I will be watching and actively cheering on Michigan tomorrow. I have a strong aversion to the Buckeyes from back in the GWLL days. Generally obnoxious people. For a long time they were our "rival" in the Midwest... but now we're out of conference and it's hard to really consider someone a "rival" anymore when you absolutely own them on the field.
The only thing I give them credit for is that in my first gig covering a game for Inside Lacrosse at the Horseshoe they were quite nice to the media and had good food in the press box. So there's that, I guess.
Unless you've got elite defensive talent like Maryland, Denver, etc. you really don't have a chance of stopping this Notre Dame offense. Notre Dame is going to score 12+ on everyone who is not a top defensive team or can't control faceoffs. Kavanagh and Perkovic are about as good as it gets in the country, Doyle/Ossello are very solid, Wynne is exactly what ND wants in a crease attack, and Corrigan is good at getting out of the way. The second line features an All-American midfielder and two really solid complimentary players. And that's not even considering top MLL draft pick 2-way middie Near who can push transition from D to O as good as anyone.
I thought Michigan could pull an upset today because of the flaws we saw against Georgetown... namely goal tending, but also inconsistent faceoff play that can keep the ball away from ND's offense. But Doss ate up most of the easy shots today and ND won faceoffs, and that's how you get the score we see. ND is a perennial final four team for a reason, and this year's team is strictly better than last year's squad that won the ACC and made the NCAA finals.
Clearly, Michigan is heading in the right dirrection. There has been obvious growth from Team 1 to now. This team has some very talented pieces, and will continue to attract top talent because of the elite academics/athletics coupled with the continued growth of lacrosse in the Midwest. You only have one Ian King right now when really you need 3-4 Ian Kings level players to seriously compete for a championship... and that will come in time.
Michigan is going to quickly overtake Ohio State (maybe even this year) because of superior academics, and should be close the gap on Penn State soon after even with Penn State's built in recruiting advantage with Pennsylvania talent. Then the question will be can Michigan take the next step and truly compete with Maryland/Hopkins? I'm not sure they can with John Paul at the helm. I think his ceiling as a coach is below "perennial contender"... but get someone like Presseler in Ann Arbor and the sky is the limit. Just like how Tierney transfored Denver from "pretty good" under Munro to #1 now.
Looking forward to more games in the future, thanks for being gracious hosts.
Great info, hope I can make it to the game. I think it'll be very competetitive, this is clearly a very different Michigan team from the past few seasons when they were getting their feet wet. They really appear to be turning the corner. Quint put the Wolverines in his Top 20 this week: http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/quint-s-top-20-michigan-marquette…
As for ND, this years' team appears to be almost a polar opposite of the type of team people came to expect year-in and year-out. Suffocating defense, faceoff dominance, possession, and stellar goalie play were all Hallmarks of those teams that this squad doesn't have. This year the offense is potent with Kavanagh and Perkovic headlining a really top-to-bottom talented group. But the defense got worked by Georgetown, and the play in cage was terrible. ND was also sub-.500 at the X mainly because Ossello (who they're trying to use for instant offense) got dominated. So I'm expecting a 13-11 type game this week and I'm not sure who comes out on top.
Anyone know how hard it will be to get tickets? Thinking about coming up for the game but saw seating is only 1000 in Oosterbaan. It doesn't appear that this game will be broadcast anywhere?
From the game against Georgetown, I think Michigan has a strong chance to win. Notre Dame's offense is for real, but the goaltending is atrocious right now and that can be an Achilles' heel for any team. Faceoffs are a mixed bag and the midfield lines are also a bit funky, so this has high scoring upset written all over it.
Frankly, you'd get a great education at any of those three, and what you make out of yourself in life is dependant on so many other factors than where you went to undergrad.
If you approach college as strictly a return on investment standpoint, then you should be evaluating which schools excel in majors that will place you in a highly compensated field after graduation. Michigan embrasses Notre Dame (and Northwestern, to a degree) in almost all engineering disciplines. That's an easy choice.
With regards to business, Ross is pretty clearly superior Mendoza for graduate school. For undergrad though, anyone telling you that Mendoza sucks or you don't get placed well from there or whatever is either uninformed or lying to you. There are no facts to substantiate that Mendoza grads don't have truly elite job placement.
I went through a similar decision (Virginia [in-state tuition... great public university comparable to Michigan] vs. Notre Dame vs. non-big 3 Ivies)... all I can say is that if you're not going to Harvard/Princeton/Yale/Stanford I think your nephew should just pick the best fit and not look back. How comfortable he feels at his choice is probably the most important factor on how much "return" he gets on the investment your sister makes in his education.
If Ross is sooooooooo much better than Mendoza for undergrad, and their graduates are highly sought over for high paying jobs while Mendoza graduates get passed over, how do you explain this?
Truth is ND is incredible at job placement, which is a large part of why Business Week ranks them high... because of where they place their graduates. Proof is in the pudding and Mendoza grads make a lot of scratch.
I never should've come on here. I haven't been on here since I created an account to talk lacrosse about Michigan's new team last year. That discussion went a lot differently. I'm obviously not going to change anyone's mind and that's fine... so time to check out of this topic.
If he spent 4 months on her instead of 3 years? Because that is how much time they were "dating" according to every news source out there. In the time preceding April/May 2012 and after September 2012 he has had real girlfriends.
But as a Mormon he can do just as much with his real girlfriends as a fake one... nothing at all until he is married.
Is every single post where you correct someone who has their facts wrong or present anything that doesn't say "whatever I don't care what he says he was in on it" or "whatever he's gay" gets immediately down voted.
I was directed to this thread by a bunch of Michigan engineers I work with... none of whom think Manti was in on it because they've actually paid attention to what has come out since the initial Deadspin article and we talk about it daily in the office. They told me the message board world was still thoroughly convinced he was in on it. I asked why and they said they want him to be in on it so nothing that comes out will change theirs minds.
The logic that "well, I think his story isn't plausible so he MUST be in on it" makes no sense. Our legal system doesn't work that way for a reason. It's darn near impossible to prove a negative. As an experiment, trying proving he was in on it. Try proving the other side you want so badly to believe.
How did he concoct this thing starting 2008 with someone he didn't know and had never met until November 2012? Why is there not a single person with first hand kmowledge who has come out on record and said they think he was in on it? Why has there not been a single piece of evidence uncovered so far implicating him in it with all of the digging that is going on? How do you explain the other 5 people hoaxed by Lennay from 2008 to 2012? How do you have a gay relationship with someone that you need to create a cover for if you've never met them until November 2012?
A large chunk of you already have your minds made up and that's your perogative. I hope at least a small portion of those who want to believe he was "in on it" take a step and try to be intellectually honest. You can still have your cake and eat it too... as Manti is clearly liar who lied about certain aspects of the relationship both during and after all of this... so he can still be a bad dude and shithead in your book.
But whatever, this is probably a waste of time as I'm sure this will just get downvoted and hidden too because it doesn't follow your desired narrative.
I corrected a mistatement. He only told his parents he "met" her in 2009 as a lie to explain how he knew her... that's the only reference to that. It has aboslutely no bearing on their contact level/relationship. The timeline is really simple if you actually look it up. They only "dated" from spring 2012 to her "Death" in Spetember. The post I repleid to said they dated for 3 years. That's what I corrected. So where am I wrong?
For over a week now. What have they turned up? A landslide of evidence backing up Manti's story and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON with firsthand knowledge to say he was "in on it." Nor a single shred of evidence implicating him.
