Why all the ND hatred?

Submitted by Swayze Howell Sheen on November 18th, 2012 at 7:55 AM

A serious question: Why all the ND hatred on the board? A number of other threads talk gleefully of ND getting killed in the championship game by 'bama or some other SEC team, or losing to USC this week. Frankly, I just don't get it.

Yes, they are a rival (at least, for now, while we still play them yearly), but I think the rivalry with ND is different than the OSU and MSU ones. The OSU one is hate + respect; the MSU one is hate + no respect; the ND rivalary, in my opinion, has less hate involved, just two of the most tradition-laden programs in the country playing against one another, often in classic games. Why there is so much enmity in some of the other threads on the board is a puzzle to me.

Beyond that, do people really prefer to see some damn team from the SEC win the title again? I'd *much* rather have a team from the midwest win. Even though ND isn't in the Big Ten, they are much more like a Big Ten team, and finally getting everyone to shut up about how great the SEC is would be fantastic.

Finally, one thing I've seen repeatedly is commentary about how lucky ND has been. Does anyone think there has been a college football champion without luck? If you look back at any undefeated season, there are inevitably a number of plays, which, if they go the wrong way, get you a loss. ND has had a few such plays (Pitt kicker misses in OT, Stanford reaches for goal line but is deemed down), but got the break. Alabama, in contrast, got some breaks against LSU (a game in which they were outplayed), but didn't against A&M, leading to a loss. So sure, they've been lucky, but all undefeated teams get lucky now and then.

Summary for those who think TL and then DR: ND hatred is puzzling; they are a rival of the best kind; I'll be rooting for them against any damn SEC team; sure they are lucky but which unbeaten isn't?


[EDIT: my michigan bio, since it seems to be relevant, as follows. Grew up in Ann Arbor, went to school in Fab Five era, was at many famous UM/ND games including sitting in the rain only to watch Rocket return two kickoffs for TDs. Have published a few diaries here in the past over the years, including a heartbreaking diary of staggering genius, one in which I hate everything, and a piece entitled memories of the game about OSU/UM.]




November 18th, 2012 at 8:00 AM ^

For me, the hate started when ND thought they were too good to join the B1G.  They make all their money from their undeserving, fat NBC contract and stuck their noses up at us.  I feel the same way Bo feels about them.  "To hell with Notre Dame."  

Two Hearted Ale

November 18th, 2012 at 8:09 AM ^

When ND is bad they don't have trouble recruiting, when they are good they take most recruits on a head to head basis, when they win a National Championship they take all the recruits.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:09 AM ^

Because to hell with ND.  Their fans are insufferable, their coach is an ass hole, and they think they're the greatest thing to come to college football since the forward pass. I don't mind the luck, every team gets their share of it. It's everything else I hate. I hate them more than MSU but less than Ohio.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:11 AM ^

I can't speak for others obviously but I have a personal and deep dislike for ND.  It goes back to Reggie Ho, Raghib Ismail, and ND fans I personally know. 

I was also involved in a minor altercation with ND fans in Ann Arbor when I was a senior.  Five of them and two of us at about 3:00 AM.  The good news is they were a little more intoxicated and quite a bit slower.

I don't have any rational reason to dislike them even more than Ohio but I do.

Benoit Balls

November 18th, 2012 at 8:19 AM ^

earliest memories of Notre Dame include Tim Brown and Rocket Ismail crushing my <10 year old soul.  Grbac to Howard was easily one of the best days of my life while I was still a virgin. Notre Dame has always been a solid 1B to Ohio's 1A in my "hate" book. Sparty I never really considered a serious threat to anything other than my couch. Sparty is like "aww...isn't that cute....the little one wants to run with the big dogs".

All that being said, my antipathy for ND has waned a bit over the years. At some point (i think it was 38-0 in 2003) i just started feeling sorry for them. Their fans went from pompous and arrogant to delusional, and it's not nice to make fun of insane people. 

