Why does Michigan downplay the rivalry with State?

Submitted by Blue and Joe on

I've lived in the Lansing area all my life. Some of my best friends are huge MSU fans. Most of my family members are MSU fans. For these reasons, and many more, I have grown up to despise Sparty more than our rival down south.

I completely understand that OSU is our biggest rival, but what I don't understand is the nonchallant attitude the football program has towards MSU. During the week we get polite comments and compliments for their players and coaching staff. Meanwhile the word out of EL is how much they hate us and want to beat us.

When Saturday comes along the result on the field is reminscent of the attitude during the week. MSU plays like a team hellbent on kicking our asses. We play like every other game: not good.

Why is it so hard for us to bring even a fraction of the hatred we have for OSU to a game against MSU? For a program that prides itself on having important rivalries we seem to forget all but one. All I want is to see some fire and passion on that sideline on Saturday.

EDIT: A lot of people are pointing to history and past dominance. While true, I think that is a terrible reason. Right now they are kicking our asses. Last year we showed up against OSU with a great gameplan. We were actually prepared. I want to see that for more than just one game a year.

EDIT 2: After writing that I am seeing that my question is actually "why doesn't Michigan ever appear to be prepared for games against not-OSU?" Which is why Hoke will be out of a job at the end of this season.

LBSS

October 21st, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^

Same reason Duke fans barely acknowledge Maryland fans:* Because when your main rival is someone else, but their main rival is you, it's much more fun to lord over them and condescend to them than to bring them up to your level by treating them the same way you treat Rival Numero Uno. 

Nothing makes Sparty madder than that Michigan talks down to them. 

*Yes, I know this is dead now. And, as a Duke fan** who grew up down the street from College Park, it saddens my heart.

**Shut up, my mom went to Duke and my dad went to UNC and I just had to pick when I was little, okay? 

Perkis-Size Me

October 21st, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^

Before Mark Dantonio dame along, Michigan State was an annual tune-up game for Michigan. They were a second-tier program compared to Michigan, and I'm assuming that mindset went into many of the players who played for MSU over the years. It also likely made Michigan complacent towards how they played and thought about MSU. They knew they were going to beat MSU, so they cared very little for them, and perhaps viewed them as a rival in name only. With complacency, there came no real drive to beat MSU, which may perhaps explain why we'd be losing to them in several games before we realized they were beating us. We could simply out-talent them and win. I'm not in the locker room, but that mindset may still linger amongst our players.

Mark Dantonio changed the entire culture at Michigan State. He coached at OSU, and brought with him a seething hatred of all things Michigan. Those thoughts and attitudes trickle down to your players, and he also happens to be an extremely good coach. His arrival luckily coincided with Michigan's downward spiral, but he's achieved success against Michigan through his own efforts.

Mark Dantonio may have the personality of a baked potato, but he hates all things Michigan, and his purpose in life is to beat us every year. Someone in another thread put it best when they said if Mark Dantonio loses to us, he likely looks at it as an assault on his own personal dignity. You can tell that mindset trickles down to his players. They play like their scholarships are on the line when we come to play them. You can tell they hate us, and the very thought of us makes them sick. I have my doubts that our own players feel the same way about MSU.



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JZ

October 21st, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^

WIth Hoke it seems like MSU is a big rival in theory, but when it comes to actually scheming and executing to beat their asses, they treat it like any other game. There just doesn't appear to be that burning desire to beat them. 

gustave ferbert

October 21st, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^

until they tied the series.  Even after the run they've had. . .Plus right now, I think the fan base cares more about landing Harbaugh and getting the program on the right track rather than worrying about the Aggies. . .

JamieH

October 21st, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^

Up until the last several years, beating MSU wasn't exactly an accomplishment.  It was a pretty much an expected event. Sure, they won about 33% of the games, but it was usually a massive disappointment when we lost and as we were almost always the higher ranked team.  MSU was a regional team that had no national significanct at all.

 

OSU on the other hand was a national power that was Michigan's equal or superior most seasons.  So they were a much more natural rival.   It was Michigan vs OSU for the Big Ten title.  MSU was an afterthought.

 

Only in the most recent seasons, as Michigan collapsed and MSU has risen to prominence has it even been conceivable that you could hold MSU on the same level as OSU as a rival in football.

flashOverride

October 21st, 2014 at 2:47 PM ^

This old canard has gotten tired, and reeks of Sparty jealousy. I don't know anyone who downplays the MSU rivalry for any reason other than to piss MSU fans off, which is funny to do. I'm not going to apologize for caring more about Ohio State, because that's the rivalry I grew up with. I don't "downplay" MSU, I just care about another rivalry more. That isn't downplaying.

That said, I too grew up in the Lansing area and have a very healthy hatred of MSU, but it's different. Ohio State is a team that you feel good to beat, because they've always been among the best. Beating MSU, for me, has always been more about just shutting up their insufferable fans.

