them as much as we're not getting them any more than any other school that isn't Alabama.

OSU has gotten a shitload of them:

 

2013: Vonn Bell (#26 overall)

2014: Erick Smith (#65 overall)

2017: Isiah Pryor (#63 overall)

2018: Tyreke Johnson (#21 overall)

          Josh Proctor (#71 overall)

2019: Jordan Battle (# 77 overall)

          Ronnie Hickman (# 112 overall)

12/14/2018 - 3:18pm Correct me if I'm wrong, but…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're playing a 4-man front you can only double one of them unless the second blocker is a RB or TE. Ask yourself how confident would you be with Higdon and Runyan doubling Bosa? Gary and Chase healthy should have been able to beat thay. Just have to assume neither healthy.

12/14/2018 - 12:38pm What is it about the safety…

What is it about the safety position that we have such trouble recruiting post-Carr?  I guess the combo of Cole, Thomas, & Dorsey not living up really hurt that.  Must be back luck/chance.

12/14/2018 - 9:53am I could see Battle not…

I could see Battle not wanting to commit because of Hill, but with Hill being the higher ranked guy are more sought after I doubt Hill would be afraid of committing because of Battle.  It can't hurt, but it would be better if it was the other way around.

12/14/2018 - 7:42am 1) We never "had" Harrison

1) We never "had" Harrison

2) We still have a legitimate shot at Hill

3) We still have Charbonet, Hinton, Smith, Rumler, Jones, Perry, McNamara, & Jackson.  If you don't think kids in the top 100 are blue chips I don't know what to tell you.

12/12/2018 - 9:43pm In all fairness during that…

In all fairness during that time span it was mostly Perry ('02 & '03) and Hart ('04 - '07) and before them A-Train, Howard for a few years, and before that Wheatley.  So they recruited an elite back to produce over 1,000 yards for the majority of 1992-2007.  So in my mind the starting RB for a solid tenure was typically better than what we've had post-Carr.  But, they also probably had a lot better o-lines to run behind as well, so there's that.  Charbonet looks like our first stud.  Hopefully he stays with his "commitment" and pans out to produce at the level of his recruiting profile.

12/12/2018 - 7:53pm I'm happy anytime these go…

I'm happy anytime these go early.  Bosa, Jones, & Haskins are 3 guys that would make an impact if they returned, and all are likely gone.  However, they recruit very well and they always reload.  But, it's still newsworthy.

12/12/2018 - 7:51pm Curious that 11W or TheOZone…

Curious that 11W or TheOZone hasn't reported this.

12/12/2018 - 6:44pm That's a shame.  I was…

That's a shame.  I was always enamored by his athleticism and lets be honest, dude is jacked.  Too bad it never got to materialize at UM.

12/12/2018 - 1:47pm It's cool.  I don't have…

It's cool.  I don't have Facebook, so I didn't realize Bosa was #1 :/

12/12/2018 - 12:59pm I've always said as far as…

I've always said as far as this games goes, despite his record against UM, Barrett was as good as we should expect.  He was not particularly dangerous nor prolific.  He did not scare me or our defense and we handled him quite well.  Haskins I was also concerned he might throw the ball around based on what I saw in the 4th quarter in '17.  If he goes pro that's good for us.  It's unlikely they get that level of production from anyone else.  However, I also think Day's offense will lean more towards that scheme than Meyer's did.

12/12/2018 - 11:08am While I'm all for keeping…

While I'm all for keeping our fandom in check and having some perspective in our lives.  We all know how important recruiting is to the success of the program we love.  And, we all know how frustrated we have become by losing so much to OSU.  So, a top recruit choosing between UM and two divisional foes, whom would be the top recruit in any of their classes, is a big deal.  Let's not diminish his importance of whomever he chooses.

12/12/2018 - 11:05am #2 overall is a great…

#2 overall is a great recruiting tool...c'mon down Harrison this could be you.

12/12/2018 - 7:41am I think all those things…

I think all those things bear out well for pulling a 5-star out of OH for UM...keep it on the down low and sign at the time of your announcement leaving no room to flip or let the home team try and steal you back.  All that said, I know we're making a good run on him, but I won't get my hopes up until I hear his NLI is signed.  I'm assuming he's staying home until otherwise.

12/11/2018 - 9:57pm The answer isn't to…

The answer isn't to magically get better recruiting classes.

Can you point to anything that would support your argument?  

The answer is to improve coaching and development. 

I'm not sure us fans are knowledgable enough to know this.  I don't think it's as simple as OSU throws the ball a bunch making them more exciting.  

