What could RichRod do to lose support?
In reading many of the comments on the recent fun times with the NCAA, it's clear that most here remain strongly in support of RichRod. I think it can fairly be debated whether or not the alleged major violations are indeed "major", whether the media is out to get the coach/program and whether or not the losses are his fault.
For some, RR has done enough to lose his job (from the win-loss record to the current allegations). For others, he has done nothing to put that job in jeopardy. For those in the latter category, I wonder what (if anything) RichRod could do for which his termination (whether now or at a later date) would be justified?
I'm not asking this sarcastically, but I genuinely wonder where the bar is set in terms of tolerating concerns with his handling of the program.
February 24th, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
I used the word "serious" instead of "major" on purpose. He'd lose my support if proof of academic fraud or players being paid came out (assuming he should have known about these things)...Losing after he's had the chance to re-stock the team would cost him my support too. He hasn't had that chance at this point...I still think that the end of the Coach Rodriguez story is going to be him getting U of M back to the Rose Bowl.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:02 PM ^
RR has had troubles - but I am confident that by the time 2010 ends we will all be laughing about ever doubting RR's success at Michigan.
I have spent last two days watching all possible YouTube clips of RR's teams and I am certain in my belief that He Will Be Successful at Michigan. I am willing to bet my 10 MGoPoints (edited - now 15) on it! :-)
All this bad news is only stoking the fires that will propel RR's team forward.
February 24th, 2010 at 4:36 PM ^
He could:
-change the helmets to feature a cartoon squirrel
-lose 10 games
-pay players to murder prostitutes?
-answer media questions by saying, "Fuck Y'all."
Really? Nothing would change your opinion?
February 24th, 2010 at 4:59 PM ^
I'd actually like it better if he answered media questions with "Fuck Y'all."
February 24th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^
If he fails to win seven games this season (although I believe he needs to win eight, unless he's beaten OSU with one of those seven), then I will acknowledge that Rich Rodriguez was not the right man for the job. That's the on-field side of things.
If there were, say, four more incidents similar to Justin Feagin's within a six month span, I would say that I'd had enough (something that indicated off the field lack of control).
If he went crazy in the waning moments of a victory over Ohio State and smacked Jim Tressel, I'd nominate him for a Pulitzer in Poetry.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^
... until then, I have to believe that more intelligent people with more knowledge than I are making the decisions that are right for my Alma Mater.
Go blue, forever!
February 24th, 2010 at 5:28 PM ^
By that standard, RR could:
-kill a hobo
-get eliminated first on Tool Academy 4
-change our colors to Jack and Daniels
-change the Victors to Whomp There It Is
...and that'd all be cool with you? Really?
If you walked to the end of the Earth, would you fall over the edge?
February 24th, 2010 at 6:04 PM ^
I'm fairly certain that killing a hobo would boost his approval rating with a lot of people.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^
He could start a small riot at a local fraternity house, assaulting various innocent (albeit stupid) college students. That'd probably do it. Or have extramarital affairs with multiple loose women ranging from porn stars and escorts to a Perkins waitress.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^
I was in the camp that Rod could get 6-7 wins this season and I'd still support him. But now with revelations of the NCAA allegations and possible probation, scholarship loss, and recruiting and practice restrictions, anything less than 8 wins and Rod has to go. I'm out of patience and tired of the negativity with the buyout fiasco, back to back losing seasons, embarrassing losses, and now the first possible NCAA penalties against Michigan football.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
RR doesn't get 2011 anymore, he's got to win in 2010, and not just 6 or 7 games. 8 or 9.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:18 PM ^
I'm wondering what you think has changed in the past few days that has caused you to so drastically change your opinion. Has Rich Rod done something that you are ashamed of and were not aware of before? Furthermore, what makes you believe that this team is ready to compete for a Big Ten title in 2010? Please provide specific details. Thanks.
February 24th, 2010 at 3:11 PM ^
I'm guessing a few think that while he wasn't trying something nefarious to gain an unfair advantage (like oversigning?) that there was still negligence going on in his program. Even if it's some bureaucrats in the AD who were supposed to keep track of this stuff so coaches can focus on the actual game, the leaders have to take responsibility. This should include other AD officials too, right? Of course since Rodriguez is under other pressure, he is singled out.
