Wise Words From Bo

Submitted by Bluenin on December 9th, 2018 at 10:08 AM

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when you team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing.”

So things could be worse, Harbaugh was our homerun hire, can’t keep blowing up the program and start over every 3 to 4 years.  Yeah we haven’t beaten OSU, but 3 ten win seasons out of 4 is pretty damn good considering where we’ve been the past 10+ seasons.

Comments

ReegsShannon

December 9th, 2018 at 10:14 AM ^

If Harbaugh can’t win titles or beat OSU, he should be fired. Plain and simple. We aren’t quite at firing point yet, but trying to reframe the expectations is lame.

JPC

December 9th, 2018 at 10:18 AM ^

It’s pretty clear Warde has some soul searching to do. 

Harbaugh isn’t doing a bad job, and firing him seems pretty stupid. However, if 10-2 is going to be our ceiling, then trotting out undisciplined and unprepared teams while getting paid like a TOP TOP TOP level coach seems like an unworkable situation. 

MGoGrendel

December 9th, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^

Just a thought, and I could be wrong, but the defense is very aggressive while flying to the ball.  And when they hit, they hit hard.  Sometimes that draws a flag.  I’m not sure that part of our playing is undisciplined.  

I don’t have the stats in front of me to see where false starts and offsides penalties are ranked compared to other years or other teams.   If that’s the argument, the above doesn’t apply.

JPC

December 9th, 2018 at 11:18 AM ^

The targeting stuff, I think, is just due to the vagaries of the game. I'm talking about procedural stuff (snapping with too few/many players) and guys not knowing what the hell they're supposed to be doing. There was a lot of "what now" going on in the OSU game. That happens decently often on offense (dumb TOs to avoid delay of game), but it happened on the defense for the first time I can remember. 

The outcome was... well you know. 

ijohnb

December 9th, 2018 at 11:28 AM ^

They improved a lot and became much better, but they have always been undisciplined under Harbaugh.  Roughing the kickers, untimely penalties, mental errors.  The Kick-6, terrible roughing the kicker in the end-zone against OSU, back to back(!) running into the kicker against Iowa, over-pursuit on defense. I think he has brought the level of play up here for sure but since he has been here we lead the nation in stupid plays.

JPC

December 9th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^

Good point about MSU his first year. Not going max protect when MSU had no receivers was a dumb choice on Harbaugh's part. However, that was the closest he's ever come to beating a more talented team since he's been here. 

It's like he has a plan/MO and sticks to it regardless of what's happening at the moment.  

Kevin13

December 9th, 2018 at 10:48 AM ^

Do you really think Michigan could find a better coach then JH. Wow we had one bad loss this season and people want to lynch him. We loose a top recruit to a football factory. It’s not the end of the world. We fire a guy like JH after. 10-2 regular season who would want the job?

Look right now college football is the haves like Alabama Clemson Georgia and OSU. Pretty much that’s it and everyone else is way behind trying to make up ground. That includes us. We have made up some ground the last few years but we are still a long ways back and we may never get there. But JH is the best chance we have to get there and everyone getting their panties in a bunch over a bad loss and one recruit And then imploding everything is not going to help it 

VikingDiet

December 9th, 2018 at 10:04 PM ^

The problem is our position in the college football world. 

This kind of 10-2 does not get us in the playoffs.

This kind of 10-2 does not get us B1G championships.

This kind of 10-2 doesn't beat our "rival".

Making moves portraying a belief in achieving those goals (hiring harbaugh with a fat contract) and falling well short of achieving them is a problem. By the measuring stick sold to us, we are failing.

This kind of 10-2 is NOT good enough.

jsquigg

December 9th, 2018 at 10:28 PM ^

Alabama: Systemic cheating

Georgia: Starting the same thing

Clemson: Recruiting inexplicably got better, Dabo is smart Hugh Freeze, you do the math

Ohio State: Systemic cheaters thriving in a world where you can just dismiss facts and the distracted public move on

Harbaugh inherited a mess and a disadvantage competitively with a program that cheated its way to success under sweater vest.  He is 38-13.  Has it been ideal or above criticism? No.  It has flat out sucked at times.  But with all the overrated, impatient, bullshit narrative, I would argue that the program will continue to ascend.  This fan base acts so entitled sometimes.  We were losing to Rutgers just 5 years ago.  I don't think we'll see another OSU game like Saturday ever again.  Chill and enjoy basketball while Beilein is still around.  Football will provide its own success stories soon. 

