Why does the football program underachieve so much?

Submitted by UMxWolverines on
This isn't a new thing. 3 and 4 loss seasons were the norm under Carr. We never won a national title under Bo, we have been witnessing head scratching losses for decades. Nobody in this fanbase expects national titles every year, hell obviously not since we have 1 since the 1940s. But we have most definitely had national championship caliber teams only to fall short. Does the program lack a killer instinct? The want to win every game? I remember a while ago an anonymous Wisconsin player mentioned the difference between Michigan and OSU, and his response was "Michigan players take plays off, OSU players don't." You can't tell me we don't have the talent. We had the highest number of draft picks in school history, and the country this year and lost 3 games. I just don't get it. What I saw out there today was the same thing I saw against MSU and OSU, something bad happened and the body language and facial expressions just did a total 180. Where is the passion, the drive to come back harder the next time?

Tuebor

January 1st, 2018 at 7:07 PM ^

"Recruiting" is bull shit. It is important to recruit well as a coach. But "recruiting" has become a spectacle where teams with large fanbases are attracted by ranking their recruits higher in hopes of selling subscriptions and memberships. I cant think of a more fake industry

erald01

January 1st, 2018 at 5:16 PM ^

Because we dont accept it that we suck. We are an arrogant fan base who constantly keep bringing how we were great under Bo and Natty 1997. We are not good PERIOD and until people realize that then things will eventually fall in place. I know this sounds silly but we need to start from scratch. Meaning start and learn how to beat msu the instate rival first. I remember reading that msu made it a goal when mark jokned to beat Michigan on consisten basis. Now we need to do that. Enough of playing it off like another game.

erald01

January 1st, 2018 at 7:57 PM ^

University as a whole, fans, AD, Jim Harbaugh. Burn it to the ground and start fresh. Apply modern day football, enough of “hard nose” football by constantly running through the middle and gaining 1yrd. Old days are over. Cannot win games at 9-3 anymore. Stop the talk and just fucking win.

NRK

January 2nd, 2018 at 2:08 AM ^

This is all meaningless catch phrases filled with hot air. You think Harbaugh isn’t trying to win? Just win? Oh gee, maybe you should tell Jim that I bet he forgot. You say we need to learn to beat MSU, but then criticize “hard nose football” (which is basically what MSU does) as obsolete. The idea that UM or the Harbaugh regime is built wrong is silly. Michigan was a bad spot away from the Big 10 title and CFP in ‘16. Yes, it was a bad year. Yes, they need to get their OL in order, and find and offensive identity, and a QB, and fix defending the slot, but this is not Armageddon, there’s no meteor hurling at this program. Breathe.

BlueMk1690

January 1st, 2018 at 5:22 PM ^

Michigan's 1st choice to replace Bo took himself out ot the equation after a pretty solid first few seasons via personal issues. He was succeeded by a competent administrator who lacked in vision and creativity. We rode that competence to the 1997 national title, but eventually your flaws catch up with you and by 2007 we were all out of ideas and worst of all, Carr had not bred a successor capable of handling the Michigan job.

So then you got an 'open search' that ended in hiring a dude who had shown himself to be a brilliant offensive coach and one of the 'hottest names' out there. From the outside that seemed like about as good a hire as you could hope for in a coaching search. In practice it was a bit like making Howard Stern the leader of the school board in a rural Kansas county.

Then after "Satan" had been evicted, you replace him with the perceived antithesis. Hoke fit like a glove for the most backward elements around Michigan football. He was perfect for the school board of a rural Kansas county and for those who viewed Michigan football in that way. He ticked all the boxes - except he couldn't really coach at that level, like at all.

Michigan fed off the Bo legacy and what he had built for almost 20 years - and then struck out spectacularly in its two attempts to replenish the substance of the program.

So now we have Jim Harbaugh and all you can hope is that the crap we experienced throughout the 2017 season was just an after-effect of all those bad choices, the way you sometimes, years later, can feel the effects of an old injury in your back or your knees.

LSAClassOf2000

January 1st, 2018 at 5:32 PM ^

There's is a question or two I have kept asking myself for a couple months now, and your post reminded me of it - are we looking at some of the echoes from previous miscues coming to bear early on in the Harbaugh years? Is it possible that the problem is more dynamic in that sense than people seem to believe or care? Was this year a myriad of bad decisions made by a previous staff coming to a head? I think they are intriguing questions really. I realize they'll get sarcastic answers, but it's an interesting thing to ponder. 

BlueMk1690

January 1st, 2018 at 6:51 PM ^

You can choose to break with it or let it run its course even if it's not right. Either way there's gonna be a point where the roster is going to experience lack of depth/experience.

Only way to avoid that is a scenario where your predecessor had similar ideas and did a lot of stuff right. This usually happens in 'planned' takeovers due to retirement or departures of good coaches in the middle of their runs (such as a move to the NFL) which then might be replaced by their right hand men. Obviously the last three coaching changes at Michigan did not at all follow that model and were instead ruptures and thus to some extent always also 'hostile takeovers' so to speak.

