If you knew how it would play out, would you still want Sherrone or would you have rather gone in another direction? One of the biggest selling points for Sherrone was the possibility of keeping most of the coaching staff. That was obviously way off base and the process has been disastrous. I like Sherrone but with this many new faces, it would be better to have a more experienced head coach in my opinion. Meanwhile, Harbaugh is playing chess by recommending Wink to Michigan knowing it would send Clink and Elston to the Chargers. Smart on his part.
It all got a lot worse when Jett came to Michigan. I don’t know if that caused any of the dysfunction that’s permeated the team since, but he led the charge for the no-defense club.
We're not using as much of our money to pay for the head coach.
We're not using our money to keep our S&C coordinator or defensive coordinator.
Where does all the Big Ten money go? Sounds like we're saving a lot of it this year. Unfortunately, that doesn't help the fans in any way whatsoever - ticket prices aren't going to drop. Maybe some of the athletic department admin will get a bonus? There is nothing that will "trickle down" to the fan experience. If they're not using the savings to make the team better, we get nothing from his austerity plan. As a fan this is very frustrating, and the fan relationship with Warde is not salvageable at this point. Whether or not it's his fault, I think Michigan has to move on.
This is all on Warde. Offering a former co-worker a job at your new company is pretty common, so I don't blame Harbaugh. If Michigan would've made a good offer, Herbert would've stayed. However, that would require Warde to actually do something, so we never had a shot.
It's unfortunate that the regents and president are letting Warde hamstring the first time head coach we just promoted.
I don’t think Warde expects to change anything ever. His preference has always been the path of least effort. Status Quo is his top choice in most circumstances.
When Deboer took over Alabama, didn’t he hire a couple of sitting head coaches to be his coordinators? That sounds much better than a fired NFL retread guy. Moore may lose some goodwill with this, if it is Hurtt.
I agree. If a lot of the big pieces are moving on, then I would rather just start with someone that will bring their own staff. Fisch or DeBoer would be better at assembling a staff and they have already proven they can win as a head coach.
I like Moore, but I like him a whole lot better with Minter attached. Without that, I'd rather have one of the guys listed above. Moore would still be a good option, but the main selling point is the continuation of the previous few years. If coaches are leaving, then that is pretty much moot anyway.
Big 10: We only lost because Michigan cheated. When they don't cheat, they're not as good and they wouldn't have beaten us.
SEC: We only lose because we play the hardest schedule known to man in the hardest conference ever in existence. Every loss is a good loss. Anyone else that came to the SEC would lose to these teams too.
Michigan losing to Alabama helps both these narratives. Big 10 and SEC coaches are in agreement on what they'd like to happen - the outcome that reinforces the narratives they've been using all year.
I think the SEC thinks they are the best conference. So, if they couldn't stop Milroe, then nobody can. It makes them look good if Alabama does well. With the Big 10, that's not even close to the mindset. Most of the teams know they have zero chance of ever reaching the expanded playoffs, and they just want to see Michigan taken down a peg.
I'm sure there are SEC people that would like Alabama taken down a peg too, but only if it's by another SEC team. They all benefit from the perception of the SEC as the most dominant conference. It has definitely paid off for them through rankings, bowl invites, etc. If it weren't for the SEC dominance angle, Alabama probably wouldn't even have made the playoffs this year.
It's weird that people that make a large portion of their income betting on games seem way more interested in knowing actual rosters and facts instead of listening to narratives. Bud is the most serious gambler in the college football landscape, which is why I like listening to that show. At least they put their money where their mouth is and keep track of their picks. Bud definitely bets a lot of his own stuff and does a ton of research.
EDIT: Also, if you are betting on Michigan, it's better to have everyone else really confident in Alabama. By the day of the game, the spread might have swayed even further and we end up getting more a favorable spread and better odds on the money line.
Right, it's a playoff game with a 1 point spread. Both teams are likely to struggle relative to their performance against other squads. It's not crazy that people think we'll have a hard time with certain aspects of Alabama's team. It's doesn't mean people can't think otherwise, but let's not pretend this is massive Disrespekt. For motivation purposes, I would much rather have everyone saying that Alabama is going to win anyway.