The people Deadspin quoted have backed off their claims because they had no idea what they were talking about. One said "I'm 80% sure Manti must've been involved" as conjecture because he "didn't think Manti was dumb enough"... so not based on any evidence or fact, just his opinion.
The other source stated "Manti and Ronaih are family"... which is just flat out wrong. "Or maybe family friends"... something both the Te'o's or Tuiasosopo's have said isn't true.
So you had two people talking out of butts and speculating and discredited. But of course, you don't care. Because you want Manti to be in on it. So you'll just ignore everything else out there and stick to your conspiracy theories. That's your perogative.
The sheer amount of inaccuracies in this thread by posters who have their minds made up is crazy. It's well established they "dated" for only a couple months starting in the spring of 2012 until September of 2012 when she "died." Before that it was an occasional tweet or facebook message or call at most. From 2008 to 2012 there are at least 5 people who have come forward saying they were the victim of a similar hoax by "Lennay Kekua".
I'll totally believe Manti was in on the hoax as long as someone can explain to me:
1. How you have a gay relationship with someone you've never met? If the theory is this was all a cover of him being gay with Tuiasosopo then how do you explain him never having met him until late November 2012? The only person pointing to them having a pre-existing relationship is the one unnamed Deadspin source who said they "were family" (which shows she obviously had no clue what she was talking about) "or at least family friends" (according to both sides completely untrue).
2. If this is a hoax for publicity, how did they mastermind this elaborate scheme starting back in 2008? Just walk me through how you would go about planning this with someone you don't know.
3. Explain why in either of the above scenarios Tuiasosopo would've also hoaxed AT LEAST 5 other people as reported by ABC. If this is all a cover for being gay or a part of a big publicity stunt plan, why is he hoaxing other people as Lennay?
4. Explain why Te'o would try to check out this person within the Polynesian community if he was complict and wanted to keep this going as a cover. Wouldn't you, in fact, want to draw as few questions as possible to your cover?
5. Explain why dozens of people have come forward after the story broke saying that Tuiasosopo either confessed to them or that Manti was not in on it or that they were hoaxed by "Lennay" or a combination.... but there has not been a single named on the record source with firsthand knowledge at any point that has said Manti was involved.
If you can answer those five questions, I'll believe whatever you want. But some of you want sooooooooooo badly for Te'o to be "in on it" you're willing to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want that Te'o MUST be involved. It's sickening.
The obvious, simplest answer is that Te'o got hoaxed and then lied a bunch after the fact. See how few crazy explanations and rationales are needed to justify that? SMH.
Kansas State basically lucked into a close win thanks to some crucial turnovers by Oklahoma at big moments... won by 5 points. ND just dismantled Oklahoma and won convincingly by 3 scores.
You obviuosly did not watch the Kansas State vs. Oklahoma game.
Very old news and really a neutral effect on Michigan... if anything, it makes the Wolverines' road to the NCAA tournament much easier because Denver is the only "top 10" team in the ECAC they would have to go through to get the AQ.
There is very little to no incentive for the ECAC to look into adding Detroit and I would strongly doubt that happens.
1. You do realize the guys reffing this game are Big Ten officials, right? Are you saying that Big Ten officials are going to be biased FOR Notre Dame?
2. Notre Dame is not an intimidating place to play whatsoever. Homefield advantage is basically zilch for ND... both in theory and practicality given ND's recent home record.
FWIW, I'd be tempted to pick Michigan straight up in this game given recent history, the injury to Jamoris Slaughter (i.e. get ready for a bunch of big plays against this secondary), and how crappy the right side of the line has played this year. This game could go eitehr way but either Denard is going to have to have an off day OR a maligned position for ND has to step up for Michigan to lose. If everybody brings their status quo game then ND probably loses because of a handful of big plays + inconsistent OL play. Just my opinion... an awful lot of question marks for ND that are being glossed over by playing sub-par offensive teams in first 3 games.
If you're a structural guy my firm is going to likely have an opening in about a month or so. Not sure if they're going to try to hire a high level person or promote from within and have an entry level opening (I'm guessing strongly that it will be the latter).
We're located DC/MD/NoVA area. The guy in the cube next to me is a Michigan grad too, so you'd feel right at home ;)
Hit me up at [email protected] if you want more info. We do primarily repair and restoration engineering and construction management in the DC area. Job market is great out this way as the Government never stops spending..........
(Also a fun fact, we have no Ohio State employees despite having people from just about every other Big Ten school... we hired one OSU kid a couple months ago and saying he was an unintelligent catastrophic failure would be an understatement. He is no longer with us.)
You're saying that Business Week, who uses clear metrics that make perfect sense and look strongly at things like job placement, is not valid because......?
You say "insecure," I'd say they're only rational defending the academics. ND's degree has an ROI second to only Stanford in schools that play FBS football and is equivlent with Yale. Maybe you're the one who is uninformed.
Also, why on earth would you go to ND for grad school? The grad schools at ND suck.
As for the academic standards excuse.... you couldn't be more correct. It's a ridiculous cop out with no basis in fact. The foreign language requirement has hamstrung ND with a couple recruits, but "academic requirements" wouldn't make a list of the top dozen+ reasons why Notre Dame is awful at football. It's a sad, sad excuse.
I frequent IrishEnvy.com...... there has never been a single post on there about Hoke paying recruits or anything ridiculous like that. Nor anything Notre Dame winning a national championship this year unless it was someone being quite sarcastic. A poll conducted the other day shows that quite clearly with most thinking 8-4 with many thinking 7-5....
There is a thread about field turf because there's back-and-forth right now in the ND administration on whether to go forward with it. To say it's a done deal and that you got that from our board is... odd.
It seems like big portion of your post is just stuff you made up to say "oh look at those crazy stupid Domers!" I don't get it. Shrug.
ND does not lose 3 starters on the OL. They return their C, LG, and LT in Cave, Watt, and Zach Martin. They replace Taylor Dever and Trevor Robinson with (likely) Christian Lombard + 1 other fresh face.
They don't even come anywhere close to losing 6 starters on defense much less 4 in the secondary. They lose Gary Gray (sucked, see game last year against Michigan for evidence), Robert Blanton (eh... OK player) and Harrison Smith (really good and is likely the #2 safety off the board in the NFL draft). But they return Jamoris Slaughter who is probably a 4th round caliber NFL safety and Zeke Motta who has played a ton of football but sucks maybe even worse then Gary Gray. So they're basically replacing 2 starters at CB and shifting former co-starters into full time roels at safety.
They lost one "starter" at LB and none on the DL. Aaron Lynch, Louis Nix, and Stephon Tuitt are the DL starters plus Kapron Lewis-Moore coming back from injury. LB remains to be seen who actually gets starting nods but all players return except for Darius Fleming who was a starter but split reps at times with Ishaq Williams and Prince Shembo.
So with the "worst case" math ND loses 4 starters on defense in Gray, Blanton, Smith, and Fleming. Using "best case" math they are only replacing 2 starters with fresh faces... both at CB.
Yes, ND will suck this year and be lucky to go 7-5 because they will be worse than Oklahoma, USC, Stanford, and Michigan for absolute sure. But they aren't losing as many people as you said and I just wanted to correct that.
Congrats on your first win. Michigan has some good recruits already signed up in the next two classes and will be turning the corner into a competitive team in no time.
Both in your lifetime. Back to back BCS games. Beat #3 Michigan in '05. #2 preseason team in '06 (laughably overrated...) but were a top 10 team for almost the whole season.
Michigan hasn't been in a BCS game since '04 and '06... that's incredibly comparable to Notre Dame. Both games they lost, just like Notre Dame. Would you say Michigan is irrelevant? Of course not.
