Webber at Crisler -- his picture

Submitted by massblue on October 24th, 2014 at 2:16 PM

It seems the repairing of the links to Fab five has started.  CW's picture now appears in Crisler. I am not sure how to feel about this.  He did hurt the program, but also one cannot deny the fact that Fab five put UM basketball on the map.

Link

Comments

BornSinner

October 24th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^

Yes Glen Rice will be remembered along with that team for the crazy conditions in which they won after the HC was fired and Rice's insane PPG record through the tournament. 

The Fab Five will still be remembered (if not more than the 89 team overall nationally) for a new age they ushered in from basketball fashion (influencing Allen Iverson and the long shorts etc) and UNPRECDENTED success for FRESHMEN. 

Before the Fab Five, freshmen leading teams were unheard of. They also brought the swag factor into the game along with their youth basketball success. 

Too bad they have no trophies or titles to account for it. Instead all we have are the Ed Martin Scandal and the infamous Timeout. 

 

M-Dog

October 25th, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^

Too bad they have no trophies or titles to account for it. 

They cut down Final Four nets two years in a row.  

Think back to March when Kentucky hit that three to deny Michigan a trip to the Final Four and how upset you were for days after about it.  Then tell me it's not a big deal.

 

gmoney41

October 25th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^

To me the 89 championship team is my favorite team.  I have dogged the fab five because for all of the hype, they never won anything.  Sure, getting to the final four is a great accomplishment, but no big ten titles, no National titles.  But that doesn't mean that I hate the fab five, I really liked that team.  I don't know if anyone has the highlights of the 97 all star game where glen rice WENT OFF.  There is a sweet C-Web to Glen Rice fast break that was beautiful.

Bodogblog

October 24th, 2014 at 2:24 PM ^

This is great news.  He was a fantastic Wolverine player, yes he made mistakes.  I wait for the apology - I do think that' s needed - but I like that the school is taking a step toward him like this. 

UMfan21

October 24th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^

About time.  What he did off the floor, he has already paid his dues.  It's time to acknowledge what he did on the court.  He was a phenominal talent that put in all the blood, sweat and tears that other guys did.  His hard work should be recognized.

 

jmdblue

October 24th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

I'm willing to forgive, but he's never even acknowledged the damage he did to Michigan.  He was a middle class kid with enormous talent, a winning smile, and a multi-million dollar future and it wasn't enough.  He wanted Ed Martin's money too.  Kids make mistakes.  I understand that.  But he needs to own up to those mistakes and mend fences with his own teammates and the university.  He won't do it.  The school doesn't mean enough to him to won a little public shame.  Whatever,  Both Juwan and Jalen have grown into men we can be proud of.

Blue_by_U

October 24th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^

the punishment handed down to the kids who attended Duke, Iowa, NC and a number of other schools on Ed's payroll? Martin didn't pay UM kids, he paid Detroit kids who he thought would make it big and thus make him big. So sick of this Webber shit...I went to school at UM with Chris, kid paid his dues, he screwed up like most any other collegiate athlete anymore...why is he the only villain in this story?

jmdblue

October 24th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^

(other than for lying to the FBI)... I don't care about those "other kids" at other schools and I don't know if they've been punished either. His actions contributed to leaving our basketball program in tatters and made it's fans the laughing stock of the Big Ten.  Remember what we said about OSU and free tattoos?  If, by punishment, you mean not honoring him for being part of Michigan basketball then he needs to acknowledge his mistakes and meet the program  half way at least.  Like I said.  He won't do it.  He's a rich dude and a C- TV personality.  Why would he acknowledge any wrong doing when he appears to be able to rationalize any behavior he wants.  

UMfan21

October 24th, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^

Being fined for criminal contempt in a court of law.  Seeing every award, statistic and banner that he and his teammates earned be removed or asterisked.  Being forcibly distanced from the program for 10 years.  And having to constantly have this black cloud over his head, which likely will never go away.

He didn't murder someone.  He was a high school kid who took a lot of cash like a lot of Ed Martin's other kids.  Webber is no angel.  He made a mistake.  He won't apologize.  He could conduct himself better.  However, his punishment fit the crime in my opinion.

I would love to see those banners and stats go back up.  Not for Webber, but for all the other innocent kids on those teams who worked their asses off and had their work be erased because of Webber's mistake.

Hell, if I had my way, I'd let them all back, re-raise the banners and have an exhibit in Crisler about the Fab five and what mistakes were made and how it decimated the program.  Don't hide it, but don't celebrate it either.  Put it out there, right next to Chris' photo for all to see so it's not repeated.

