MGoPodcast 9.13: A Very Brady Hoke Well

Note: This podcast was recorded before all coaching Hell broke loose. Also before the Speight news.

mgopodcast 9.13

This was recorded at the Residence Inn Ann Arbor in one of their TEN conference rooms.

We Couldn’t Have One Without the Other

We can do this because people support us. You should support them too so they’ll want to do it again next year! The show is presented by UGP & The Bo Store, and if it wasn’t for Rishi and Ryan we’d be sighing to ourselves.

Our other sponsors are also key to all of this: HomeSure Lending, Peak Wealth Management, Ann Arbor Elder Law, the Residence Inn Ann Arbor Downtown, the University of Michigan Alumni Association, Michigan Law Grad,Human Element, Lantana Hummus and new this week introducing Ecotelligent Homes



starts at 1:00

We sympathize and agree with John O’Korn. Chris Evans coming out party: loved the motion stuff they did with him and Higdon on the field. Option routes are confirmed in the most horrific way imaginable. What a brilliant gameplan.


starts at 17:57

Valiant effort followed by a late fade when all hope is lost, as predicted. Hudson and Gary payoffs. Rampant first quarter, Gary went out to give them a hole. Man defense got burned when Barrett broke contain or when Khaleke missed an RPO assignment. Some pretty bad officiating, injury to Kinnel. Metellus got beat on drag routes—that’s a speed issue and concerning.

State of the Program Feels

starts at 28:14

Outlook for Brian ever getting an ad read right is bad. Outlook for the team next year is good. Defense loses Hurst, which is big, but they have a lot of highly rated bullets. Would have liked to see more from the freshman linebackers in the running to replace McCray. Secondary isn’t as starry but everyone’s back and they’ll be better than good. Offense loses the fullbacks and Cole, returns Peters, the RBs, the WRs, the TEs, and three good interior linemen. Can they find some tackles?

Around the Big Ten with Jamie Mac

starts at 56:31

We play match the blowout score to the Big Ten end-of-year rivalry blowout. Anything to say about these various hilarious blowouts? Wow Nebraska. Rutgers asked everyone to leave the stadium and use the porta-potties. Playoff implications of the two teams Michigan just lost to. Coaching searches.


  • “How Soon is Now?”—The Smiths
  • “Why Is It So Hard?”—Charles Bradley & Menahan Street Band
  • “Beacon Hill”—The Rural Alberta Advantage
  • “Across 110th Street”




November 27th, 2017 at 7:52 AM ^

I missed it, why were they off?

Was it a technical thing, or was it some kind of Dear Leader group-punishment thing for some bad comments?

Whatever it was, a brief announcement on the front page about what was going on would be nice.  Didn't like just being left in the dark.

So I spent 2 hours post-game on other Michigan sites.  They are better than I thought.


Other Andrew

November 27th, 2017 at 9:12 AM ^

It was in many ways a long slog of a season, probably more so for you than any of us. These podcasts have always been a great Monday morning pick-me-up, whether they have been happy or Henri-ed.Grateful for all of your work, guys.


November 27th, 2017 at 9:21 AM ^

Just want to say, The state of the program is GREAT!  I know we all want to have backup QB's like OSU has for days, but remember this is only year 3 and Harbaugh did NOT walk into the perfect situation like Meyer did.  Meyer had both Hyde and Miller, Hyde is a beast in the NFL, Miller while not a great NFL guy, a more than ideal candidate for a Meyer led offense.  


Harbaugh had to go out and get a 5th year senior QB who was passed up by an underclassmen and O'Korn.  O'korn was never going to get exponentially better, if you thought he was you're delusional.  


I know we hate to hear this, but let it play out.  This team actually looks poised for a playoff run next year.  If Harbaugh cant get it all together next season then its time to ask questions.  We forget what RR did and then Hoke, its only been 3 years and we are by far ahead of schedule. 


The most troubling thing is the fact that harbaugh has yet to win a game as an underdog.  I guess thats not detrimental as when you are an underdog you're not expected to win, but it would be nice to see an upset form time to time....


Peters is gonna be great!


November 27th, 2017 at 12:14 PM ^

And the team is poised to be good next year.


