We could have had Urbs

Submitted by HonoluluBlue on August 4th, 2018 at 2:20 PM

It has been well documented on this board and other places that Rick Pitino was a squash game (or some similar rich old man's sport) away from becoming Michigan's Basketball Coach. There was a similar, albeit not as close, situation back in 2004 when Urban Meyer was leading Utah football into uncharted waters. I remember at the time Florida and ND bidding for his services and a certain contract clause continually being mentioned by media. Seems Urban had specifically restructured his Utah contract so that he could leave at any time for one of his three self-proclaimed dream jobs. Those dream jobs? Notre Dame, OSU, and Michigan. Thank goodness Lloyd was not quite ready to hang it up then. Last paragraph from this 2004 espn article mentions the clause. If you think there is a chance in the world that I can embed this link that you don't know squat. 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=1936781

Comments

evenyoubrutus

August 4th, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^

Yep. That's pretty well known. Which is further proof of what a fake human being he is with the crossing out of Ms and calling us that school up north. And yet Buckeye fans are stupid enough to eat it all up. He's nothing but a mercenary who only cares about winning.

OSYoutoo

August 4th, 2018 at 3:07 PM ^

I don’t know about winning but you do have players like Grant Perry, Gibbons and Lewan.   Where is the moral outrage about enabling these players?   The cognitive dissonance as a group is mind boggling.   Every one of those players was guilty and all were allowed to continue playing.   It’s just rape, witness intimidation and sexual assault tho, ammirite?  Maybe, just maybe you could come off your moral high horses just a little.   

Que the hive mind defense of why these felons  deserved to play and how wonderfully their offenses were handled.  

OSYoutoo

August 4th, 2018 at 3:13 PM ^

I think the difference is I’m not saying OSU has handled this well, they haven’t.   I’m saying the outrage at osu is about football, not protecting women.   As a fanbase there was no outrage on this board when Grant rejoined the team.   Maybe there was for the other two, I wasn’t here at the time.   

Autocracy Now

August 4th, 2018 at 3:33 PM ^

Got it. I would suggest you give the comments to this post a read. https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/grant-perry-reinstated 

There were plenty of people not happy to see Perry return after an incident that, while very, very bad, was not at all comparable to a head coach knowing about and ignoring an assistant beating his wife for 10 years.

There's plenty of moral outrage to go around and it doesn't have to be all what aboutism all the time. 

evenyoubrutus

August 4th, 2018 at 4:29 PM ^

But really, at the end of the day, while I don't know every factor that Harbaugh considered when he reinstated Perry he also has shown a track record of coming down on guys. Tuley-Tillman was at a position of far greater need and lack of depth and he was booted immediately before it even came out what he had done. 

WestQuad

August 5th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^

There is a lot of moral outrage from Michigan fans when players step out of line.   The Gibbons-Lewan thing was odd.  There was a lot of outrage on the board and to this day, Michigan fans have a large asterick next to Lewan's name.  When his record contract was announce the other day the first comment was of his misdeeds along with many others.   I forget if there was a legit reason why Lewan wasn't suspended other than Brady Hoke fighting for his job.   The only cool thing about that story is that two other players reported it because they knew it was wrong.  

Frank Clark was dismissed immediately and we needed him.   C'sonte York was immediately dismissed for a sucker punch.  LTT was immediately dismissed.    

Michigan isn't spotless, but over all our record holds up compared to comparable universities.  (See Arb Lover's diary)

Seth

August 4th, 2018 at 5:34 PM ^

I think you have maybe internalized a factually incorrect version of Perry's incident. Perhaps I can turn you around on this by going over all the facts that have been made publicly available.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/08/04/u-ms-gr…

Grant's crime was resisting arrest and assault and battery against a police officer after he and some friends tried to cut in line to get in a bar and pushed a girl out of the way. The case was held up for months in discovery as the defense tried to obtain security camera footage of the incident.

In his guilty plea Perry admitted he slipped out of the grasp of a police officer and tried to run away. He was charged under a Michigan state law that forgives a knucklehead type of crime by young adults after a year of probation (the same law they used to go easy on three MSU players who locked a girl in a bathroom to rape her). He is not allowed to drink or go near a bar and has to do some community service.

