Worst three years ever!
Worst three years ever!
Is that headline sufficiently catchy?
Yesterday I decided to view the past three years -- and more -- through the NFL draft. CBS Sportsline has data back to 1967, so we can look at Elliot through Carr. (None of RichRod's guys have reached the draft stage.) I found that the number of picks for the most recent three-year stretch ('09 to '11, covering the '08 to '10 seasons), seven, is the lowest since the one ending in 1986, when there were six. Only one other interval (interestingly, the one concluding in 1985) is worse (five picks). The one ending in 1970 also had seven.
Considering only high (rounds one to three) draftees, the last three years look even worse. There were two high picks (Graham in 1st round, Mouton in 2nd round). This has never happened in the "modern" (Bo and beyond) era. The other low points, by that measure, were three straight (ones ending in the years '89, '90, and '91) series around the Bo-to-Mo transition and a couple in the '70s.
Here are the details: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkEbjH02DNzxdG9LN2…
Next to the first draftee for each year you'll see four columns: * Total number of picks for that year. * Total number of picks for that year and the two prior years. * Total number of "high" picks for that year. * Total number of "high" picks for that year and the two prior years.
Old-timers (and everyone else), be sure to look at the high-pick numbers for the three-year intervals ending from '72 to '74. By the measure of the NFL draft (which, as I'll note later, had fewer spots back then), those were some insanely talented teams. Recruiting was arguably never better. It's worth noting that Bump Elliot should get a good chunk of the credit, since his last class would have finished in '73. Let's hope that Brady can do something similar. He's off to a good start.
Feel free to blame Rodriguez (lousy player development and retention) / Carr (cupboard management) / both for the last three years, depending on your preference. I'll step aside for the moment. :)
Note: Since the draft is currently seven rounds, I ignored all picks past that round in old drafts. I did not account for expansion (Bucs and Seahawks in the mid-'70s, Panthers and Jags sometime after that), so the numbers from (say) the early '70s, which are already impressive, should be considered in that light. (Being drafted in the first round with fewer teams is a rarer achievement.)
Is it catchy? I almost threw my laptop out the window... then decided to click. Nice one. I was going to say "Four years... chief!"
Are you just bored on a slow news day? Why start. Thread that basically says "I know that this is a topic that will inflame debate - a debate that has gone on unabated for a long time and which does nothing more than increase the slowly shrinking divide between factions of a divided fanbase - but I want to discuss.
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<br>Not trying to be an ass - and I am guilty of participating in these discussions when they come up - but can't we move past the blame and look forward to our upcoming return to glory?
I'd agree that the headline is somewhat inappropriate, but read the whole post. There's some interesting historical information there.
At first, based on the headline and the first paragraph I was getting ready to be pissed about a post making rash conclusions and blaming Carr. After reading the entire post I found it to be interesting and informative. The other aspect, obviously holds in the last three years, I wonder maybe looking at a variety of b10 teams how strong the correlation is between on field performance and players drafted. Obviously there is a correlation, but you look at teams like S. Carolina who get players in the league but are never really special on the field. Just thought that would be an interesting topic that is somewhat tangent to the current post.
I'm getting tired of pusbags who keep finding "new" ways to say the same old shit, over and over. Maybe we should give it a number system, like ordering in an Asian restaurant. The menu could look something like this:
#1. It's all RR's fault.
#2. RR was never a Michigan Man.
#3. RR's players are too small.
#4. WE'RE GONNA PLAY MICHIGAN FOOTBALL AGAIN!!!!!
#5. Sure am glad we finally got a real coach now.
Etc, ad nauseum.
Anyway, maybe the trolls and casual "football fans" who continue to foster unrest among the fanbase can just "order by number" now instead of spending so much time saying the same things over and over.
Example:
#3 DERP! #4, Brah.
um......those were carr's players. none of rich's guys have even graduated yet
You might have missed this part:
"None of RichRod's guys have reached the draft stage."
Despite the complete incompetence of their coaches, guys like Brandon Graham and Jonas Mouton still flashed enough talent and drive to be taken early in the draft. Here's to overcoming adversity!
Stay classy, my friend.
The OP posted this as a dig at Michigan's newest hall of fame coach. Obvious troll is obvious. Why else do you post it? I'm sure recruits are dying to hear this. Do you guys actually work for the free press?
Why is it ok to rip on Lloyd Carr, but ripping on Rich Rodriguez is the worst thing in the world? Lloyd Carr was at least competent at all aspects of his job. Rich Rodriguez was incompetent at at least 50% of his job(that is a FACT) and the 30% he was great at had a tendency to turn the ball over in the red zone.
I understand that I have a character flaw. When I see someone attacking Coach Carr, my automatic response is to attack Rodriguez. I'm working on it. in the meantime, could you attempt to leave coach Carr alone? Because this kind of crap is pretty much entrapment.
Time to get out the popcorn...
Come on now.
He spent all that time going back looking through the drafts and putting together that spread sheet and now he's a troll because you think it shines poorly on Lloyd Carr?
I think the new rating system has entered your thinking too much.
It's become: Downgrade everything that I don't agree with.
Edit (to another post, which I can't modify): I see you're sensitive, too, based on your most recent post.
"OP posted this as a dig at Michigan's newest hall of fame coach."
WAAAAAAAH! Would you like a tissue? Seriously, read the whole thing. Look at the many awesome classes recruited by Carr. How on earth is that post a slam of Lloyd.