SEC fans are just insufferabe. ESPN shoves it down everyone's throat. And I'm at a point in life where I pretty much despise whatever ESPN is shilling. Case in point, I was a big fan of Rory McIlroy as he was coming up. Now I root for him to lose, just because ESPN has decided to make him their new cash cow for golf.

Wow, pretty sure I just realized I hate ESPN more than Notre Dame. I wish the Irish luck for the rest of the season, even if it will immediately induce vomiting every time I do so. Beat ESPN..errr...the SEC.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:17 AM ^

Is that they have so many built in advantages, that are truly ridiculous, that if they start to utilize them it could be really problematic. Then again, they decided not to play us in the future...

Mr. Robot

November 18th, 2012 at 8:17 AM ^

Notre Dame fans are unbareable enough when they aren't winning national championships and trash talk like they do. If they actually DO get another one then it is going to be that much worse and I don't want to deal with that.

Also, this year in paticular, because I feel they are grossly overrated. Yes, I know, it is difficult to say that about a team that is undefeated, but they've had more than a championship team's worth of lucky breaks this year. It took a 2-minute drive to beat Purdue, a team we now know to be exceptionally bad. We dominated their offense and lost because Denard had the worst game of his career, and we frankly moved the ball at will when we weren't turning it over. They beat Stanford on an absolutely bogus goal line call. They beat Pitt because they were not flagged for having two guys with the same number on the field.

They did, to their credit, beat Oklahoma. That game was not a fluke, they showed up ready to play and they beat them. That, however, is the only quality opponent they've beaten this year without help from the other team beating themselves or help from the officials. They are a good team, good enough for 9 or 10 wins, but they have gotten quite a few breaks to be able to call themselves undefeated and I doubt that is going to cut it if/when they play in the NCG.

To be clear, too, there are a lot of title teams that survive a game on a lucky break. I'm not saying that should preclude you from being deserving of a title, merely that ND has had more than one, and a couple of them have been poor officiating (although not as bad as Colorodo's 5th down; that one deserves an asterisk next to their title).


November 18th, 2012 at 8:36 AM ^

While leaving us in the lurch smarts, it's been clearly demonstrated on the board that they did it to eliminate their toughest Midwest opponent (us, MSU, and Purdue). I can accept that.
I agree with your sentiment. From watching since the 80's I don't remember a time when I viewed the Notre Dame rivalry as anything other than one of mutual respect. I've always liked them more than the other two. No proximity hatred, both storied rivalries, and one hell of a tradition.
The rivalry with Ohio can't be matched, but it's fueled by hatred and backyard recruiting and Woody/Bo rivalry. I absolutely hate Ohio. There were game days I'd literally get angry when seeing the color red.
And MSU I've never felt as worthy of respect. Something about half my friends selling out and going to their school had to contribute.
So I'd rank it the way you did. I have fond memories of those old Notre Dame games in the late 80's and 90's, have seen them as a worthy foe, and have always enjoyed having respect for one of our rivals.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:20 AM ^

We easily drove the ball on this supposedly spectacular ND defense and should have easily won that game. Sad to say but we would have crushed them with Devin. Cant win with 5 TO from your main man. I think USC will beat them and if not, they will get crushed in the NC.


November 18th, 2012 at 10:32 AM ^

You easily drove, you didn't easily score.  You lost.  You guys talk about delusional.  How can you argue with the statisics?  #1 scoring defense, 9TDs scored in 11 games.  No FCS games.

You would have crushed ND with Devin?  Really?  Is that  based on his domination of 3 bad BIG10 teams?  Really?


November 18th, 2012 at 8:20 AM ^

The SEC and the other teams you mention:

1. Don't have a campus next door and recruit against us

2. Aren't right behind us for all time winning %

3. Finally, there was a seven-year span 1987-1993 when ND beat us 4 in a row and were 6-1 against a lot of good Michigan teams. This was the formative years a lot of posters on the blog and they remember the ND smugness and last second wins. It's like being bitten by your neighbors dog as a kid and growing up to hate dogs.