Michigan suspended Perry immediately after the incident and kept him suspended from all team activities until they got word that the whole legal process had come to that conclusion. It took 9 months (Oct to July), and Perry was reinstated a few weeks before his sentencing hearing, at which point the hearing was just a formality, so he could work out with the team. The hearing was done before fall camp began so Perry rejoined the team for fall camp. Harbaugh stated publicly at that time that Perry would be off the team if he had another incident or violated his probation.

Please tell me how you think a school should handle that.

OSYoutoo

August 4th, 2018 at 5:47 PM ^

The actual facts you reference are part of a plea bargain, not what actually happened. 

According to police and court documents, Perry was accused of grabbing a woman by the groin and buttocks outside a bar, then fleeing when officers arrived.

He took a plea deal in June, one that saw two counts of fourth-degree sexual misconduct dropped in exchange for misdemeanor assault and battery and felony resisting arrest.

There is a difference between his crimes and the crime he bargained in a plea deal.   Of course acknowledging that it was sexual assault doesn’t fit your narrative.  With your level of denial you should be on 11W, you are just as delusional 

Seth

August 4th, 2018 at 8:56 PM ^

You seem pretty stuck on your version of events and we have enough lawyers on here that I'm sure one of them can explain that a plea deal doesn't work that way. I would ask that you try a more respectful tone. As you pointed out, this isn't 11W.

bluesparkhitsy…

August 4th, 2018 at 10:28 PM ^

By "his crimes," you seem to assume Perry would have been convicted of fourth-degree sexual misconduct absent the plea deal.  You're entitled to that assumption, but you shouldn't also assume that anyone who disagrees is in denial.  

Beyond that, his situation was completely different from the OSU situation -- so much so that your use of it here strikes me as bald whataboutism.  While Perry's drunken grab-ass (which is what witnesses said they saw) was plainly inappropriate and did constitute assault, it wasn't a violent assault and was of a type that (unfortunately) is extremely common.  In that situation, I think a coach can reasonably consider whether a punishment short of throwing him off the team might be best for all concerned.  

You seem to equate proportionality with hypocrisy, at least where Michigan is concerned.  While we all should look inward to make sure we aren't guilty of tribalism when it comes to things like this, I don't think this example comes close to proving what you are accusing us of.

 

Hard-Baughlls

August 4th, 2018 at 8:40 PM ^

A player is responsible for his own actions as an 18-22 year old college student - and in the case of a captain or team leader - can be looked upon to be a good example for others on the team.

A college head football coach at a Div1 powerhouse, who happens to be considered one of the best of his generation, is expected to set an example for the 100+ players and coaches in his program.

This isn't even apples and oranges....it's apple juice and an orange tree.  If you can't see the difference between the ethical failures of a head coach (who has a history of enabling / looking the other way - see UF), not to mention a superstar head coach at a blue blood program, and the moral /behavioral failures of respective college players on a given team - then you have lost any sense of proportional expectations, or you are just a blind Urban apologist.  He indeed wins a lot of games...congrats on that.  He also has a long history of behaving like a scumbag.

s1105615

August 4th, 2018 at 3:46 PM ^

Lewan was a jerk, but I don’t recall any criminal accusations for him.  Perry has gone through the wringer and has been punished accordingly.  Gibbons is probably the diciest case, as he was accused and suspended.  He wasn’t allowed back on the team or to play while the process played out.  Seems pretty night/day to me on how Zach Smith’s accusations have been handled by OSU and Urban Meyer compared to UM and Brady Hoke..

OSYoutoo

August 4th, 2018 at 4:02 PM ^

https://deadspin.com/former-michigan-kicker-expelled-for-sexual-misconduct-1511488287

And here 

http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/university-of-michigan/the-cover-up-of-the-arrest-of-university-of-michigan-football-player-brendan-gibbons-for-rape

He was allowed back on the team.   The process didn’t play out until the Feds investigated after both of them had used all of their eligibility.  

jmblue

August 4th, 2018 at 4:24 PM ^

Enough with the red-herring arguments about players at other schools.

It seems quite likely that Urban Meyer turned a blind eye to a decade of domestic abuse by one of his assistants.  Are you OK with that?  That's the question you should be asking yourself, not "Did a Michigan guy ever get in trouble before?"

 

 

Mr Miggle

August 4th, 2018 at 5:19 PM ^

It's a terrible point.

Meyer is fair game for heavy criticism now. It really doesn't matter that Michigan has had its own issues in the past. And you are definitely misrepresenting the treatment the Michigan issues received on this board.

OSU fans throwing stones about old issues while in the midst of a scandal is a really bad look. It's merely a crude deflection or whataboutism in today's jargon.