Relevance = filling stadium, still attracting good recruits, still pulling good TV ratings. The Under the Lights game this year showed just how relevant Michigan and Notre Dame still are... did you see the ratings for that game? Anyone arguing that Notre Dame is "irrelevant" either doesn't understand the word or is a hater. It's that simple.
Competitive? Hell no. Notre Dame absolutely sucks this year and hasn't been in the BCS picture for 5 straight seasons now. Don't confuse that with relevant.
Put yourself in Brian Kelly's shoes, where in here do you call the timeouts?
Usc 1-10 at Nd49 USC drive start at 06:43.
Usc 1-10 at Nd49 McNeal, Curtis rush for 15 yards to the ND34, 1ST DOWN USC (SMITH, H.;SLAUGHTER).
Usc 1-10 at Nd34 McNeal, Curtis rush for 4 yards to the ND30 (SHEMBO).
Usc 2-6 at Nd30 McNeal, Curtis rush for 1 yard to the ND29 (FOX).
Usc 3-5 at Nd29 PENALTY ND personal foul off-setting, PENALTY USC personal foul off-setting.
Usc 3-5 at Nd29 McNeal, Curtis rush for 14 yards to the ND15, 1ST DOWN USC (GRAY, G.;SMITH, H.).
Usc 1-10 at Nd15 McNeal, Curtis rush for 2 yards to the ND13 (GRAY, G.).
Usc 2-8 at Nd13 McNeal, Curtis rush for 4 yards to the ND9 (FOX).
Usc 3-4 at Nd09 Timeout USC, clock 02:41.
Usc 3-4 at Nd09 McNeal, Curtis rush for 5 yards to the ND4, 1ST DOWN USC (NIX;FOX).
Usc 1-G at Nd04 McNeal, Curtis rush for loss of 2 yards to the ND6 (NIX;GRAY, G.).
Usc 2-G at Nd06 McNeal, Curtis rush for 2 yards to the ND4 (LYNCH;SLAUGHTER).
Usc 3-G at Nd04 McNeal, Curtis rush for 2 yards to the ND2 (TUITT;FLEMING).
Usc 4-G at Nd02 End of game, clock 00:00.
Obviously, you start off wanting to save your timeouts and get a stop... then USC picks up a first down on 3rd and 5 with about ~4:30 minutes left on the clock. Still time to get the stop and save your time outs... but then McNeal picks up a 1st down on 3rd and 4 with about 2 minutes left inside the ND 10. At this point you can either blow all your timeouts and get the ball back with about 1:40 down 3 scores... or take the loss. I can see someone saying that not using your timeouts here is "quitting" but I don't know if there is a team in the history of college football who has come back from being down 3 scores in 1:40. If there is, I'd love to see a link to it.
Is that every mistake is amplified x1000. BK yells at a player? OMG HE'S THE DEVIL!! WHAT A BAD MAN!!! And I'm still hearing about it on ESPN. Notre Dame doesn't use their timeouts when USC has the ball inside the ND 10 with 2 minutes left down 14? OMG THEY'RE QUITTERS!!! QUIT QUIT QUIT!!! HAHA ND SUX!!!
Meanwhile Nick Saban flips out in a press conference and curses at the media and everyone just laughs it off. Oh that Nick Saban... his temper is so adorable. Nick Saban also grabbed a kid by the facemask and chewed him out basically spitting in his face. On natonal TV. And no one cares.
It is just insane the microscope Brian Kelly is under. I think about some of the stuff I heard our lax coach say to the players and refs during games... and I just crack up thinking about what the reaction would be if he had to live in the same fishbowl as Kelly.
It can and will become a big time sport in Michigan. Just a matter of time. It's an incredibly fun sport and the physicality of the game (like hockey) lends itself well to football fans.
I covered the record setting game hosted by Ohio State against Notre Dame in 2009 for Inside Lacrosse. Was a lot of fun to see 30k+ fans at the game, and they were pretty into it in the first half but after ND went on a 7-0 run in 3rd quarter they got pretty darn quiet, which was disappointing. Can't imagine what the game will be like between Michigan and Ohio State before spring football games... Michigan is probably about 3 years away from really being able to compete with Ohio State, but they'll get there. Michigan is already recruiting pretty well and will continue to pick up steam over at least the '13 and '14 classes as kids look for early playing time.
Hope that either the University of Michigan or some donors pony up the money for facilities. ND was lucky enough to have the Arlottas donate the best lacrosse only stadium/facilities in country... and it really does have a wow factor on recruits who see how much better things are in South Bend than at some east coast power houses like Duke and UNC. Johns Hopkins is just now starting to build new facilities to keep up.
...puts heavy emphasis on research (which Notre Dame does not) and in general is incredibly flawed. "Ranking" schools is silly as a concept, but it becomes truly ridiculous when you see something like this.
ND comes in #9 on ROI for a degree; and then if you look at SAT scores, GPAs, etc. of the kids getting in there it is CLEARLY a better school than Ohio State or Michigan State. #200+ is just absurd and completely invalidates the "methodology."
USC "cold shouldered" him out the door (can't blame them, they have like five thousand 5* WRs), Cal sucks, and Notre Dame hasn't been recruiting him hard for multiple months now. I seriously have no idea why he is still visiting for the USC game. Maybe just to hang out... maybe to do some recruiting for Michigan... who knows. But I will be socked if he doesn't commit to Michigan.
Like when Mouton got suspended retroactivley for punching a Notre Dame guy. If Dantonio has any morals (which he doesn't) he would suspend him right now for their next game after watching the replay. Then again, Rich Rod didn't suspend Mouton and tried to defend him punching a player.
...is full of a bunch of mouth breathers. I refuse to believe I attended school with any of the people on that site. Sadly, I'm sure I did.
That was an insane game. The most on the edge of my seat I have ever been since the Bush Push game. And even more heartbreaking.
Notre Dame is losing these games because we suck and have no leadership. Period. No excuses. No blame. You just have to totally suck to let a guy get loose for 64 yards with 23 seconds left to play with a secondary full of upperclassmen.
Congrats on your win. And you all should root for us next week... because no one likes to see mass suicide, right? Also, ND kicks rule breakers out of school instead of letting them play without suspension like MSU which means we're the more morally acceptable school to root for.*
Is really flawed. Tulsa, besides their opening drive, couldn't move the ball and only had one offensive TD in the whole game. They got their points off of a blocked XP, int return for a TD, punt return for a TD, etc. Navy runs a completely and utterly different offense than Michigan.
I think Michigan wins but it has nothing to do with Navy or Tulsa or anything that happened last year. It has everything to do with the environment that the Irish will walk into at the Big House and the fact that Michigan will be much better on defense. I just don't see Notre Dame scoring many points and I see Denard going Superman at least a couple times.
The record setter in '09 when Notre Dame beat the crap out of Ohio State in the 'Shoe. Was right before their spring game and a great atmosphere. Great way to get people who wouldn't usually turn up for a lacrosse game exposed to the sport.
I think with it being Michigan vs. Ohio State in the Big House it will be even better. Hopefully they can start doing that rivalry matchup before the spring game each year alternating between the 'Shoe and the Big House.
But if by some highly unprobable miracle ND starts 6-1 or 7-0 (emphasis on the miracle) with a victory over USC and Georgia has a slow start he is going to be Irish (iif Byron Marshall isn't already onboard). Keith is really tight with current ND commit Ronald Darby and that plus Butch Davis getting fired at UNC has put us solidly in his top 2.
