Why all the ND hatred?
A serious question: Why all the ND hatred on the board? A number of other threads talk gleefully of ND getting killed in the championship game by 'bama or some other SEC team, or losing to USC this week. Frankly, I just don't get it.
Yes, they are a rival (at least, for now, while we still play them yearly), but I think the rivalry with ND is different than the OSU and MSU ones. The OSU one is hate + respect; the MSU one is hate + no respect; the ND rivalary, in my opinion, has less hate involved, just two of the most tradition-laden programs in the country playing against one another, often in classic games. Why there is so much enmity in some of the other threads on the board is a puzzle to me.
Beyond that, do people really prefer to see some damn team from the SEC win the title again? I'd *much* rather have a team from the midwest win. Even though ND isn't in the Big Ten, they are much more like a Big Ten team, and finally getting everyone to shut up about how great the SEC is would be fantastic.
Finally, one thing I've seen repeatedly is commentary about how lucky ND has been. Does anyone think there has been a college football champion without luck? If you look back at any undefeated season, there are inevitably a number of plays, which, if they go the wrong way, get you a loss. ND has had a few such plays (Pitt kicker misses in OT, Stanford reaches for goal line but is deemed down), but got the break. Alabama, in contrast, got some breaks against LSU (a game in which they were outplayed), but didn't against A&M, leading to a loss. So sure, they've been lucky, but all undefeated teams get lucky now and then.
Summary for those who think TL and then DR: ND hatred is puzzling; they are a rival of the best kind; I'll be rooting for them against any damn SEC team; sure they are lucky but which unbeaten isn't?
</oldmanrant>
[EDIT: my michigan bio, since it seems to be relevant, as follows. Grew up in Ann Arbor, went to school in Fab Five era, was at many famous UM/ND games including sitting in the rain only to watch Rocket return two kickoffs for TDs. Have published a few diaries here in the past over the years, including a heartbreaking diary of staggering genius, one in which I hate everything, and a piece entitled memories of the game about OSU/UM.]
November 18th, 2012 at 10:18 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:28 AM ^
religion and diversity are mutually exclusive."
Oh, I think a world full of religious zealots has kind of earned that one. Just sayin'. The Catholic school in my little town was the white one. They used ND's fight song.
November 18th, 2012 at 1:45 PM ^
Well, that settles it.....
November 18th, 2012 at 5:23 PM ^
Pretty sure this is the kind of rhetoric that has no place on this board.
"Just sayin'."
November 18th, 2012 at 10:36 AM ^
I didn't invent the stereotype, I merely referenced the stereotype. I apologize for offending you and I'm sure the private school you attended doesn't come close to fitting the profile I outlined. Nevertheless, I made a lot of friends of ethnically diverse backgrounds in my time at Michigan, and most of them told similar stories about how they felt their ethicity didn't really play a factor in their application process at any school other than Notre Dame.
November 18th, 2012 at 9:48 AM ^
I have only so much hate to go around. Ohio State and Michigan State are more deserving of it than Notre Dame. And I will undoubtedly get called out for saying this, but to the rest of the world, Michigan fans are right up there with ND fans on the insufferability scale. We're probably the two most reviled programs among people who didn't attend either school. That said, Brian Kelly appears to be a dick of the highest order.
November 18th, 2012 at 9:51 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:22 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:00 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:08 AM ^
"why not?"
November 18th, 2012 at 10:17 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:29 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:09 AM ^
If it is any SEC team against ND in the championship, I will be for ND. Otherwise, I'll likely be against them.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:10 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:18 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:19 AM ^
I live in Indiana so to me it's a big deal. I'm surrounded by a bunch of ND fans that seriously think they are the best team in the country. In my opinion they are not one of the top 5 best teams. Plus I think they will lose to USC.