Smegmatic Blue

December 9th, 2018 at 10:43 AM ^

Have you ever been in in charge of operating anything? You can't look at anything in absolutes. Nothing should ever be done based on knee-jerk reactions.

This foundation is built and things are ready to keep improving. I actually hope the OSU game turns off some of the more reactionary fans from the program, because stability is how programs become great. 

Remember......Beilein wasn't a great coach here until he stepped his recruiting up and got better assistant coaches(which took him like 7 years). Harbaugh isn't going to be a great coach here until he gets the right assistants in place(which he actually had last year when he hired Enos, but Alabama hired him away). With Al Washington and others in place, they will be just fine with recruiting.

I know what Harbaugh is having trouble with...... Harbaugh is a relationship guy. He plays the long game, and once you are a "Harbaugh guy", you are one of his guys for life(like Willie Taggert). To win right away in College Football, you have to do a lot of things that don't involve building relationships. He is being forced to operate at a speed that he isn't accustomed to, and still doing a pretty great job of it. Fuck, if they win the bowl game, this will be an 11 win season.
 

Luckily, Saban is like 70 years old so he won't be around too much longer. Saban is a big reason why Michigan is struggling more than they should be right now.

FL_Steve

December 9th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^

Beilein had a much better start than Harbaugh, from wiki:

Beilein's second Michigan team, the 2008–09 Wolverines took a significant step forward. On November 20, the unranked Wolverines upset #4-ranked UCLA, recording their first win over a top-five team in eleven years. On December 6, Michigan posted its second win of the season over a top-five opponent in a rematch against #4 ranked Duke. Wolverines reached the top 25 in the national rankings on December 22, its first appearance since the February 6, 2006 At the conclusion of the 2008–09 Big Ten season, Michigan was given a seven seed in the 2009 Big Ten Tournament. A win over Iowa in the Big Ten Tournament on March 12 was the Wolverines' twentieth of the season. With that win, Beilein had achieved a 20-win season at seven different schools, including four at the Division I level (Canisius, Richmond, West Virginia, Michigan).[2] Three days later, Beilein's Wolverines earned a bid to the 2009 NCAA Tournament, the school's first appearance in 11 years. There, tenth-seeded Michigan defeated the seventh-seeded Clemson Tigers 62–59[152] before losing in the second round to Oklahoma 73–63 (Blake Griffen was a beast in that game).  

Beilein teams have produced more with less, won major games with less, then began to get the recruits he needed to make a deeper push in the tourney and we have all reaped the joy of what BB has accomplished. Harbaugh has yet to: beat osu, win the B1G, make it to the rosebowl or playoffs, we lost our 1 BCS game, but have a change for redemption end of the month. I know basketball can be easier to build given fewer players developing cadence and cohesion with each other, but something has to change for football to break through to the next tier. 

Smegmatic Blue

December 9th, 2018 at 2:04 PM ^

Absolutely nothing you just said invalidated my point. Beilein looked as good as gone in February of a few seasons, and pulled it together enough to ride another year. 

Ohio State realizes the value of stability, this is why rather than firing Urban Meyer in a knee-jerk reaction(which a lot of people here would have done), they named his successor and played this season with him as coach. This is how Ohio State maintains an elite program.

When you make a decision to blow the whole thing up, this is when you being wandering in the wilderness. Nobody likes uncertainty.

FL_Steve

December 9th, 2018 at 4:13 PM ^

I'm arguing that Beilein did not have a tough time early in his career as history shows. That is to say, I am invalidating your false claim Beilein had a slow/tough/whatever start to his career and was never in any danger of being fired. People here might have wanted him out but that is out of impatience and myriad of other factors. 

TD Billy Taylor

December 9th, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^

Completely agree.

Sick of everyone on this board thinking that simply because we sucked for a few years under RR and Hoke that we should now be overjoyed we’re paying Jim Saban-level money to go 10-3 every year with a loss to OSU and a good not great recruiting class.

Harbaugh needs to put up or get out. He’s had more than enough time, the team is stacked with his recruits, and the staff is handpicked by him with the help of a money cannon from Warde.

No more excuses.