I also agree with the above poster who says he doesn't have the running style/build to take 25 carries a game in the Big Ten. He is very much an APB who will likely work best in a split backfield where he gets ~15 touches a game.
is that the game is late enough that they might have developed a QB by then... but if this game was early Michigan wins it convincingly. I expect Michigan to be much better on defense with how stout their DL should be against the run... and OSU doesn't look like a team prepared to air it out.
There are quite a few athletes (mostly outside of football) who take academics very seriously. A good example would be Tim Abromaitis who is ridiculously impressive student and Chris Stewart who was a full-time law student in his 5th year at Notre Dame.
People are 100% right that admissions "standards" being a recruiting issue is largely total bullshit. But there are things (for instance, having to take a foreign language in high school or you cannot qualify) that are non-negotiable and bar recruits from admittance. We saw this recently with Jordan Prestwood who had to take summer school courses in Spanish to qualify and a CA RB named Byron Marshall who is electing to take optional summer courses in high school to qualify for ND because right now he cannot be admitted. A lot of times a kid will scoff at these requirements and go to USC or Alabama or wherever instead of spending their summer taking optional classes to qualify/
Other points of note: Notre Dame also takes no JUCO transfers because the administration, forces all 5th year players to be full-tim purusing a grad school degree or 5 year dual-degree program (i.e. no Matt Leinart taking ball room dancing as his only class), and pushes all students to graduate in 4 years in real majors with a lot of success.
Also, there are no majors aimed directly at athletes. That doesn't mean there aren't easy majors available to all students, but as an athlete who went through ND I can assure you there aren't set-aside programs.
On the "Even Denver, who received the most hype of any team for the way they were recruiting out of Canada since supposedly it was key to their rise from nothing to the Final Four in two years, only has 4 players from our neighbor to the North" if you take away the Canadians from Denver they probably don't break .500 this year. Mark Matthews is an incredible talent and their whole offense ran through him. And Jeremy Noble/Cameron Flint were a HUGE difference makers on that team. When 3 out of their 5 best players are from Canada (accounting for over 40% of their goals from just three Canadian players) it's kinda crazy to downplay the impact of Canadian recruiting.
While there might not be a high quantity of players on the roster at any given time they've been an integral part of keep Denver competitive for years because they are often the most talented guys/key players. Case and point is Mark Matthews (who surprisingly got no mention in this article... he is the best player on Denver and a future top 10 pick). You don't need a roster full of Canadians, but Canada is going to be one of the better ways for Michigan to grab guys with Blue Chip talent because they won't be battling with the Virginias, Hopkins and Syracuses of the world in most cases. They can get so much local talent that they typically ignore most Canadian prospects (obviously, there are exceptions to that rule).
Jamie Munro realized the importance of recruiting outside of the hotbeds long before Bill Tierney ever came to Denver. You can get role players and B level starters from the traditional areas... but you're never going to get a true game changer head to head over an ACC school. On the flip side, if you invest time building inroads to Canada and scout/court under the radar guys... you can steal a Kevin Crowley or Mark Matthews... and one or two A listers is often the difference between a tourney caliber team and a team that cannot compete with the big boys.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of ways to build a successful team. I've covered lacrosse in the midwest for IL for a couple years now and have seen Denver, Notre Dame and Ohio State all build competitive programs in very different ways. In the end I think Michigan gets their foundation from a blend of in-state talent and under-developed kids with high upside from out of state. But if Michigan is to ever going to get to Memorial Day it is likely going to be on the crafty stick work of a Canadian they found and the "traditional" powers overlooked.
Just my $0.02 from your friendly neighborhood Inside Lacrosse blogger. Really can't wait for the day when the Big Ten has lacrosse... that's going to be so much fun.
But A&M was 13-3 when he was there in '07 and best in their conference... I'd hardly call that "one of the worst" club teams. The only point I was trying to illustrate is that there is a big difference in talent between club (even the best MCLA teams) and the competitive DI teams (aka a team that could make the tourney). So even if you don't find my personal example relevant, you should hopefully agree with that.
You really know your stuff! Those timelines for ND are pretty close to accurate. And I think within 10 years Michigan should be an extremely competitive team... maybe even great depending on how they recruit Canada.
The thing I'm most looking forward to is Michigan vs. Ohio State in the Shoe before OSU's spring football game. I got to cover a game there for Inside Lacrosse three years ago when Notre Dame beat the piss out of the Buckeyes and the game set a regular season attendance record. Was an INCREDIBLE atmosphere... and I'm sure Michigan vs. Ohio State would blow it away.
The level of play is lightyears different. As I said in another thread, I had a friend from Texas A&M transfer to ND who was a starter and dominant club player. He couldn't even make ND's roster at our weakest position. That's how different the level of talent is.
Michigan can be competitive in 3-4 years. Expecting miracles before then is a bit optimistic.
I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this (sorry, I'm at work and have to skim... but seemed like some very good info and research!), but there is an exceptional amount of talent that comes from Canada every year (and isn't really accounted for in any "recruit rankings"). Denver, Syracuse (because of a deal they have with Native Americans from Canada/US to go to school there for free) and some other typically get a large number of their star players from Canada. And these guys are as good as any Americans... especially in settled 6-on-6 situations because of their box lacrosse pedigree.
Michigan's best chance to be a great team quickly is to start tapping into this resource. With their proximity to Canada and the brand of excellence that is Michigan hockey this should not be hard. If Michigan can start grabbing all of the Mark Matthews, John Grants and Kevin Crowleys they will be extremely competitive.
For perspective, Team Canada beat Team USA two world cups ago, beat them in the prelims this year and should've beaten them again in the finals were it not for a very lucky save. Canada is loaded and if you can concentrate that talen in a single school (re: Michigan) the sky is the limit.
Michigan, as a club team, could compete with the bottom-rung DI schools in their scrimamges. They'll get a quick infusion of talent from kids looking to be 4 year starters and build a program. When those kids are juniors, they should have a competitive team but likely won't have the talent to compete for a national championship.
You should expect a program arch like Penn State or Ohio State. Both of those teams now, on any given year, could make the tournament and play with just about anyone. But they're not perennial powers. Pennsylvania and Ohio both have a much larger HS talent pool to draw from than Michigan (currently). As lacrosse continues to grow in the Chicago area and in Michigan (already a couple really good teams up there) Michigan could potentially become a contender within the next decade or so. But it's not going to be fast.
It took Notre Dame a very long time to build a program even with all of the ties to the Catholic schools around the country. Now we're a perrenial top 10 team and capable of going .500 against ACC teams the last 5 years or so... but when we were starting off there were tremendous growing pains.
Michigan will be good. It's just a matter of time. I can't wait for the Big Ten to add lacrosse... that's going to be amazing for the sport. But just remember DI is much more competitive than the MCLA and you don't currently have the talent you need to play at a high level and it will take a couple years to develop. For example, one of my roommates at ND transferred from Texas A&M where he was a starter at attack and basically dominated. He couldn't even make the team at ND. That's the difference in talent between the two levels.
Recent Comments
I will be watching and actively cheering on Michigan tomorrow. I have a strong aversion to the Buckeyes from back in the GWLL days. Generally obnoxious people. For a long time they were our "rival" in the Midwest... but now we're out of conference and it's hard to really consider someone a "rival" anymore when you absolutely own them on the field.
The only thing I give them credit for is that in my first gig covering a game for Inside Lacrosse at the Horseshoe they were quite nice to the media and had good food in the press box. So there's that, I guess.