Note: sorry if this is written poorly I am a little hung over lol
November 18th, 2012 at 10:24 AM ^
Try sitting through an entire NBC Notre Dame broadcast, just try it once, and you should understand.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:30 AM ^
If you want to listen to the homer then listen to the homer. If you don't then mute the TV and listen to a different broadcast. I wish that more broadcasters were openly bias like Bob Ufer. There is no shame in that.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:41 AM ^
What other broadcast? If I happen to have a rooting interest in an ND home game on NBC, I can't easily find a neutral broadcast. The broadcast on TV should in pretty much every case be neutral, not neutral for every team other than ND.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:28 AM ^
I want to maintain (or grow) our lead in #wins and winning %.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:29 AM ^
The most indoctrinated Michigan fans will have a really tough time admitting this, but I would surmise that much of the hatred is due to the fact that Notre Dame is like Michigan's twin brother. Out of any school in the country, Michigan and Notre Dame share the most similarities across the board. They have the two most rich traditions, have the two most wins, have the two best winning percentages, have stubborn and arrogant fans (I admit I am an arrogant Michigan fan), have good schools, are from the midwest, have iconic uniforms, and probably a whole lot more.
When they succeed we think it should have been us and I be they feel the same when we succeed. As a local rival, it is understandable to have either hate or respect and that is fine. That is part of what football, or sports in general, is all about. However, to say that ND is bad because of X is a bit hypocritical because, more often than not, the trait of X applies to Michigan as well.
As far as wishing ill on them, I do not. I do not think that a ND championship will hurt Michigan or our recruiting. We pull in good players, and we have a good coach. I don't know why the fear that there is another good team in the midwest.
ND is not our little brother, they are our brother. Root against them if you wish, but at least accept reality.
November 19th, 2012 at 3:34 PM ^
They aren't in our conference, and our supposed "rivalry" with that school has been cancelled, with a stroke of a pen and hand-delivered letter on a game day.
We have very little in common with them. No more than, say, USC or the University of Miami, but for the geographic accident of Notre Dame's location in northern Indiana.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:30 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:32 AM ^
I completely agree with OP. Yes, their coach is an asshole, but it's not like we haven't had asshole coaches. Our programs are almost entirely the same: we value tradition, academics, and class, and both teams fans like to think that we "do it the right way." I have a ton of respect for ND, and to me that's what makes our rivalry unique from our other more hateful ones.
I would say though, from the outside looking in, there's probably a distinct age split in people who hate or respect ND right now. I'm only 18, and pretty much all of my ND memories are of kicking their asses. They have never been a real threat my entire football life, so there's really no reason for me to hate them. Just like I hate MSU, but some of the older fans might see them as more of a nuisance than anything else. The older fans (and by older I mean 30+ or around there, not actually old) grew up with ND being a very real threat to Michigan football, and they saw Michigan lose to ND plenty, often in huge games. This is what allows hate to develop in a rivalrly, and for the younger fans it's just not there.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:33 AM ^
I think the better question is why do you question why most Michigan fans hate ND?
November 18th, 2012 at 10:34 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:42 AM ^
Goddamn Harry Oliver makes a ridiculously improbable FG which was only made possible by a mindbogglingly horseshit ref's call of pass interference on us. Sound familiar?
But among the few teams I hate more than ND is USC, and I'm not going to be disappointed to see the Irish strangle the Trojans in their crib. Like Derek Dooley, Lane Kiffin is a member in good standing of the lucky sperm club. Brian Kelly is obviously as much of a dick as Kiffin is, but that doesn't obscure the point that BK has proven in multiple jobs that he's a damn good coach. Kiffin hasn't proven jack shit other than he's ridden his daddy's coattails.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:39 AM ^
1) Refuse to join a real football conference
2) Psuedo-join another basketball conference to make your schedule easier
3) Cower out of the Michigan series, then take the extra home game on your way out
4) Agree to make Michigan the first game of the year, then schedule warm up games prior to, and break the agreement (of course)
5) Generally place the football program as the most important thing in the whole university
6) Coach is a maniac
I believe that showing some class and honor is still important. ND repeatedly shows it is incapable of showing either.
