Was the OL horrendous tonight or merely not as good as the DL?

Haven't even played a game yet, and we're already calling for firings in the coaching staff.

Simple fact: Defenses are always ahead of offenses in camp. Period. That's just how it goes. This was a scrimmage. There's two weeks to go. Step off the ledge, y'all.

This might be the best collective D-line we've had in years IF the hype and current play leads into the season. Our o-line just isn't good right now. Not going to put a whole lot into last night but it was disappointing to see that straight up domination.

It's practice.  You practice what you're BAD at, and it never looks good.  Have you ever heard musicians rehearse?  It's like hearing a broken record as they keep repping the tough parts.

1) Our DL is probably decent; our OL's ceiling this year is below average.  There's no way the OL was going to look good.

2) Defenses are typically ahead of offenses before the season.  So even if the OL was on par with the more experience defense (it's not), they were going to be outplayed.

3) Once again they used a lot of TE sets they probably aren't going to rely on in games.  The reason for this is obvious; the TEs need the reps.  The screens they'll probably be running constantly at the start of the season can be repped in pieces (route-running, blocking in space, passing drills, etc.).  It's not ideal, but scrimmages are far more valuable to linemen.

So I was expecting our OL to look like a trainwreck.  That's the point.  If the defense doesn't give both barrels every play, the OL will never get good.  So they'll continue to look like shit until they get it together.

The real question is are they good enough.  All they've been doing is hitting each other so is the crappy OL holding back the DL, or is the DL above-average and pushing the OL to decent?  Hard to tell until they start playing games.  But there was no question going in that the DL was going to make the OL look bad.

I want to preface this by saying I've been a Michigan fan since I was 5 years old and I'm 34. Unlike most I've had a lot of experiences around this program that most do not get. I've seen a ton of great players up close and heard opinions from people who matter over the years. So this is my honest take. I also left around 9:40 so didn't see everything. First oline- Oh Boy! I'll try to be positive. And let me say that all this it was 1 vs 2 is a little misleading. The defense had many guys out there that will play and/or start going against our 1st and 2nd oline. Cole is our best olineman by a landslide. He will make his mistakes but overall he is going to be a good one . Miller- I just can't believe he continues to play after game 1. Everyone is all over Magnum but he isn't wrong on the kid. Kid just doesn't have it Braden- I do think this kid will continue to get better. He did some good things out there and he did some not so good thing(Great observation I know) everyone thinks he didn't start last year because of play but it had nothing to do with football why you never heard about him. The interior, once again is a mess. You have to hope Kalis is not only healthy but can has gotten better. If he hasn't on both accounts good god we are trouble Some back ups. Dawson isn't close ready. Pray no one gets hurt because it looks like he comes in. LTT- is going to get someone killed. I would never give up on someone in his 2nd year but I'm still trying to figure out how he got an offer to play at Michigan. He just isn't very good Kugler- Will be fine but just isn't ready yet. Remember I believe he had shoulder surgery last year. I thought after last year Funk needed to go. You just don't have those results on the line like we did and expect someone to keep his job. I'm not going to say fire him right now but it sure is trending that way if he can't get it together. We joked last night that Cole is our best lineman because Funk hasn't had enough time to screw him up. I'm also going to question our recruiting a little because JBB looks like LTT part 2 RB- now let me say it's hard to evaluate our RB with our oline. What I looked for was the ability to make people miss and break tackles. With that said IMO Drake Johnson is our best back. He moves forward after first contact, has some shiftiness to him, and falls forward. Derrick Green- Hoke claims he is the #1 back. Wonder if he feels that way after breaking down film late last night? Kid goes down at first contact 90% of the time. I've said it before his leg strength is not there. Smith- who I thought would start. He breaks tackles a little better then Green but still not where it needs to be. Hayes- suppose to be able to catch out of the backfield. Dropped only opportunity I saw. TE/WR-first Shallman needs to play. I know he was with the 3s but that kid is a football player. Just loves contact! AJ Williams- I'm really curious to what Nuss is thinking/setting up splitting AJ out all the way to the sideline. As of now I don't understand why this was done. In the end we need Butt back in the worst way. WR- Love Freddy Canteen! Kid just make plays. Darbouh is a solid 3rd option. Tough and big and physical. While I was there Northfleet was non existent. Mo Ways went against a guy who will be bagging groceries in a week(Major League 2) but Mo Ways was always my favorite WR recruit. I think kid has a bright future. D''Mario Jones gets lost too much but talent is there. More later

You all understand this was our Defense playing our Offense, right? Something tells me they're familiar with the formations and the plays that come from them.

I think the Defense always has a bit of an advantage in scrimmages.

Devin was running for his life and the running game looks like a continuation of last year though the backs ran hard. Every time Drake took the hand off I was expecting good things; there just weren't many holes.

Devin looks like he's still suffering from the same problems. He ran back out of the pocket while heaving a pass out of bounds and threw a bad pick to Blake that was intended for Funchess.

As much as I hate to say it, Shane looked more poised and accurate but this is a small sample size and they were not playing the same competition. Was really hoping Devin would take the next step but I think We'll be subjected to the same dizzying highs and lows of last year.

the consensus is that the Oline is way behind the defense at this point, and the lack of progress is going to severely impact the running game and lead to an imbalanced offense throughout the season. The general feeling is, Michigan will have to be a passing team by necessity, but using the short passing game primarily. This, of course, ostensibly negates the very identity the offense was hoping to create as a tough, running team that could grind out wins and explode as a pssing attack when needed, sort of the identity that Lloyd Carr's Michigan teams always fashioned.  

