World Cup Day 10 Open Thread

Submitted by Yeoman on June 21st, 2014 at 9:31 AM

Without futher ado:

Group E:

12pm EDT (ESPN)

Argentina vs. Iran

Argentinien

 
Iran
 
Schiedsrichter: Mazic (Serbien)
 
 
 
Group F:
3pm EDT (ESPN)
Germany vs. Ghana
 
Deutschland
 
Ed.: And that's what I get for posting the lineups early. Hummels in after a late fitness check; Mustafi out.
 
Ghana
 
Schiedsrichter: Ricci (Brasilien)
 
 
Group E:
6pm EDT (ESPN)
Nigeria vs. Bosnia-Herzegovina
 
Nigeria
 
Bosnien-Herzegovina
 
Schiedsrichter: O'Leary (Neuseeland)

Comments

ixcuincle

June 21st, 2014 at 4:56 PM ^

I believe that we will win Sunday. We know what is on the line. Plus eliminating that smug jerk Cristiano Ronaldo would be sweet. Yes, I know he is great towards underpriviledged, but I don't like the diving, flopping, and something about him just screams douche

alum96

June 21st, 2014 at 5:09 PM ^

I love Ronaldo the soccer player.  The diving I don't care for but it is pretty prevalent in most countries now outside maybe the Asians and the U.S. players. 

What I don't like about Ronaldo is when things go against him, he does not turn into a leader but a yeller.  Which is why I don't believe in Portugal - did not in 2010 and do not in 2014.  Even if they beat U.S. I see a team unity and spirit in Ghana that you don't see in a side like Portugal.  Using a popular meme around here "they lack leadership".  Like it or not your best players are looked on as leaders and Ronaldo is not one IMO.  On club he has other guys to take that role, when with country he is looked upon and whenever things go south for Portual they go south fast.

I'd love an early goal vs them to see how they react emotionally!

FreddieMercuryHayes

June 21st, 2014 at 4:58 PM ^

Geez, actually getting a win against Portugal just became very, very important. I don't think facing a Germany team with their tourney on the line is going to end well for the US.

Yeoman

June 21st, 2014 at 5:02 PM ^

  1. When there's a third-game result that will put both teams through, that result tends to happen.
  2. If the US draws tomorrow, any draw next week would put Germany and the US through and Germany would win the group.

It doesn't require any collusion--it's just that when a team is through with the result on the board but would go out if they give up a goal, they have an enormous motivation not to take chances. Once both teams are in that situation it tends to be the end of the goals.

It's true that Germany would be playing for their lives but they would have nothing to gain from a win, they would just need to not lose.

M-Dog

June 21st, 2014 at 5:06 PM ^

So much for the talk about how the US could lose to Portugal and Germany and still go through on points.

If we want to go through, we need to win our way through.  As it should be.

 

alum96

June 21st, 2014 at 5:24 PM ^

Assuming Germany win v U.S. and wins the group here are scenarios

  1. US win vs Portual: US advances with 6 pts
  2. US tie with Portugal, Ghana and Portugal tie - US advances with 4 pts
  3. US tie with Portugal, Ghana win vs Portugal - US and Ghana both have 4 pts and tiebreakers show up
  4. US tie with Portugal, Portugal win v Ghana - US and Portugal both have 4 pts and tiebreakers show up
  5. US loss vs Portugal - US bye bye as the Portugal-Ghana winner would advance or if they tie Portugal advances with 4 pts.

JUST WIN BABY

...or if we tie Portugal, JUST LOSE SMALL TO GERMANY...and go kiss your sisters Ghana and Portugal.

Perkis-Size Me

June 21st, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^

So I don't know much about how this all works, but because Germany tied today, if we beat Portugal tomorrow do we automatically advance? Can someone explain our scenarios?

aiglick

June 21st, 2014 at 5:48 PM ^

If we beat Portugal we will be one of the top two teams. Portugal would only be able to get three points with a Ghana win. Ghana would only be able to get 4 points. We would, at worst, have 6 points. The only thing not determined is if we would win the group or place second behind Germany.

It is highly unlikely we win that game but I could see a tie. Great goalies can keep you in the game.

End if day we need to beat Portugal and we will be through.

UMCoconut

June 21st, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

If we win tomorrow, we are in. If we draw tomorrow, we are like 99% in, right? Because even if we lose vs Germany, we hold tiebreaker on Ghana, and Portugal would need to make up a 5 goal differential for their tiebreaker. So a draw or better tomorrow and we are a lock.

Or am I missing something?