The best OL still seem to be grown through recruiting and development - that's why Colorado still stunk it up this year. Michigan has gotten some good ones (maybe done the best with portal OLs), but still need Zinters, Keegans, and others on your roster.
Upton Stout may also be in the mix if he ends up transferring here too. Not sure how many transfer CBs they want to take though - Stout is more of a slot corner.
It’s an entirely different format after this year, so we have no idea what the impact of scheduling these games will be in the future. Texas and Florida State both scheduled tough out of conference games and won. Alabama lost at home. Alabama thought they’d need a tough OOC win because they might lose an SEC game. However, the SEC was bad this year so the bigger challenge was the OOC game. That’s the risk/reward. Going forward, who knows?
I liked the emotion Moore showed after the game last week, but I still would be disappointed if he was the permanent head coach. The gameplan and tempo when he coaches give me Hoke vibes. Letting the other team get short gains down the field by playing off and being super predictable on offense are not a good recipe. Even when we win, it’s hard to watch.
You're right that he didn't make a public statement. I still feel like making inflammatory comments in front of people that you know will leak the information is still definitely a misstep. We'll see how he handles it all today.
You are absolutely correct that the leaks are putting pressure on him. If nothing else, he will hopefully have a better poker face going forward and won't say things that encourage the mob.
I think Petitti beginning with the threat to suspend Harbaugh indefinitely was a massive blunder. He very publicly backed himself into a corner and is going to come out looking pretty bad in the end. He should've fined Michigan whatever amount of money it costs to outfit Big Ten teams with helmet communication (implemented next year). Then the problem would go away in the future and the punishment would make sense (Michigan covers the initial cost of the transition to helmet communication). If that was his initial reaction, I think all parties would've moved on by now, and Petitti's future with the Big Ten would seem more promising. Instead, he handled this like an absolute novice.
This one is the hardest for me to understand. Everything else Stalions did was the most super-fan thing to do. This would be the first example of him intentionally harming the team or members of the team. I don't know if he was doing it for clout or it was some misguided way to help Blake, but the motivation isn't as immediate obvious as his other schemes.
Blake owns an LLC based in Virginia with a similar name. Buckeyes are saying that LLC went inactive, then became active again when all the Stalions stuff started. So, they are clearly implying there was a connection. I have no idea how to check any of that, and no reason to not take Blake at his word. This is just harder for me to understand than the other stuff. I have personal experience being an overboard fan, but I don't have any personal experience or understanding with LLCs. So, I will be waiting for the next update to maybe get some clarity on the upside of this plot.
For people asking what's the big deal even if they were in business together, it seems like it would be an obvious violation for a player to be involved in a business partnership with a coach/staffer. I can't imagine that would ever be allowed, but maybe there are examples from elsewhere. It would be a huge recruiting tool if it was possible.
Cover 3 podcast has been pretty sensible overall about it. Danny Kanell is also on that show, so he's probably the worst. When they talk about he story, they mostly mention any relevant updates and move on. They move on to actual games pretty quickly. Also, Bud Elliot talks a lot about every school that's serious about football stealing signs and using whatever they can do. Mostly it's just jokes about how poorly executed (stupid) the whole operation was. I would recommend that show as a national option.
100% agree that Neuheisel and Childers has been bad. They seem to be the least informed but have the strongest opinions, and they talk about it the longest. I don't think I can go back to that show even when this passes - no credibility and neither guy is particularly entertaining. Dusty and Danny is fine - you know what you get with them (Danny pretty open about his love of trolling). Neuheisel has commented on how he and Harbaugh didn't get along when they coached in the PAC-12, so he's never shy to heap it on. Childers is just a hot-take guy that doesn't know the game very well. He loves topics like this, so he can just do his hot takes all day.
I never listen to Budden and Manuel, so I couldn't speak on that one.
There are rumors that Michigan (Stalions) has practice footage from OSU. I have no idea if that is true or not. That rumor continues with the idea that OSU discovered the hack of their footage and hired the private investigators at that time. At least that is the story they will probably use if they are discovered to have hired the outside firm. In this scenario, the potentially damaging information is that Michigan (Stalions) had OSU's practice footage. If that is the bombshell, then this theory may be correct.