Unless you've got elite defensive talent like Maryland, Denver, etc. you really don't have a chance of stopping this Notre Dame offense. Notre Dame is going to score 12+ on everyone who is not a top defensive team or can't control faceoffs. Kavanagh and Perkovic are about as good as it gets in the country, Doyle/Ossello are very solid, Wynne is exactly what ND wants in a crease attack, and Corrigan is good at getting out of the way. The second line features an All-American midfielder and two really solid complimentary players. And that's not even considering top MLL draft pick 2-way middie Near who can push transition from D to O as good as anyone.
I thought Michigan could pull an upset today because of the flaws we saw against Georgetown... namely goal tending, but also inconsistent faceoff play that can keep the ball away from ND's offense. But Doss ate up most of the easy shots today and ND won faceoffs, and that's how you get the score we see. ND is a perennial final four team for a reason, and this year's team is strictly better than last year's squad that won the ACC and made the NCAA finals.
Clearly, Michigan is heading in the right dirrection. There has been obvious growth from Team 1 to now. This team has some very talented pieces, and will continue to attract top talent because of the elite academics/athletics coupled with the continued growth of lacrosse in the Midwest. You only have one Ian King right now when really you need 3-4 Ian Kings level players to seriously compete for a championship... and that will come in time.
Michigan is going to quickly overtake Ohio State (maybe even this year) because of superior academics, and should be close the gap on Penn State soon after even with Penn State's built in recruiting advantage with Pennsylvania talent. Then the question will be can Michigan take the next step and truly compete with Maryland/Hopkins? I'm not sure they can with John Paul at the helm. I think his ceiling as a coach is below "perennial contender"... but get someone like Presseler in Ann Arbor and the sky is the limit. Just like how Tierney transfored Denver from "pretty good" under Munro to #1 now.
Looking forward to more games in the future, thanks for being gracious hosts.
Great info, hope I can make it to the game. I think it'll be very competetitive, this is clearly a very different Michigan team from the past few seasons when they were getting their feet wet. They really appear to be turning the corner. Quint put the Wolverines in his Top 20 this week: http://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/quint-s-top-20-michigan-marquette…
As for ND, this years' team appears to be almost a polar opposite of the type of team people came to expect year-in and year-out. Suffocating defense, faceoff dominance, possession, and stellar goalie play were all Hallmarks of those teams that this squad doesn't have. This year the offense is potent with Kavanagh and Perkovic headlining a really top-to-bottom talented group. But the defense got worked by Georgetown, and the play in cage was terrible. ND was also sub-.500 at the X mainly because Ossello (who they're trying to use for instant offense) got dominated. So I'm expecting a 13-11 type game this week and I'm not sure who comes out on top.
Anyone know how hard it will be to get tickets? Thinking about coming up for the game but saw seating is only 1000 in Oosterbaan. It doesn't appear that this game will be broadcast anywhere?
From the game against Georgetown, I think Michigan has a strong chance to win. Notre Dame's offense is for real, but the goaltending is atrocious right now and that can be an Achilles' heel for any team. Faceoffs are a mixed bag and the midfield lines are also a bit funky, so this has high scoring upset written all over it.
Frankly, you'd get a great education at any of those three, and what you make out of yourself in life is dependant on so many other factors than where you went to undergrad.
If you approach college as strictly a return on investment standpoint, then you should be evaluating which schools excel in majors that will place you in a highly compensated field after graduation. Michigan embrasses Notre Dame (and Northwestern, to a degree) in almost all engineering disciplines. That's an easy choice.
With regards to business, Ross is pretty clearly superior Mendoza for graduate school. For undergrad though, anyone telling you that Mendoza sucks or you don't get placed well from there or whatever is either uninformed or lying to you. There are no facts to substantiate that Mendoza grads don't have truly elite job placement.
I went through a similar decision (Virginia [in-state tuition... great public university comparable to Michigan] vs. Notre Dame vs. non-big 3 Ivies)... all I can say is that if you're not going to Harvard/Princeton/Yale/Stanford I think your nephew should just pick the best fit and not look back. How comfortable he feels at his choice is probably the most important factor on how much "return" he gets on the investment your sister makes in his education.
If Ross is sooooooooo much better than Mendoza for undergrad, and their graduates are highly sought over for high paying jobs while Mendoza graduates get passed over, how do you explain this?
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-majors/bu…
Truth is ND is incredible at job placement, which is a large part of why Business Week ranks them high... because of where they place their graduates. Proof is in the pudding and Mendoza grads make a lot of scratch.
I never should've come on here. I haven't been on here since I created an account to talk lacrosse about Michigan's new team last year. That discussion went a lot differently. I'm obviously not going to change anyone's mind and that's fine... so time to check out of this topic.
If he spent 4 months on her instead of 3 years? Because that is how much time they were "dating" according to every news source out there. In the time preceding April/May 2012 and after September 2012 he has had real girlfriends.
But as a Mormon he can do just as much with his real girlfriends as a fake one... nothing at all until he is married.
Is every single post where you correct someone who has their facts wrong or present anything that doesn't say "whatever I don't care what he says he was in on it" or "whatever he's gay" gets immediately down voted.
I was directed to this thread by a bunch of Michigan engineers I work with... none of whom think Manti was in on it because they've actually paid attention to what has come out since the initial Deadspin article and we talk about it daily in the office. They told me the message board world was still thoroughly convinced he was in on it. I asked why and they said they want him to be in on it so nothing that comes out will change theirs minds.
The logic that "well, I think his story isn't plausible so he MUST be in on it" makes no sense. Our legal system doesn't work that way for a reason. It's darn near impossible to prove a negative. As an experiment, trying proving he was in on it. Try proving the other side you want so badly to believe.
How did he concoct this thing starting 2008 with someone he didn't know and had never met until November 2012? Why is there not a single person with first hand kmowledge who has come out on record and said they think he was in on it? Why has there not been a single piece of evidence uncovered so far implicating him in it with all of the digging that is going on? How do you explain the other 5 people hoaxed by Lennay from 2008 to 2012? How do you have a gay relationship with someone that you need to create a cover for if you've never met them until November 2012?
A large chunk of you already have your minds made up and that's your perogative. I hope at least a small portion of those who want to believe he was "in on it" take a step and try to be intellectually honest. You can still have your cake and eat it too... as Manti is clearly liar who lied about certain aspects of the relationship both during and after all of this... so he can still be a bad dude and shithead in your book.
But whatever, this is probably a waste of time as I'm sure this will just get downvoted and hidden too because it doesn't follow your desired narrative.
I corrected a mistatement. He only told his parents he "met" her in 2009 as a lie to explain how he knew her... that's the only reference to that. It has aboslutely no bearing on their contact level/relationship. The timeline is really simple if you actually look it up. They only "dated" from spring 2012 to her "Death" in Spetember. The post I repleid to said they dated for 3 years. That's what I corrected. So where am I wrong?
For over a week now. What have they turned up? A landslide of evidence backing up Manti's story and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON with firsthand knowledge to say he was "in on it." Nor a single shred of evidence implicating him.
The people Deadspin quoted have backed off their claims because they had no idea what they were talking about. One said "I'm 80% sure Manti must've been involved" as conjecture because he "didn't think Manti was dumb enough"... so not based on any evidence or fact, just his opinion.
The other source stated "Manti and Ronaih are family"... which is just flat out wrong. "Or maybe family friends"... something both the Te'o's or Tuiasosopo's have said isn't true.
So you had two people talking out of butts and speculating and discredited. But of course, you don't care. Because you want Manti to be in on it. So you'll just ignore everything else out there and stick to your conspiracy theories. That's your perogative.