Also, some of us are swayed a little by public opinion. I am a little too, honestly. It's just something subconscious when you constantly see nothing but negative press for the man. Not that I think it has a good foundation, mind you. I'm still definitely in the camp that would give him until 2011, just occasionally feel overwhelmed by this junk.
February 24th, 2010 at 4:39 PM ^
Didn't really answer either of my questions but still a good level-headed response. Thanks! :)
February 24th, 2010 at 2:28 PM ^
... your upset about our program getting sanctioned, but one or two extra wins will make you less upset? Your moral compass is that flexible?
February 24th, 2010 at 2:09 PM ^
Its "7 or no '11 for RR next year, and rightfully so.......
The thing that scares me is that for the most part this board as a community has been saying for 2 years, that 2011 will be Rich Rods year, and now theres quite a bit of talk saying that 2012 is the one, I believe we need to be patient, but what has really happened that would justify this "target year" being pushed back more & more?
February 24th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
It would take some kind of Weisian team meltdown for me to advocate firing RichRod. 4 straight years of losing would probably do it.
Even if I hated the guy personally (which I don't), I just think it would set the school back too much to have to go through another coaching search and regime change. Things are bad now, but it would be even worse if we lost half of our team (again) and our entire coaching staff (again).
February 24th, 2010 at 4:30 PM ^
What does "Weisian team meltdown" mean to you? Is there a specific number of losses you put on that? I'd say that we already have such a meltdown.
Further, if your concern is how things could be worse if we change coaches...why would that be better after two more years of losing? I think he has zero chance of remaining the coach without 8+ wins.
February 24th, 2010 at 5:33 PM ^
You can't put an exact win total on it. I generally believe that, as long as he doesn't break the law or do something monumentally stupid, a coach should get at least 4 years. Weis got 5.
For Notre Dame, the win total didn't matter. Everyone knew that Weis was a goner after the Navy and UConn losses. He recruited well, got his guys on the field and they consistently underperformed. When we get to that point with RichRod, we'll all know it.
As it is, RichRod still has a chance to turn it around. The team has been extremely unstable with a high turnover rate for 2 years now. When things things normalize and Rod's recruits see the field, the clock will start ticking, in my opinion.
Barring a 1, 2 or 3 win season, I don't see Michigan firing RichRod after 2010. Yes, I think he will still be here if we go 4-8. Michigan will be (and should be) at least as patient as Notre Dame. I do not believe the Irish kept Weis around for too long - they made the right moves with him (aside from the terrible contract, but that's only money).
February 24th, 2010 at 5:45 PM ^
Wow! Fair enough. At 4-8, I think his bags would be packed for him. Can you imagine the uproar from alums if he isn't fired at 4-8? It would make present day rumblings appear as silence.
February 24th, 2010 at 6:23 PM ^
On the field, I think its absolutely crazy (as in irrational) to judge a coach before the END of his 4th year. (In a sense, I think that winning 5 or 10 games TOTAL in 3 years is within 3 standard deviations, i.e., reasonably possible even with the best coach).
In that sense I would go further than HeismanPose: since this will be RR's third year, really, even 1-11 or 2-10 would be acceptable (horrifying, but acceptable, just the same). Of course, at that total, there would need to be some D*MN good reasons why they did so poorly (e.g., losing 10 starters to injuries). Really at 4-8 I wouldn't need a reason.
Note that this is wins and losses only. If a coach shows that he doesn't have a strong (though imperfect) character (off the field or on the field), then he is a goner.
I have two reasons for this take, both important:
1) It isn't fair to judge a coach before the end of his 4th year.
2) It is not in Michigan's best interest to get rid of a coach before the end of his 4th year. You are basically "Notre Daming" yourself. Guaranteeing another transition and in all likelihood two disappointing seasons anyway. Yes, there are exceptions, but if you did an analysis of coaching changes and look at the average number of wins and losses the first two years. I would expect, on average, poor years, even accounting for the program in question.
As far as the current "major" violations are concerned, they are silly. It is possible that RR pushed practice times a bit (not saying probable, just definitely possible), but, if true, that is a small black mark against him, not a big one.
February 24th, 2010 at 7:12 PM ^
If he only wins one game, and somehow isn't fired, you might be the only "fan" left. I use "fan" loosely there because at that point, you're a fan of RichRod, not the team.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
Is this RRs fault? Not entirely so but it has happened under his watch. Look what happened to Moeller for doing what most of us have done. Not even remotely embarrassing as the events of the past 2 years and he was gone.