If you've got dreams of a playoff run then tap the brakes a bit.  We still don't have a proven QB, we still don't have a right tackle, we're losing our left tackle, interior pass blocking should improve but look where it has to improve from.  We're losing our best defensive player (arguably the best college defensive player in the country) and now Speight is transferring as well.  The team should be improved overall, make no mistake, but it's yet another year of maximally punishing attrition and yet more youngsters starting because there are no scholarship seniors at entire position groups.

The worst of it is probably over.  Next season we could be back to about 10-2, but it'll still be a scary young team with key positions (including tackle and QB) being filled by question marks.  Harbaugh is going to fill many of those question marks with exclamation points, but it's mathematically unlikely he can do that to all of them.


November 27th, 2017 at 9:26 AM ^

I agree we shouldn’t get all torches ‘n’ pitchforks against the defense, but I was disappointed this podcast basically didn’t mention that Michigan gave up the winning points, and failed to ever force a punt in four tries, against a backup QB. What happened? You can’t say “gave up when there was no hope” except maybe the very last drive. Actually not sure Haskins name was even mentioned.

We were all over Barrett, even for the first couple drives of the 3rd, and then it seems to fall apart once Haskins is in. Would have liked more examination of what might have changed. Just injuries? A change in strategy? A lack of change for a QB with a different style?


November 27th, 2017 at 10:02 AM ^

Right, in 3 tries. That’s a substantial downgrade from their performance the rest of the game.

The long FG drive in particular featured a chance to force a punt deep in the defensive side of the field, giving the offense the short field they clearly needed. Make that 3rd and long stop and the game could be very different.

Or heck, the dropped interception. Those two plays are blunders as big as any of the O’Korn misses.

Yeah, the defense was better than the offense. But maybe we win this game if the D plays their best game of the year. I don’t think they did - too many missed opportunities.


November 27th, 2017 at 10:30 AM ^

You don't hold it against them for quitting in a 4 point game? 

Honestly, the level at which people, prominent or not so prominent, are simply ignoring the defense's failure in a game where they had the advantage deep in the third quarter is confusing to me. 

Like we are supposed to believe that the defense was tired when the score was 20-14 in the third quarter despite the fact T.O.P was basically even and Ohio State hadn't just been booted off the field quickly on their possession before. Also ignores the fact that there are a million commcerials and stoppages in a normal game. 

The same thing happened last week. Supposedly the defense got tired from being on the field against Wisconsin when it was 10-7, despite the fact that Wisconsin hadn't really done anything of note on offense all game and T.O.P was dead even. Or again, gave up in a 4 point game. 

Really, the defense played well for a quarter, then gave up 360+ yards, 31 points, 9 20+ yard plays and allowed 7 of 12 third down conversions (not counting penalties) over the final three. 


November 27th, 2017 at 11:47 AM ^

I've seen a number of people post something to effect the last OSU drive was 'garbage time'.  Garbage time?  There were 2 minutes to go and UM was down 4 with 2 time outs.  If the defense forces a 3 and out UM probably gets the ball back with about 60 seconds to go.  Now the odds they would go down the field and score a TD with JOK were pretty slim but who knows.  It's a 60 minute game and as we saw in 2015 with MSU you never know what is going to happen.


November 27th, 2017 at 1:11 PM ^

This is mostly understandable as the defense is good; it might even be very good. And it is the '85 Bears if you're comparing it to our frequently troubled offense.

But they were not very good against MSU, PSU or even OSU (i.e., the 3 most important games of the season). The whole game against OSU counts -- how do you "fade" (which I interpret to mean, "Eh, this game is out of reach") when a stop could get you ball back down 1 or, for the last drive, down 4? In the second half, OSU was picking up 3rd downs look loose change of the ground -- obvious people open with relatively simple throws.

Against MSU, they gave up 14 points in the 2.5 quarters when "regular" (i.e., non-monsoon) football was being played. That's pretty good, but certainly not the domination needed, when you are playing at home, at night, against a young QB and young OL.

Against PSU...that was just a butt-kicking.

Again, our defense performed well overall; even better, there is a foundation to actually reach domination next season. But we needed a performance like Auburn did to Alabama or OSU did to MSU in our big games this year and didn't get it --- that's difficult, but that's the standard.


November 27th, 2017 at 9:31 AM ^

Don Brown defense play calling 3rd 11 was the issue.  Leaving Watson on an Island is pointless.  Play a damn Zone and keep them from getting the first down.  Brown does this all the time, it works great against lesser teams without WR, but just look what happen when we play a team with a decent QB or athletic wide recieives.