The world was made for those with no self-awareness.
Maybe it was a dig at Carr or maybe he was pointing out an important piece of information. Given the terrible performance of the team under Rodriguez, it probably bears mentioning that the recruits themselves weren't brought here by Rodriguez. I don't think the OP is saying Carr was bad, just reminding readers that none of Rodriguez's recruits have been around long enough to have graduated/entered the draft (that is a FACT).
Or maybe everyone on the board needs to stop being so damned hyper-sensitive when it comes to any mention of their pet-favorite past coaches.
Just wait until they trash my true pet-favorite past coach, Gustave Ferbert.
DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BRINGING UP HIS LACK OF A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
While I don't agree with a lot the OP has said in the past regarding Carr's last years, I think this is a good post. It is informative and allows the reader to make their own conclusions. Not even close to "trolling". The posts about Carr that I hate are the completely unsubstantiated ones involving "Carr actively undermined RR", or "Carr gave up his last few years", or "RR's failures were Carr's fault b/c he didn't come out and publicly support him", also anything using the term "Carr-tel". This OP isn't like this at all.
Carr-tel is a pretty sweet term, actually.
Lloyd Carr was at least competent at all aspects of his job.
Except that part about avoiding his late recruits forming the worst three-year NFL Draft period in the history of the program. He didn't prove he knew how to do that, as we see here.
You Carr guys are so sensitive it is freaking hilarious. The OP is stating FACTS and said draw your own conclusions. You take it as a slam on LC. Your insecurity in your own stance is telling.
Nice non sequitur.
Maybe you, Desmonlon Edwoodson, should ask Graham about Rodriguez. Here's a clue:
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/09/brandon_graham_believes_ri…
But, don't reflexively respond to things that anger you. Please.
Why don't we ask Brandon Graham about Rich Rod?
http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/is-the-3-3-5-the-source-of-m…
God, I hope his knee gets back to top-condition; he is the best guy ever and one of my favorites. Hopefully it is only peaches and gravy for him from now on.
I followed your link and read that Graham thought Rodriguez would be back...? Where was the part where Graham said Rodriguez made him the player he is today? That Rodriguez was like a father to him...? Maybe the article got cut off?
I believe BG did say something along those lines about Barwis.
He (BG) and Barwis still talk all the time and if you believe that the buck stops at RR for all the "bad" coaches then you have to also assume the buck stops at him for all of the "good" coaches as well.
Also to still put your faith in RR coming back at a time when everyone was speculating otherwise speaks volumes about how BG must have felt about RR, IMO. Tea leaves, brother.
Many people have many good things to say about Barwis. You have a point. However, I cannot read that much RR love into what BG said.
Can you really see BG saying, "RR sucks, dude is gone" even if that is what he was thinking?
(And no, I dont think that was what BG was thinking)
It didn't seem to stop Braylon, Desmond, Toomer, etc. etc. etc.
All these replies popping in and out of view with the previous post greyed out...Then voted back into existence...then greyed out again.
Somebody might think about doing something about that.
I admit sometimes I'm as guity as anyone else of posting irrelevant comments, but it's frustrating when people are actually making solid relevant comments and then see them negged as "flamebait" or "trolling" for no reason other than disagreement.
Welcome to the brave new Mgoworld.
I just set my threshold to -1. I don't even bother getting the caving to work right.
A little more analysis and some graphs and this could've been a diary. Great work, though. Thanks!
This is what I came on to say. Even a chart would make this a pretty high quality post, IMO.
Probably have to break it down by decade instead of coach though, judging by our (MGoWorld's) comments to the piece.
personally i blame the penguin:
Tldr
So the cupboard was bare when RR arrived meme is proven accurate.
Well played, nameless internet poster. Well played.
I'm not saying that "meme" isn't accurate, but I'm not sure this proves it. RR could have taken over with several potential NFL draft picks that didn't develop properly to capitalize on their potential. Not saying this is accurate either, but I don't think this post really "proves" anything. Like he said in the OP, readers can make their own conclusions based on the facts.
So you're trying to tell me that the that the worst 3 year span of michigan football in the modern era ALSO generated the least NFL draft picks? No offense dude, but I could have told you that without the research...
Okay, since it seems necessary to say this kind of thing these days, I liked both Carr and Rodriguez. (Ugh.)
It's far from perfect, but you might begin to tease apart the incoming talent vs. player development question by comparing players' rankings from the recruiting services before they arrived with their NFL draft positioning. There are some issues there (e.g., coaches aren't necessarily trying to turn all of their players into NFL stars), but recruiting rankings probably offer a decent proxy for incoming talent while the difference between those rankings and draft outcomes probably offers a decent proxy for player development.
Nothing is more important than the program, no one person is bigger than the team, UofM is a family I can't believe Carr undermined the team, I can say as a UofM fan for almost 40 years I bleed blue and imho RR good coach loved the O hated the D not a good fit for UofM, and I don't think he really understood what M is about. We are a family of tough love fans ask D Morris were passionate and like a wolverine we will bite the hand that feeds.
Don't forget Mouton was a huge reach in the second round (national consensus was this was the biggest "Huh?!?" pick in the first three rounds) otherwise Graham would have been the only high-round pick.
Also, Rod's player retention has little to nothing to do with this. Mallett was the only defector to get drafted since and it appears he will be the only one.
Not surprising at all. However, I think next years draft will see things start to return to normal.
Ask not what Michigan did for RR, but what RR did for Michigan.