If Jim Harbaugh is accused of murder tomorrow, then have at it. Having issues at your own school shouldn't keep you from weighing in on what would be a moderately hot topic.

OSYoutoo

August 4th, 2018 at 5:28 PM ^

We can agree to disagree on some points.  Meyer is fair game, it’s the self righteousness that is hard to swallow.

If you think I’m misrepresenting the treatment of your own issues, go back and read the thread that was posted on the issue.  It was equal parts blaming the victim/Sparty conspiracy because it happened in EL and nothing to see here folks.   It was literally as tone deaf and in denial as what you’ll read on 11W about Meyer.  Hell, even in this thread is was minimized to simply grabbing her butt.    

OSYoutoo

August 4th, 2018 at 5:52 PM ^

Nah, this is what he actually did. 

According to police and court documents, Perry was accused of grabbing a woman by the groin and buttocks outside a bar, then fleeing when officers arrived.

He took a plea deal in June, one that saw two counts of fourth-degree sexual misconduct dropped in exchange for misdemeanor assault and battery and felony resisting arrest.

HAIL-YEA

August 4th, 2018 at 8:45 PM ^

You're a fucking idiot. Lewan never threatened her to her face, she found out what he said from his teammates. You have been wrong about everything you posted so far.

But even if you were right, what does any of that have to do with Urban Meyer possibly covering up for smith who was abusing his wife? 

tspoon

August 4th, 2018 at 2:51 PM ^

Much like we tend to assume certain degenerate former recruits (cf: McDowell, M.) might have had a different life story had they ended up in AA rather than various other lower-moral environments, I have this sneaking suspicion that coaching at Michigan would have required Urban to move further away from his sordid side.

While we're all rightly reveling in him getting called to the carpet for his crap (and I would bet most of us on this board view this situation as a pattern indicator moreso than an isolated 'whoops'), let's also be honest: if we're trying to paint Urban into the same cast of characters as the Bobby Petrinos of the world, we're probably off on that.  The guy isn't utterly evil.  But his uber-competitive nature leans into that world when he has flimsy guardrails, and probably far too easily.

The important distinction in thinking about "what if" is that Michigan's culture is far less driven by the football program than OSU's is.  We can all debate how much that translates into Ws and Ls. etc., but that is not my point.  From having watched the culture on Michigan's campus for a long time, I think there *is* something different in the water. If you hold to the belief that it is possible for individual character to be refined and redeemed in the right circumstances, that difference might have been a real positive for Urban.

tspoon

August 4th, 2018 at 3:46 PM ^

Fair enough. My "what if" was thinking back to when he was leaving Utah and got that out clause the OP was referencing.

But no doubt about it now ... his last 15 years has plenty of dirt.  I'd still say even now he isn't Petrino-bad ... but I'd agree with your sentiment more broadly.  Too late to teach an old dog new tricks.

Mr Miggle

August 4th, 2018 at 4:30 PM ^

Florida was one of the few SEC schools that wouldn't oversign  Meyer complained about that putting him at a competitive disadvantage. He's known as a control freak, but was able to abide by their rules. 

Would he also let a school overrule his judgment about taking kids with character concerns? Or if they had different ideas about discipline? Would he accept getting recruits frequently rejected by admissions? At least some of those things would have happened if he had come here instead of UF.

We'll never know, but it's easy to speculate his time here would have been contentious. OSU was  the type of situation he wanted. It wasn't just his ties to Ohio. It looks to me that OSU has changed since his arrival. Otherwise Meyer's job would not be in jeopardy.

DonAZ

August 4th, 2018 at 2:43 PM ^

Honest question -- did Meyer have player issues at Utah?  I know ... Utah ... but trouble happens everywhere if it's allowed to happen.

I ask because I'm wondering if Meyer allows himself to be formed by the environment he's in.  The Florida teams, including UF, have never been squeaky-clean programs.  Neither is OSU.

I wonder if Meyer had come to Michigan in 2004 whether the better ethical climate at Michigan would have shaped Meyer, or if Meyer would have tried to shape the program?

Mr Miggle

August 4th, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^

Meyer was only at Utah for two seasons. Same with Bowling Green. I don't believe he had many problems, but he mishandled a rape accusation made against a player. A player who wasn't ultimately charged. It wasn't enough time to stock the teams with his own recruits and perhaps not enough time for team discipline to unravel. It took some time for that to happen at Florida.