November 18th, 2012 at 11:10 AM ^
1) Why should they be in a conference? They have the TV deal and have no problems scheduling decent opponents.
2) Conferences are much more important in basketball, so if the Big Ten is pushing them too hard to join, then it seems reasonable that they join a different basketball conference.
3) There are a lot of Michigan fans that wanted to ditch ND.
4) I don't know much about this one, but we have had warmups prior to ND too.
5) Don't tell me that Michigan fans don't. Heck, I went to Michigan for the football program. The degree was a bonus.
6) No team respects an opposing teams good coach. They only respect the coach of the team that they don't have to worry about losing to.
November 18th, 2012 at 3:46 PM ^
I hope you played football for UM, because that is the absolute worst reason to go (or not go) to a school otherwise. And the degree is not the bonus.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:44 AM ^
What are ya, new to the Michigan fan base? Ohio and ND are both undefeated. Our two biggest rivals are undefeated; hence the hate.
November 18th, 2012 at 10:46 AM ^
My step-son-in-law, who is a ND fan told me last night the No. 1 reason to hate ND. He said ND is the "National" team in college football. That they are the only one. That they have the biggest fanbase and are the most popular team in the country.
So I had to ask the question, why do you believe that? He said "Because, it's Notre Dame!"
I said, what the hell does that mean?!? Michigan has more history, at least as much tradition and we taught them football!!!
He came back with, "I don't care about history and all the past I'm talking about today." Conveinent and revisionist history.
The phrase, 'because it's Notre Dame' is the most insufferable statement I have ever heard.
November 18th, 2012 at 12:29 PM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 1:00 PM ^
Zing.............................!
November 18th, 2012 at 10:49 AM ^
If anything, it's because ND winning a national title directly affects Michigan negatively. We go head to head with them for midwest recruits and them winning it all will probably hurt us a lot in head to head battles.
Lastly, their fans are insufferable white people who think it is God's will that Notre Dame be good at football.
Lastly lastly, we will never be able to watch college football final again if Notre Dame wins it all because one of us will literally hunt down Lou Holtz and strangle him with one of Notre Dame's "The Shirt" because he will somehow become even more insufferable. I want to kill him right now actually after he said "No one is playing better than Notre Dame right now" yesterday
I hope someone beats them 70-0 before the year is out. That's why
November 18th, 2012 at 10:50 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 12:29 PM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 10:57 AM ^
They think they are too good for Michigan, eschewing our rivalry with them so they can try and get more money. Money, money, money.
November 18th, 2012 at 11:05 AM ^
And the world is realy coming to an end on 21 December of this year, then one good outcome of that would be that Irish fans wouldn't get to see their team play in the BCS Championship Game.
November 18th, 2012 at 1:26 PM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 5:45 PM ^
No we wouldn't. You aren't that important.
November 18th, 2012 at 11:12 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 11:29 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 11:34 AM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 12:05 PM ^
Two things:
1) I've always hated Notre Dame, but after your little rant I hate them even more.
2) "phork" is a Notre Dame fan. I knew he disliked Michigan but always thought he was a closet sparty fan.
November 18th, 2012 at 1:15 PM ^
I don't hate Michigan. I hate that everything you guys accuse ND fans of being is everything you guys are. As one poster posted above said we share all kinds of history and prestige. You guys taught us football, we perfected it. You guys shun us for not taking the BIGs offer, yet turned us aside when we desperately wanted to join.
Took my Dad on the stadium tour by advice from this very board, suggestions where to eat etc. We had a great day. I love everything UM stands for, because we are mirror images of each other. I cheer against you when our teams play. I look forward to Denard busting huge runs every week because he is the most electric player in CFB.
I love college football because UM vs ND.
November 18th, 2012 at 4:40 PM ^
November 18th, 2012 at 8:16 PM ^
Michigan is nothing like ND. ND is NOT Michigan's mirror image. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.