Ty Butterfield

January 1st, 2018 at 5:33 PM ^

It has been like this for as long as I can remember. Harbaugh needs to stay off Twitter and stop jumping into swimming pools during the bye week. Stop being a damn celebrity and get back to coaching football. OSU, PSU, and MSU don’t need to do trips to Rome. They actually win games.

Couzen Rick's

January 1st, 2018 at 5:35 PM ^

Michigan was consistent. Bo was a legend. That being said, the goal of his teams were to beat Ohio State, win the B1G and go to Rose Bowl as a reward. Paraphrasing here, but he was always quoted as not being a fan of the Mythical National Championship system. This is why Michigan won so many Big Ten titles, and may also help explain the Rose Bowl record as well as the 1-2 regular season hiccups Michigan always seemed to have. Secondly, Michigan in the modern era has been consistent, winning 9-10 wins a year, up until 2008. Other elite schools had more losing seasons in between, but also more national championships.

Durham Blue

January 1st, 2018 at 5:36 PM ^

The first thought that came to my mind was "country club mentality".  And as I read through the comments I see a lot of similar thoughts.  We are a complacent and wealthy program.  We have a huge safety net of wealthy alumni and TV contracts.  Largest stadium.  Tops or near the top in revenue.  We have to realize that EVERY team circles us on their schedule and play their hardest against us.  We rarely match the intensity that the other team brings.  We rarely play games with the proverbial chip on our shoulder.  The scrappiness seems to be gone.

Look no further than the University of Texas as a team in a very similary situation.

Durham Blue

January 1st, 2018 at 5:48 PM ^

Look at the 2016 MSU game.  Sure, we won the game but not after essentially giving up for the final 7 minutes to allow MSU to make the final score respectable.  That year we had a huge talent and experience advantage and should've stomped them by 20+ points.  Instead we chose to coast.  That is the kind of bullshit that nobody wants to see.  When you have your rival on the ropes you throw the knockout punch and then kick them when they're down.  That is the mentality we need to get back.

kgh10

January 1st, 2018 at 5:51 PM ^

I also look at Notre Dame and see the same phenomenon. Yes they have had some good seasons with Brian Kelly, however I still think they suffer from that elitism and lack of killer instinct which has taken them out of true elite status in the last 20 years. 

The elitist programs with the beacon on the hill academic reputation just don't do well. Even a player who grew up in public housing takes on that same elitist attitude once he arrives here (just listen to the players' perspective toward the fans). It's a badge of honor to not be nasty, to not have a chip on your shoulder, to be a "good guy." It's like Michigan is too self-conscious to truly take on a tough, gritty persona thinking that it's beneath them. 

You think Ohio State fans, students, or players give a shit if the ivory tower folks don't consider them a public Ivy? Alabama? USC? Mind you, these are all good-excellent schools. Fact is, you can be a great academic institution and have an elite football program. Seems like the UM culture doesn't recognize that and that the reputation is more important than the substance behind it. 

Don

January 1st, 2018 at 6:45 PM ^

Today's game was very much like most of the other 24 bowl losses I've watched since 1/1/1970 in that we just seem lethargic from the beginning on offense, while our opponents generally seem sky-high to play us, even when it's Southern Cal.

Since that 1970 Rose Bowl loss to USC, no other program in the country has as many bowl losses as Michigan does at 25. That's simply pathetic.

Coldwater

January 1st, 2018 at 5:35 PM ^

After watching today’s game, I now realize why Harbaugh whiffs so badly on the 5 star recruits that give Michigan a look because we have “history” and are supposedly a “national brand” but ultimately pick a program that actually wins meaningful games. If I was a star high schooler that wanted a realistic shot at playing for a Natty, Michigan isn’t it

Human Torpedo

January 1st, 2018 at 5:48 PM ^

Sure does look stupid now. Beilein may not be perfect, but I think after Izzo, everyone else in the Big Ten would take him in a heartbeat over their current head coach. Same just cannot be said for Harbaugh right now especially with all the rockstar coaching additions to the Big Ten. Harbaugh for the first two years was the one who cleaned up in recruiting too (now we have Beilein with a better ranked class by the way)

GoBlueSouth

January 1st, 2018 at 5:42 PM ^

Michigan has an institutional "arrogance" about it that steeps into everything about the university including athletics. The Harvard of the Midwest my ass. Stop talking shit about academics, traditions, and history and move into the freakin new century athletically. Ohio State left that crap behind when they hired Tressel who made them into a NATIONAL powerhouse instead of bragging about winning the conference and playing a shitty PAC 10 team in Pasadena. Meanwhile, Michigan in football hung onto medicrity with Loyd Carr forever while everyone else moved forward. Then the good ole boy institutional arrogance took over once again with Carr involved moving from Rich Rod through Brady to now Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh is a great coach BUT the Michigan insiders and Blue Bloods need to stop telling him how great he is so he can actually grow a pair once again and coach with a heart. This entire year, Michigan has looked like it was going through the motions. No fire whatsoever and they didnt beat a team with a winning record. 