Hopefully Brandon can help with the PR. I think UofM can turn this into a positive by working with the NCAA to shed some reality on their legalese rules.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
My support for RichRod is waning based upon the recent allegations. Something just doesn't sit right. However, I think he is a great coach and that we'll see that on the field beginning this year. Can you be somewhat supportive, or is this a all in for Michigan thing?
February 24th, 2010 at 2:14 PM ^
I used to live by a Flanders Street and every time I drove by I would mutter "Stupid Flanders."
I think you're similar to me; I'm supportive right now, but if he doesn't win *this* season, I'll be hoping they bring in someone better.
February 24th, 2010 at 4:27 PM ^
I think you can certainly support the team while remaining unsure about the coach. It isn't like the team has been accused of wrongdoing.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:14 PM ^
Have 3 losing seasons
Not go to 3 Bowl games in a row
Get the entire program on probation
and keep his job in 2011.
It's now or never for RR at Michigan. I'm a RR supporter but yesterday was not a good day for him and basically gives Michigan "an out" if they want to move him after the 2010 season.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:17 PM ^
He gets a pass for years 1 and 2. Not so from here on out.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^
Moeller got canned for a dust up in a bar with a couple of Tosu fans. He never put the program at risk. Today we have a coach with two losing seasons, no bowl appearances, multiple NCAA violations against his program, and we are still talking about what will it take to get rid of him? I don't get it. I was a big Rich Rod fan. I thought he was what we needed. Now, all I see is that he has brought embarassment to my school, and to the program which has been one of highest integrity. I am glad that Martin is gone and will be when Brandon makes the other move that must be done to ensure our credibility going forward. Negpoints commence.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
FWIW, I don't think you're wrong to see things that way. We are all having a low moment to be sure.
February 24th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
I thought Moeller was public urination, but anyway you make a good point. RR sure gets a lot more slack than previous coaches. That's why I posed the question to his supporters...at what point do you stop supporting the guy?
February 24th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
If the University's internal report had laid this all at Rod's feet, they would not have had the type of press conference they had yesterday. brandon (who isn't even on the job) woulnd't have stood next to him and guaranteed his job, let alone mary sue. it would have been a whole different show. so jumping to conclusions about rod is premature as long as we dont know what the university knows and who it blames
given that, the only way these events really change my perception of rod is to further strengthen my suspicion that he's just a magnet for criticism and drama and the only way any of us will ever get any sleep is to let the freep run the program, hire brady hoke as coach and lose games in peace
fun times
February 24th, 2010 at 4:23 PM ^
...but what does it take for you to stop supporting him?
Clearly, you feel that these events are the result of others disliking RR. If he were to pull a Dantonio and drive a player from prison to practice...would that lose your support? Lose 7 games this season?
February 24th, 2010 at 6:01 PM ^
Ill know it when I see it.
What you're doing right now is fishing for absolutes in an effort to later hold people to an arbitrary prediction. This is all predicated on the fact that you wish RichRod were fired today, but don't want to outright say it.
Tell us, what would it take for him to regain your support?
February 24th, 2010 at 6:12 PM ^
your definition, that is...
Anyway, I would be fine with RR getting the ax today, but I don't think it's practical. We won't get the best replacement and the University is going to want to cut his contract. So, they need to wait for violations to be finalized.
Which brings us to...what would it take for me to support him again (a good and fair question)?
-8 wins (minimum)
-Dropping the piped-in music (or changing away from the jock jams format)
-An apology for his first two seasons without passing blame on others
-A big improvement in his media relations skills
-A squeaky clean NCAA violations record going forward.
With that, I would fully support RR.
February 24th, 2010 at 9:18 PM ^
-I agree with your point about piped-in music.
-With Dave Brandon as AD, I believe RR's media relations skills will steadily improve.
-If he does get the program back on top, I believe there will be some type of "apology" to appease the old guard(once all this nonsense is "behind us")
I disagree on number of wins, though. If we beat ND, MSU, and OSU, I'd be content with 6-6. I'm a realist, but hate placing an definitive number on it.
If RR loses the support of his players, my support will likely erode as well.
February 24th, 2010 at 8:25 PM ^
RR to apologize for the first two seasons? Huh? RR nor any of RR's staff should have to apologize for working their asses off to build their program. An apology would be inappropriate and strange.