I think Stapleton is still a possibility though - I would just have him lower than OSU.
I have no idea what is or isn't true with this entire fiasco. Stalions could write a really wild memoir one day.
Schools have to comply with FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act). That usually applies mostly to school records (grades, attendance, discipline, etc.) but covers a lot of other personal information as well. Schools aren't allowed to release this information without consent from the student. It probably doesn't apply in this case though.
It's a requirement of his current contract. Contractually, he has to receive a notice like this before he can be officially terminated. If they don't provide this notification and an opportunity for him to refute the allegations within, they cannot fire him for cause. If they didn't go through this process, they'd still be on the hook to pay him.
It said this was the first game she had watched since it happened, so it sounded like she was avoiding them for the most part. At some point, she has to live her life out the world though. Half of the people at football parties don't even watch most of the game. I don't know her thinking, but it doesn't sound odd to me at all.
I would want to move as well, but she has at least one other child that lives in this area. Losing your child is the worst possible thing that could happen. I don't think that leaving all of your support group and moving away from your other children is helpful. Without knowing the family's circumstances, it's impossible to know their options or the ramifications of each.
Recent Comments
We will not start the season as one of the two highest ranked big ten teams. Ohio State and Oregon will both start the season in the top 5.
We promoted 2 offensive coaches and 0 defensive coaches. That heavily influenced the stay vs. go decisions.
If you knew how it would play out, would you still want Sherrone or would you have rather gone in another direction? One of the biggest selling points for Sherrone was the possibility of keeping most of the coaching staff. That was obviously way off base and the process has been disastrous. I like Sherrone but with this many new faces, it would be better to have a more experienced head coach in my opinion. Meanwhile, Harbaugh is playing chess by recommending Wink to Michigan knowing it would send Clink and Elston to the Chargers. Smart on his part.
It all got a lot worse when Jett came to Michigan. I don’t know if that caused any of the dysfunction that’s permeated the team since, but he led the charge for the no-defense club.
The NCAA commented on burger-gate for sure.
Where does all the Big Ten money go? Sounds like we're saving a lot of it this year. Unfortunately, that doesn't help the fans in any way whatsoever - ticket prices aren't going to drop. Maybe some of the athletic department admin will get a bonus? There is nothing that will "trickle down" to the fan experience. If they're not using the savings to make the team better, we get nothing from his austerity plan. As a fan this is very frustrating, and the fan relationship with Warde is not salvageable at this point. Whether or not it's his fault, I think Michigan has to move on.
This is all on Warde. Offering a former co-worker a job at your new company is pretty common, so I don't blame Harbaugh. If Michigan would've made a good offer, Herbert would've stayed. However, that would require Warde to actually do something, so we never had a shot.
It's unfortunate that the regents and president are letting Warde hamstring the first time head coach we just promoted.
I don’t think Warde expects to change anything ever. His preference has always been the path of least effort. Status Quo is his top choice in most circumstances.
When Deboer took over Alabama, didn’t he hire a couple of sitting head coaches to be his coordinators? That sounds much better than a fired NFL retread guy. Moore may lose some goodwill with this, if it is Hurtt.
I agree. If a lot of the big pieces are moving on, then I would rather just start with someone that will bring their own staff. Fisch or DeBoer would be better at assembling a staff and they have already proven they can win as a head coach.
I like Moore, but I like him a whole lot better with Minter attached. Without that, I'd rather have one of the guys listed above. Moore would still be a good option, but the main selling point is the continuation of the previous few years. If coaches are leaving, then that is pretty much moot anyway.
Absolutely dominated in the second half.
Self Preservation and Rationalization.
Big 10: We only lost because Michigan cheated. When they don't cheat, they're not as good and they wouldn't have beaten us.
SEC: We only lose because we play the hardest schedule known to man in the hardest conference ever in existence. Every loss is a good loss. Anyone else that came to the SEC would lose to these teams too.
Michigan losing to Alabama helps both these narratives. Big 10 and SEC coaches are in agreement on what they'd like to happen - the outcome that reinforces the narratives they've been using all year.