To put it most simply, beating OSU is a joy; beating MSU is a relief.

aratman

October 21st, 2014 at 2:44 PM ^

There is a long history of apathy to this "rivalry".  I had no idea that we played for a trophy growing up, Lloyd Carr did not even know we played for a trophy, that is how often it changed hands.  They are having a run now, but that is the first since southern football desegregated.  I say win or lose they keep the trophy, it is the best way to get under their skin.   

 

From Wikipedia:

When the trophy was created in 1953, Michigan athletic director and former head coach Fritz Crisler refused to take the trophy if Michigan had won the game. Michigan State won the first game for the Paul Bunyan Trophy in 1953, displaying it proudly in Jenison Fieldhouse.

The following year in 1954, the trophy was left on the field for half an hour after Michigan defeated the Spartans, 33-7. "We'll find a place for the trophy," Crisler told The Michigan Daily after game. The Paul Bunyan Trophy was stored in the Michigan Stadium locker room in one of the equipment closets.[4]

Despite winning in 1954 and 1955, Michigan did not engrave their scores onto the neglected trophy. When the Spartans won in 1956, they engraved the Wolverine victories onto the trophy.[4]

The 1958 game was a 12-12 tie. The favored Spartans were so embarrassed that they didn't win, they originally refused to keep the trophy while Michigan refused to take the trophy. Michigan State eventually relented and kept the trophy. [4]

 

1932

October 21st, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^

More history! This post is everything that is wrong with this program and fa base. Nobody cares what happened in the 1950's and 1960's. In the here and now Sparty owns us and is head and shoulders the better program. That's not even debateable

quigley.blue

October 21st, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^

I am not from Michigan, and State wasn't good when I was at school at Michigan, so to me they were just a school in a town that nobody from California except one kid's grandpa had ever heard of.

BlueDragon

October 21st, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^

My Michigan native friends care more about State then I do. I'm from Ohio so I get it up for that Columbus school. State is like Scotland to Michigan's England - an annoying rival but also a distraction from the main rivalry with France down south.

BlueDragon

October 21st, 2014 at 8:53 PM ^

We endeavor to become the Mississippi of the North. There are pockets of liberalism in the cities but there's a reason state government is so...creative with its approach to public policy.

jsquigg

October 21st, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^

This rivalry hasn't been as big (although to me it is now) for a few factors:

1) As stated before, UM's dominance from 67-07.

2) Michigan is a national university while MSU is mostly local.

3) Many coaches and players who have taken part in the UM/Ohio rivalry hail from Ohio.  Bo came from Ohio.  

4) Michigan and Ohio have way more football tradition in terms of success than Michigan Agricultural College, although you have to respect Dantonio for changing the mentality of late.

To me, this rivalry is just as big as Ohio right now but it will never be bigger than Ohio.

HarBooYa

October 21st, 2014 at 4:55 PM ^

They could say their game against each other is more important than or rivalries against them. It sucks being irrelevant and now I know why msu fans are twisted like they are. I hope when we come out the other side of this train wreck we can return to the good winners we once were. This is painful.

jmblue

October 21st, 2014 at 3:08 PM ^

It's not as nonchalant as you think.  Under Carr (and I believe Bo and Mo as well), if MSU beat us, we'd hang an "MSU state champs" banner in the locker room - which wouldn't go down until we beat them.

 

1932

October 21st, 2014 at 3:12 PM ^

Michigan football is horrendous and we've become SMU. Once great but not even close to where we once were and our fans are looking for any reason to feel better so they rely in history, as sad as that is

I Love Lamp

October 21st, 2014 at 3:36 PM ^

living in staee country, they are still in lil bro mode. If their recent success against us, on a conference and a national scale doesn't change them, then I know their gene pool is completely shot, cause nothing will ever snap them out of it.

JHendo

October 21st, 2014 at 3:52 PM ^

I think it all stems from U of M doing everything it could to stop MSU from joining the Big Ten for a couple decades leading up to their entrance in 1950.  We've always had that feeling around us that MSU doesn't belong in the same stratum as us and that they want to just ride our coattails in their pursuit to become or even (gasp!) outdo us.  While this elitist opinion about MSU is not as true as it once was, it is something very much engrained into the Wolverines.  So while I think to say we don't prepare has hard or care as much is a bit of an exagerration, I think we inately play the role of the stuck up aristocrats who turn up our noses or show apathy at blue collar Sparty.  In turn, Sparty expertly plays its role as the disrespected up and comer.  

Whether this charade has anything to do with the outcome of the game is a whole other story, but it certainly adds a little more bite to the plot line year in and year out.

Tagg

October 21st, 2014 at 6:58 PM ^

It goes even deeper. I believe it was in 4th and Long by John U. Bacon where I read Michigan was opposed to having a seperate state school for the land grant scholarship. So the University of Michigan tried to halt the Michigan State University's very existance. Most people break down along the football lines but a friend of mine who is a MSU alumni said since Dantonio came in he breaks down that history outside of athletics as well the barring from the BigTen, "little brother" and some of the sideline conduct from Michigan from that game. 