If anything, the torch-wielding vultures and Freep editors should apologize to RR when Michigan football wins #8 next season and the Freep-induced shit storm falls away into nothingness.
February 24th, 2010 at 9:34 PM ^
If I fucked up in my job (and yes, I consider two of the worst seasons in program history to be "fucking up"), I would certainly apologize for my poor performance and hope to keep my job.
Not everyone likes to accept responsibility. After all, Drew Sharp put a totally weak defense on the field, and Justin Boren's spread offense was for shit!
February 24th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
I suppose if he finishes the next two season below .500 I would be concerned and the AD would probably be out new coach shopping. No matter what their record, I will always support the current coach and team. I supported Bo, Mo and LC 100 percent of the time! RR really has not had enough time, he should get at least 4 years to turn the program around. I think he is well on his way IMO!
February 24th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
the team has to win at least 7 games this year. I actually felt that way before yesterday, but I am more staunch in my belief today. Really, the team is young but there should be no excuse not to win 7 games (not including bowl) this fall.
I can't take many more negative headlines, regardless of where they come from. I have bled blue my entire life and to watch this program in such a downward spiral is killing me. I support RR but the man has to win. Period.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:38 PM ^
While the list of allegations is long, the infractions which supposedly took place are relatively minor. Yes, the NCAA undoubtedly will do something to Michigan... hey everyone, CALM DOWN.
Not keeping adequate practice logs? Not counting stretching as part of regular exercise periods? Practices going an extra 20-30 minutes? Should we dissolve the football program?
Let's go back to where our mindset was maybe one week ago. If we see a team that is improved over 2008 and 2009, and shows promise for the next few seasons, leave it at that.
I liked CoachRod last week(and this week, also), and despite this garbage that the Freep has stirred up, I am standing by him. I personally believe we win 8 or 9 games this fall.
P.S. For some laughs, go to the Freep(just this one time)and read Drew Sharp's laughable column, and some of the comments. Hilarious. That is one tormented dude.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:45 PM ^
The 20 minutes issue only, end of story lets move on. The problem the NCAA is having is the same one I am. Its the QSC's. They are supposed to be arms length from the team and there role is to ensure compliance. What the hell are they doing in coaches meeting and why are they assisting in coaching? Did these people decide on their own to start to coach, or were they instructed by the staff on what to look for and provide assistance to the player. If that is what they were told to do, then, the coaching staff knows better and they have left the program wide open to scrutiny.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:35 PM ^
*Openly losing the support of his players.
*Trying to wallpaper over any substantiated allegations or blame them on others.
*2010 record -- I like the guy so much that I would probably still support him with another 5-7 season.
Fortunately, none of this stuff is going to happen.
My dream scenario: The NCAA final ruling is handed down in late October. The story has a one-day life cycle because we're 7-1 and ranked #11.
Go Blue!
February 24th, 2010 at 2:47 PM ^
The thing I don't understand is the practice log thing. Did Rodriguez not have to do them at WVU? Did someone else take care of them for him there, and he just assumed that would be the case at UM? I just don't get how you go a year and a half without turning a single log in, and no one in the athletic department says anything to him, Bill Martin, or anyone else? So Lloyd turns them in up until December 2007, and then suddenly January 2008 rolls around and they stop, and no one says a peep. I don't get it.
February 24th, 2010 at 3:01 PM ^
wvu didnt have them
February 24th, 2010 at 3:23 PM ^
Unless you can provide a link, there's no way I'm buying this. If WVU didn't/doesn't have them, then that means they aren't required by the NCAA (since obviously if it was a requirement everyone would have them). If they aren't required, then how could the NCAA punish a program for not keeping records that they don't have to keep?
February 24th, 2010 at 7:36 PM ^
Each school gets to write their own compliance procedures (within general NCAA guidelines) and is required to follow them. (CARA-forms for UM)
West Virginia's compliance procedures did not include CARA-forms.
February 25th, 2010 at 6:23 PM ^
It's an internal tool. And we're not being punished for not having them per se, it's that without them it's tough to substantiate what was counted as stretching etc...
February 24th, 2010 at 2:49 PM ^
What would it take for Rich Rod to lose my support?
Starting approximately 15 threads asking what it would take for him to lose my support.