TdK71

December 10th, 2018 at 9:53 AM ^

I'd like to go back to the last 5 years of the Lloyd Carr regime, as someone else here alluded to great programs transition, while they keep the machine behind the curtain well-oiled and running smoothly. Lloyd started hinting at retirement back in 2004, his failure to put a succession plan in place cost us dearly.

It's going to take time to recover from all those setbacks, but now is not the time to change horses.

tybert

December 9th, 2018 at 11:29 AM ^

I was going into my senior year for the 85 season and remember that fan apathy as well. George Perles was the shiny new penny. 

MSU, Purdue, Illinois, etc. was all considered in the same pack with UM, with Iowa and OSU the top. 

Read Bo's lasting lessons and he clearly learned from that debacle to get four of the best five seasons we've had in UM football (87 was the exception).

MaizeMN

December 9th, 2018 at 11:31 AM ^

i don't think it's a mater of reframing the expectations.

The first expectation is to educate and graduate student athletes. 45 academic All-BIG says this is being acheived. Anyone who believes it should be anything different, should feel free to jump off the bandwagon. Period.

The next, and probably most recently questioned (again) is to compete for BIG and National titles. The year before Harbaugh arrived we were 5-7. That isn't passing the eye test. Since he has been hired Michigan has been in the race for the East Division every year and co-champs this year. If the divisions were more equally distributed, or Michigan were in the West, results may have been better. Alas, that is not the case.

The reality of the situation is that Michigan is not as far along the timeline to achieving those goals as most thought. A week before the OSU game EVERYONE thought we were there. We are not. Yet. 

But, if you can't see the progress that's been made, you're not looking. Perhaps we just need to realize there is still more work to do and not be so eager to throw the baby out with the bath water. Let's not reframe the expectations, but let's reexamine where we actually are in relation to getting there.

M-Dog

December 9th, 2018 at 2:43 PM ^

We aren’t quite at firing point yet, but trying to reframe the expectations is lame.

I agree with both of these statements.

We are not at a firing point yet.  Nowhere near it.  Not this year.  Not next year.  Not even the year after that, IMO.

But I also agree with the second statement.  The expectation for a Michigan coach is to be able to beat Ohio State.  That won't change.  That cannot change.

Harbaugh should be given time to get there.  Plenty of time.  Err on the side of more time, not less time.

But he has to get there.    

bluepalooza

December 9th, 2018 at 7:59 PM ^

I am just as frustrated as many of you.  Yes, Harbaugh came here to beat OSU, win B1G titles and give Michigan a chance for an occasional NC.  If you asked me to bet an appreciable amount of money I would bet that Michigan would have at least 1 of the first four games with OSU.  Losing this year was particularly painful due to the the humiliating way it happened.  At last second 31 28 loss would have hurt, but much less humiliating.

All that said, I will continue to believe the team is getting better from depth of talent and talent at skill positions. On par with OSU? No, but the gap is closing.  If you want a parallel, I would say Clemson.  Dabo Swinney's record at Clemson for his first four years:

9-5

6-7

10-4

11-2   Total 36 18

Harbaugh

10-3

10-3

8-5

10(11) 2 (3)    Total 38  or 39W and 13 or 14L

It wasn't until year 7 that Swinney made NC game and year 8 before he won it. I will repeat, I am as dissapointed as anyone here. I believe the team is getting better on so many levels. I don't know why, but something tells me that all this pain is for a reason.  The foundation that is being built right now has been much harder than any of us realize.  The demise of Michigan football started before Rich Rod. Bringing Michigan back the "right way" is a lot harder when you run an honorable recruiting program.

SouthOfHeaven

December 9th, 2018 at 10:21 AM ^

Yes, it's great that we have a team that we can expect to not lose to Minnesota and Maryland in embarrassing fashion anymore, but when you have the official BTN YouTube channel dumping on us and making fun of us for getting smoked by OSU literally every year...

I mean, look at this bullshit: fart.png

You can't tell me any Michigan fan should be cool with that. Gotta beat those fuckers.

gustave ferbert

December 9th, 2018 at 10:33 AM ^

Half of those need asterisks because it's been proven that tressel cheated. 

Beating Ohio State is of course huge, but they sold their souls to do so and it's at every possible level.  They are going so far as to altar arrest records to protect that crooked program.  Harbaugh is our guy, but the playing field is not level and hasn't been level ever since Steinbrenner bought off drew henson.