Michigan's talent is good enough to be competitive with anyone in the country.

What makes you believe that?  Bama, OSU, & UGA are the top 3 talented rosters based on recruiting rankings (I'll attach the link at the bottom).  UM got blown out by OSU who is the most talented team in the country and lost a close game on the road to ND who is #10.  The only real outliers in the top 20 are FSU and USC as underachievers based on their team talent.  The average NC is in the top 4 in team talent.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/

I'm not saying coaching & development doesn't matter.  It most certainly does.  But, that's harder to analyze for fans.  But, talent makes a big difference.  Being the most talented team doesn't guarantee a playoff spot (OSU/UGA), but you can assume the more talented team will beat the less talented one the vast majority of the time.

12/11/2018 - 7:29pm Alabama, Georgia, and Miami…

Alabama, Georgia, and Miami as just as blue blood as Michigan

While I would consider them blue bloods, they have not consistently recruited or won historically at UM levels.  Check Bama & UGA's records and recruiting rankings through the 80's, 90's, and early 00's.  You would never have expected either program to flip UM recruits prior to the mid 2000's.  So, you have to ask yourself what happened? 

 

Part of that is our setbacks in coaching turnover, but you have to question bagmen/benefits.  Bama immediately started recruiting top 5 classes when Saban arrived.  And, while UGA recruited well under Richt, they have significantly improved their rankings with Smart who happens to be...wait for it...a Saban disciple!

12/11/2018 - 2:32pm Sam also mentioned Aubrey…

the race for Dax Hill MAY not be over

Awesome, glad to hear.  Thanks for the update!

Sam also mentioned Aubrey Solomon as a precedent. It’s not necessarily the exact same situation, but there are definitely parallels. 

Do we know what happened with Solomon?  Was it a gag or was he actually upset about the whole BBQ thank you card thing?  I never heard any definitive answer as to why the flip flop.  So, what are these parallels?

Sam cautions fans to stop with the accusations of extra benefits, one because it’s indecent, and two because of self-interest (so you’re saying there’s a chance?)

One, anyone that tweets or communicates with recruits in a negative way is an idiot. 

 

Two, can you blame folks for thinking extra benefits?  Bama has poached our top recruit in 3 of the last 5 years (Hill, Ekiyor, & Harris).  Add to that major leans in Wilson with UGA who's a former Saban assistant, Herbert to Miami, Treadwill to Ole Miss, etc.  It's hard to not think that as a traditional blue blood strong recruiting program who always starts strong and finishes weak and/or looses guys and the southern schools that do the opposite.  However, from my perspective this is only a message board type of complaint.  Is anyone tweeting at the kid?...because that does deserve criticism.

12/11/2018 - 11:05am Things seem pretty simple…

Things seem pretty simple and generally good for UM.  To beat the majority of the B1G all we need is a top 25 class every year.  To beat Wiscy, MSU, and PSU we probably need a top 15ish class every year, although PSU is inching up in the rankings the past few years so that may be more like top 10ish for them.  But, to beat OSU (assuming they continue to recruit at Meyer levels) we probably need a top 5ish class and that is what is eluding us.  A top 10 class has proven with our current coaching and development strategies it is not enough to beat OSU under Meyer.

12/09/2018 - 1:59pm I agree with your point, but…

I agree with your point, but I think the combination of how recently the decommittment happened and that it was our highest ranked recruit in a position of need is what's causing the sting, coupled with a frustrating loss to OSU.  I guarantee a committment from Harrison would completely change our perceptions.

12/09/2018 - 11:09am it does indeed need to be…

it does indeed need to be given a rest.

We're supposed to be supportive of our fellow UM fans.  You can disagree, but why take the rather rude stace of "give it a rest"?

unless you and the other whiners and equivocators find and provide clear, concrete PROOF of all this cheating you claim to know about

Of course there is no proof.  That's the whole point.  However lack of proof of also not evidence of lack of wrong doing.  So, in the lack of any evidence either in support of or against this idea all we have to go on is circumstantial evidence and that evidence points to something different in the past 15 years of Saban's college football coaching.  It is a sound theory, but it is just a theory as is yours.  Neither can be proven right or wrong and both are valid arguments.

Harbaugh came in here like PT Barnum, and has not delivered on his brave postures and loudmouthing.

I think you're confusing JH with media reports.  JH guaranteed nothing.  When asked if we wants to make guarantees he merely said "I want to do a good job."

We were all taught that he WILL get it done, right the ship, bring us back into the elite, beat MSU, OSU and all others with alarming frequency and recruit like a mother.