Sac Fly

October 24th, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^

He hurt the school more than he hurt the fans and the school was able to put it in the past.

If the University can forgive him, so should you.

MGoBrewMom

October 24th, 2014 at 3:51 PM ^

in regards to hurting the school more than the fans; I think the fans (and alumni) are an enormous part of the school, so there's that, and they were also hurt.  And the discussion is Chris Webber, the others aren't really discussed the same.  I feel the same way about them.  But he is the one who everyone keeps talking about.  So, when he gets criticized, people either go to the "he was a kid" or "there were others too!" card.  You can't discuss something, and then when someone brings up an argument, change the topic.  The discussion was about him.  I'm equally as disappointed in them, but that's not who is being discussed.

Don't get me wrong, I really want to forgive him.  I was such a huge fan, and got to enjoy the time the Fab 5, first hand (I graduated in '91).  I just think to say "let it go, forgive him" to people that defended him while he lied, is asking too much when he can't even admit that he did break the rules.  You can argue the rules, you can argue the excitement he brought, but you can't argue his integrity.  It disappoints me. 

The autographed photo I have of a bald-headed, long-shorts wearing, slam dunking CWebb with his Michigan Uniform on is wrapped in paper, behind my bookshelf, waiting for him to just say he's sorry..accept SOME sort of accountability.  "I was a kid..blah blah..."  Anything would be better, imo.  That's all.  I'm not trying to be a jerk...just my opinion.

jmdblue

October 24th, 2014 at 4:00 PM ^

and to further the point, the other members of the Fab 5 have made amends - with the school  meeting half way.  Remorse was felt and we all went merrily on our way - now with Jalen finding a nice source of funding for his educational project in fellow Michigan people.  Chris, on the other hand, can't see where he may have been wrong about anything.  As I've inferred elsewhere in this thread, Webber's offense is certainly more embarrasing that T. Pryor's and Pryor actually seems to have grown up a little (even if OSU fans haven't).  We talk about Webber because he is the guy who took the most and owns up to the the least (nothing).

Mr. Yost

October 24th, 2014 at 4:22 PM ^

So I respect it...but at this point, that does sorry really accomplish?

That sends such a shitty message in my eyes. Sorry isn't the fixer of everything. If you truly feel that passionately about something, sorry doesn't fix it.

He's a grown man, at this point he knows right from wrong and he understands what "sorry" means...he could've said that 10 years ago. He hasn't so it's not like that's a secret password back into the Michigan circle, or is it in your opinion.

My opinion, I think it sends a horrible message to kids...say sorry and all is forgiven. Well, unless you do something REALLY bad, because I've never heard anyone ask Sandusky for an apology. 

So I guess I don't know what 41 year old man saying "sorry" about something that happened 20 years prior really means. He's a grown man. If he cheated on his wife, does "sorry" fix that? No...maybe his actions do, I'm not his wife, I don't know what - if anything - he could do for forgiveness in her eyes. I'm almost certain it's more than just "hey, sorry!" He's grown, he understands the power and limitations of that word. We all (adults) do.

If it's just about pride and ego, then cool...that's your thing. But let's make it about personal pride and ego and less about true forgiveness and remorse.

So what does sorry really mean? And not being sarcastic, but does he have to say it a certain way? Does it have to be a teary press conference? Can he Tweet it? Should it be an essay like LeBron James? Or can he just walk on campus and say "Michigan, I'm sorry" and that be good enough? 

Again, because this is MGoBlog it's going to come off as dickish, and that's fine...but I truly am interested in why so many people just want "sorry." I ask again, because pride and ego and a firm stance...you know, "it's the principle of the matter." Or is it really for forgivesness and remore?

jmdblue

October 24th, 2014 at 4:45 PM ^

I had just taken the toughest basketball loss in my life and I needed a change and a new challenge so I chose to go to the NBA.  Soon afterward it was discovered I had taken money from a booster from my hometown of Detroit.  At the time I didn't think it was wrong.  The University was making a lot of money from our talent and I didn't feel my getting something in return was wrong.  I still don't know how wrong my taking money was, but I do know that my university paid a heavy price for my breaking NCAA rules.  I also know that many fans defended me vehemently right up until the day it was shown that I had broken the rules and had lied about it.  Years have passed and pride has prevented me from coming forward and admitting I was wrong.  I was.  I'd now like to do anything I can to repair my relationship with my university and the fans who supported me.  Thanks for listening and Go Blue!

There... I wrote it in 5 minutes..  He can have it and it would repair everything.  He'll never do it because he doesn't give a shit. 