November 27th, 2017 at 9:39 AM ^

Several times they did play zone earlier they got beat.  The TD to the TE that Hudson didn't cover, and the long pass that Long was only able to break up because Barrett took too long to see the guy wide open behind him.  As a young secondary, they likely struggle with zone responsibilities and the coaches trust them more in man.


November 27th, 2017 at 12:25 PM ^

This is such a chicken vs. egg argument though. Does Brown go with pressure so much because he knows his safeties can't cover? But then if the pressure doesn't get home, is he going to catch hell for making his safeties cover for that much longer? 


I'm really hoping we see someone a bit faster step in and replace Metellus next season. Kinnel brings a little bit more IMO in the stuffing of the running game. Metellus to me is an even bigger weakness than is McCray. 


Frankly, I think both Metellus and Kinnel are weaknesses, but if I'm picking just one to sit, it's Metellus.



November 27th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^

This was my only coaching complaint, which in fairness is being made against one of best all-around coaching jobs in college football. These guys had themselves a DAY. Sticking to man defense on 3rd and forever however was weird. It wasn't like it was a crazy blitz they used--just plain Cover 1.


November 27th, 2017 at 9:52 AM ^

at the risk of being "the refs" guy, the OSU receiver did not maintain possession of the ball on the 3rd and 13 on that drive when Kinnel got injured.  We did stop them on that drive, but it is the OSU game so it does not matter if we stop them or not, it just matters whether the refs decide that we did or didn't.

(Note - to the people who discount the idea that Michigan is, to some degree, being targeted by the officials, the missed JOK spot and it being upheld after review along with the lack of any review on this catch should give you some serious pause, particularly one week after the DPJ incompletion call and affirmation against Wisconsin.  There are calls and no-calls going against us like this in every game that we play.  These calls are not discretionary, they are black and white yes or no calls and we are continuing to get calls that are objectively incorrect. It is a pattern, they are not isolated incidents).


November 27th, 2017 at 1:04 PM ^

on the video board at the stadium.  It seemed weird at the time that they would keep showing replays of Kinnel getting injured, but then we realized that the video board operator apparently was trying to draw our attention to the receiver and whether he held onto the ball.  Seemed kind of questionable, but hard to say when watching a video board.


November 27th, 2017 at 11:27 AM ^

On the long pass to mcdoom down the left sideline, O'Korn failed to snap the ball before the play clock ran out... Watch it. He wasnt even close to getting that play off in time and the officials didn't even notice. Poor officiating

L'Carpetron Do…

November 27th, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^

You're right I remember thinking they lucked out on that one but got Barrett on that earlier.  But I also thought the receiver was draped all over McDoom and had him wrapped up before the ball even got there.  It still hit McDoom in the hands and he should've caught it but the Michigan sideline was really gesturing for a flag.  I watched it again on the BTN 60 replay yesterday, definitely could've been called.  It sucks that when O'Korn finally hit a guy with a decent throw (he made a great play to make that happen as well), our guy drops it while getting interfered with and there is no call.  Freaking blows, man. 

I hope 2018 is the Year of Scorched Earth and we blow them the fuck out next year.


November 27th, 2017 at 10:26 AM ^

While replacing Hurst is impossible, I do think that the Solomon/Mone/Dwumfor rotation should be solid.  Mixing in the 3-3-5 with Furbush will still be effective as well.  Finally, I'd like to see some passing-down options where Gary slides inside to get another DE on the field such as Paye - Gary - Solomon - Winovich.  

I'm not as worried about the safeties next year since we survived with three new starters this year who should get better and we also played Woods and even Glasgow when depth was needed.  I think they will gradually become more boring next year with experience.  

Brian hits the nail on the head - one of the side effects of our crappy offense this season was the inability to develop the 2nd string D.  I think McCray's spot will be fine just because of the shear number of guys who will compete for it.  But what if Winovich declares for the NFL?  He never came off the field this year and thus we could be in for some pain if we had to replace both him and Hurst. 


November 27th, 2017 at 12:28 PM ^

I came here to post something similar.


I wonder too if we see Gary slide inside at times to fill the void left by Hurst. If you want a 4 man line in passing situations, Winovich, Gary, Solomon, and Paye/Kemp may be a better look than Winovich, Solomon, Mone/Dwumfour, Gary. 


Pressure up the middle is the hardest thing for a QB to overcome, and I like the idea of sliding Gary inside in some packages.