The sheer amount of inaccuracies in this thread by posters who have their minds made up is crazy. It's well established they "dated" for only a couple months starting in the spring of 2012 until September of 2012 when she "died." Before that it was an occasional tweet or facebook message or call at most. From 2008 to 2012 there are at least 5 people who have come forward saying they were the victim of a similar hoax by "Lennay Kekua".
It was a polynesian fullback with no Notre Dame ties. Who knows what he meant or who he was referring to.
It's already been well established that he lied to parents about meeting her at Stanford and they're the ones who spread that story to the newspapers.
I'll totally believe Manti was in on the hoax as long as someone can explain to me:
1. How you have a gay relationship with someone you've never met? If the theory is this was all a cover of him being gay with Tuiasosopo then how do you explain him never having met him until late November 2012? The only person pointing to them having a pre-existing relationship is the one unnamed Deadspin source who said they "were family" (which shows she obviously had no clue what she was talking about) "or at least family friends" (according to both sides completely untrue).
2. If this is a hoax for publicity, how did they mastermind this elaborate scheme starting back in 2008? Just walk me through how you would go about planning this with someone you don't know.
3. Explain why in either of the above scenarios Tuiasosopo would've also hoaxed AT LEAST 5 other people as reported by ABC. If this is all a cover for being gay or a part of a big publicity stunt plan, why is he hoaxing other people as Lennay?
4. Explain why Te'o would try to check out this person within the Polynesian community if he was complict and wanted to keep this going as a cover. Wouldn't you, in fact, want to draw as few questions as possible to your cover?
5. Explain why dozens of people have come forward after the story broke saying that Tuiasosopo either confessed to them or that Manti was not in on it or that they were hoaxed by "Lennay" or a combination.... but there has not been a single named on the record source with firsthand knowledge at any point that has said Manti was involved.
If you can answer those five questions, I'll believe whatever you want. But some of you want sooooooooooo badly for Te'o to be "in on it" you're willing to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want that Te'o MUST be involved. It's sickening.
The obvious, simplest answer is that Te'o got hoaxed and then lied a bunch after the fact. See how few crazy explanations and rationales are needed to justify that? SMH.
Kansas State basically lucked into a close win thanks to some crucial turnovers by Oklahoma at big moments... won by 5 points. ND just dismantled Oklahoma and won convincingly by 3 scores.
You obviuosly did not watch the Kansas State vs. Oklahoma game.
In what universe is beating a team 20-3 and not letting them run a single play accross the 50 yard line "barely beating" them? That's 3 scores.
Who would you rank ahead of ND? Ohio State who actually barely beat MSU by a single point thanks to a fumble getting blown dead?
Very old news and really a neutral effect on Michigan... if anything, it makes the Wolverines' road to the NCAA tournament much easier because Denver is the only "top 10" team in the ECAC they would have to go through to get the AQ.
There is very little to no incentive for the ECAC to look into adding Detroit and I would strongly doubt that happens.
I meant in general over the past 5 years or so, not just with long term respect to the series. My fault as that was unclear, I should have been more specific. In recent years ND has one of the worst "home field advantages"... ranked 105th out of 120, to be specific. Link: http://www.onefootdown.com/2012/7/2/3132935/nd-ranked-105-out-of-120-in-study-of-cfb-homefield-advantage
Smart money says take anything Michigan +3 or better. When is there not a very close game in this series?
1. You do realize the guys reffing this game are Big Ten officials, right? Are you saying that Big Ten officials are going to be biased FOR Notre Dame?
2. Notre Dame is not an intimidating place to play whatsoever. Homefield advantage is basically zilch for ND... both in theory and practicality given ND's recent home record.
FWIW, I'd be tempted to pick Michigan straight up in this game given recent history, the injury to Jamoris Slaughter (i.e. get ready for a bunch of big plays against this secondary), and how crappy the right side of the line has played this year. This game could go eitehr way but either Denard is going to have to have an off day OR a maligned position for ND has to step up for Michigan to lose. If everybody brings their status quo game then ND probably loses because of a handful of big plays + inconsistent OL play. Just my opinion... an awful lot of question marks for ND that are being glossed over by playing sub-par offensive teams in first 3 games.
Do you mean structural? Or general civil?
If you're a structural guy my firm is going to likely have an opening in about a month or so. Not sure if they're going to try to hire a high level person or promote from within and have an entry level opening (I'm guessing strongly that it will be the latter).
We're located DC/MD/NoVA area. The guy in the cube next to me is a Michigan grad too, so you'd feel right at home ;)
Hit me up at [email protected] if you want more info. We do primarily repair and restoration engineering and construction management in the DC area. Job market is great out this way as the Government never stops spending..........
(Also a fun fact, we have no Ohio State employees despite having people from just about every other Big Ten school... we hired one OSU kid a couple months ago and saying he was an unintelligent catastrophic failure would be an understatement. He is no longer with us.)
You're saying that Business Week, who uses clear metrics that make perfect sense and look strongly at things like job placement, is not valid because......?
You say "insecure," I'd say they're only rational defending the academics. ND's degree has an ROI second to only Stanford in schools that play FBS football and is equivlent with Yale. Maybe you're the one who is uninformed.
Also, why on earth would you go to ND for grad school? The grad schools at ND suck.
As for the academic standards excuse.... you couldn't be more correct. It's a ridiculous cop out with no basis in fact. The foreign language requirement has hamstrung ND with a couple recruits, but "academic requirements" wouldn't make a list of the top dozen+ reasons why Notre Dame is awful at football. It's a sad, sad excuse.
I frequent IrishEnvy.com...... there has never been a single post on there about Hoke paying recruits or anything ridiculous like that. Nor anything Notre Dame winning a national championship this year unless it was someone being quite sarcastic. A poll conducted the other day shows that quite clearly with most thinking 8-4 with many thinking 7-5....
There is a thread about field turf because there's back-and-forth right now in the ND administration on whether to go forward with it. To say it's a done deal and that you got that from our board is... odd.
It seems like big portion of your post is just stuff you made up to say "oh look at those crazy stupid Domers!" I don't get it. Shrug.
ND does not lose 3 starters on the OL. They return their C, LG, and LT in Cave, Watt, and Zach Martin. They replace Taylor Dever and Trevor Robinson with (likely) Christian Lombard + 1 other fresh face.
They don't even come anywhere close to losing 6 starters on defense much less 4 in the secondary. They lose Gary Gray (sucked, see game last year against Michigan for evidence), Robert Blanton (eh... OK player) and Harrison Smith (really good and is likely the #2 safety off the board in the NFL draft). But they return Jamoris Slaughter who is probably a 4th round caliber NFL safety and Zeke Motta who has played a ton of football but sucks maybe even worse then Gary Gray. So they're basically replacing 2 starters at CB and shifting former co-starters into full time roels at safety.
They lost one "starter" at LB and none on the DL. Aaron Lynch, Louis Nix, and Stephon Tuitt are the DL starters plus Kapron Lewis-Moore coming back from injury. LB remains to be seen who actually gets starting nods but all players return except for Darius Fleming who was a starter but split reps at times with Ishaq Williams and Prince Shembo.
So with the "worst case" math ND loses 4 starters on defense in Gray, Blanton, Smith, and Fleming. Using "best case" math they are only replacing 2 starters with fresh faces... both at CB.
Yes, ND will suck this year and be lucky to go 7-5 because they will be worse than Oklahoma, USC, Stanford, and Michigan for absolute sure. But they aren't losing as many people as you said and I just wanted to correct that.
Congrats on your first win. Michigan has some good recruits already signed up in the next two classes and will be turning the corner into a competitive team in no time.
Almost as foolproof as the Chewbacca defense.
