Who should/will get the next statue at Michigan?

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on

My answer: Yost

He built the football program and really the athletic department. Created The Big House.

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JetFuelForBreakfast

August 14th, 2017 at 12:48 AM ^

Nothing like kids who laugh at Columbus for not realizing he hadn't gone as far West as he thought....you know, the smart ones who grew up with 500 years extra information, text books, satellite maps or other current contextual data that gave them just a bit of a leg up to make fun of those who actually had to figure it out. Most human context of right/wrong is directly influenced by how we were raised and educated by our parents and society...if our "education" is flawed or flat out wrong by today's standards, typically it is life's experience that helps all of us grow into a new understanding that provides a new framework for our perspective, beliefs and values. Otherwise, we might as well take down ALL statues (which might not hurt), because from racism, ethinicism, adultery, sexism, cultural bigotry (by today's standards at a minimum), etc., VERY FEW (likely none) will pass any litmus test of personal flaws that aren't understandably abhorrent to someone. If Willis Ward believed that Yost's understanding and values had changed over his life experience, I'd give his opinion much greater value than any of us typing on a blog in 2017 self imposing our narrowly framed understanding of either of their values 7 decades later.

Joined: 03/11/2017

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Bando Calrissian

August 14th, 2017 at 1:03 AM ^

No, it's pretty easy to look at Yost's record in this regard.

He coached at Michigan for 25 years. He never once coached a black player. Not one. He made sure of it. Kipke had to all but physically fight Yost to put Willis Ward on the football team--and may very well have actually fought him in Yost's office.

But, hey, whatever. Don't believe me? We all seem to like John U. Bacon around here.

http://michiganradio.org/post/sad-step-backward-michigan-football-histo…

Yost created Michigan Football as we know it. That's great. He was a great coach. That's great. We all know that story, and the old fieldhouse bears his name. That's fine, and a fitting tribute, since he built the place. But just because you don't want to acknowledge his racism out of some "we can't walk in his shoes" nonsense doesn't mean he wasn't a racist. He was. And he acted on it through his power at the helm of the Michigan Athletic Department and the football team.

And as a final word on the matter, a thought: I'd like to think Michigan would not put up a statue of a man who didn't want black football players suiting up for Michigan when football is a sport at Michigan now played predominantly by black football players. "He didn't want you here, but you're going to have to walk by his statue anyway." Great message.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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Everyone Murders

August 14th, 2017 at 8:43 AM ^

This is an accurate description of Yost.  He had a fatal flaw - racism - and it's not one to just gloss over because he otherwise was a stellar football coach.

I recognize that most of the prominent figures of the past had flaws.  Systemic racism (such as excluding blacks from the field of play) is a major one, and remains so today.  (One can imagine in some schools that a coach might get ostracized for using coarse language.  While that may have been a legitimate flaw "back in the day", I don't care how salty someone's language was vis-a-vis whether they should be honored today.  I do care if they were racist.)

Long story short - I know it's potentially unpopular to criticize anyone with many more Ws than Ls next to his name, so a tip of the hat to Bando for carrying the charge.

Joined: 12/14/2010

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ST3

August 14th, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^

Do you believe that people can change? Do you believe that people should be condemned for their actions/beliefs during one period of their lives, while ignoring the fact that they had a change of heart later in life?

Please consider the following:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Slavery-12695…

Franklin himself had owned slaves, run ads in his Pennsylvania Gazette to secure the return of fugitive slaves, and defended the honour of slaveholding revolutionaries. By 1781, however, Franklin had divested himself of slaves, and shortly thereafter he became the president of the Pennsylvania Abolition Society. He also went further than most of his contemporaries by signing a petition to the First Federal Congress in 1790 for the abolition of slavery and the slave trade.

Should we remove Franklin from the currency and tear down his statues because he owned slaves? Following Bando's - once a racist, always a racist - logic, we should. I prefer that we celebrate his intellectual conversion on the matter. It takes real courage and integrity to do what is right when one is in the minority. It's a lot simpler to go along to get along. Yost took a stand later in life. I'm sorry it took him longer to get there than you or I would like, but times were very different back then.

Joined: 09/11/2010

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Bando Calrissian

August 14th, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^

What's this grand redemption story you keep aiming for? Because time has passed, we're supposed to just let the warts fall away? Or that people change from the grave?

In what way did Yost "take a stand" before it was prudent to do so?