At worst, others contend the Oline is an unmitigated disaster with little development from a year ago with the Oline coach completely to blame, but most are willing to reserve judgment until season's end.

A few think Funk should be gone now or shortly, and that he even has made certain poor recruiting choices so that the players counted on to develop will not be helpful in the future. Some acknowledge that what Hoke has already indicated a freshman left tackle, who is always responsible for protecting Gardner's blindside, is Michigan's best prospect for that position. As  Brian might say, Wow. I don't know, man"

Those outside the doom and gloom perspective, think that blowing up over an inter squad scrimmage with rotating players competing for jobs in a camp setting in mid-August shouldn't be regarded as the final test for resolving Oline review and assessment that there is time for the line to gel before a real test in Souh Bend in a month. 

All of these thoughts and observations are based on limited information, knowledge and understanding of what was viewed at this public scrimmage, albeit up close and personal. 

I guess I come away thinking based on this that the Oline is limited until proven otherwise and this team will have problems scoring on long drives. But we really don't know, until we see things transpire in a game. I think, however, that general consensus may not sync with actual performance until performance can be measured by actual data that matters. 

At this point, put me in the camp of seeking greater improvement after the first two games before it's time totally go off the deep end into full scale panic and worry. 

I apologize if someone already made this point, but with respect to the relative inexperience of the offensive line, here's something from Wikipedia about the 1997 offensive line: 

The offensive line was another uncertainty for the 1997 team. Three linemen from the 1996 team had been selected in the 1997 NFL Draft: center Rod Payne (3rd round, 76th overall), offensive guard Damon Denson (4th round, 97th overall) and defensive tackleWilliam Carr (7th round, 217the overall).^[14] As a result, Michigan began the season with only one offensive lineman, offensive tackle Jon Jansen, who had started a game.^[15] Jansen, a junior, had 25 consecutive starts entering the season. The offensive line was further weakened when left tackle, Jeff Backus, suffered a ruptured appendix. In spring practice, offensive line coach Terry Malone made a plea for help during a staff meeting. was searching for talent to fill in on the line.^[16] To fill the holes on the offensive line, two defensive linemen, Steve Hutchinson and Chris Ziemann were moved to the offensive line.

That team rushed for 4.0 yards a carry against some tough teams (seven of them ranked). 

So how was that team able to accomplish that?  In other words, how did the '97 team overcome an inexperienced offensive line?   

 

In the past, when our OL would go up against our DL, we'd see a bunch of dudes hugging each other with no push in either direction. Then they'd both end up as mediocre. Maybe the silver lining here is that while our OL will be mediocre for the 3rd year in a row, our DL might actually be something more than gap fillers for the first time in awhile.

I still have  big concerns aout our D line.  Weren't we last in the conference in sacks?  What makes people think we're going to go from the worst pass rush in te league to the top 3rd of the league?  Clark is a good player, Henry showed some flashes, Taco could be a good player this year, none strike me as All B1G type players this year.  I also think we are thin at DT with Pipkins still being brought back slowly.  Will Pipkins even play more than a few snaps a game at this point if at all?

Again, I like our talent at D line, but just have yet to see a doiminant D line or something close to it.  Which is what makes this tough.  We are going to play some of the better D lines in the nation this year, ones that are clearly much better than ours, how is our O line going to look versus Michigan State or Ohio?  Those are probably two of the top 5 D lines in the country, we're going to need to use a lot of Max protection to keep Gardner from getting killed.  And without any run blocking again, defenses are just going to pin their ears back and come after our QB.

The defense is going to be good, no doubt.  I suppose after losing both Lewan and Schofield we should have expected this from the O line.  I hope I am wrong and we do have a totally dominant D line, that would be great for the development of the O line, to play against a top unit in practice every week. 

Absolutely love Mason Cole and think he could be one of the greats here, but considering the guys on the roster, it's alarming that a true freshman could come in and not only get playing time, but start at left tackle and frankly look like our best O lineman.  That's a scary thought.

A better question would be did the OL look better than the spring scrimmage?

They've only been in camp for 12 days so there's a ways to go.  The defense should look better than the offense at this point.

I do hope the OL can get it together, but I can't say I was pleased when Funk was spared. I know Brian seems to have confidence in his abilities, but I can't shake the bad feelings I get from the line regressing year after year, prospect after prospect seeming to not pan out and almost get dropped by the wayside, and that it seems the only competent OL we've had going into Hoke's 4th year were the ones who got their start under the previous staff...

I'm not real surprised by the reactions.  Our D line is supposed to be one of our strengths and our O line is supposed to be our weakest area.  So, expecting that match up to go anywhere other than in favor of our D line....  Well lets just say I wasn't expecting much.  However, it does kind of confirm what most of us fear - the O line will struggle this year most of the time (especially in B1G play).  

At some point you would expect forward progress from some of the players, and I'm not ready to hang Funk out to dry just yet.  I'm hoping the unit comes together and begins to gel within the next week or two.  I'm hoping Nuss can call a game better than Borges and he will put the players and team in a position to win (i.e. no studid ass I-Form PA pass on 3rd and long).

I know this doesn't fit the pattern of doom/ gloom here, but I read a few reports that the Oline improved as the scrimmage went on. While they seem not have gotten awesome in that short timeframe, isn't "improvement" what you want to see out of a new/young line?