When were we ever elite?  One year in 1997?  Bo wasn't elite.  He usually lost in the Rose Bowl...when he got there.  Carr had one elite year.  Moellar wasn't elite.  So, when was this elite...1905?  C'mon man.  We've never been elite in the modern era.

 

I think you have unrealistic expectations.  JH has brought us back to our historically W/L records of 8-10 win seasons and has beaten MSU and has recruited well.  The only thing he hasn't done is beat OSU.  I know that's frustrating.  It is to all of us.  But, we are recruiting at the level we have in the past.  He is averaging a top 8 class ranking.  When did we ever consistently do better than that?  We've never recruited at a Saban/Meyer/Carroll level with top 5 classes every year.  That's the problem.  That's what we are trying to compete against in our division now with OSU.  They never did that prior to Meyer either.  OSU is recruiting at a historically high level and we are recruiting at a level back to what we were.  But, what we were is not enough to beat them.  So, JH has brought us back.  He just hasn't made us better than we ever were.  The bottom line is Meyer was a better recruiter than JH, any UM coach ever, as well as any OSU coach ever (as is Saban).  You want JH to be a better recruiter than Meyer and he's not.  He never claimed to be or guaranteed he would be.  We all hoped getting close to him would be enough and it hasn't been.  That doesn't mean he's not successful and hasn't brought us back to what we used to be because he has and we are.  OSU is just better than they've ever been.

12/09/2018 - 10:45am 10 wins is awesome, even by…

10 wins is awesome, even by our own measures of successes of the past.  However continuously losing to OSU is not something that has historically happened and is a frustration most fans cannot get over.  Regardless of the record, until we can beat OSU, we will remain frustrated and all other negative things (Hill decommittment) only serve to amplify that frustration.  There is no consolation.  Basketball wins are great.  Beating MSU is nice.  Punishment of Meyer is fun to indulge in.  But, the only thing that will console us is a win over OSU.

12/09/2018 - 10:28am It's hard to say who does…

It's hard to say who does and who doesn't provide extra benefits and how much extra benefits they are giving because there is very little evidence.  However, Bama was never an elite recruiter in the modern era before Saban and since he arrived they have not dropped outside the top 5 in class rankings.  The same trend happened at LSU when he was there.  However, the expectation at UM is we need to win and beat OSU before we can have that sort of recruiting success.  So the question becomes why does Saban have recruiting success prior to on field success but the belief is we cannot?  There must be an explanation because JH and his staff are by all accounts good recruiters and UM is by all accounts a blue blood program with a track record of recruiting success.  However, Saban has taken 2 schools that were previously not at UM's recruiting level and surpassed them.

12/09/2018 - 10:18am You're both offering…

You're both offering opinions with no evidence.  Prior to Saban arriving at Bama they had not cracked the top 10 in class rankings.  Since he came they have not dropped outside the top 5.  The same trend happened at LSU.  There is reason to question why he has had recruiting success prior to on field success whereas the expectation for UM is that we need to win and beat OSU before we have it.  One possible explanation is extra benefits.  It makes sense.  So, unless you're providing an alternative rationale it's not very polite to tell your fellow UM fan to "give it a rest."

12/08/2018 - 8:41pm All correct.  We are never…

All correct.  We are never going to consistently be an elite program with our current constraints.  We might get lucky and get a magical '97-esque season surrounded by some 8-9 win seasons.  But, we are never going to be like OSU and win 10-13 games for 15 straight years.

12/08/2018 - 8:37pm Sometimes I just get sick of…

Sometimes I just get sick of this process.  I doubt beating OSU would have had any influence on this.  It is just hard to pry top 150 type kids from out of region.  Dax Hill, Isiah Wilson, Laquon Treadwell, etc.  Sometimes I'd rather we just get the bagman going too and be done with it so I can stop being frustrated by my love of UM football.  

12/07/2018 - 5:14pm Lets hope for more Ross and…

Lets hope for more Ross and less Gill, more Thomas and less Watson, and Solomon gets healthy.

12/06/2018 - 8:06pm I can relate to a lot of…

I can relate to a lot of that as we are probably around the same age.  I also loved the Fab 5 when I was a teenager.  However, as I got older I found basketball less interesting.  I'm not sure if it's me or the game, but it just doesn't do it for me any longer.  Part of it was likely when we went through violations and had some struggling seasons.  Part of it is that the best players don't stick around long.  Back in the days of the Fab 5 the best players stayed at least 2 years and often 3.  Today it's one and done.  And, I think part of it is it feels like basketball appears even more shady than football with the extra benefits.  But, all in all I just don't find it as entertaining any longer.  But, football I could watch the same game multiple times and follow recruiting year round, even during the RR years.