He coached a segregated football team without apology. For 25 years. Sorry if that gets in the way of your conception of Fielding Yost.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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Everyone Murders

August 14th, 2017 at 11:45 AM ^

I'm a huge advocate of people redeeming themselves through change.  I think it's a wonderful thing.  I've posted as much many times on this here board.

That said, declining to put up a statue of someone is not exactly damning them for past sins.  It's more saying "why would we put up a statue of someone who had a multiple-decade history of excluding black athletes from Michigan athletics?".  Especially in a day and age when racism is far from in our rearview mirror.

George Wallace famously moderated his views after he got shot, but he's still identified with his earlier positions.  I applaud him for moderating his positions (although most of my knowledge of that is based on Drive-By Trucker songs!).  The point is that racism is a big part of Wallace's history.  And racism is a big part of Yost's too.

It's too big a blot on his history for my tastes, and not a single or a couple of incidents here.  Curiously, I don't feel any personal compulsion to pull his name off of Yost Ice Arena - so I'm admittedly a bit flakey on this. 

YMMV.

Joined: 12/14/2010

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Mr. Yost

August 13th, 2017 at 11:16 PM ^

I'm not jumping into the coversation on Yost...but how is not honoring or building a statue for someone "tossing a person aside" or "damning them to hell?"

We don't have a statue of Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson, are we tossing them aside or damning them to hell? Honest question.

I'd say your comment was extreme, but I feel like that's an understatement.

There is no problem with moral purity being included in honoring someone. Again, not referring to this coversation. But wake the fuck up.

I'd sarcastically say "let's get USC to get a statue of OJ" - but I just called you extreme, so I'll take this one off.

Joined: 07/25/2011

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Bando Calrissian

August 13th, 2017 at 6:38 PM ^

Seriously, is anyone legitimately clamoring for statues of anyone on campus? There were folks who even thought the Bo statue was weird. It's the only one. Put Hutch's name on Alumni Field. Name the ice surface after Red. Yost and Crisler already have arenas. Statues? Not so much.

Joined: 07/02/2008

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H8anythingState

August 13th, 2017 at 7:18 PM ^

Since his vision of Michigan came true. When he built the original stadium, he over built the foundation. He knew before hand what greatness lay ahead for Michigan. He is the reason we have the biggest stadium in the country. Him! Great visionary...

Joined: 05/01/2017

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brad

August 13th, 2017 at 7:42 PM ^

I would say no one. But if we are going to make one for Bo, the other great legends like Yost and Crisler and Berenson might as well get a statue. If they did a understatated statue yard outside the stadium, similar to the little graveyard outside the Kremlin, that could be respectfully meaningful without overdoing it.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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Mr. Yost

August 13th, 2017 at 11:24 PM ^

I've always thought we should unretire jersey numbers and make a monument park like the Yankees. This way we can truly honor all of our football legends. There is no reason some of those guys should be honored but Carter, Howard, Woodson, etc. aren't.

This frees up numbers, eliminates any thoughts of a fucking patch, doesn't clutter the front of the press boxes/suites. It's also something that could be visited year round. It also allows you to honor championship TEAMS (outside of Schembechler Hall).

Image result for yankee memorial parkImage result for yankee memorial park

 

...I'm not crazy about this execution, but I think a monument park is the best answer to honor our legends.

Joined: 07/25/2011

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Esterhaus

August 13th, 2017 at 8:51 PM ^

Because nobody within the past 100 years has died from the food. That we know. Although there are strange rumors of recycling those who may have succumbed.

Joined: 03/16/2015

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LSAClassOf2000

August 13th, 2017 at 10:27 PM ^

The Salisbury steak in South Quad did send a few people screaming into the night, and now that I think about it, I am not entirely sure that all of them returned to classes eventually. This will bother me for the rest of the night now incidentally, taking stock of who may not have returned from various midweek meals. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

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Mr. Elbel

August 13th, 2017 at 8:53 PM ^

Zoltan Mesko punting a 5 year old version of WD. /s ...should actually be yost, red, hutch. Eventually Harbaugh might get one, but hopefully not for 50 years.

Joined: 03/02/2014

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jethro34

August 13th, 2017 at 9:42 PM ^

The Michigan way seems more like naming buildings than building statues, but much of that comes from former employees. I wonder if there will ever be permanent statues for former players. I would love to see a Woodson statue of "The Catch".

Joined: 01/28/2011

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