Both in your lifetime. Back to back BCS games. Beat #3 Michigan in '05. #2 preseason team in '06 (laughably overrated...) but were a top 10 team for almost the whole season.
Michigan hasn't been in a BCS game since '04 and '06... that's incredibly comparable to Notre Dame. Both games they lost, just like Notre Dame. Would you say Michigan is irrelevant? Of course not.
Relevance = filling stadium, still attracting good recruits, still pulling good TV ratings. The Under the Lights game this year showed just how relevant Michigan and Notre Dame still are... did you see the ratings for that game? Anyone arguing that Notre Dame is "irrelevant" either doesn't understand the word or is a hater. It's that simple.
Competitive? Hell no. Notre Dame absolutely sucks this year and hasn't been in the BCS picture for 5 straight seasons now. Don't confuse that with relevant.
Put yourself in Brian Kelly's shoes, where in here do you call the timeouts?
Usc 1-10 at Nd49 USC drive start at 06:43.
Usc 1-10 at Nd49 McNeal, Curtis rush for 15 yards to the ND34, 1ST DOWN USC (SMITH, H.;SLAUGHTER).
Usc 1-10 at Nd34 McNeal, Curtis rush for 4 yards to the ND30 (SHEMBO).
Usc 2-6 at Nd30 McNeal, Curtis rush for 1 yard to the ND29 (FOX).
Usc 3-5 at Nd29 PENALTY ND personal foul off-setting, PENALTY USC personal foul off-setting.
Usc 3-5 at Nd29 McNeal, Curtis rush for 14 yards to the ND15, 1ST DOWN USC (GRAY, G.;SMITH, H.).
Usc 1-10 at Nd15 McNeal, Curtis rush for 2 yards to the ND13 (GRAY, G.).
Usc 2-8 at Nd13 McNeal, Curtis rush for 4 yards to the ND9 (FOX).
Usc 3-4 at Nd09 Timeout USC, clock 02:41.
Usc 3-4 at Nd09 McNeal, Curtis rush for 5 yards to the ND4, 1ST DOWN USC (NIX;FOX).
Usc 1-G at Nd04 McNeal, Curtis rush for loss of 2 yards to the ND6 (NIX;GRAY, G.).
Usc 2-G at Nd06 McNeal, Curtis rush for 2 yards to the ND4 (LYNCH;SLAUGHTER).
Usc 3-G at Nd04 McNeal, Curtis rush for 2 yards to the ND2 (TUITT;FLEMING).
Usc 4-G at Nd02 End of game, clock 00:00.
Obviously, you start off wanting to save your timeouts and get a stop... then USC picks up a first down on 3rd and 5 with about ~4:30 minutes left on the clock. Still time to get the stop and save your time outs... but then McNeal picks up a 1st down on 3rd and 4 with about 2 minutes left inside the ND 10. At this point you can either blow all your timeouts and get the ball back with about 1:40 down 3 scores... or take the loss. I can see someone saying that not using your timeouts here is "quitting" but I don't know if there is a team in the history of college football who has come back from being down 3 scores in 1:40. If there is, I'd love to see a link to it.
Is that every mistake is amplified x1000. BK yells at a player? OMG HE'S THE DEVIL!! WHAT A BAD MAN!!! And I'm still hearing about it on ESPN. Notre Dame doesn't use their timeouts when USC has the ball inside the ND 10 with 2 minutes left down 14? OMG THEY'RE QUITTERS!!! QUIT QUIT QUIT!!! HAHA ND SUX!!!
Meanwhile Nick Saban flips out in a press conference and curses at the media and everyone just laughs it off. Oh that Nick Saban... his temper is so adorable. Nick Saban also grabbed a kid by the facemask and chewed him out basically spitting in his face. On natonal TV. And no one cares.
It is just insane the microscope Brian Kelly is under. I think about some of the stuff I heard our lax coach say to the players and refs during games... and I just crack up thinking about what the reaction would be if he had to live in the same fishbowl as Kelly.
It can and will become a big time sport in Michigan. Just a matter of time. It's an incredibly fun sport and the physicality of the game (like hockey) lends itself well to football fans.
I covered the record setting game hosted by Ohio State against Notre Dame in 2009 for Inside Lacrosse. Was a lot of fun to see 30k+ fans at the game, and they were pretty into it in the first half but after ND went on a 7-0 run in 3rd quarter they got pretty darn quiet, which was disappointing. Can't imagine what the game will be like between Michigan and Ohio State before spring football games... Michigan is probably about 3 years away from really being able to compete with Ohio State, but they'll get there. Michigan is already recruiting pretty well and will continue to pick up steam over at least the '13 and '14 classes as kids look for early playing time.
Hope that either the University of Michigan or some donors pony up the money for facilities. ND was lucky enough to have the Arlottas donate the best lacrosse only stadium/facilities in country... and it really does have a wow factor on recruits who see how much better things are in South Bend than at some east coast power houses like Duke and UNC. Johns Hopkins is just now starting to build new facilities to keep up.
...puts heavy emphasis on research (which Notre Dame does not) and in general is incredibly flawed. "Ranking" schools is silly as a concept, but it becomes truly ridiculous when you see something like this.
ND comes in #9 on ROI for a degree; and then if you look at SAT scores, GPAs, etc. of the kids getting in there it is CLEARLY a better school than Ohio State or Michigan State. #200+ is just absurd and completely invalidates the "methodology."
This is by the same US News people not using the QS methodology: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+2
And this is ROI on your degree: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/06/30/top-20-colleges-that-offer-best-return-on-investment/
USC "cold shouldered" him out the door (can't blame them, they have like five thousand 5* WRs), Cal sucks, and Notre Dame hasn't been recruiting him hard for multiple months now. I seriously have no idea why he is still visiting for the USC game. Maybe just to hang out... maybe to do some recruiting for Michigan... who knows. But I will be socked if he doesn't commit to Michigan.
Very good player. Premptive congrats.
Like when Mouton got suspended retroactivley for punching a Notre Dame guy. If Dantonio has any morals (which he doesn't) he would suspend him right now for their next game after watching the replay. Then again, Rich Rod didn't suspend Mouton and tried to defend him punching a player.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4485462
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPYueAc5XAE
...is full of a bunch of mouth breathers. I refuse to believe I attended school with any of the people on that site. Sadly, I'm sure I did.
That was an insane game. The most on the edge of my seat I have ever been since the Bush Push game. And even more heartbreaking.
Notre Dame is losing these games because we suck and have no leadership. Period. No excuses. No blame. You just have to totally suck to let a guy get loose for 64 yards with 23 seconds left to play with a secondary full of upperclassmen.
Congrats on your win. And you all should root for us next week... because no one likes to see mass suicide, right? Also, ND kicks rule breakers out of school instead of letting them play without suspension like MSU which means we're the more morally acceptable school to root for.*
*yes, that is sarcasm.
Is really flawed. Tulsa, besides their opening drive, couldn't move the ball and only had one offensive TD in the whole game. They got their points off of a blocked XP, int return for a TD, punt return for a TD, etc. Navy runs a completely and utterly different offense than Michigan.
I think Michigan wins but it has nothing to do with Navy or Tulsa or anything that happened last year. It has everything to do with the environment that the Irish will walk into at the Big House and the fact that Michigan will be much better on defense. I just don't see Notre Dame scoring many points and I see Denard going Superman at least a couple times.
The record setter in '09 when Notre Dame beat the crap out of Ohio State in the 'Shoe. Was right before their spring game and a great atmosphere. Great way to get people who wouldn't usually turn up for a lacrosse game exposed to the sport.