Willis Ward

November 18th, 2012 at 8:48 AM ^

#3 is spot on.  I love to hate Ohio.  If Ohio fell off the face of the earth I would probably shed a tear because the rivalry is so fun (even if the last stretch has been hard).  This week is my favorite week of the year...hating them is fun.

I just hate ND.  If ND fell off the face of the earth it would make me very very happy.

Mr Mxyzptlk

November 18th, 2012 at 8:21 AM ^

I hate ND for a bunch of reasons.  First of all would be their smarmy fans.  I'm originally from the Chicago burbs and ND fans are just as unbearable as Ohio or Lil' Brother.  Next, would be the fact that they just snubbed the B1G in favor of the ACC.  And finally, although I could probably go on, is that they don't deserve the season they are having.  We should've beaten them and a few other teams probably should've too.  ND proves that being lucky is better than being good.

Mabel Pines

November 18th, 2012 at 8:23 AM ^

And can't stand that they think they are the best thing pretty much since Jesus.  Also,everytime my Dad saw Lou Holtz's face, he would say "turkey"!  My Dad hated ND and my Dad was the best guy ever.... 

OK, maybe slightly irrational and emotional, but you asked....


November 18th, 2012 at 8:24 AM ^

I can't speak for others obviously but I have a personal and deep dislike for ND.  It goes back to Reggie Ho, Raghib Ismail, and ND fans I personally know. 

I was also involved in a minor altercation with ND fans in Ann Arbor when I was a senior.  Five of them and two of us at about 3:00 AM.  The good news is they were a little more intoxicated and quite a bit slower.

I don't have any rational reason to dislike them even more than Ohio but I do.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:28 AM ^

Why should we hate Ohio? Or slivers and mosquito bites? In fact I think I enjoy being hungry and thirsty too. For someone who asks the question can never understand the answer. I despise ND because every ounce of my souls tells me to. When I see someone in a ND hat or shirt I immediately dislike them and although I am wise enough to know that's irrational, I don't care. ND is not God's team or Ireland's team but rather a perennial fraud who thinks they are the Alpha and Omega of college football....to hell with Notre Dame

Mr. Yost

November 18th, 2012 at 8:56 AM ^

They should've loss to Stanford and they would've lost to Pitt if their kicker would've made something a little further than a chip shot in OT.

ND should be #1 with the result of their games...but they should have 3 losses because 3 teams have given then W's this year.

Willis Ward

November 18th, 2012 at 8:39 AM ^

Because ND fans (generally) don't acknowledge that there are other great college football programs outside of South Bend.  Alabama fans, Texas fans, Nebraska fans, Michigan fans, etc. generally get that there are at least a dozen programs that have been great for decades.  I may think Michigan has the best tradition out there but I know I'm biased and can acknowledge that a few other schools at least come close.  Notre Dame believes they are alone at the top.  And now that they have finally returned to glory, they are going to be even worse.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:44 AM ^

ND and their attitude of entitlement makes me sick. It's summed up by "Returning to Glory... Since 1993." Even when they were horrible their fans acted like they were on the cusp of an NC if not for a few unlucky plays, blown calls, recruits that didn't pan out, poor coaching decisions, etc. No, it's not that. It's that you're fucking AWFUL at football. At least we admitted that we sucked when we did. Plus BK is a massive dick.

It looks like they're probably going to the NC game. If so, Roll Tide! I hate ND WAY more than I hate the SEC. Today, tomorrow, always.

Brown Bear

November 18th, 2012 at 8:48 AM ^

If you have to ask this question you must live in one of those rare pockets of the world that doesn't have nd fans. Because if you lived around any you wouldn't question hatred at all for that pit of filth that is nd nation.


November 18th, 2012 at 8:49 AM ^

Norte Dame is Michigan. Tradition, good academics and usually good football. The reality is most fans think rivalries are hate driven. As I grow older i become more disgusted with "fans" who only seem to cheer a team to be able to rub it in the face of other "fans". I enjoy a fun back and forth and am lucky to know OSU fans who don't take it that seriously. In closing if you would actually try and fight a OSU, MSU or ND fan please seek help because you put sports at too high a priority in life.