I think the SEC thinks they are the best conference. So, if they couldn't stop Milroe, then nobody can. It makes them look good if Alabama does well. With the Big 10, that's not even close to the mindset. Most of the teams know they have zero chance of ever reaching the expanded playoffs, and they just want to see Michigan taken down a peg.
I'm sure there are SEC people that would like Alabama taken down a peg too, but only if it's by another SEC team. They all benefit from the perception of the SEC as the most dominant conference. It has definitely paid off for them through rankings, bowl invites, etc. If it weren't for the SEC dominance angle, Alabama probably wouldn't even have made the playoffs this year.
It's weird that people that make a large portion of their income betting on games seem way more interested in knowing actual rosters and facts instead of listening to narratives. Bud is the most serious gambler in the college football landscape, which is why I like listening to that show. At least they put their money where their mouth is and keep track of their picks. Bud definitely bets a lot of his own stuff and does a ton of research.
EDIT: Also, if you are betting on Michigan, it's better to have everyone else really confident in Alabama. By the day of the game, the spread might have swayed even further and we end up getting more a favorable spread and better odds on the money line.
Right, it's a playoff game with a 1 point spread. Both teams are likely to struggle relative to their performance against other squads. It's not crazy that people think we'll have a hard time with certain aspects of Alabama's team. It's doesn't mean people can't think otherwise, but let's not pretend this is massive Disrespekt. For motivation purposes, I would much rather have everyone saying that Alabama is going to win anyway.
The best OL still seem to be grown through recruiting and development - that's why Colorado still stunk it up this year. Michigan has gotten some good ones (maybe done the best with portal OLs), but still need Zinters, Keegans, and others on your roster.
Upton Stout may also be in the mix if he ends up transferring here too. Not sure how many transfer CBs they want to take though - Stout is more of a slot corner.
It’s an entirely different format after this year, so we have no idea what the impact of scheduling these games will be in the future. Texas and Florida State both scheduled tough out of conference games and won. Alabama lost at home. Alabama thought they’d need a tough OOC win because they might lose an SEC game. However, the SEC was bad this year so the bigger challenge was the OOC game. That’s the risk/reward. Going forward, who knows?
JJ needs to be way better about getting rid of the ball. He loses so many yards taking these sacks.
Sherrone Moore removing his name from consideration as Harbaugh successor. This is a terrible performance.
Maybe let Jay be the head coach next week.
I hate that Brady Hoke is our interim coach.
What was Graham thinking with that late hit? He blew that drive.
Sherrone Moore loves running on third and long more than anyone I’ve ever seen.
I liked the emotion Moore showed after the game last week, but I still would be disappointed if he was the permanent head coach. The gameplan and tempo when he coaches give me Hoke vibes. Letting the other team get short gains down the field by playing off and being super predictable on offense are not a good recipe. Even when we win, it’s hard to watch.
The week before Ohio State always sucks. It will be even worse this year with Moore going ultra conservative.
Sherrone Moore is way too conservative when he’s in the head coaching role. It’s a lot less fun to watch.
Regardless of outcome, I have hated the Sherrone Moore head coach experiment.
Dear God I hope that Sherrone is never our head coach. Way too conservative. It’s like going back in time to an era I was hoping to never see again.
Moore is being way too conservative.
What the actual fuck is going on with all of the run calls?
We’re getting absolutely destroyed on both sides of the line.
Sherrone Moore is not a realistic option for permanent head coach if this is the type of results he delivers. Godawful so far.
I thought the bowling green game was the worst of the 3 without Harbaugh. Hopefully Moore does better this time.
Barnhart has to come out. He torpedoed that drive. 3 brutal mistakes - put someone else in.
Barnhart has to come out. He torpedoed that drive. 3 brutal mistakes - put someone else in.
Burn it down
You're right that he didn't make a public statement. I still feel like making inflammatory comments in front of people that you know will leak the information is still definitely a misstep. We'll see how he handles it all today.
You are absolutely correct that the leaks are putting pressure on him. If nothing else, he will hopefully have a better poker face going forward and won't say things that encourage the mob.
I also think a fine will be announced.