I think with it being Michigan vs. Ohio State in the Big House it will be even better. Hopefully they can start doing that rivalry matchup before the spring game each year alternating between the 'Shoe and the Big House.
But if by some highly unprobable miracle ND starts 6-1 or 7-0 (emphasis on the miracle) with a victory over USC and Georgia has a slow start he is going to be Irish (iif Byron Marshall isn't already onboard). Keith is really tight with current ND commit Ronald Darby and that plus Butch Davis getting fired at UNC has put us solidly in his top 2.
I also agree with the above poster who says he doesn't have the running style/build to take 25 carries a game in the Big Ten. He is very much an APB who will likely work best in a split backfield where he gets ~15 touches a game.
Here we come.
is that the game is late enough that they might have developed a QB by then... but if this game was early Michigan wins it convincingly. I expect Michigan to be much better on defense with how stout their DL should be against the run... and OSU doesn't look like a team prepared to air it out.
There are quite a few athletes (mostly outside of football) who take academics very seriously. A good example would be Tim Abromaitis who is ridiculously impressive student and Chris Stewart who was a full-time law student in his 5th year at Notre Dame.
People are 100% right that admissions "standards" being a recruiting issue is largely total bullshit. But there are things (for instance, having to take a foreign language in high school or you cannot qualify) that are non-negotiable and bar recruits from admittance. We saw this recently with Jordan Prestwood who had to take summer school courses in Spanish to qualify and a CA RB named Byron Marshall who is electing to take optional summer courses in high school to qualify for ND because right now he cannot be admitted. A lot of times a kid will scoff at these requirements and go to USC or Alabama or wherever instead of spending their summer taking optional classes to qualify/
Other points of note: Notre Dame also takes no JUCO transfers because the administration, forces all 5th year players to be full-tim purusing a grad school degree or 5 year dual-degree program (i.e. no Matt Leinart taking ball room dancing as his only class), and pushes all students to graduate in 4 years in real majors with a lot of success.
Also, there are no majors aimed directly at athletes. That doesn't mean there aren't easy majors available to all students, but as an athlete who went through ND I can assure you there aren't set-aside programs.
They ran the ball pretty well against USC... nothing great but 147 yards on 4.6 YPC. And pounded the ball on the ground for the game winning drive.
On the "Even Denver, who received the most hype of any team for the way they were recruiting out of Canada since supposedly it was key to their rise from nothing to the Final Four in two years, only has 4 players from our neighbor to the North" if you take away the Canadians from Denver they probably don't break .500 this year. Mark Matthews is an incredible talent and their whole offense ran through him. And Jeremy Noble/Cameron Flint were a HUGE difference makers on that team. When 3 out of their 5 best players are from Canada (accounting for over 40% of their goals from just three Canadian players) it's kinda crazy to downplay the impact of Canadian recruiting.
While there might not be a high quantity of players on the roster at any given time they've been an integral part of keep Denver competitive for years because they are often the most talented guys/key players. Case and point is Mark Matthews (who surprisingly got no mention in this article... he is the best player on Denver and a future top 10 pick). You don't need a roster full of Canadians, but Canada is going to be one of the better ways for Michigan to grab guys with Blue Chip talent because they won't be battling with the Virginias, Hopkins and Syracuses of the world in most cases. They can get so much local talent that they typically ignore most Canadian prospects (obviously, there are exceptions to that rule).
Jamie Munro realized the importance of recruiting outside of the hotbeds long before Bill Tierney ever came to Denver. You can get role players and B level starters from the traditional areas... but you're never going to get a true game changer head to head over an ACC school. On the flip side, if you invest time building inroads to Canada and scout/court under the radar guys... you can steal a Kevin Crowley or Mark Matthews... and one or two A listers is often the difference between a tourney caliber team and a team that cannot compete with the big boys.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of ways to build a successful team. I've covered lacrosse in the midwest for IL for a couple years now and have seen Denver, Notre Dame and Ohio State all build competitive programs in very different ways. In the end I think Michigan gets their foundation from a blend of in-state talent and under-developed kids with high upside from out of state. But if Michigan is to ever going to get to Memorial Day it is likely going to be on the crafty stick work of a Canadian they found and the "traditional" powers overlooked.
Just my $0.02 from your friendly neighborhood Inside Lacrosse blogger. Really can't wait for the day when the Big Ten has lacrosse... that's going to be so much fun.
But A&M was 13-3 when he was there in '07 and best in their conference... I'd hardly call that "one of the worst" club teams. The only point I was trying to illustrate is that there is a big difference in talent between club (even the best MCLA teams) and the competitive DI teams (aka a team that could make the tourney). So even if you don't find my personal example relevant, you should hopefully agree with that.
You really know your stuff! Those timelines for ND are pretty close to accurate. And I think within 10 years Michigan should be an extremely competitive team... maybe even great depending on how they recruit Canada.
The thing I'm most looking forward to is Michigan vs. Ohio State in the Shoe before OSU's spring football game. I got to cover a game there for Inside Lacrosse three years ago when Notre Dame beat the piss out of the Buckeyes and the game set a regular season attendance record. Was an INCREDIBLE atmosphere... and I'm sure Michigan vs. Ohio State would blow it away.
The level of play is lightyears different. As I said in another thread, I had a friend from Texas A&M transfer to ND who was a starter and dominant club player. He couldn't even make ND's roster at our weakest position. That's how different the level of talent is.
Michigan can be competitive in 3-4 years. Expecting miracles before then is a bit optimistic.
I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this (sorry, I'm at work and have to skim... but seemed like some very good info and research!), but there is an exceptional amount of talent that comes from Canada every year (and isn't really accounted for in any "recruit rankings"). Denver, Syracuse (because of a deal they have with Native Americans from Canada/US to go to school there for free) and some other typically get a large number of their star players from Canada. And these guys are as good as any Americans... especially in settled 6-on-6 situations because of their box lacrosse pedigree.
Michigan's best chance to be a great team quickly is to start tapping into this resource. With their proximity to Canada and the brand of excellence that is Michigan hockey this should not be hard. If Michigan can start grabbing all of the Mark Matthews, John Grants and Kevin Crowleys they will be extremely competitive.
For perspective, Team Canada beat Team USA two world cups ago, beat them in the prelims this year and should've beaten them again in the finals were it not for a very lucky save. Canada is loaded and if you can concentrate that talen in a single school (re: Michigan) the sky is the limit.
Michigan, as a club team, could compete with the bottom-rung DI schools in their scrimamges. They'll get a quick infusion of talent from kids looking to be 4 year starters and build a program. When those kids are juniors, they should have a competitive team but likely won't have the talent to compete for a national championship.
You should expect a program arch like Penn State or Ohio State. Both of those teams now, on any given year, could make the tournament and play with just about anyone. But they're not perennial powers. Pennsylvania and Ohio both have a much larger HS talent pool to draw from than Michigan (currently). As lacrosse continues to grow in the Chicago area and in Michigan (already a couple really good teams up there) Michigan could potentially become a contender within the next decade or so. But it's not going to be fast.
It took Notre Dame a very long time to build a program even with all of the ties to the Catholic schools around the country. Now we're a perrenial top 10 team and capable of going .500 against ACC teams the last 5 years or so... but when we were starting off there were tremendous growing pains.
Michigan will be good. It's just a matter of time. I can't wait for the Big Ten to add lacrosse... that's going to be amazing for the sport. But just remember DI is much more competitive than the MCLA and you don't currently have the talent you need to play at a high level and it will take a couple years to develop. For example, one of my roommates at ND transferred from Texas A&M where he was a starter at attack and basically dominated. He couldn't even make the team at ND. That's the difference in talent between the two levels.