12/06/2018 - 2:41pm Of course not, we just don't…

Of course not, we just don't like it as much as football.  I grew up in the 90's when we kicked the shit out of OSU.

12/06/2018 - 2:15pm No

No

12/06/2018 - 10:27am I think those who love…

I think those who love college football more than say, the NFL, do so because it represents a part of their culture.  Lots of people like watching football.  It's the most popular sport in our country.  However, few have any affiliation to NFL teams other than they are from the local area or their parents were fans.  However, college football is different.  Many fans are alumni of the school, which gives them a sense of identity and pride towards their team.  So, I think there is a bit more of a personal identity associated to college football over the NFL.  Plus, it's older, has more tradition, has better rivalries, has fight songs, has larger stadiums, the players actually go to the school, there is more emotion and intensity to the games, and it tends to have more consistency with your favorite team being good than the NFL does.

12/05/2018 - 6:19pm Nope, do you?  If we're…

Nope, do you?  If we're gonna lose every year, which we basically have for the past 20 years, I'm OK rotating off once in a while.  If they are 14 teams in the league and they all play 9 conference games, that means we play them about 2 out of every 3 years.  Having a protected rivalry game against the best team in the conference every year would put us at a unique disadvantage.  That would be like Georgia maintaining a game against Alabama every year.  Imagine if we played another team instead of them this season and had the opportunity to play them in the conference championship game at a neutral site.  It might have looked different.

12/05/2018 - 4:11pm That's fantastic news.  Now,…

That's fantastic news.  Now, just get rid of the divisions all together, play a rotating schedule to ensure fairness, and get rid of all protected rivalries and game date slots and we are good to go.  While we're at it, require the rest of the Power 5 to do the same, expand the playoff to 8 teams, guarantee all Power 5 conference winners an entry, and we're golden.

12/05/2018 - 11:45am He is such a homer.  Why…

He is such a homer.  Why doesn't he use his insider knowledge to find out what's on Urban's cell phone and why he met with Grimes mom.  I don't trust a thing he says.  He is totally biased and I highly doubt JH would leave now right when he got the program so close to where he wanted it with his rival finally showing signs of weakness.  If JH ever leaves it won't be before he beats OSU.

12/05/2018 - 11:37am We may never know what…

We may never know what happened at OSU under Meyer's tenure.  Did he burn out again with his health?  Was he forced out due to conflict with administration for the ZS saga?  Did he want to go out on top?  Is he eying greener pastures somewhere else?  We'll probably never know, but it's most likely a combination of things.  I do think JH is narrowing the gap.  I also think Meyer got the better of him in the two seasons where there was less of a talent gap ('16 & '18), however he also had the advantage of playing at home both those years. 

 

Ultimately, this is Meyer's legacy.  He put together one of the most successful 7-year stints as both a HC in this era, an OSU coach in the rivalry, a phenomenal recruiter, ran a highly successful system he put in place, and won a NC.  However, he also cherry picked a job, created an environment  that allowed ZS to thrive, and has a track of deceit with some very questionable allegations that warrant explanation such as the cell phone text messages and the meeting Grimes mother.  At the end of the day he will go down as a highly successful coach with a reputation of burning himself out and burning out administrative relationships and a guy with a big ego who cares so much about his legacy that he's willing to do questionable ethical things that are in conflict with what he says he values most.  Which is the real Urban, probably all of it.  He's human.  But, JH still has quite a bit of work to do if he wants to reach a level of success that Meyer has had at the college level.  But, he still has time and we don't know yet who will win this race.  But, there's no doubt Meyer is ahead right now.

12/05/2018 - 11:19am I'm not sure how that…

I'm not sure how that hypothetical would work because particularly on offense they recruit for a different system.  So, I'd have to assume everything else remains the same, which means Urban would be coaching the guys that were at UM the past 4 years.  I'd have to assume Urban would lose the games in '15 and '17 regardless.  I still think '16 could have gone either way so he'd have a decent chance of winning that game and I don't really hold that loss against JH.  He did all he could.  And, I also think if played again it's unlikely OSU would win by such a large margin, so I'd guess Urban would have had a better outcome in that game, but not guaranteed a win.  It would be interesting to see what Urban could do with Patterson.  But, who knows.  So, really all we're saying here is JH has been outmatched talent wise in this game for 2 of the first 3 years, lost once due to dumb luck in a close game, and had a really bad game this season.  It is what it is