Yeoman

June 21st, 2014 at 5:59 PM ^

In Europe it's the first tiebreaker but things are different with FIFA. The tiebreak order:

  • Points (obviously)
  • Goal difference
  • Goals scored
  • Head-to-head results among the tied teams
  • Goal difference in games among the tied teams (doesn't come into play unless there's a 3-way tie)
  • Goals scored in games among the tied teams (same deal here--if it's a 2-way tie this collapses into the first h2h tiebreaker)
  • Coin flip/drawing of lots

Yeoman

June 21st, 2014 at 6:51 PM ^

UEFA does it and the result is more meaningless third games, and more games where there's a particular result that puts both teams through and that they therefore play for.

Doing it this way means that as the result in the other game changes, so does the result you need in your own game. Day 3 is a lot more interesting.

creelymonk10

June 21st, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^

First tiebreaker is goal differential. If we draw vs Portugal, lose vs Germany, and Ghana beats Portugal, we'd better hope we lose to Germany by only 1 and Ghana doesn't win by more than 1 so we'd both be at 0.

Then if we tie goal differential, it comes down to goals scored. Right now we have 2, Ghana has 3, so if we draw vs Portugal, a high scoring draw is best. 

If still tied with goals scored, then it finally comes down to head to head, and we'd take that tiebreaker.

alum96

June 21st, 2014 at 6:27 PM ^

I just listed all 5 scenarios (assuming a German win vs USA) above about 5 posts earlier.

If US wins vs Portugal they are in, no one else can get 2 wins aside from Germany.

Eye of the Tiger

June 21st, 2014 at 5:47 PM ^

I don't think anyone ratioanlly thought this possible, but it is now.

First off, if we beat Portugal we are through. If we draw with Portugal, we'd need a draw with Germany to go through (or for Portugal to beat Ghana and then us to go through on GD, etc.).

But if we beat Portugal and tie or beat Germany, we win the group. That would set us up in the Round of 16, most likely, against mediocre South Korean or Russian teams--rather than very talented and dangerous Belgium. This is obviously the draw we want.

Obviously a lot has to happen for that to come to pass, and I imagine both Portugal and Germany will play with a lot of desperation at this point. But it's no longer a pipe dream.

Yeoman

June 21st, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^

1. US advances with win tomorrow.

2. US advances with draw tomorrow and draw or win against Germany.

3. US advances with draw tomorrow and loss to Germany if...

a. Ghana and Portugal draw, or

b. The US loses by only one goal, Ghana wins by only one goal, and the US scores one more goal against Portugal and Germany combined than Ghana does against Portugal, or

c. Portugal defeats Ghana by a margin no more than two goals greater than the US's losing margin against Germany.

4. US advances with loss tomorrow and win against Germany..

5. US advances with loss by one or two goals tomorrow and draw against Germany if Ghana and Portugal draw.

 

Hope I got these right--I welcome corrections.

alum96

June 21st, 2014 at 6:32 PM ^

Poor Bosnia - down 1-0.

Nigeria style is old English football, go kick and chase it  ...  Bosnia hopefully pulls this one out.

alum96

June 21st, 2014 at 6:37 PM ^

I guess Nigeria's tie  v Iran looks better now in light of the Argentina Iran game but they are just not that inspiring to watch.  Iran Nigeria I could not even watch it.

I am biased due to the US friendly a few weeks ago as well.  Watching Ghana or even Ivory Coast is much more fun... as is Bosnia.

 

Mr. Yost

June 21st, 2014 at 6:56 PM ^

...and they played a solid game vs. Argentina until the best player in the world decided to be the best player in the world.

IMO they'll get 1 in this 2nd half and wouldn't shock me if they get two.

Whether win or draw, I see them beating Iran and advancing to the Round of 16.

Mr. Yost

June 21st, 2014 at 7:08 PM ^

Is there a particular reason why GD is the tiebreaker over head-to-head when it's a two way tie?

If Japan beats Colombia 2-1 and Ivory Coast and Greece tie 0-0...Ivory Coast and Japan will tie with 4 points, they'll have the same GD as they will have scored 3 goals and allowed 3 goals.

However Ivory Coast beat Japan 2-1...shouldn't that matter more than anything else?

alum96

June 21st, 2014 at 7:11 PM ^

Apparently per an earlier comment on thread to provide more excitment in the 3rd games of the group.  Since goal differential matters both games will tend to affect things more with this as the first tiebreaker as opposed to head to head which would make some 3rd games irrelevent in every way.

Mr. Yost

June 21st, 2014 at 7:19 PM ^

But again, that's garbage (to FIFA)...

Right now in Group E Ecuador has the tie breaker over Switzerland even though Switzerland beat them head to head.

But because Switzerland got their doors blown off to France, they're down in GD.

Now Ecuador plays France and they're already through, it could happen, but I doubt they're going to worry about putting 5 goals up on anyone.