I think Petitti beginning with the threat to suspend Harbaugh indefinitely was a massive blunder. He very publicly backed himself into a corner and is going to come out looking pretty bad in the end. He should've fined Michigan whatever amount of money it costs to outfit Big Ten teams with helmet communication (implemented next year). Then the problem would go away in the future and the punishment would make sense (Michigan covers the initial cost of the transition to helmet communication). If that was his initial reaction, I think all parties would've moved on by now, and Petitti's future with the Big Ten would seem more promising. Instead, he handled this like an absolute novice.
This one is the hardest for me to understand. Everything else Stalions did was the most super-fan thing to do. This would be the first example of him intentionally harming the team or members of the team. I don't know if he was doing it for clout or it was some misguided way to help Blake, but the motivation isn't as immediate obvious as his other schemes.
Blake owns an LLC based in Virginia with a similar name. Buckeyes are saying that LLC went inactive, then became active again when all the Stalions stuff started. So, they are clearly implying there was a connection. I have no idea how to check any of that, and no reason to not take Blake at his word. This is just harder for me to understand than the other stuff. I have personal experience being an overboard fan, but I don't have any personal experience or understanding with LLCs. So, I will be waiting for the next update to maybe get some clarity on the upside of this plot.
For people asking what's the big deal even if they were in business together, it seems like it would be an obvious violation for a player to be involved in a business partnership with a coach/staffer. I can't imagine that would ever be allowed, but maybe there are examples from elsewhere. It would be a huge recruiting tool if it was possible.
Cover 3 podcast has been pretty sensible overall about it. Danny Kanell is also on that show, so he's probably the worst. When they talk about he story, they mostly mention any relevant updates and move on. They move on to actual games pretty quickly. Also, Bud Elliot talks a lot about every school that's serious about football stealing signs and using whatever they can do. Mostly it's just jokes about how poorly executed (stupid) the whole operation was. I would recommend that show as a national option.
100% agree that Neuheisel and Childers has been bad. They seem to be the least informed but have the strongest opinions, and they talk about it the longest. I don't think I can go back to that show even when this passes - no credibility and neither guy is particularly entertaining. Dusty and Danny is fine - you know what you get with them (Danny pretty open about his love of trolling). Neuheisel has commented on how he and Harbaugh didn't get along when they coached in the PAC-12, so he's never shy to heap it on. Childers is just a hot-take guy that doesn't know the game very well. He loves topics like this, so he can just do his hot takes all day.
I never listen to Budden and Manuel, so I couldn't speak on that one.
I borrowed money from a "loan wolf" once. Never again.
There are rumors that Michigan (Stalions) has practice footage from OSU. I have no idea if that is true or not. That rumor continues with the idea that OSU discovered the hack of their footage and hired the private investigators at that time. At least that is the story they will probably use if they are discovered to have hired the outside firm. In this scenario, the potentially damaging information is that Michigan (Stalions) had OSU's practice footage. If that is the bombshell, then this theory may be correct.
I think Stapleton is still a possibility though - I would just have him lower than OSU.
I have no idea what is or isn't true with this entire fiasco. Stalions could write a really wild memoir one day.
Schools have to comply with FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act). That usually applies mostly to school records (grades, attendance, discipline, etc.) but covers a lot of other personal information as well. Schools aren't allowed to release this information without consent from the student. It probably doesn't apply in this case though.
Dana Nessel went to Michigan for her undergrad. The Governor is a Sparty, but the AG is a Michigan alum.
The big news was that Wyld Stallions also sent someone to a Clemson game? I don’t think that adds anything to the discussion.
It's a requirement of his current contract. Contractually, he has to receive a notice like this before he can be officially terminated. If they don't provide this notification and an opportunity for him to refute the allegations within, they cannot fire him for cause. If they didn't go through this process, they'd still be on the hook to pay him.
Yep. They’ll probably even solve a couple of them during this transfer window.
It said this was the first game she had watched since it happened, so it sounded like she was avoiding them for the most part. At some point, she has to live her life out the world though. Half of the people at football parties don't even watch most of the game. I don't know her thinking, but it doesn't sound odd to me at all.
I would want to move as well, but she has at least one other child that lives in this area. Losing your child is the worst possible thing that could happen. I don't think that leaving all of your support group and moving away from your other children is helpful. Without knowing the family's circumstances, it's impossible to know their options or the ramifications of each.