BlueinOK

October 21st, 2014 at 3:58 PM ^

Based on history Michigan has dominated the series. Lately I think Michigan downplays it so it doesn't seem like MSU has passed Michigan in football even though it is very obvious they have. 

poseidon7902

October 21st, 2014 at 3:59 PM ^

To see the reverse of this, look at Basketball.  I would say MSU is our biggest point of contention in Basketball.  Not that OSU isn't hated, because they are.  I just think we measure ourselves up to Izzo and MSU more than we do to OSU.  Many of my MSU fan friends still look at UM as they did Pre-Beiline.  Almost a 'meh' type attitude.  Yea, we can be annoying, but they are the better team.  this despite the fact that we've owned their ass the last few years.  I think last year with us winning the B1G outright and having been to the finals in the tourney is starting to wake them up.  I don't think they are quire there yet.  

aratman

October 21st, 2014 at 4:41 PM ^

Michigan State has had a better basketball program for a short time too.  Michigan is 91-72 against MSU.  Michigan was better for most of the last 40 years except for the last 10 or atleast the 10 before the last few.  I will let you decide if this was because of sanctions or facilities, I think it is the latter.

CarrIsMyHomeboy

October 21st, 2014 at 4:16 PM ^

(1) They aren't downplaying the MSU rivalry. They simply aren't playing it up as they do for OSU.



(2) Perception is not reality. Who cares what they say to the media so long as it isn't inflammatory? This aspect of press conferences doesn't matter.

webster11

October 21st, 2014 at 4:23 PM ^

It seems that the rivalry has always been a big deal for in state students. They have friends family etc from state so that makes the rivalry more intense



For in state students most people don't know anyone from state so it isn't as big of a deal. It generally was just another game we usually win, until recently.



Because Michigan has a large out of state percentage and many people get jobs out of state, the rivalry really didn't mean too much as long as we were in winning most of the time.

Leonhall

October 21st, 2014 at 5:04 PM ^

MSU has always pissed me off. For the past 10 years or so we have struggled. One of the problems us UM fans seems to have is we focus too much on the past. We keep bringing up historical records when the most important record, our in season record has been shitty for most seasons. It's the same against MSU, our coaches, players, and their actions have always indicated that this MSU game wasn't a BIG game. Lately we have been getting our asses kicked by them and it doesn't seem to bother this staff/program. We almost accept it, move on, and when the last weekend in November rolls around we play our REAL RIVAL. Fact of the matter is, both MSU and OSU have kicked our ass lately. This Program can keep downplaying this MSU game, we'll continue to get our ass kicked, they'll go to the Rose Bowl, and we'll continue to play a meaningless game at the end of November. Used to be the winner of the OSU/UM went to the Rose Bowl, we don't even beat MSU anymore. The fact that OSU has dominated us longer, for me, makes the MSU game a BIGGER game, however, even lately, MSU beats our ass...how much longer will that be a rivalry?

LSAClassOf2000

October 21st, 2014 at 5:07 PM ^

My own take on this involves my own acculturation into Michigan fandom really, but growing up, the order for most everyone I knew was OSU, ND and then MSU and it was pretty unwavering save for the years that ND went on the odd hiatus (now a long, odd hiatus of course). It seemed to match the perception of the teams at the time - OSU was virtually always neck-and-neck with us in the conference, ND was the premiere OOC game most years and MSU was a game with a team that was occasionally competing basically.

Without ND, I think it becomes - by tradition - OSU and MSU, but it seems like it has been a 1A and 1B relationship in more recent years. 

Moisturize

October 21st, 2014 at 5:31 PM ^

Theme to this game are primarily correct, IMO.  The idea that Michigan Football isn't up for the game, or that the level of intensity isn't commensurate is mostly bunk.  What does the program need an even bigger MSU countdown clock?  More motivational articles posted around the football facilities?  More staff members harping more often on what's occurred over the last 6 years?  I've got news for you there's all that and more surrounding the program, and there was even before Dantonio ever arrived in EL.

MSU's just been a substantially better program of late.  In most every aspect to be frank.  Change the underlying factors that have made that a reality and then start worrying about how "serious we take the game".  Anything else is just a pile of rationalization.

bronxblue

October 21st, 2014 at 6:00 PM ^

Michigan doesn't "downplay" the rivalry as much as you usually don't talk about getting your teeth kicked in during a trash tornado in a crappy stadium.

Before MSU's recent run, UM dominated them.  Now, MSU is much better and it hasn't been close save for 2011 and, I guess, 2009.  

It will be a rivalry again, hopefully pretty soon.  But this whole narrative that UM doesn't "get up" for the game is part UM simply looking at MSU like another opponent and part MSU kicking the crap out of them and the media wanting to divine some reasoning beyond "MSU's better" from that.

BlueHills

October 21st, 2014 at 6:07 PM ^

Michigan and OSU have played for the conference championship many times. Michigan and MSU haven't got that history.

I think it's really that simple.