UM Indy

January 1st, 2018 at 6:18 PM ^

Arrogance. Entitlement. Not sure exactly what the right word is. I see other teams that want to beat us much worse than we want to win. We simply don’t match the intensity of our opponents more often than not. I see complacency from the CEO head coach on down.

erald01

January 1st, 2018 at 8:36 PM ^

Arrogance builds leadership and success. There is nothing wrong with it AS LONG as you put in the work. You cannot win games and expect other to play dead because you are michigan. I feel like some of these guys expect to win because its michigan. You need to grind it out, put in the work then show you arrogance.

kgh10

January 1st, 2018 at 9:26 PM ^

Hmmm, I think you're confusing arrogance with confidence. And I think all of these kids and coaches work their asses off. I wouldn't accuse them of not putting time and work. The arrogance and entitlement come in when you are struggling and facing adversity in a game and think it'll correct itself bc you're Michigan. The arrogance comes in when you are not adapting and changing strategy when your initial plan isn't working. Humility is about knowing when your product sucks and be willing to change and adapt accordingly even when your ego is bruised. 

Maize4Life

January 1st, 2018 at 5:49 PM ^

in TWO seasons has won the SEC and made the CFP...WHY????  WHY???

cant we find someone like him?  JH best finish is what tied for 3rd in the East? 

Cant we just all admit we made a mistake and move on?  Im not a JH hater at all..Like the guy but its beginning to look like hes just not the guy..

erald01

January 1st, 2018 at 8:32 PM ^

Will find out more about Kirby once Richts guys are gone. Plus Georgia is a gold mine of high school football players. All Georgia needed was a coach that didnt fold under pressure because the talent was always there.

AMazinBlue

January 1st, 2018 at 5:59 PM ^

and the reputation of the program amonst kids and players was severly damaged and we're still paying for it.

So far, JH has grossly underperformed.  His offensive staff is terrible and the players seem unprepared for what they face.  

 

TNWolverine

January 1st, 2018 at 6:27 PM ^

If staff changes are made, please do away with pass game coordinator, run game coordinator, play action pass coordinator, hydrate the offensive players coordinator. To many hands in the pot. Get a legit OC, not an oline coach dressed like an OC and let him run the O with Harbaughs over sight. We don't need 4 people sharing play calling duties. We need to establish an identity.

Tuebor

January 1st, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^

Honestly, it is because we brag about accomplishmemts that happened before 1950. From 1951 to today we are the eigth in wins and win pct. But the players of today get to claim to be a part of the "winningest" program in college football. That sets in entitlement that we cant overcome. We go 3-17 against msu and osu over the last 10 years but we point to the overall records as if they have an effect on the games today. We are a country club program that hasnt had a real edge to us since '97. Maybe '99 but that was just due to the greatest qb in the games history playing for us, and our dumbass coaches sat him in the 2nd quarter for most of the year.

kgh10

January 1st, 2018 at 8:15 PM ^

Whenever I see videos of former players coming in to talk to the team or any presentation on Michigan, you are shown all the past champions of the last century. Everyone pats themselves on the back in pride, only to see entitled attitude on the field right after and we wonder why.

I'd love it if the new recruits and returning players came in on their first day of practice and they saw a presentation of all the past great teams. Once that nostalgia welled up their eyes and put a lump in their throats, fast-forward to the last 15 years and show only yakety sax bloopers and embarassing losses to our championship-level rivals (like ESPN does every season). Remind them who we are NOW. It'll be sobering, and it'll piss a lot of people off. 

Not to disrespect the players that worked hard over the last 2 decades, but to ask each incoming player which version of the program they wanted to create. Yes...create...from scratch. No more riding the coattails of "tradition." Let them create their own identity apart from the one the program created when the old money ruled the roost of football. 

The whole "This is Michigan!" thing Hoke did was cringeworthy for me from the start, but it explains a lot. Meaningless entitled rhetoric. 

kscurrie2

January 1st, 2018 at 6:43 PM ^

Because we are running the same offense that Bo ran in the 60’s and are expecting to win NC the 21st century. Reality is he never one a NC running this offense then either.

Wilton Speight

January 1st, 2018 at 6:53 PM ^

Lloyd Carr won a national championship. Lloyd Carr won Big Ten championships. Lloyd Carr could beat Ohio State. Lloyd Carr beat Michigan State. It's Rich Rod, Hoke, and Harbaugh. These are the coaches that have embarrassed the program and school and moved us out of national relevance. Not Lloyd Carr. That is unfair. 

Wilton Speight

January 1st, 2018 at 9:09 PM ^

That's true, but Carr still won championships. The team also just looked better than it does now especially on offense. Even during a down year I can't remeber any Lloyd Carr Qbs being as bad as Peters, Speight or O'Korn. Rudock was a W. I'll give Harbaugh credit where it's due. John Navarre would start over any of those guys (minus maybe Rudock) in a heartbeat. 

Wilton Speight

January 1st, 2018 at 6:53 PM ^

Lloyd Carr won a national championship. Lloyd Carr won Big Ten championships. Lloyd Carr could beat Ohio State. Lloyd Carr beat Michigan State. It's Rich Rod, Hoke, and Harbaugh. These are the coaches that have embarrassed the program and school and moved us out of national relevance. Not Lloyd Carr. That is unfair.