Does "sorry" repair a marriage?  depends on whether she believes how badly you're hurting over it.  Does "sorry" get a kid forgiveness when he fucks up?  I'm glad it did in my case (repeatedly).  Does "sorry" help Sandusky?  Maybe with those who may still love him.  You have to mean and feel "sorry", but it does matter.

Mr. Yost

October 24th, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^

So for you, you need a heartfelt essay...not just "sorry."

But we're not all the same, for me, an essay doesn't change anything. It could just mean he got some guy to write something for him and put his name on like LeBron did when he came back to Cleveland. Different circumstances, but for me, that doesn't cut it. That's just me.

If he would've said those things when it happened or after the trial or after his career...maybe it makes a difference for me. Now? Pssssh, it's old news. 

And how do you know he doesn't give a shit? You don't know that at all. Plenty of people give a shit and still don't feel a need to apologize for something. Again, everything doesn't have to go together. Not apologizing doesn't mean he doesn't care anymore than apologizing means he does. People apologize for stuff every DAY that they're not sorry for...

I'm more of a "show me in your actions" type of person when it comes to an adult. A child can say sorry because a child may not know how to show someone with their actions. Chris Webber is not a child and hasn't been for quite some time. If he's sorry, he'll show it, but saying it changes nothing for me. 

My point was also that those who want "sorry," expect different things...like you want the essay. But some want more, others want less. Some people act like if he just said the word it would be all good --- to those people, I say bullshit. It's not a password to forgivess when you're an adult.

At this point we're 20 years removed, so I really don't care anymore...I'm just trying to see why so many others do.

MGoBrewMom

October 24th, 2014 at 5:11 PM ^

a grown ass man to be a grown ass man. 

There are plenty of people excusing him..."he was young" "he couldn't buy pizza"...I am not ready to begin until he owns it and considers it a mistake.  If it is his opinion that it wasn't a mistake, that's fine.  I just have the opinion that he's a spoiled human being who doesn't have to be accountable because he's "Chris Fucking Webber."

Mr. Yost

October 24th, 2014 at 7:00 PM ^

But a half-assed PR move shouldn't sway you so easily.

If you're going to be mad...be mad. A "grown ass man" saying sorry doesn't change anything.

If you're accountable, you show it in your actions. Especially when you're 41 years old.

I wish it was so easy whenever I messed up..."hey, sorry!" or "my bad!"

No, I'm grown...if I'm really sorry, do something about it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Regardless, this is 20 years ago, like I said, I personally don't give a shit anymore. No apology is going to change anything for me.

Also, why is he a spoiled human being?

Mr. Yost

October 24th, 2014 at 7:00 PM ^

But a half-assed PR move shouldn't sway you so easily.

If you're going to be mad...be mad. A "grown ass man" saying sorry doesn't change anything.

If you're accountable, you show it in your actions. Especially when you're 41 years old.

I wish it was so easy whenever I messed up..."hey, sorry!" or "my bad!"

No, I'm grown...if I'm really sorry, do something about it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Regardless, this is 20 years ago, like I said, I personally don't give a shit anymore. No apology is going to change anything for me.

Also, why is he a spoiled human being?

madmaxweb

October 24th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

No, what recked the program was the booster, not Webber. Webber just took advantage of something that was in front of him. Something, nearly all of us would also take advantage of if presented the situation at that time in our lives. The booster is to blame, NOT Webber or anyone else.

jmdblue

October 24th, 2014 at 3:17 PM ^

and so was the use of the fleet of cars!  There are many differences between the Michigan and OSU fan bases.  Chief among them is when our program is involved in something shameful we feel that shame and spend 20 years flogging ourselves over it.  When OSU's program is involved in something shameful they trot out the disgraced leader to be honored a year after the discovery.  Our way is more painful, but something to be proud of.

jmblue

October 24th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^

What really wrecked the program was neither Webber nor Martin but the hiring of Brian Ellerbe and the general neglect of the basketball program for a number of years following the scandal.  Scandals do not automatically result in a decade of misery.  OSU (in both football and basketball) is prime evidence of that.

jmdblue

October 24th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^

Not everyone cheats.  Not everyone takes advantage of every opportunity to score a few bucks or a little sumpin on the side regardless of morality. Then on top of it whining to Big Ears Albom  that he can't afford a pizza.   Is Martin to blame?  Sure.  Does it excuse Webber's behavior?  Absolutely not.  What excuses Webber's behavior is his publicly owning up to that behavior and showing a little honest remorse (as MGoBrew Mom describes above).